Feeling stupid and pathetic..

[klacey3]

I am really really annoyed at myself for breaking no contact  after  changing my number etc I was proud of myself. After a month of no contact i caved and replied to his email

He wanted me to see him for his birthday... i said no because of everything that has happened. He told me he loves me and he is sorry and he knows he treated me badly and wishes I was with him This was suprising to me as I always thought he wasnt aware he was treating me like crap. When I asked why he treated me so badly and knowing it if he loved me he said that it was because he is ****head and thought I would never leave him.

I think this is the lowest I have felt in an interaction with him. All the time when I was with him I gave him leeway thinking he just doesnt understand that he is wrong and he has issues so he cant help it, he doesnt realise what he is doing. But this is devasting that all the times when he treated me badly he knew exactly how wrong it is but he thought I would never leave him... its awful thinking he thought I was that pathetic and that much of a pushover that i would accept anything... I feel so stupid and naive and pathetic...

[Pretty Woman]

We have all done it.

Trust me. I fell for the dumbest trick in the book... .I received an email with a ? in the header. It was an email from a year earlier... .same date. 

I didn't respond for a week and then did.  The reply I got was: My email must have done a weird dump from last year. How are you?

It was so lame I can't believe I fell for it but I did and we recycled.

They get lonely and reach out. It happens.  Unless he is getting treatment... .serious core treatment he will continue to treat you poorly.

 don't beat yourself up.  Change the number again... .start over. Never anything wrong with that.

[LimboFL]

Lacey, ask yourself this, would anyone in their right mind confess something like that when trying to reconcile? No! In other words, don't hurt yourself by believing that his actions, when he was hurting you were pre-meditated and intentional. I have seen you around this board so I know you have read a lot of what is written here. Their minds are such a sad mess that whatever comes out of their mouth, at any given moment, is just what their mind is telling them to say.

They don't want to hurt us but they can't help it. As I have sad so many times on this board we all suffer because the horrible words are coming from the same people who were also sweet and kind to us. Don't twist yourself into a knot thinking that just because the words came through a familiar voice that message is real. I would splice it to read that he does love and miss you but NOT that he purposely took advantage of you.

Can you not see how abnormal it is for anyone to make such a brutal confession at the very time that they are trying to tell you that they love and miss you? Does this not scream confusion, almost panic?

This doesn't mean you should ever accept him back in your life but not because he is a sleazy scum bag but rather because his disorder will just keep on hurting you.

In short, do not feel stupid or pathetic because our exBPD's did not hurt us intentionally, then or in your case, now. I still love my ex and would have broken NC some time ago but we can't beat the disorder, so we have to move on without them, as much as it near kills us. Moving on means ZERO contact, because it will always leave us confused, unsure, hurt and more.

My ex left a message on my vm saying that she loved me. I emailed her that I loved her to, would never understand and that she would always occupy a huge part of my heart but that I had to travel a very painful road to get where I am and that communication had to stop at my message. If you can't just cut him out then send a message of love and then stick to NC after that. This way it's being done with kindness.

It's going to punch you in the gut, you will cry lots of tears, I did. But what helps is the knowledge that your last words were loving and kind. This is how I got my closure. I knew that she could never give it to me, so I found a way to gently close the door with the message that it wasn't because I was angry.

You are not stupid or pathetic. You are kind, caring and loved this person. Hate the disorder, not the person. Easier said than done but... .

[fromheeltoheal]

Hey klacey-

I am really really annoyed at myself for breaking no contact  after  changing my number etc I was proud of myself. After a month of no contact i caved and replied to his email

So how can you use that?  What did you learn?  The only useless pain is the pain we don't use or learn from, and detachment isn't linear.

You say

I think this is the lowest I have felt in an interaction with him.

and

I feel so stupid and naive and pathetic...

You can use that as fuel to strengthen your resolve to completely remove him from you life, yes?

He wanted me to see him for his birthday... i said no because of everything that has happened. He told me he loves me and he is sorry and he knows he treated me badly and wishes I was with him This was suprising to me as I always thought he wasnt aware he was treating me like crap. When I asked why he treated me so badly and knowing it if he loved me he said that it was because he is ****head and thought I would never leave him.

I think this is the lowest I have felt in an interaction with him. All the time when I was with him I gave him leeway thinking he just doesnt understand that he is wrong and he has issues so he cant help it, he doesnt realise what he is doing. But this is devasting that all the times when he treated me badly he knew exactly how wrong it is but he thought I would never leave him... its awful thinking he thought I was that pathetic and that much of a pushover that i would accept anything... I feel so stupid and naive and pathetic...

