Worse and worse

[Parents! Get help here!]

Hello, Glenna  

Have you read the book "Overcoming Borderline Personality Disorder" by Valerie Porr? If not, I think it would be a very good read for you; it's my BPD "Bible" (has a very good Index in the back where you can look up the issues you are dealing with, though reading it all is the best thing to do).

I ask this, because several of us on this site--including me--have benefitted from using this statement from the Overcoming Borderline Personality Disorder book. It's found on page 331, and she calls it an

Acceptance-Acknowledgement Declaration:

I never knew how much pain you were in. I never knew how much you suffered. I must have said and done so many things to hurt you because I did not understand or acknowledge your pain. I am so sorry. It was never my intention to cause you pain. What can we do now to improve our relationship?

This is the kind of statement that lbjnltx is talking about, and having an ongoing conversation with your daughter using the Empathy skills that she also mentioned can be read about in a Workshop we have here: How do we become more empathetic to the pwBPD in our life? That Workshop has saved my relationship with my (non-BPD) son and his wife (who has, at least, BPD traits)  

One of the best communication techniques to use when dealing with our BPD loved ones is related to Validation, and is about using Support, Empathy & Truth, and is found here: COMMUNICATION: S.E.T. technique. This is the best skill I've learned since finding this site, and I not only use it for communicating with my BPD loved ones, but with everyone in my life, actually.

And one more thing that I have found that has made a VERY big difference in how I figured out how to deal with my BPD loved ones is this: Radical Acceptance for family members... .When I was so tangled up in their feelings about me and their words to me, Radical Acceptance of their disordered thinking/feelings helped me to detach from their treatment of me and see the situation as it really is: it's more about them, and not me--it's about their disordered feelings/thinking and doesn't mean I'm a "bad person" at all.

You're in a tough, stressful and difficult situation, Glenna, but keep reading all you can on this site, and posting your questions about the difficulties you are having with your daughter. You will find things will get better as you learn more and apply what you learn... .Can you let us know what you think of the information at those (or some of those) links? We'd really like to help  

[Rapt Reader]

Hello, Glenna  

Have you read the book "Overcoming Borderline Personality Disorder" by Valerie Porr? If not, I think it would be a very good read for you; it's my BPD "Bible" (has a very good Index in the back where you can look up the issues you are dealing with, though reading it all is the best thing to do).

I ask this, because several of us on this site--including me--have benefitted from using this statement from the Overcoming Borderline Personality Disorder book. It's found on page 331, and she calls it an

Acceptance-Acknowledgement Declaration:

I never knew how much pain you were in. I never knew how much you suffered. I must have said and done so many things to hurt you because I did not understand or acknowledge your pain. I am so sorry. It was never my intention to cause you pain. What can we do now to improve our relationship?

This is the kind of statement that lbjnltx is talking about, and having an ongoing conversation with your daughter using the Empathy skills that she also mentioned can be read about in a Workshop we have here: How do we become more empathetic to the pwBPD in our life? That Workshop has saved my relationship with my (non-BPD) son and his wife (who has, at least, BPD traits)  

One of the best communication techniques to use when dealing with our BPD loved ones is related to Validation, and is about using Support, Empathy & Truth, and is found here: COMMUNICATION: S.E.T. technique. This is the best skill I've learned since finding this site, and I not only use it for communicating with my BPD loved ones, but with everyone in my life, actually.

And one more thing that I have found that has made a VERY big difference in how I figured out how to deal with my BPD loved ones is this: Radical Acceptance for family members... .When I was so tangled up in their feelings about me and their words to me, Radical Acceptance of their disordered thinking/feelings helped me to detach from their treatment of me and see the situation as it really is: it's more about them, and not me--it's about their disordered feelings/thinking and doesn't mean I'm a "bad person" at all.

You're in a tough, stressful and difficult situation, Glenna, but keep reading all you can on this site, and posting your questions about the difficulties you are having with your daughter. You will find things will get better as you learn more and apply what you learn... .Can you let us know what you think of the information at those (or some of those) links? We'd really like to help  

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Glenna]

Hello Rapt Reader,

I had already written the following post to lbjnltx when I received your post. Thank you for it. I know she must be in pain, but she keeps it deep down under a persona of both competance and confidence. She has lots of good friends and has from the outside a very nice life. Her friends think she is an angel. But her behavior at home is so objectionable that the pain she causes, especially to her children, is so bad I'm appalled. Her older son used to be a happy boy. She now treats him with a mix of lovey dovey seducing and insults. She has said that in every altercation with his brother he is the wrong one. I see how horribly this hurts him, and of course encourages more bad feeling between the two boys.  

