I told enDad and uBPD mom we are moving across the country...

[Depression = 72% of members]

Ok... .For those who have been following, we are moving across the country from enDad and uBPD mom... .I told them today. I basically said hubby got a great promotion but it's not here... .It's in California. And I went on to explaining that after hubby's health problems, and my issues with MS during the cold winters here, it's been very depressing and hard and we feel like we are 70, so need a new space and a fresh start... .It didn't go that bad for now... .My Dad immediately was like "that will be very very very hard for us." But he said is good for hubby. Mom said it's good for him and went on to say how it be easier for us now that we don't have the burden of them on us... .I said the main reason was health and job. She said it will be good for us, but said it would be very hard for them etc. Dad didn't refrain from throwing on the guilt with "daughters are supposed to take care of parents and move to be closer to them. Sons are not reliable." Because I said at least my brother and wife were close. Also kept saying how sad he will be over and over... .

I can honestly say I felt horrible sadness and guilt telling them. I fee horrible guilt moving so far. In these moments I forget what terrible things they have done to me. I just felt sadness and guilt for taking their only grandchild away... . ugh... .I hope I am doing the right thing. I truly do. I just didn't know what else to do... I haven't been able to go NC and I have always dangled between my husband and my parents and I am tired. I needed to be on one side to figure my life out. I know right now they were not too bad but in the next two months before I move there will be outbursts to make me feel immense guilt. Funny thing is my dad is like we didn't give you any stress. That was old stuff! Ugh... .

[MiserableDaughter]

Ok... .For those who have been following, we are moving across the country from enDad and uBPD mom... .I told them today. I basically said hubby got a great promotion but it's not here... .It's in California. And I went on to explaining that after hubby's health problems, and my issues with MS during the cold winters here, it's been very depressing and hard and we feel like we are 70, so need a new space and a fresh start... .It didn't go that bad for now... .My Dad immediately was like "that will be very very very hard for us." But he said is good for hubby. Mom said it's good for him and went on to say how it be easier for us now that we don't have the burden of them on us... .I said the main reason was health and job. She said it will be good for us, but said it would be very hard for them etc. Dad didn't refrain from throwing on the guilt with "daughters are supposed to take care of parents and move to be closer to them. Sons are not reliable." Because I said at least my brother and wife were close. Also kept saying how sad he will be over and over... .

I can honestly say I felt horrible sadness and guilt telling them. I fee horrible guilt moving so far. In these moments I forget what terrible things they have done to me. I just felt sadness and guilt for taking their only grandchild away... . ugh... .I hope I am doing the right thing. I truly do. I just didn't know what else to do... I haven't been able to go NC and I have always dangled between my husband and my parents and I am tired. I needed to be on one side to figure my life out. I know right now they were not too bad but in the next two months before I move there will be outbursts to make me feel immense guilt. Funny thing is my dad is like we didn't give you any stress. That was old stuff! Ugh... .

[Kwamina]

Hi MiserableDaughter

I can imagine how difficult it must have been for you delivering this message. Your parents behavior has over the years taken it's toll on you, on your health and your relationship with your husband. Taking all this into account, I understand why you would feel the strong need to take drastic actions to protect your own well-being.

Moving so far away from your parents still isn't an easy thing to do though and I see that they were already applying the 'O' and 'G' part from the FOG on you. I think you're right that it's safe to assume more is to follow. In times like this it helps to be prepared so I think now might be a good time to take a look again at some of the resources we have on here. I've selected a few that I think can be particularly helpful for you now:

Fear, Obligation and Guilt (FOG): How We Allow Loved Ones To Control Us

Getting Our Values and Boundaries in Order

Triggering and Mindfulness and Wise Mind

[keldubs78]

I'm sorry that telling them triggered negative feelings for you and made you question the move.  It seems like maybe you were hopeful that they wouldn't respond in the way that they did and now that they didn't, you are dragged down into FOG (Fear, Obligation, Guilt).  I completely understand.  I often ask myself after my mom behaves in a certain way, why I expected or hoped anything different but somehow, there is still a level of almost surprise that I'm thrown right back into the FOG.  