Borderlines in fear of losing an attachment will go into pull mode, which includes saying whatever he has to say to try and reestablish that attachment.  It's impossible to tell if he was sincere in writing, by talking on the phone or seeing him in person you'd get more information and be able to better assess if he's sincere or not, but you probably don't want to do that, so best to take his words lightly and not assign too much meaning to them, except he's a borderline testing an attachment.

[Mutt]

Hi Klacey,

We have all done it.

I'm sorry to hear that  I think often we have floating boundaries and a pwBPD will test our resolve and know if they keep trying they'll get what they want. I didn't have strong boundaries with my ex partner. I can understand how disappointed we may feel if we break no contact. It's not a fast and dirty rule, don't be hard on yourself, try again.

[klacey3]

Lacey, ask yourself this, would anyone in their right mind confess something like that when trying to reconcile? No! In other words, don't hurt yourself by believing that his actions, when he was hurting you were pre-meditated and intentional. I have seen you around this board so I know you have read a lot of what is written here. Their minds are such a sad mess that whatever comes out of their mouth, at any given moment, is just what their mind is telling them to say.

They don't want to hurt us but they can't help it. As I have sad so many times on this board we all suffer because the horrible words are coming from the same people who were also sweet and kind to us. Don't twist yourself into a knot thinking that just because the words came through a familiar voice that message is real. I would splice it to read that he does love and miss you but NOT that he purposely took advantage of you.

Can you not see how abnormal it is for anyone to make such a brutal confession at the very time that they are trying to tell you that they love and miss you? Does this not scream confusion, almost panic?

This doesn't mean you should ever accept him back in your life but not because he is a sleazy scum bag but rather because his disorder will just keep on hurting you.

In short, do not feel stupid or pathetic because our exBPD's did not hurt us intentionally, then or in your case, now. I still love my ex and would have broken NC some time ago but we can't beat the disorder, so we have to move on without them, as much as it near kills us. Moving on means ZERO contact, because it will always leave us confused, unsure, hurt and more.

My ex left a message on my vm saying that she loved me. I emailed her that I loved her to, would never understand and that she would always occupy a huge part of my heart but that I had to travel a very painful road to get where I am and that communication had to stop at my message. If you can't just cut him out then send a message of love and then stick to NC after that. This way it's being done with kindness.

It's going to punch you in the gut, you will cry lots of tears, I did. But what helps is the knowledge that your last words were loving and kind. This is how I got my closure. I knew that she could never give it to me, so I found a way to gently close the door with the message that it wasn't because I was angry.

You are not stupid or pathetic. You are kind, caring and loved this person. Hate the disorder, not the person. Easier said than done but... .

Hi Limbo. Thank you for the long detailed thoughtful reply.

This is where I get very confused... .because some people say they are aware when they are treating someone badly/insulting and some people say they truly believe that they are right doing nothing wrong. So when he admitted he has treated me badly because he thought he could get away with it I believed him. He also said at times he thought I was being too much and argued relentlessly.

Also what confuses me is that he has admitted several times before he only says certain things to hurt me as he feels I have hurt him. So that was intentional... right?

Are they that unwell that we should give them leeway like people would if someone with alzeimers/dementia raged at them? If they are mentally ill how much can they help it?

I agree with what you say about no contact. I will try my best. I sent a last nice email and he responded saying i love him i should prove it and see him on his birthday this week. He said otherwise he will stand at the train station near my house all evening punishing himself... *palm to head*  I am going to try as hard as i can not to contact him in response.

[klacey3]

Thank you also prettywoman, heeltoheel and mutt. I suppose like you say no contact is best and alot of people have been in my shoes.

[Lucky Jim]

I sent a last nice email and he responded saying i love him i should prove it and see him on his birthday this week. He said otherwise he will stand at the train station near my house all evening punishing himself... *palm to head*  I am going to try as hard as i can not to contact him in response.

Hey klacey3,  He is manipulating you through F-O-G (fear, obligation and guilt) in order to force you to see him on his birthday.  My suggestion: ignore it.  Things we do in response to manipulation are usually regretted later, in my experience.  Those of us who are susceptible to manipulation (including me) frequently have codependent tendencies because we are afraid to "let someone down."  It's OK, another adult can handle it if you decline to carry out some request.

LuckyJim

[Mutt]

Hi klacey,

I understand how we struggle through no contact. We have a neuro-chemical change in our brains weeks after a break-up that triggers pain and cravings. We may feel hyper-vigilance, PTSD symptoms, emotional distress, anxiety, depression... .It's tough

[apollotech]

... .he said that it was because he is ****head and thought I would never leave him.

klacey,

This was probably said to illicit a response from you, which would open a dialogue, which is what he wants. He may say things to anger you. He may say things to hurt you. He may say things to scare you. He may say things to make you jealous. It'll all be designed to illicit a response and open a dialogue. Be prepared for more of his lunacy.

