She says she wants me back. While she lives with my replacement.

[Penumbra66]

Wow.

I broke up with my ex almost exactly one year ago. She began having an affair,  including break ups and make ups while she switched back and forth between us for six weeks. She dumped me when I realized she was still cheating on me after our last reconciliation. We communicated three times post break up, and she insisted that she loved me, and would love me forever. I went no contact in October of last year,because it was nothing but chaos, confusion, and destruction.  After all the lies and abandonment, I blocked her everywhere.

Two weeks ago, she contacted me on OkCupid, where we first met, because she can't get through anywhere else. She sent a long apology for what she had done, insisting that I was the "love of her life"  and that she could've been happy with me forever.  She also told me that I was a kind and beautiful person.

One week later, I decided to respond.

Almost immediately, she started  asking me if there's anything she could do to "help"  me. so it's obvious that it's more than a simple apology, that she wants me back in her life somehow. She told me that she pines for me, daydreams about me, and has sexual fantasies about me.  I told her it seems like she wants a reconciliation, and she said she did.

This infuriated me, because I could tell by the erratic nature of her messages that she must be contacting me secretly when she can. When I asked her if she was with someone, she replied that she was, which made me literally ill. I asked her why she would contact me if she was with someone else and tell me she wanted to reconcile, and she responded that she didn't mean reconcile now, but  in the future.

She also insisted that this reconciliation was not a question of if, but when. She said that she had wanted this almost since the day we broke up, and that she broke up with me only because she was afraid she would be stuck with me forever (she is much younger than I am). She said she was extremely fearful to leave me, and used the first excuse she had – – my replacement – – to get away.  She insists she never felt the same way about the replacement as she did me, and now with more experience, it only reinforces her desire for me.

Her:

I onlysaid "if" in reference to whether or not that's what we both want. It's not certain that we will both want that when we have the chance. I know that right now, and pretty much since we broke up, I have pined for you and hoped and hoped for the chance to make up. I am being sincere with you here. I'm not trying to keep you as an option. I'm not asking you to wait for me. I just wanted to be really clear about my thoughts, feelings, and intentions since you demanded an explanation. I swear I was telling the truth when I said I still mastur**** to you, have cried for you, and think about you and what we went through constantly. I would not bother you with these messages just to keep you on the back burner as an option. I absolutely do not want you to hurt for me ever again.

You want to know if I would consider reconcilling at some point, IF you should become available.

Not if, when.

Honestly, I don't know what is going to happen with the person I'm with now. We do live together and he would likely struggle economically without me at this time so it's a little complicated.

I have already told you what I want. I don't know what more I can say. I don't know what kind of answer you are looking for.

Penumbra, I am really sincerely sorry that I put you through that. And I'm sorry if you feel that is what I am doing now. I wasn't planning on telling you I still have feelings and that I want to get back together, that I want a do over, but when you asked for an explanation, the truth came out. Those are my true feelings. I'm not trying to leave you in a state of uncertainty or confusion. I don't want you to wait for me. I know it may seem abstract, but what's the alternative, to dump my boyfriend right away so I can prove it to you? I don't think that's right. Maybe I should have held off on trying to initiate a conversation with you, until I was completely free and able to start reconciling things with you. I didn't intend for my true desires to come out and I did not mean to hurt you. I just wanted to let you know I'm sorry and that I still care. I am really sorry if this is hurting you, I didn't mean for it to. Maybe you can tell me how you want things to go? So I know exactly how you need me to interact with you? Please don't be hurt. I love you.

This is so unbelievable to me, because I feel like I'm back where I was, one year ago. The difference is, now she has "something to compare [our relationship] to." And yet, how could she be expected to dump her current boyfriend? That's what she did to me, which she acknowledges as the worst behavior of her life.

It seems she really only wants me to be there after her relationship "ends naturally."

This is such a terrible position to be in, because she seemed so incredibly sorry for what she had done, and tried to explain why without minimizing her horrible behavior. She also tries to convince me how much our relationship meant to her, and how much she desires to be with me again. But she doesn't tell me she is with someone until pressed, which I find exceptionally dishonest. The funny thing is, the reason I maintained no contact was because I had a feeling she would do exactly she is with someone until pressed, which I find exceptionally dishonest. The funny thing is, the reason I maintained no contact was because I had a feeling she would do exactly as she is doing now, try to sucker me into something, while not being available.