My suggestion is to get through the next two months as best as you can with the knowledge that you are making an adult decision for the sake of your marriage and your family.  It sometimes helps me to imagine what would a normal mother do in this situation?  For example, in your case, how would a "normal" non-BPD parent react to hearing that their adult, married daughter with a child was moving across the country?  Would they be upset and sad at their daughter and grandchild moving so far?  Probably.  Would they say something like,"daughters are supposed to take care of parents and move to be closer to them. Sons are not reliable?"  No.  That is not fair to you to say that and that is a form of emotional abuse.  Parents bring their children into the world and they are supposed to want what's best for them.  They are supposed to be supportive when their adult children need to make tough adult decisions like moving across the country for a job.  Your mother's comment about how it would be good because then they won't be a burden on you anymoer is also a form of trying to induce guilt in you (another form of emotional abuse).  My mom would have probably said that exact same thing, by the way.  Then if I told her it wasn't a fair thing to say she would claim she WAS being supportive and saying the move was a GOOD thing even though you know what she said was anything but supportive.  That is why this disorder is so incredibly frustrating.  Their behaviors, comments, body language can all be so insidious.  My mother is so good at carefully creating havoc in a way that is extremely upsetting yet somehow it's hard to call her on it.  She RARELY makes a big scene or does something that objectively would be considered grounds for going NC (I know you aren't going NC.  Just using it as an example of how things get to that extreme sometimes).  It's been a lifetime of small behaviors and actions that eat away at us, the victims and they are standing in the middle of the storm THEY created looking at us like we are the crazy, oversensitive, ridiculous children who don't appreciate all the nice things they have done.  It's almost enough to make US crazy.  

I wish you the best in your move and really hope the physical distance will give you some peace.  As I said in one of your previous posts, even with the distance, I would think strongly about setting some communication boundaries as well - a set phone call once a week, etc.  Otherwise, in my experience, they can abuse you through text, email, phone just as easily as they can in person.  

[littlebirdcline]

If they are anything like my uBPDmom and endad, you are correct that there will be outbursts before you leave.  My mother is notorious for have one reaction to a situation, and then a few days, weeks, months, years, later having a completely opposite reaction.  And then flipping back again.  I understand the guilt, I feel it too.  My brother is a little resentful of me going NC because he thinks he will have to be the sole caretaker for them later on.  But I have come to believe that just because someone gave birth to you doesn't give them the right to drive you insane and abuse you for your entire life.  You are entitled to be happy, even if she isn't.  You can't make her happy- it's not your job.  It's her job to make herself happy, and if she chooses not to do it, that's her problem.  If you think this will help you and your husband, and minimize inappropriate contact with your child, then, by all means, do it.  Don't let you guilt control you- she installed it against your will.

[MiserableDaughter]

Thank you. I am feeling somewhat better today and more free. I woke up feeling like wait a minute... .They have forever made me their punching bag. And they just expected me to stay around forever being punched? I mean yesterday, they said even seeing grandson every two weeks was enough for them... Funny, cause every weekend all I hear is "We just need to kill time... .Everyone else is busy with their grandkids and kids. We are the only ones who are alone." So why should I feel guilty? Nothing I did was enough. They were miserable with me around too... .So whats the difference?

[Kwamina]

Hi again MiserableDaughter

So why should I feel guilty? Nothing I did was enough. They were miserable with me around too... .So whats the difference?

You make a good point here. Not only are you not responsible for the way your parents feel, but no matter what you do you can't make them feel happy if they are for whatever reason insistent on remaining unhappy. Perhaps because they are unable to change, perhaps because they are unwilling to change, either way it lies not within your power to make them happy, nor are you the source of their projected unhappiness.