[klacey3]

... .he said that it was because he is ****head and thought I would never leave him.

klacey,

This was probably said to illicit a response from you, which would open a dialogue, which is what he wants. He may say things to anger you. He may say things to hurt you. He may say things to scare you. He may say things to make you jealous. It'll all be designed to illicit a response and open a dialogue. Be prepared for more of his lunacy.

I read up about BPD everyday but I just get more and more confused! What is the real truth? Why cant they just be honest :-/ though I think they change their mind alot which is the ultimate problem.

I thought BPDs cant take responsibility... yet he saod he knew he treated me badly because he thought i would never leave and becaude he thought he could get away with it. Though I remember him saying weeks ago "i always knew you would leave me. As usual i proved you wrong"  do they say these things for a response or do they just get confused with which one they mean?

[fromheeltoheal]

Are they that unwell that we should give them leeway like people would if someone with alzeimers/dementia raged at them? If they are mentally ill how much can they help it?

A borderline's disorder is not their fault but their behaviors are still their responsibility.  Anyone we're in a relationship with has a mix of traits we like and traits we don't, and it's up to us to decide if the balance is acceptable and the union is compatible.  You can check the Staying board here for what the people who have chosen to stay with a borderline put up with and how they deal with it, and ultimately it's about what you want and whether or not you're getting your needs met in the relationship; if not, moving on might be the best course.

[LimboFL]

Lacey, you are welcome.

If you take a few steps back, how reasonable is the belief that he needs to hurt you because he feels that you wronged him? Doesn't this go back to the painted black thing? Is it rational? I will share another story that I have shared many times here that might illuminate things better.

Well into our 2nd year living together, my son had been living with my 50% of the time. One night, after he had just arrived, I am sitting front having a smoke and a cocktail and she quietly comes out and whispers in my ear "I need you to know that my brain is telling me that I dislike (son), I know it's wrong but I can't help it and don't know what to do about it, I am sorry" It broke my heart.

If anyone has felt depression and anxiety, we are still conscious right? We know that it is irrational, right? We can even reason with ourselves, but if the episode is strong enough, our emotions don't change. In fact, just look at all of the anxiety we face when getting out of the relationships, how we reason with ourselves and still feel pain and anxiety.

Now imagine these emotions sustained every single day of your life? A depressed person might go on with their daily lives and will fight against the negative emotions flooding them, until they just snap! How long would that fuse be if you had to deal with this perpetually?

These are not zombies who change from good to bad, they are people who likely spend most of their lives holding back their impulses and negative emotions until they simply can't hold on any longer and the negative driving forces are simply pushing too hard and they just let go and swim with the tide.

I am not excusing them completely nor absolving them of their poor choices, but I believe it is important to understand as it pertains to how they hurt us, that it isn't because they don't care or because they don't love us. It is because they don't have the capability of emotionally regulating and yes, there were many times where my ex genuinely felt that she had not done anything wrong, when she had.

The point that I am trying to make is that despite our love for them and despite the fact they are human, by chastising yourself you are only thinking with your rational mind and not taking into account that even if the words coming out of their mouths make sense and that they seem to have a "legitimate" (invented or at least way exaggerated" extended gripe against us, that it means that their minds are working using the same kind of reason that ours do.

He clearly wants you but he simply doesn't how how to go about it. His comment about wanting to hurt you, by being a jerk, sounds more like something that a child would say, no? I understand that this is a lover and not a relation or even an offspring but how would you react if a child, that you loved, said the same thing to you? You might get hurt for a second and then realize that it was a child who doesn't have a developed enough sense of being to understand the pain that their words have inflicted on you.   

[antelope]

What is the real truth? Why cant they just be honest

actually, their actions are pure unfiltered honesty

stop rehashing what he said and looking for hidden meanings and context

just examine his actions, and take it a step further and notice the patterns of those actions

all the answers you really need are in his actions... .he manipulates you, he plays games with you, and ultimately you feel like sh1t... .this is the real truth!

[LimboFL]

Kacey, ultimately as you walk away from this relationship, which you must, what will make you heal faster? what will make YOU get past it? I don't know the whole story or how long you spent with your ex, whether you lived together or not, but I ask you this? Have you ever in your life been duped for the duration that you were with your ex? I doubt it, which means what? That it wasn't all lies and manipulation but rather an inability to cope with the rush of emotions that envelope them.

I left before my ex could follow through with the replacement. I know exactly what triggered the abandonment but once that die was cast, nothing I could have said could have changed the course. She held numerous things against me, such silly things as you promised you would go to the doctor but didn't (she saw this as a heinous slight). I wasn't sick. It was a slight that happened two years prior and she NEVER let it go.