There was a little nuttiness in our relationship, and sometimes a lot of drama, but before her affair, she was never cruel. I would describe her as a quiet borderline, a waif.  She started doing drugs daily with the replacement, and has an addict, lost  more than two years of sobriety.  With daily drug and alcohol use she became a different person. Or maybe it's the chameleon aspect of BPD.

She claims to be sober now, and has gotten a "real job" after graduating from college, and has been working for 10 months. Everything she wrote sounded genuine, and was starting to get my hopes up, but I knew there was more to her story. And there is.

I would have definitely considered giving her a second chance, but even considering that now would leave me hanging indefinitely. She's definitely being manipulative here, but I tend to believe that she wants to be with me. Her timing was absolutely terrible, however, and I don't really think she has any clear desire to break up with her boyfriend. Push, pull. Repeat.

One option is to tell her to get on with her life, and never contact me again. The other option is to remain LC, which I think would have been healthier, because I think it would help both of us detach, without triggering my abandonment fears. No contact leaves me in fear that I will never communicate with her again in my life, which is actually a greater fear than never being in a relationship with her again.  But then she starts putting out feelers to try and hook me in. I really don't want the idea of "someday" running around in the back of my head.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Invictus01]

"Honestly, I don't know what is going to happen with the person I'm with now. We do live together and he would likely struggle economically without me at this time so it's a little complicated." Tell her that she is spending a little too much time communicating with you and should instead use it to make more money so that she can support the loser she is with right now.

There is nothing to discuss here. If she meant any of this, it would be a very easy choice. They aren't married, they don't have any kids together, nothing holds them together. She is free to go, but she doesn't. She is with him while sending you 25 pages of emotional blackmail. What is there to talk about?

[rotiroti]

Wow indeed.

No contact leaves me in fear that I will never communicate with her again in my life, which is actually a greater fear than never being in a relationship with her again.

Could you elaborate?

[jhkbuzz]

Wow, what a story!

I tend to believe that she wants to be with me.

The first thing I thought after I read that ^ is, "For how long?"



Be careful.

[UserName69]

Do you see now why NC is important? I can relate to this because once my exBPD ended it, we still had contact with each other and before I knew it she wanted me back. They keep contact just to control you or use you as a back up. The best thing to do is go no contact, block her from everywhere. Tell yourself this RS doesn't work. And why would you even stay with someone who'll cheat on you within an eye blink?

Don't tell her anything, block her she'll get the message. Because she's going to contact you in the future again and she's going to mess up your process of healing. My exBPD still had contact with her exBF, whenever we had a fight she contacted him. Why would any healthy person do that?

I would say give up on her and move on. It's going to be a hard thing to do but there are no other options available. At this moment you need to think about yourself instead of her.

No contact leaves me in fear that I will never communicate with her again in my life, which is actually a greater fear than never being in a relationship with her again.

Believe me on this one, you don't need her. She isn't the only girl on this planet, one day you'll be over her and you'll have a new partner than you're going to realize how bad the entire rs/and your exBPD are. I have blocked my exBPD from my life, I got rid of everything that reminded me of her and I moved on. It's better to have no rs than having a rs with a pwBPD. In my opinion all the drama and stress isn't worth it. You can get a better partner!

But then she starts putting out feelers to try and hook me in.

Don't fall for it. It's the game she's playing. My exBPD was the same, the used to play with my feelings. I bet your exBPD is trying to manipulate you. Thats why I said the best thing is to block her from your life and focus on yourself.

I really don't want the idea of "someday" running around in the back of my head.

Once you accept everything it's going to be different. That's the first step I think, you need to accept that you'll never be with her. I had a rs with a pwBPD for 6 months we had 14 BU's. And every time when we got back to each other she was even worse. A lot of people share this experience.