[MiserableDaughter]

So today brought all the tears, blaming etc. My mom started crying that her and my dad hadn't slept a wink and were just crying and crying... .And the whole, we aren't attached to your brother. We are attached to YOU! And Grandson! How will we see him? How wil we survive? If you had left when you got married would be different! We are getting old and now we will be alone. Daughters are not sons. They take care of their parents ! Omg... .The guilt... .I woke up strong but was again dragged down... .I said you have friends too! She says, you only want to meet your friends when you are happy. Now we aren't happy. So this made me so mad cause usually it's "we hang out with friends because our kids don't meet us in the weekends so we have no choice."

Ugh... .Feeling the weight of the world on me right now... .

[Harri]

Hi MD.  I am sorry they are doing this but I am not surprised.  I am sure you are not either.   

Can you see how when you are in their game, you are in a no win position?  They have set you up to lose no matter what you do.  You have spent your lifetime playing their game by their rules... .and it is a total mind game. 

Feel guilty if you must, it will pass.  Feel pulled to appease and rescue them.  It will pass.  Feelings just are and you do not need to act on them.  Yes, it is hard and difficult.  It is even more difficult because you are trying to change lifelong patterns of your own behavior while in the midst of all these tough feelings.  You will feel what you feel.  Remind yourself that you have spent your life trying to make them happy and please them and your husband and it has not worked.  Not once.  You have not avoided manipulations longterm.  You have not avoided FOG.  You may have managed temporarily to do these things, but is temporary really worth it?  Sacrificing the rest of your life for crumbs of their approval and they even begrudge you that much?

Change it up MD.  Tell them to stop.  Heck, tell them to shut up.  Ask them nicely and say please if you feel better with that, but speak your truth.

You can't fix and save them all MD.  It is going to be hard enough to fix and save yourself.

You now know for sure you are in for a rough 2 months.  What can you plan to say or do the next time they pull this stuff?  You know they will do it again and again.  They won't change until you change... .and it will take time.  so lets anticipate and plan, okay?

[GaGrl]

Can you move earlier than two months?

[MiserableDaughter]

I can move earlier if our house rents out quicker. Yes, these crying episodes will come again and again. I wouldn't tell my kid, we didn't sleep all night because of this... Even if I didn't sleep, I wouldn't bring him down... .And why do daughters have all responsibility ? Does that mean my brother gets away without any crap, only cause I've been here to take it? I nicely said that this will be good for my health and for hubby's future! And she's like we aren't stopping you! But it's super hard for us... .I don't know how we will survive. Funny cause NOW she says " md, you have always taken care of us." Where was that earlier? I was only compared to other "good daughters." Now that I may be leaving suddenly she says you've taken care of us? Argh! Her voice sounded like someone died... .was awful... .Yes, no win situation. You are right. They haven't been happy and neither has my husband. I've just tried and tried and I've gotten lost in between... .Dreading listening to all this... I raised myself up this morning and was even feeling better and more free and powerful. The guilt pulled me down again... .

[MiserableDaughter]

Also I want to say thank you for your support, guys! I truly appreciate it! It's really helping me through this!

[lucylou]

Wow you are doing so brilliantly Miserable daughter amidst all the pressure and tantrums. I am with you holding your hand just wanted you to know that . We all know it is coming when we dare to take something for ourselves, the tears,the tantrums and I guess next will be the ugly stuff. Its all so predictable but that's good because you can be prepared, you know the moves and it might help you know where she will strike next.  It takes great strength,determination and courage to stand firm and you are doing it. You are slowly inching your way towards the exit so to speak like Jim Carey in "The Truman Show"  . That thought just popped into my head, what a great movie         

Sending you strength and courage 

[pessim-optimist]

Hello MD,

As you are getting ready to move, your parents' abandonment fears are getting triggered, and hence you are being guilted, FOGged and pulled back (at least emotionally)... .