The bottom line is this, you need to twist your mind into believing whatever makes you feel as good as is possible as you walk away. Despite all of my anger towards my ex, whether true or not, I won't ever believe that she was in our relationship for any other reason than because she wanted to be, that she DID love me. After I left I never thought I would hear from her again and then I get a message on my machine "I love you" I didn't call back because this was all I wanted to and needed to hear in order for me to move forward with the belief that I needed. If believing that your ex was a manipulative, slime bag who never loved you and whose only objective was to use you, the run with that. This will only work, if the anger that comes from that belief forces you to hate long enough to escape the anguish. If, however, like me you believe that the love was there but that the mind screw that our partners go through on a daily basis, mental gymnastics that neither you or I could ever fathom, then you allow yourself to walk away with a sense of empathy but also an understanding that to travel that road again would only result in more pain.

Obviously, after years of analysis, I have chosen to opt for the latter. You have to make your own choice but no matter what and there is no straddling the fence on this one, you have to cut all contact. Every day, good or bad, I wonder what she is up to, who she is with etc etc. I wonder, I worry, but no matter the love, I just can't allow myself to regress. The consequences are too severe. Life is a battle as it is and I wonder if I will ever be in a position to find love again. My radar is so on alert that i continue to look for clues, trying to determine what lies beneath the skin of the people I meet along the way. I stinks BUT, at least my brain isn't spinning every day, I am infinitely calmer around my son, I don't live under a cloud of worry or guilt.

The way I read your ex's statement to you was "I love you, I miss you, my brain continues to blame you for the wrongs I believe that you committed against me and I retaliated because I had to and because I can neither truly reason with these thoughts or control my desire to punish you for it. It is the only way that I know how to react and be". If you read my last post, then you will have read that this is EXACTLY what my ex said to me, in relation to how she felt about my son, in that moment. All of this action speaks louder than words, is very misleading. My ex's words, that night, were crystal clear. Ultimately, only you truly knew your ex and this is what you need to use to guide you, not some over simplified and non specific talking points on what and how pwBPD feel and act. They don't come out of some factory with instructions.

Think whatever will bring you peace. Trust me, you can still have tons of anger because that is what is needed to detach, it is that counter balance that one must use to combat the longing.

Again my primary objective in writing such long messages is that at NO TIME, EVER should you feel stupid and pathetic. if anything you should feel proud because you fought the good fight and was willing to fight on even further, in the hopes that you could pull this damaged person out of the deep pit they were in. This is admirable and kind. This is what love is supposed to be, the desire to endure through thick and thin. EXCEPT, if it ends up in your own destruction.

I hope I made sense and big huge hug. It has been a long day so forgive grammatical errors.

[apollotech]

... .he said that it was because he is ****head and thought I would never leave him.

klacey,

This was probably said to illicit a response from you, which would open a dialogue, which is what he wants. He may say things to anger you. He may say things to hurt you. He may say things to scare you. He may say things to make you jealous. It'll all be designed to illicit a response and open a dialogue. Be prepared for more of his lunacy.

I read up about BPD everyday but I just get more and more confused! What is the real truth? Why cant they just be honest :-/ though I think they change their mind alot which is the ultimate problem.

I thought BPDs cant take responsibility... yet he saod he knew he treated me badly because he thought i would never leave and becaude he thought he could get away with it. Though I remember him saying weeks ago "i always knew you would leave me. As usual i proved you wrong"  do they say these things for a response or do they just get confused with which one they mean?

klacey,

Their (<--- key word) truth is what they say at the time they say it. It usually has little to do with actual truth or reality. (A perfect example of this is how wonderfully awesome we all were during idealization, yet, during devaluation, we all become pristinely horrible. The reality, truth, is that we're, in general, neither of these.) I think you're getting confused because you're buying into his truth, his reality. You know it's not truthful or real, so it creates a paradox within you. Is that a process that you can see happening within yourself? If you can identify it, you can get control of it.

I thought BPDs cant take responsibility... yet he saod he knew he treated me badly because he thought i would never leave and becaude he thought he could get away with it.

You're right, they generally don't accept responsibility for their actions. You're buying into his truth, his reality, and that's making you question your truth, your reality. Read up on Gaslighting. I think that you're falling victim to that.

Next time that you find yourself in confusion over what was said to you, don't ignore the confusion. Stop. Examine what was said. Is there truth and/or valid reality in what was said?

[Brood]

But this is devasting that all the times when he treated me badly he knew exactly how wrong it is but he thought I would never leave him...

-klacey

I understand exactly how you feel, my soon to be ex started our relationship talking about marriage and kids right away. She made me promise over and over that I would never leave her, she still does. It's pretty crazy the mental gymnastics your brain executes when you're forced to repeat things so many times... it made me fear what would happen if it ever came to me leaving. The guilt and shame of even thinking of breaking it off kept me at her side for months upon months of agony.