If you want to move on (I really suggest it) here are a couple things you really should do:

1. Accept the fact it's over, she's ill and you can't help her.

2. Get rid of everything that reminds you of her, emails, photo's, gifts etc. Get rid of them, they will only make you miss her.

3. Think about all the bad things she did like cheating, lying to you etc. You can even write them down. Every time when you miss her think about these things.

4. Focus on yourself. You need to keep your self busy so you'll forget about her. Go out with friends, have fun, start new hobbies, you're single now and you don't need your exBPD to enjoy life.

Mine wanted to stay friends with me. Yeah I know why so she could jump back to me whenever she liked. The first time I accepted this the second time when she made this offer I decided to move on. She kept stalking me on FB and at one point I told her I'm going to date an another girl. She freaked out and blocked me from FB. The only reason why she freaked out is because she lost control over me, I basically told her to f*ck off and I don't need her. Don't let your exBPD control you. Stay strong.

[Panda39]

Why would you want to go back to someone that cheated on you?  That for me is an absolute deal breaker (and heart breaker).  For me the trust is blown and without trust there is no relationship as far as I'm concerned.

Something to think about is why do you think that you only deserve a relationship with a mentally ill person, that lies to you? What is it that you would get out of this relationship? Why look backwards when you could be moving forward towards a healthy relationship with someone who genuinely cares for you and is capable of showing you. 

You deserve someone that treats you better than your ex.

[1989]

 It's obvious she is back to idealizing you again.  Her comment "I could have been happy forever with you" is just so glaring.  She daydreams about you, fantasizes, etc--you are her escape right now.  That's where she wants you to be... .in fantasyland, but she needs to know you still love her or the "escape" doesn't work.

I've followed your story and we're the same age.  My exwBPD strung me along by saying "someday" and insisted I was the love of his life and he wanted to grow old with me.  I finally got up the courage to ask "okay, when?".  40 years was his answer.  Basically, he didn't want to die alone and if he didn't find someone else then he wanted to spend his last years/months with me. 

Pay attention to her actions and not her words.  Actions don't lie.  She's with him.  Her first concern is him (after herself).  Penumbra, I've been where you are and it appears you are ARE a backup.  My history was loong with my exBPD, and nothing ever changed.  He never wanted back together, no matter how many times he said "someday".  My story started with him in 1988 and finally ended in 2012, because as I told him, I have a life to live. 

She's really just asking you to keep her side of the bed (your heart) warm in case she ever needs to come back.

It hurt like h-ll at first knowing I would never speak to my ex again, but I knew it was the healthiest thing for me because I was "bonded" to him for life and just hearing his voice brought all those feelings back.   I can't be casual with him, so being in touch couldn't work for me.

[SummerStorm]

One of the most important things to remember with BPD is that there is always someone else.   pwBPD can't sustain a healthy long-term relationship, so they are always looking ahead.  When mine was going back and forth between leaving her boyfriend for me or staying with him, it always frustrated me that she couldn't just leave him.  She was content to be with him while she waited for me to move out of my parents' house.  Ultimately, at the end of the day, her main concern is having a place to live.  A house is too permanent and suffocating though, so two days after we looked at a house, she decided once and for all to stay with him. If I had agreed to move into an apartment with her back in March, she would have left him at the drop of a hat.  She needed a place to live soon, she kept bugging the two people closest to her, until one of us caved. She was willing to drop me completely after he agreed to let her move in permanently (it was temporary at first).  She started dating him right after she broke up with her last boyfriend.  She went on Tinder, matched with him the first day she had it,  and that was it.

Normal people don't start a relationship and focus on when it will end, but pwBPD do because, even if they aren't that self-aware, they do realize that they have rocky and often short-lived relationships.  And they always are looking for the next person.  That's what yours is doing.  And once they have that person lined up, they keep him or her around.  Once,  when I was down about not being able to be with her,  she said,  "You might have all of me someday."  Another time,  she told me that it wasn't our time yet.  Both of these statements implied that it would be our time eventually.  Who says that when they are in the middle of a relationship with someone else?