One of your biggest weapons in this might be counter-intuitive: Validation. (basically understanding, and agreeing with another person's feelings without necessarily agreeing with what they are saying). By doing that, you will be able to side-step some potential time-bombs and fights and get out of having to defend yourself against their irrational accusations/demands that are likely to crop up.

If you haven't had a chance to look at it yet, here is a good Workshop on the same topic, that might be helpful:

https://bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-dont-be-invalidating

And there is also a great book that deals with this:

I Don't Have To Make Everything All Better

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=128027.0

MD, you have your own life, and you do not have to make everything all better for your parents.

Validation - acknowledging their feelings (without jumping to rescue them from their feelings) might help you get out of the push-pull cycle you've been subjected to your whole life.

[MiserableDaughter]

I was with close friends last night and who know my history and everyone is saying you are doing the right thing and you HAVE to protect your son... .I believe them but yet the guilt is overwhelming. So overwhelming. I keep asking myself could I have done it differently? Could I have ignored my mom more? Is she really so bad? My brain is going crazy. And then in my brain I have honed in on my problem... .Where I am now, I cannot make my husband happy or my parents happy. I ant give either what they want. My husband wants NC and to tell her off. My parents want more time with my son and especially alone time with him. I'm always fighting. I'm always fending off. That's my life. And I'm drowning. I find moments of peace and happiness... .Friends, work, my son. But I'm unhappy because I am caught. So then why so much guilt? Taking away their grandson, that's why. Her behaviors with him are scary and will only get more obsessive as he gets older. She's turning him into her life support. She's turned a 3 year old into an adult in her mind. She's offended and hurt when he doesn't run to her instead of me, his mother. But yet I'm guilty. I'm feeling the weight of the world on me. I'm feeling like I'm an awful person. Like I'm ruining their old age. But yet they destroyed my youth and marriage and never even acknowledged it... .I feel like I'm gonna lose my mind... .And I'm angry cause my husband didn't ask me if I want to move to CA! He just talked to his boss immediately and said "want to move to CA?" I didn't want to move there. I wanted to stay on the east coast but far enough to get space... .I need some sense knocked into me but I'm so messed up... .

[littlebirdcline]

What Harri said about feelings is so true.  The thing that drives me most crazy about my mother is that she believes if she feels it, it must be true.  No matter how crazy, no matter how much you argue, if she feels it is true, it must be.  But feelings are not facts.  I find myself reacting that way often- and having to remind myself that just because I feel guilty or sad or like I'm a horrible daughter, doesn't mean it's true.  Then I get angry because she's the one who taught me to react that way.  Stay strong!

[Harri]

Then I get angry because she's the one who taught me to react that way.

This line I copied from littlebirdcline's post is so true.  MD, everything you are feeling right now is the result of your raising you to be their caretakers.  It is a despicable thing to do to a child.

I feel like I'm gonna lose my mind.

MD, what you are feeling is normal.  You are not losing your mind; you're finding it.    

It may feel otherwise, but these feelings are normal and to be expected.  You are breaking out of old patterns and your old role and making way for a new you.  Of course you are going to feel guilt and anxiety.  This is going to feel uncomfortable for a while because everything is new to you.  It will get easier, but it is going to take time.  Like everything else we try that is new, it is going to be uncomfortable and awkward and painful but you will get through it.

Keep posting here.  I actually think you are doing very well with a rough situation.  I also like what Pessim-O wrote about validation as a possible tool.  

[MiserableDaughter]

Thank you. On top of all this my husband asked what's wrong? I tried to say just regular anxiety about a big move. He didn't buy it. When I told him about my struggle, he flipped, I explained that I was trying to break out of the FOG but he says that's all psycho babble. Said I am always in a depressed vortex and suck him in, I was just trying to explain my feelings since he asked... told me I'm ruining this move, said its what u have wanted all along and your ruining it. He's never understood my struggle, always called me crazy. Has never bothered to read up on BPD or adult children who are survivors. Never. Just has called me crazy and stupid for my anxiety guilt etc. it's al just getting worse.