My NC starts tomorrow and I am not looking forward to her reaction or mine. Stay strong for yourself klacey, you've done such a great job already it can only get better from here if you keep it up. I'll know even more how you feel very soon.  :'(  

[Lucky Jim]

Their (<--- key word) truth is what they say at the time they say it. It usually has little to do with actual truth or reality. (A perfect example of this is how wonderfully awesome we all were during idealization, yet, during devaluation, we all become pristinely horrible. The reality, truth, is that we're, in general, neither of these.) I think you're getting confused because you're buying into his truth, his reality. You know it's not truthful or real, so it creates a paradox within you.

Totally agree, apollotech.  Their reality, as you note, is often far removed from what is actually happening or what has happened, yet it takes a while to see that because they are so convincing in their emotional intensity.  In this sense, they thrive on drama, which is just that, a performance outside of reality.

LuckyJim

[klacey3]

Kacey, ultimately as you walk away from this relationship, which you must, what will make you heal faster? what will make YOU get past it? I don't know the whole story or how long you spent with your ex, whether you lived together or not, but I ask you this? Have you ever in your life been duped for the duration that you were with your ex? I doubt it, which means what? That it wasn't all lies and manipulation but rather an inability to cope with the rush of emotions that envelope them.

I left before my ex could follow through with the replacement. I know exactly what triggered the abandonment but once that die was cast, nothing I could have said could have changed the course. She held numerous things against me, such silly things as you promised you would go to the doctor but didn't (she saw this as a heinous slight). I wasn't sick. It was a slight that happened two years prior and she NEVER let it go.

The bottom line is this, you need to twist your mind into believing whatever makes you feel as good as is possible as you walk away. Despite all of my anger towards my ex, whether true or not, I won't ever believe that she was in our relationship for any other reason than because she wanted to be, that she DID love me. After I left I never thought I would hear from her again and then I get a message on my machine "I love you" I didn't call back because this was all I wanted to and needed to hear in order for me to move forward with the belief that I needed. If believing that your ex was a manipulative, slime bag who never loved you and whose only objective was to use you, the run with that. This will only work, if the anger that comes from that belief forces you to hate long enough to escape the anguish. If, however, like me you believe that the love was there but that the mind screw that our partners go through on a daily basis, mental gymnastics that neither you or I could ever fathom, then you allow yourself to walk away with a sense of empathy but also an understanding that to travel that road again would only result in more pain.

Obviously, after years of analysis, I have chosen to opt for the latter. You have to make your own choice but no matter what and there is no straddling the fence on this one, you have to cut all contact. Every day, good or bad, I wonder what she is up to, who she is with etc etc. I wonder, I worry, but no matter the love, I just can't allow myself to regress. The consequences are too severe. Life is a battle as it is and I wonder if I will ever be in a position to find love again. My radar is so on alert that i continue to look for clues, trying to determine what lies beneath the skin of the people I meet along the way. I stinks BUT, at least my brain isn't spinning every day, I am infinitely calmer around my son, I don't live under a cloud of worry or guilt.

The way I read your ex's statement to you was "I love you, I miss you, my brain continues to blame you for the wrongs I believe that you committed against me and I retaliated because I had to and because I can neither truly reason with these thoughts or control my desire to punish you for it. It is the only way that I know how to react and be". If you read my last post, then you will have read that this is EXACTLY what my ex said to me, in relation to how she felt about my son, in that moment. All of this action speaks louder than words, is very misleading. My ex's words, that night, were crystal clear. Ultimately, only you truly knew your ex and this is what you need to use to guide you, not some over simplified and non specific talking points on what and how pwBPD feel and act. They don't come out of some factory with instructions.

Think whatever will bring you peace. Trust me, you can still have tons of anger because that is what is needed to detach, it is that counter balance that one must use to combat the longing.

Again my primary objective in writing such long messages is that at NO TIME, EVER should you feel stupid and pathetic. if anything you should feel proud because you fought the good fight and was willing to fight on even further, in the hopes that you could pull this damaged person out of the deep pit they were in. This is admirable and kind. This is what love is supposed to be, the desire to endure through thick and thin. EXCEPT, if it ends up in your own destruction.

I hope I made sense and big huge hug. It has been a long day so forgive grammatical errors.

Thank you limbo for the 2 long amd detailed replies. You have given me alot to think about... it is very sad that (if im correct) their reality is mostly very distorted and they feel a lack of control and reasoning over their long lasting changing emotions.

The comparison to a child was a helpful analogy. Like you say if a child said they wanted to hurt me because i hurt them it wouldn't be too upset as I know they are too young to understand.

[LimboFL]

Lacey, I have slowly been pulling away from the Family because there are too many reminders, at this stage of my "recovery" (8 months) for it to be healthy. As mentioned, I have formed my own conclusions, that give me some comfort. Coming here makes me question them, because there are so many varying opinions on pwBPD.