And right when I would tell her that I was getting over her and accepting that she might marry her boyfriend,  she would text me in the middle of the night and tell me she was fantasizing about me.  Right when I started pulling away,  she would lure me back in.  This went right up until she tried to commit suicide and her boyfriend was there and called the ambulance.  After that,  we stopped seeing each ofher every day because the school year ended (we are teachers), he took off work a few days to be with her,  and she began to idealize him again.  I wasn't around,  she has no object constancy,  and so I was dropped.  Now,  they are moving in two months,  and he's talking about marrying her (they've only been together six months,  and she has no job,  but whatever).

[myself]

How much does trust play into the kind of relationship you'd like?

With a history of lying, how truthful do you think she's being now?

How many of the following apply to what you're going through?

The Ten Beliefs That Keep Us Stuck:

1) Belief that this person holds the key to your happiness

2) Belief that your BPD partner feels the same way that you feel

3) Belief that the relationship problems are caused by some circumstance or by you

4) Belief that love can prevail

5) Belief that things will return to "the way they used to be"

6) Clinging to the words that were said

7) Belief that if you say it louder you will be heard

8) Belief that absence makes the heart grow fonder

9) Belief that you need to stay to help them.

10) Belief that they have seen the light

[apollotech]

Hi Penumbra,

How did you ex handle engulfment during the relationship? Did her engulfment issues ultimately lead to the relationship's termination?

I personally wouldn't put a lot of stock into what she is saying right now because that's the voice of idealization speaking; she is in pull mode. My questions/thoughts would be focused on what's going to happen when she goes into push mode, when you're devalued.

To me, she is already presenting you with a huge red flag. She is going behind the other guy's back trying to reconcile with you. Hmmm, so, she cheated on you, and now, basically, she is cheating on him (betraying his trust). Has anything changed here?

[Mr.Downtrodden]

My ex could have written those e-mails word for word.

She exudes charm on-line and even moreso in person.  She's got male orbiters at her beck and call, 24/7.

Seems ladies with BPD traits are all the same - as a male non, you are simply an object for her, actions good or bad dictated by her own needs at that moment.  how long does the moment last?  It is always up to her to decide -

always judge a BPD partner by actions.

Manipulation, lies and being emotionally discarded at will is not a r/s.

Be strong and choose NO MORE.

[Pretty Woman]

You will notice... .everything she says is all about HER. She is building you up with compliments and telling you that you are "the love of her life" to hook you... .

but then she is worried about the person she is with and his well being, ability to afford to live alone. She can't tell you WHEN this will happen. And as we know BPD's change their minds within moments.

Give me a break! Sorry, today I am a bit stronger than I was yesterday.

All this is is classic triangulation. For all you know there are probably others she is working on.  She NEEDS to be wanted. This has nothing to do with being the "love of her life". She wants you to be constantly pining for her. That's where she gets her "value". What kills me is men die over these b___es. You hear all these stories about people comitting suicide from this abuse. I WAS THERE A YEAR AGO. I can relate. I lay in my bed for two weeks over Christmas wanting to die. I didn't shower I didn't answer the phone, the door. My family threatened to send the police over for a wellness check if I didn't respond.  I spent those two weeks in bed with an engagement ring I never gave. Staring at it. Crying. Almost mailed a 8K ring to her---which I am so glad that did not happen! No one is worth killing yourself over. I am sure if I was run over by a car today mine would care less.

That is NOT normal. That is a person with bad character who is emotionally retarded. That is not a compassionate, loving person who gives a rats-a about you.

Mine left me twice for the "love of her life" her "best friend". She left me this time stating I am her "best friend". Oh boy, I can't wait til she attempts a return. It is OH-VA this time!

Baloney. All of these words are baloney. Their words NEVER match their actions.

If you truly were the love of her life she would never ever had pulled all this crap on you my friend. When we love someone we don't do this stuff... .unless we are seven and that isn't love, that's school crush stuff.

I'm sorry if I am sounding harsh but I've been through three recycles (three too many). I have been on this site off and on over three years. I am going to be 40 this year. I wasted three childbearing years and am now single and starting over.  I am FINALLY learning I am better than this... .I am worth so much more. I HAVE the capacity to be a best friend, wife, lover, mother... .

she NEVER will have the capacity to experience that.