I looked at the workshop on empathy and it looks great. But I am having a hard time with what I see as her really hideous behavior. I don't understand it. As I asked lbjnltx below, do BPD's have a conscience? I am really curious about that. My mother didn't have much of one.

Thank you for your concern and kindness, and your suggestions. I am very appreciative.

Glenna

Dear lbjnltx,

I have improved my behavior a lot re my uxBPDd36. I am seeing her insults as just raving and am not taking them to heart. I don't react and I don't even feel much anger. I have been thinking a lot about how to talk to her about unmet needs in her childhood and intend to do it soon.

Problem is that she is just so nasty. This morning she again encouraged her two boys to give me a hard time. They were using a slingshot to shoot toys into my bedroom, which does not have a door that locks, and just harassing me in general while I was trying to work on the computer. She laughs and laughs, esp when something hit me, and says 'they're just playing' when I object. To me this is sadistic, and she is giving hideous example.

Also, she has now begun to blame them for things that are wrong in her life, e.g. 'you made me sick, so upset I ... ., you're the reason I can't do ... ., etc.

When she is like this I see her as a depraved person. During 'splits' do BPD's have a conscience?

Thank you again for your responses.

Glenna

[Glenna]

So I see what one of my problems is. I wrote both of the above posts right after my uxBPDd36 went out with her kids. They were annoying me to the end. Since then I am angry. I control my annoyance when they are here, but when she leaves I'm furious. I see the horrific mess of the apartment, I see things I washed on the floor, I think of what she says and her attitude and I get furious. Of course it's anger that is only hurting me. Is it resentment? It definitely keeps me locked in a spot.

[lbjnltx]

Do they have a conscience? Yes... .and mistakes/abusive behavior/irresponsibility adds to their inherent sense of shame.  When the shame rises up and becomes to much for them to tolerate (they generally have low distress tolerance) they lash out and project onto those who will take it... .mom, dad, husband, child, bff.  As they learn skills to not lash out and have a more positive self image/sense of self they can increase their distress tolerance, learn to express in healthy ways and have value based boundaries.  Lashing out and projecting is ugly and hurtful and the lesser of other low level coping skills like self injury or engaging in suicidal ideation/threats/attempts.

I can understand why you are angry... .angry people are hurting people.   

Dealing with the underlying emotions is important so that we don't become resentful.  Read about it here:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=135831.0

[Glenna]

I hardly know what to say. I am in such a despondant state.

My uBPDd36's behavior has changed somewhat since I have changed mine. I don't react the way I used to, I stay calmer and ignore a lot of her crazy talk. I can't say that I am being very loving, but I'm answering in a nice tone and I did say that at some point I must have let her down. She said she does not know when that was. She actually asked a family friend if I was a good mother. He said he never saw anyone who was a better one and that I was a wonderful mother. Did this give her pause? No. 

I have been very aware of not putting my head on a chopping block in any way and this seems to take the wind out of her sails. Sorry for the 2 cliches, but they express what I want to say. I feel that she hates me when I'm at all 'weak,' which means disarmed, guileless, chummy or sad. I need to keep a distance for her to respect me.

She is apologizing more for her 'nastiness,' and actually said once that it was because of x that she was being so awful to me.

But in another way she's getting worse! She was reading some descriptions of sick personalities in an old eneagram book and being just amazed that the worst type fit me perfectly. she did this loudly in front of the kids, almost as if it were a fun thing. She mocked me, again loudly about a short note I had written to myself about eating less which showed, to her, that I was a sicko about food. She repeats these things many times before she moves on. She has succeeded in,  at least for now, turning the boys against me. They used to come into my room to visit and we'd laugh and joke, used to want to go places with me, be friendly. These days they stick to her, only want to go outside with her and say unkind things to me in the guise of teasing and sometimes even seriously.

I am so beaten down that I think only of surviving until they leave, but the truth is I am sick from the sadness and the loss and the twistedness of it. Like my mother, she is taking everyone away from them so that she will be the only person in their lives. She has told them to stop calling me grandma and call me by my name instead. My mother had us call my father by his first name.

Knowing that the worse she is, the worse she feels about herself and that makes her be even worse is frightening. And to see her twisting up the minds of these boys is so deeply sickening.

I'd like to add that I have been enduring her  abuse for at least 20 years now. I think this is why I cannot manage to speak to her in a very loving tone. I am too horrified at her.

[Glenna]

I see I am repeating myself. The problem is that for the past twenty years I have denied that anything is seriously wrong with her and erased all the ugly episodes the minute she was 'nice' again.

I now don't believe the 'nice' at all, and therefore can't feel much sympathy for her. I do when I'm not with her, but as soon as she starts, I'm, at the least, annoyed.