However, when I read you post, berating yourself, for following your heart and getting hurt again, I felt compelled to offer my two cents, for whatever they are worth. I also always push back hard against any belief that pwBPD fit into this neat little box, that they are all heartless evil creatures who know exactly what they are doing and have complete control. Any time spent here proves this to be anything but the truth. In fact, visit a recent post titled "the sad effect of BPD on a person's life". Take my posts along with the comments in this one to form your opinion of your ex.

It is heartbreaking to think of anyone living like this but when that person is someone whom you fell in love with... .

I am elated that I offered some pause and hope that in time you will reach similar conclusions to my own. 

[klacey3]

Lacey, I have slowly been pulling away from the Family because there are too many reminders, at this stage of my "recovery" (8 months) for it to be healthy. As mentioned, I have formed my own conclusions, that give me some comfort. Coming here makes me question them, because there are so many varying opinions on pwBPD.

However, when I read you post, berating yourself, for following your heart and getting hurt again, I felt compelled to offer my two cents, for whatever they are worth. I also always push back hard against any belief that pwBPD fit into this neat little box, that they are all heartless evil creatures who know exactly what they are doing and have complete control. Any time spent here proves this to be anything but the truth. In fact, visit a recent post titled "the sad effect of BPD on a person's life". Take my posts along with the comments in this one to form your opinion of your ex.

It is heartbreaking to think of anyone living like this but when that person is someone whom you fell in love with... .

I am elated that I offered some pause and hope that in time you will reach similar conclusions to my own. 

Yes there does seem to be many conflicting opinions on BPD which is what I find very confusing. I feel like I need to understand everything to let go. Also the guilt... he offered to give me a hundred pounds (which is alot to him as he is always broke) if i saw him on his 30th birthday this week. He said if i dont see him he will stand all day at the station closest to me punishing himself. It is just so sad to think he is going to be miserable and all alone on a big birthday. He isnt close to his family and he has very few friends.

I reread some old.conversations I had with him during the relationship and feel less bad about leaving. I noticed a big pattern... he would say something upsetting/hurtful, then a few hours later he would act like nothing happened, i would tell him why im upset and the whole thing would start again.

Eg. Him "come over if u want" me - "can we meet somewhere half way between us?" Him - "no" me "why?" Him - "oh just forget it, not playing your games". He would ring me later and i wouldnt answer and then he would send a message about how disgusting i was for cheating on him and he knows me inside out and knows it 'my thing' to kiss strangers every weekend and how he was gonna find someone else to get even.

Yes your posts have helped me. I am going to go NC which is going to be extremely difficult with him claiming he is going to be miserable on his birthday unless i see him...

I hope to read as much about BPD as possible to reach my own conclusion

[Brood]

Lacey, I have slowly been pulling away from the Family because there are too many reminders, at this stage of my "recovery" (8 months) for it to be healthy. As mentioned, I have formed my own conclusions, that give me some comfort. Coming here makes me question them, because there are so many varying opinions on pwBPD.

However, when I read you post, berating yourself, for following your heart and getting hurt again, I felt compelled to offer my two cents, for whatever they are worth. I also always push back hard against any belief that pwBPD fit into this neat little box, that they are all heartless evil creatures who know exactly what they are doing and have complete control. Any time spent here proves this to be anything but the truth. In fact, visit a recent post titled "the sad effect of BPD on a person's life". Take my posts along with the comments in this one to form your opinion of your ex.

It is heartbreaking to think of anyone living like this but when that person is someone whom you fell in love with... .

I am elated that I offered some pause and hope that in time you will reach similar conclusions to my own.  

I understand that pwBPD are human but when do you draw this line I wonder? Under average circumstances we fall for pwBPD because of problems with ourselves and the love we offer these disordered people is only returned when they don't feel threatened at all. I'm sorry but I just think that what you're saying could be misconstrued as reasoning to stay in an abusive relationship. I agree that I could have chosen to stay with my gf, and marry her, but why do I want kids raised by this woman? Why would I want someone who only cares about my feelings when it's for their own benefit? The 'love' that I knew was there a week ago is now crumbling and the only cause is because she left to her parents for a few weeks. Nothing crazy happened... Just the same bs before she left. The only thing that's changed is there's less haze of sh*t stain on my corneas.

What I have learned this week, directly from the words of my s/o:

She does not love me, she loves the thought of me always being there

She doesn't care how I feel unless it will directly influence her state of mind or space, or unless there's a direct benefit to her.

She slips insults in to her words when she feels her ideas and beliefs are being threatened in the slightest.

She does not converse, she does not listen, she does not understand. She talks at me, that's it.

Anything in violation to her very opinionated beliefs is an argument, and arguments are not allowed.