There are good people out there that won't give you this grief.  I promise you that. And I am not BPD so my promises are real.


You need to be cautious. I know I still crave mine contacting me for the validation... .but I know how it will end... .each time more painful. I don't want to see another person suffer like that. Please take my words as tough love and not criticism. You are doing the right thing posting here.

PW

[SummerStorm]

She NEEDS to be wanted. This has nothing to do with being the "love of her life". She wants you to be constantly pining for her. That's where she gets her "value".

So very true.  The first time I was intimate with mine, she looked at me and asked, "Why do you love me?"  Later, she kept asking, "How sexy am I?"  For her, sex was always about making me feel good, so that I would keep wanting her.  So really, it was about her gaining control over me. 

My whole mess of a situation started with her being home alone over Easter break and texting me to ask me if I ever thought about kissing her.  Later, she made up some BS question about which of our co-workers I would have sex with.  I didn't want to answer, and at one point, I even asked, "Are you just trying to get me to say you?"  She replied that she wasn't, but I saw through that. 

After she realized that I was attracted to her, she started sending me pictures of herself.  Once, she sent me a picture of the huge tattoo she has on her ribcage.  I said it was pretty.  She replied, "It's sexy, isn't it?"  It was always about me confirming that she was beautiful/sexy/desirable.  Once, she went shopping and sent me pictures of her wearing everything she tried on, including a bikini.  Another time, in the middle of the work day, when she was on vacation, she sent me a picture of her in her underwear.  Once, she sent me a picture, with the caption, "My hair looks perfect right now" and then posted it to Facebook, looking for more compliments.  She only posts photos on Facebook, never messages, and most of those photos are selfies.  It's her way of saying, "Look at me and tell me how attractive I am."  I think this is one of the main reasons why she changes her appearance so often.  Each change in hair style, hair color, or makeup is a chance for her to get a response from people.

[Penumbra66]

"Honestly, I don't know what is going to happen with the person I'm with now. We do live together and he would likely struggle economically without me at this time so it's a little complicated." Tell her that she is spending a little too much time communicating with you and should instead use it to make more money so that she can support the loser she is with right now.

There is nothing to discuss here. If she meant any of this, it would be a very easy choice. They aren't married, they don't have any kids together, nothing holds them together. She is free to go, but she doesn't. She is with him while sending you 25 pages of emotional blackmail. What is there to talk about?

Yes. This. And that's what angers me about her contact.

[Infern0]

Yeah bro it has to be said,  judge actions not words. If she really meant it she'd leave. Mine played a similar game with me which lasted around 6 months of "I'm going to leave him" But there was always a reason she couldn't do it yet.  Eventually she did leave and we recycled but in my honest opinion it was more down to her relationship collapsing and her needing me than her loving me more which is what she said.

Whatever the situation don't put your life on hold for her.  If she's true and she needs time then OK but don't wait around. The worst thing you can do with these people is wait on them and let them take you for granted.

[Penumbra66]

Wow indeed.

No contact leaves me in fear that I will never communicate with her again in my life, which is actually a greater fear than never being in a relationship with her again.

Could you elaborate?

Never Again,

Until the recent messages, I have broken NC two (maybe three) times. The last time was in October of last year. When she managed to sneak a message through the one unblocked email and three times through the dating site we met on, I felt total panic. It's like I knew that eventually she would somehow "get" me, and that thought alone created a lot of anxiety. But the other thing that ate away at me was the thought of NEVER communicating with her again.

I read a recent post about NC vs LC, and the post made some good points about LC helping both partners to detach. In most of my past relationships, we keept in touch after breaking up, gradually communicating less and less over time. For me, this was a helpful process that eased my pain. Of course with a pwBPD, we often have no choice, which is what I felt I needed to do after all the conflicting messages. My ex was rarely nasty, even after the breakup, but was behaving so illogically, her words and actions completely at odds. I was left a confused mess with all the chaos.

She had many nice things to say about me, and included an explaination of her feelings of emeshment and engulfment. I feel now like I may have mattered to her, although I better understand her recent tendency to idealize me (while devaluing my replacement). Her current behavior, however, still seems like that of a person with a personality disorder, which these messages help me place what she's saying in context of BPD.