[Harri]

Hi MD.  I can understand a certain amount of frustration from your husband, but as you describe it, his seems over the top.  He either blames you or your parents 100% and does not seem to see that he too played into the whole dynamic.  He too could have spoken up to protect you and your son and himself from the craziness.  He made choices too.  He seems not to see that.  He gets to be responsible for his choices and actions (or inaction in this case). 

I don't really have advice.  I've never been married and the one relationship I had was not healthy at all.  I do think it is vital to see your T and friends as much as you can prior to the move to help you sort through the feelings and to get some much needed support.  I think too that using the validation tool as suggested by pessim-o would also help with your husband.  What do you think?   

So much is coming up for you right now... .and at you too.  It is the times like these where you will see the weaknesses (and strengths) in the people around you.  You can't change your husband, nor can you make him feel happy.  Chances are he is going to be like this for a while, even after the move.  Are you prepared to deal with that?  Would he ever consider couples counseling?

[MiserableDaughter]

Well, my husband has wanted to try to do something but I haven't let him... .When he's said something to her, her rage hits the peak and I deal with the aftermath. So I've told him there is no point in confronting her... I'm trying to turn off my guilt switch. I explained to my Havana that this is the first time I've ever done anything completely for me. I've never done it. I've always thought of my parents first and my husband... .First time I feel selfish... .And I don't know how to deal with the guilt of it... .

[Harri]

Okay, then let's break this down into more manageable bits.  What exactly are you feeling guilty about in terms of your parents?  Husband?  Son?  

There is warranted and unwarranted guilt.  I have a feeling that the majority of the guilt you are feeling is unwarranted, the result of a lifetime of conditioning that has you ignoring your own needs and wants to detrimental levels and has you taking responsibility for people who should be taking care of themselves.  

Unwarranted guilt can be seen as a boundary issue.  So lets look at the questions I asked above in terms of learning where your own internal boundaries are.  Get specific about your guilt and then identify which are warranted and unwarranted.  Identify what specifics are a result of poor internal boundaries.  Post it if you want and we can give you input.

Some things to think about in terms of guilt (I did a quick google search on unwarranted guilt and came across several articles that were very good to read):

 * Your sense of guilt does not serve as evidence of truth (a re-wording of the feelings are not facts concept talked frequently discussed here)

 * Guilt is a control mechanism (In your case, one that your parents programmed into you)

 * Guilt is a weapon but it is also a cage

MD, what you are doing and what you did telling your parents took a lot of strength and courage.  You may not see it, but we can.  Regardless of what you decide or how this all plays out, you can get through this for you.  

[MiserableDaughter]

Thanks, Harri! Are you a therapist? Cause you are very very intuitive and helpful! So my guilt... .In the moving situation... .

- for my son, none, except the guilt of not being fully mentally healthy. I am my healthiest with him and make sure to be all present with him, let him express himself, give him lots of love, and allow him to make choices at age3. So I think this is one area of my life I'm doing very well in... .The mom role.

- husband; I feel guilty for never being all there. I've always gone through feelings of depression, panic, hopelessness, abs detachment, because of the roller coaster my mom has put me on (and the one I'm used to being on.) I feel guilty for never truly being happy. My husband has tried and the things that would make another girl happy (nice new house, cars etc) has never made me happy. I've still felt empty and unsafe. I've been forever trying to identify this source of emptiness and feeling unsafe. I think it's that I'm just waiting for the other shoe to drop as it always has in my life... .Never knew what would upset my mom. No stability... That's why I've always pushed my husband to move... .Breathing room. And I feel guilty that now that he's gotten us to move (after 10 years of my begging) I feel too bogged down by FOG to enjoy it!