When I go over this incomplete list of things I have learned about her since visiting this family, I am surprised to find that every thing listed here, everything she was to me, is what a normal person would consider abusive and unacceptable. Let alone a cruel joke disguised as love.

Sure, anybody can do what they want. You want to love a sociopath? I'm about to break up with one. Maybe you enjoy being abused? I just can't go through what I did and not feel slightly upset that you're trying to regeneralize pwBPD as upstanding citizens. They aren't... They are VERY cruel people. BPD is literally a list of symptoms, and if you exhibit the symptoms then you have traits of BPD. Sounds pretty cookie cutter to me.

And sure the thought of her being alone with herself crossed my mind thousands of times, it's what has kept me from leaving actually. But you don't enter relationships to fix someone else, it's sad that they have this and the actual event that caused it isn't their fault but how they treat people from then on certainly is. There's no excuse to beat your bf/husband just like there's no excuse to beat your gf/wife. End of story, there's no excuse. You aren't being a martyr, you aren't saving their life. You're impeding their progress by pretending everything is ok.

[LimboFL]

"Sure, anybody can do what they want. You want to love a sociopath? I'm about to break up with one. Maybe you enjoy being abused? I just can't go through what I did and not feel slightly upset that you're trying to regeneralize pwBPD as upstanding citizens. They aren't... They are VERY cruel people. BPD is literally a list of symptoms, and if you exhibit the symptoms then you have traits of BPD. Sounds pretty cookie cutter to me."

Brood, you are clearly angry and not even out of your relationship, so I will temper my response because normally I would bite back, given the misreads and assumptions you have made in your response to a post I made for one specific person. Lacey.

At NO point have I EVER generalized pwBPD as "upstanding citizens". Instead what I said is that they are human. Just like with any other group of humans, you have those who are kind and those who are not.

If you have spent any time on these boards then you should recognize the words that you stbEx spoke. It's called being painted black. In a month or less or more she could come to you with a whole new set of feelings. You speak of strict traits, but then fail to recognize one of the most important ones as it relates to your own story.

You also missed the point where I said that this is how I chose to view my relationship but I also advise others to ensure not to fall into the very pit for which you have placed ALL pwBPD. You will find countless members here who disagree with you and one day maybe you will reach that point, because we are at very different stages, you and I.

I have had plenty of anger and rest assured that I am not some lover of peace at all cost types, quite the contrary, but I do caution new members to NOT fall prey to all of the hard line negativity expressed on this board, UNLESS this is what THEY need to move forward. Your name is new to me, so it is possible that you are new to the board, because if and when you spend enough time here then you will start to see how many variations you will find as people describe both their relationships and the pwBPD who were in those relationships. Yes, there is no question that there are very well defined similarities, idealization/devaluation (every point you listed speaks of devaluation. If there was idealization at any point, even if it wasn't manic, and your ex spoke of you with love and caring then why are those words viewed as NOT real and what were clearly words spoken in devaluation, the words you believe with concrete certainty, to be who she is and how she truly feels?), push/pull, black/white, engulfment/abandonment but once you stray away from those, you will find individuals with their own experiences and personalities.

If you have read my story, to any degree, then you will know that I have plenty to be angry about. Calling ALL OF THEM cruel, in and of itself, is ignoring or denying the set of symptoms that you, yourself, pointed out in your response to my posting. One day, I hope you will appreciate how counter intuitive it is to, on the one hand, confirm with considerable adamance the very real traits of pwBPD and on the other, speak of their actions as intentionally cruel and calculated. By saying the latter you are cancelling out the symptoms and discarding the pain that pwBPD suffer and ignoring how living with this disorder can effect ones ability to navigate life.

Do they cause a tremendous amount of pain? YES! To their so's but even more so to themselves. Is what you are feeling, justified? YES! You are hurt and angry. What I ask though, is that when attempting to counsel others that you refrain from allowing that anger to spill out onto the board, because not everyone feels the way they do about their ex's. Some want to understand and want to feel that they weren't used. I never sugar coat anything I say, nor do I deny the abuse. I know I lived it. I am not some Monday morning psychology quarterback, who has come onto this board to offer uninformed advice, but rather am someone who lived for 4 years with a pwBPD (and a host of other disorders) and spent most that time educating myself on this terrible disorder. I also left her when she broke a boundary that I couldn't accept.

Now please don't get me wrong. I am not a naive man who prefers to see the world, my relationship, through rose colored glasses to evade or escape the pain. I lived it, cried buckets at the loss, hated her for the hell she put me through but I also played my part, as we all do and have educated myself enough to recognize that my ex had to have gone through tremendous agony, at a young age, to have developed this disorder. That down inside of her lies a genuinely kind. loving person who I know aches at the pain she has caused.