The plus side of all this has been that I can clearly see this has been all about her, and that I had very little to do with the destruction of our relationship. I also no longer feel a need to compare myself to my replacement, or at least far less of a need. She sent a handful of messages over several days, and I've become less sensitized to her profile pic (and the thought of receiving messages from her). At the moment I feel less fearful of her. I beleive that's a good thing.

The whole situation still strikes me as sad, but I feel like my long depression has lifted somewhat in the last few days. I am not yet out of the woods, but I will accept any chance to improve my mood after a long, dark year. Let's hope it lasts.

[rotiroti]

I feel now like I may have mattered to her

Of course you did, you shouldn't discredit the love. It was honest and sincere at the time, but like you said it's all about them.

There's an article written from a pwBPD in remission that talks about love from their perspective: https://bpdfamily.com/content/my-definition-love-i-have-borderline-personality-disorder

The books "Stop walking on eggshells" and "I hate you -- don't hate me" delves more into this topic. I would check out those books if you haven't already.

As for NC vs LC, I hear you. With my previous relationships it was always NC, heck I'm still friends with my NON exes and I think that's the norm really. I like being able to have good memories with friends without having the emotion part destroy me.

While people can argue for the pros and cons of either method, I think it's best to go with what works best for you.

Any updates on your situation Penumbra66? Your insights are great, i know you'll choose whatever is right for you.

[Penumbra66]

You will notice... .everything she says is all about HER. She is building you up with compliments and telling you that you are "the love of her life" to hook you... .

but then she is worried about the person she is with and his well beijng, ability to afford to live alone. She can't tell you WHEN this will happen. And as we know BPD's change their minds within moments.

Give me a break! Sorry, today I am a bit stronger than I was yesterday.

All this is is classic triangulation. For all you know there are probably others she is working on.  She NEEDS to be wanted. This has nothing to do with being the "love of her life". She wants you to be constantly pining for her. That's where she gets her "value". What kills me is men die over these b___es. You hear all these stories about people comitting suicide from this abuse. I WAS THERE A YEAR AGO. I can relate. I lay in my bed for two weeks over Christmas wanting to die. I didn't shower I didn't answer the phone, the door. My family threatened to send the police over for a wellness check if I didn't respond.  I spent those two weeks in bed with an engagement ring I never gave. Staring at it. Crying. Almost mailed a 8K ring to her---which I am so glad that did not happen! No one is worth killing yourself over. I am sure if I was run over by a car today mine would care less.

That is NOT normal. That is a person with bad character who is emotionally retarded. That is not a compassionate, loving person who gives a rats-a about you.

Mine left me twice for the "love of her life" her "best friend". She left me this time stating I am her "best friend". Oh boy, I can't wait til she attempts a return. It is OH-VA this time!

Baloney. All of these words are baloney. Their words NEVER match their actions.

If you truly were the love of her life she would never ever had pulled all this crap on you my friend. When we love someone we don't do this stuff... .unless we are seven and that isn't love, that's school crush stuff.

I'm sorry if I am sounding harsh but I've been through three recycles (three too many). I have been on this site off and on over three years. I am going to be 40 this year. I wasted three childbearing years and am now single and starting over.  I am FINALLY learning I am better than this... .I am worth so much more. I HAVE the capacity to be a best friend, wife, lover, mother... .

she NEVER will have the capacity to experience that.

There are good people out there that won't give you this grief.  I promise you that. And I am not BPD so my promises are real.


You need to be cautious. I know I still crave mine contacting me for the validation... .but I know how it will end... .each time more painful. I don't want to see another person suffer like that. Please take my words as tough love and not criticism. You are doing the right thing posting here.

PW

Pretty Woman,

Thank you for posting this. My appologies for the late reply.