- my parents... Massive massive guilty... .For moving across the country and taking away my 3 year old... .My moms only reason to live as she says.,. Taking away the time they do have together even though it annoys me... .Changing the entire dynamic of what they imagined their golden years to be. And yes all they've done is complain even when I've been here whole life. I feel like I've been selfish, betrayed them, and broken their hearts. In this situation I keep having to go bs k to my old posts on this board (69 pages since 2006!)to remind myself what brought me to this point...

[Harri]

   No, I am not a therapist.  I'm just another person here who played the role assigned to me by my parents until I was about 38-39 years old.  When I broke away, I had my career, a desk, a lamp, a bed and not much else.  No real life of my own and I had no idea of how to live for me.  I am still trying to figure things out a decade later.     I know what it is like to sacrifice myself because it is easier than fighting.  I know what it is like to sacrifice myself in unspeakable ways just to give someone else a little bit of comfort and happiness.  And I know what it is like to feel so bogged down and lost and scared that I gave up and lost decades of opportunity to live life. 

- for my son, none, except the guilt of not being fully mentally healthy. I am my healthiest with him and make sure to be all present with him, let him express himself, give him lots of love, and allow him to make choices at age3. So I think this is one area of my life I'm doing very well in... .The mom role.

Well done MD!  As for not being fully mentally healthy, well, who is really, but I do understand what you mean here.  You were doing what you were raised to do.  Now you know better so you are making different choices.  Nothing to warrant guilt.  The thing to focus on are the choices you make from this day forward. 

This situation with the move and how your parents are reacting will be a huge help in learning to break through the walls you have around you and your life.  As hard as this is, think of it as an opportunity not just for freedom to live your life and a necessary step towards being "fully mentally healthy"  but also as a wonderful learning opportunity that will help you to teach your son and as practice for the work you have to do with your marriage.  Reframe the way you are looking at this situation.  Yes, it is hard and difficult and painful... .but it is a great opportunity as well.  Learning to work through all the feelings and to set boundaries while interacting with your parents is a huge undertaking but the rewards are great.  Just make sure you do not define "success" in terms of their reactions to what you say and do.  In their game, there is no real winner.  Change your role and redefine what it means to win for you (mental health, autonomy, freedom, etc).  Kwamina gave you links to some wonderful articles earlier in this thread.  Read them over and over and think of ways they apply to your situation.  I would also suggest reading up on the Karpman Triangle here: Escaping Conflict and the Karpman Drama Triangle

- husband; I feel guilty for never being all there. I've always gone through feelings of depression, panic, hopelessness, abs detachment, because of the roller coaster my mom has put me on (and the one I'm used to being on.) I feel guilty for never truly being happy. My husband has tried and the things that would make another girl happy (nice new house, cars etc) has never made me happy. I've still felt empty and unsafe. I've been forever trying to identify this source of emptiness and feeling unsafe. I think it's that I'm just waiting for the other shoe to drop as it always has in my life... .Never knew what would upset my mom. No stability... That's why I've always pushed my husband to move... .Breathing room. And I feel guilty that now that he's gotten us to move (after 10 years of my begging) I feel too bogged down by FOG to enjoy it!

"I feel guilty for never truly being happy."  I think this would be categorized as unwarranted guilt.     What do you think?  I'd say of course you have never felt happy!  You have never been allowed to live your life, learned how to take care of yourself, etc.  I would bet you have never experienced true acceptance for just being you by either of your parents.  Never been taught that mistakes are okay to make and it is not selfish to put yourself and your needs first sometimes.  Right?  For me, being accepted and understood are what make me feel loved and welcome in someone else's life.  As much as I would like to have money and a cool car and nice house, I long for acceptance and understanding more.

Regarding your husband, remember, I have never had one so take what I say with that in mind please.     If he did not realize what type of in-laws he was going to be getting and did not see how you interacted with them before you married, then he was not paying attention!    Is he to be blamed for that?  No, but he too has had a role in this.