The bottom line is that, if you need to go about your loss and detachment with the feelings you expressed to me, then this is what you need to do and no one, least of all me, is going to try to interfere, but please don't push others, on this board in that direction. You could likely say the same to me, because I also try to guide others in a certain direction but hopefully you can appreciate the difference between our approaches. One dehumanizes and the other the opposite.

I wish you strength on the road you are about to travel. Should I still be visiting the board, at that point, I suspect and hope that you will have found a less rigid perspective.

 

[rotiroti]

... .but I do caution new members to NOT fall prey to all of the hard line negativity expressed on this board, UNLESS this is what THEY need to move forward.

Thank you for your usual thoughtful posts LimboFL. And also recognizing that there are different stages of healing as well. I noticed that there are endless posters who came and went before us. I like to think that they all found their answers and have let go of the pain with compassion -- At the end of the day pwBPD are people too and it's true that they hurt themselves the most, that has to be incredibly difficult to live with.

I would have never said this 2 months ago and I'm glad this place exists! Your post a few weeks ago about writing what you wanted to tell your BPDxw actually came at a very timely manner. I was slipping backwards on the healing and your experience helped me stay on track. I don't think I ever got to thank you for that

[LimboFL]

Thank you very much for the kind comments rotiroti. I am very happy that my experience helped you when you faced a difficult stage. It really does stink, all of this. In fact, I am pulling myself out of the family for a while because it actually has a negative impact on my moving forward. There are just too many reminders of things that I want to forget. This also stinks because I know that I can help others, but it kind of boils down to the old "take care of yourself first" adage.

You might see me around again. Either way, stay strong and thank you, again, for the kind words.

[klacey3]

Thank you very much for the kind comments rotiroti. I am very happy that my experience helped you when you faced a difficult stage. It really does stink, all of this. In fact, I am pulling myself out of the family for a while because it actually has a negative impact on my moving forward. There are just too many reminders of things that I want to forget. This also stinks because I know that I can help others, but it kind of boils down to the old "take care of yourself first" adage.

You might see me around again. Either way, stay strong and thank you, again, for the kind words.

yes limbo you have some very wise words.

Unfortunately I think I have to hate my ex right now. He is pulling on my heart strings, I feel guilty, he wants it all about him, if it isnt I receive nasty abuse and guilt trips. At the moment I cant let myself feel sorry for him because it draws me in and tempts me to respond. When I do I end up feeling sad and angry all over again.

Im sure over time I can get to the place of pure empathy and no anger.

[LimboFL]

Because I happened to check in, just in case. I want to follow this thread through.

Lacey, in no way shape or form should anyone deny their anger, ever, in these b/u. I went through so much anger and , in fact, while her creeping into my thoughts (except when I am here which is why I need a serious break) happens far less frequently, my counter EVERY TIME she I started missing her, wondering where she is, how she is etc, was to say some pretty horrible things to her, in my head. This is how I kept myself on the right track. Anger is absolutely a very necessary part of this. No matter what, we have been betrayed, extremely hurt and there is so much confusion that we are left to sort out in our own heads, with any concrete answers. Through it all though, down deep my love for her remains (even if it is impossible to ever satisfy), as does my empathy.

The clarification that I have tried to make in previous replies to this thread, have been pointed towards generalizations. We all have a right to be angry at THE INDIVIDUALS, our ex's, the ones who actually betrayed us. Just as we would to anyone else who hurt us this badly. What I abhor is when members shove all pwBPD into a bucket and speak of them like they all came out of some factory, pre programmed. This site is intended to help make sense of things and to offer solace because there are traits in common, but ultimately, each and every one of us has to do the hard work to find the uniqueness in our individual experiences and make our own determinations about the individuals who brought us all here. No one on this board knows you exBPD, nor mine. We are the ones who lived with these people and nothing and I mean nothing is going to convince me that any of us are so dim or blind that we didn't know when we were seeing the real people inside. It was just the FOG that kept us there, it was also because we saw behind the mask. In retrospect, I believe that I can identify when the person inside of my ex was there and when the other persons showed up.

So, be angry, be livid, call him every single name in the book, in your head or even to a mirror, when you are alone of course. I did. You will vacillate between feelings, you will be furious and feeling in complete control one minute and the next you will be crying. Even now, writing these words, I am feeling a little chocked up. The most important thing is to let those emotions roll out. The only control I imposed on myself was to replace longing with anger as a survival mechanism, to get out of the heart ache emotions.

This is going to be my last post for a while, because as mentioned, it is not healthy for me. With that said, please reach out to via PM, if you feel that I can help in any way. I would be happy to do so. The suicide threats etc are a component that I didn't have to live because I went strict NC and she adhered to my request. Write me anytime. If I don't hear from you, stay strong, let it all out and it will slowly get better, but only if you remain NC.

Big hug.

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