As far as triangulation, I agree completely. Her words are fairly similar to those heard last year, with very few changes.  People can and do decide to reconcile, or at least try, even after making serious mistakes. But how many people claim to want to rebuild a relationship,  to have a desire to "make things right,"  without being even close to a position to make those things possible? In one message she even stated that she thought we could be "friends," but that it was obvious to her that there was way too much physical attraction. So I don't think her goal is to "have me in her life" as she claims, at least not in any meaningful way. Regardless of BPD, it's still angers me that she would  act so insensitively and you responsibly. Ironically, she seems much more concerned with the mental health and well-being of my replacement then she ever was with me, and continues to have more concern for him while claiming her  desire to reunite with me. And let's face it – – she's really treating him horribly, too.

I'm terribly sorry for everything you've experienced personally. Thank God for BPD family,  because no one would believe our stories otherwise. This Saturday will be the one year anniversary of our break up, and I suffered the most brutal three months of my life afterwards. That includes deaths in my immediate family, and a debilitating accident that took over three years to "recover" from,  while still suffering some impairment. The vast majority of us here get it. It sucks. I'm just glad I have you and others to bounce ideas off of.

[Penumbra66]

I feel now like I may have mattered to her

Of course you did, you shouldn't discredit the love. It was honest and sincere at the time, but like you said it's all about them.

There's an article written from a pwBPD in remission that talks about love from their perspective: https://bpdfamily.com/content/my-definition-love-i-have-borderline-personality-disorder

The books "Stop walking on eggshells" and "I hate you -- don't hate me" delves more into this topic. I would check out those books if you haven't already.

As for NC vs LC, I hear you. With my previous relationships it was always NC, heck I'm still friends with my NON exes and I think that's the norm really. I like being able to have good memories with friends without having the emotion part destroy me.

While people can argue for the pros and cons of either method, I think it's best to go with what works best for you.

Any updates on your situation Penumbra66? Your insights are great, i know you'll choose whatever is right for you.

I've actually read both of those books, and have copies on my iPad that I look at occasionally. I've also read from the link you posted previously, but it's good to go back and reread these things because I find the whole disorder so unbelievably strange.  I'll take a look again before I head off to sleep.

When we last communicated, which I think was on Friday, I told her that we didn't really have anything to communicate about. As much as she might protest, she is simply not available. I'm still tempted trying to reconciliation should she ever truly be open to it, but at this point it doesn't feel like a priority for me. She gave me what I needed most, which is validation for my suffering, and at least claiming to take responsibility for her atrocious behavior.  Unfortunately, I also feel more physical desire for her than probably anyone else I've ever dated, so that remains a problem to be aware of.  I still find myself toying with the thought of "just" sleeping together, which is probably not the best idea I've had.

[Penumbra66]

Hi Penumbra,

How did you ex handle engulfment during the relationship? Did her engulfment issues ultimately lead to the relationship's termination?

I personally wouldn't put a lot of stock into what she is saying right now because that's the voice of idealization speaking; she is in pull mode. My questions/thoughts would be focused on what's going to happen when she goes into push mode, when you're devalued.

To me, she is already presenting you with a huge red flag. She is going behind the other guy's back trying to reconcile with you. Hmmm, so, she cheated on you, and now, basically, she is cheating on him (betraying his trust). Has anything changed here?

Apollotech,

She claimed shortly after break up  that she was fearful of being stuck with me "forever," and in her recent emails she goes into much more detail on her fears of engulfment.  She is much younger than I am, and I often felt as though breaking up with her might be the right thing to do,  because I wouldn't want her to be stuck with an "old" man. On the other hand, she's going to grad school in September – – at least that was her plan last year – – and we both thought that would be the end of it. In her emails, however, she told me that she had never met anyone she thought she could be happy with long-term in her lifeIn her emails, however, she told me that she had never met anyone she thought she could be happy with long-term in her life before me.

Regardless of where her real feelings might lie, I do believe that engulfment played a large part in our breakup. She was difficult, and quite frankly often a pain in the neck, with lots of drama. But she was never mean, never raged She was difficult, and quite frankly often a pain in the neck, with lots of drama in our relationship. But she was never mean, never raged (with two absolutely bizarre and inappropriate--but short lived--exceptions).  Who are in difference, lack of respect, and downright cruel tea at the end of our relationship, however, still feels unforgivable at this point.