I think there is some warranted guilt in here in terms of you not putting your marriage and husband first.  Again, you were following a role assigned to you and doing what you knew to do so I am not saying this in a blaming way, but there is a certain amount of responsibility on you for the choices you made here.  I also know you already know that!  The good news is, you are on your way to change!   

And I feel guilty that now that he's gotten us to move (after 10 years of my begging) I feel too bogged down by FOG to enjoy it!

Ummm... .yeah.  There is a bit (!) of insanity in here ya know!     I've been in your shoes before but also in your husbands too.  I think at this point in terms of where he is emotionally, it may be a bit too much to ask him to understand and or support your feelings.  I do not know what is reasonable to expect from a husband in a situation like this.  I am hoping someone else will step in and comment on at least this part.  What I do know is that he feels what he feels just like you do and there is no right or wrong.  Validation, as mentioned earlier by pessim-optimist is I think warranted here.  What do you think?

- my parents... Massive massive guilty... .For moving across the country and taking away my 3 year old... .My moms only reason to live as she says.,. Taking away the time they do have together even though it annoys me... .Changing the entire dynamic of what they imagined their golden years to be. And yes all they've done is complain even when I've been here whole life. I feel like I've been selfish, betrayed them, and broken their hearts. In this situation I keep having to go bs k to my old posts on this board (69 pages since 2006!)to remind myself what brought me to this point...

UNWARRANTED... .all of it.  Keep re-reading your old posts.  They will give you clarity through the FOG.  Keep posting here.  So many people are supporting you and can relate.  You are not their keeper.  You are not responsible for their poor choices.  You are not responsible for giving your mother the motivation to live (what the heck is up with that?). 

Remember, your feelings just are.  There is no right or wrong.  There is no place for judgements like "I should not be feeling this way".  Unwarranted does not equal wrong.  Your feelings just are. 

MD, I am way out of my depth on this one and find myself working through this guilt crap as I talk with you so see if what I have have said makes sense and feels right for you. 

[Kwamina]

Thanks, Harri! Are you a therapist? Cause you are very very intuitive and helpful!

 No, I am not a therapist.

Well you could have fooled me Harri!

I think at this point in terms of where he is emotionally, it may be a bit too much to ask him to understand and or support your feelings.  I do not know what is reasonable to expect from a husband in a situation like this.  I am hoping someone else will step in and comment on at least this part.  What I do know is that he feels what he feels just like you do and there is no right or wrong.  Validation, as mentioned earlier by pessim-optimist is I think warranted here.  What do you think?

Remember, your feelings just are.  There is no right or wrong.  There is no place for judgements like "I should not be feeling this way".  Unwarranted does not equal wrong.  Your feelings just are.  

MiserableDaughter, I think Harri has made some massively important comments here about feelings in general, your feelings, your husband's and even your parents' feelings. When thinking about or discussing feelings I often think about this passage from one of our workshops which I think is very helpful to keep in mind:

Telling a person she shouldn't feel the way she does feel is akin to telling water it shouldn't be wet, grass it shouldn't be green, or rocks they shouldn't be hard. Each person's feelings are real. Whether we like or understand someone's feelings, they are still real. Rejecting feelings is rejecting reality; it is to fight nature... .Considering that trying to fight feelings, rather than accept them, is trying to fight all of nature, you can see why it is so frustrating, draining and futile.

I think what is said here is very important for respecting the other person's feelings and also for respecting your own feelings and for helping you determine what you deem to be a respectful treatment of your own feelings by others.

Regardless of who is right or wrong, I agree with Harri that the communication techniques described on this website can also help with your husband. I'm too thinking of validation as also mentioned to you by pessim-optimist and also things we can do ourselves to end the cycle of conflict. Here are some links to some useful communication techniques:

Communication Skills - Validation

COMMUNICATION: Validation - stop invalidating others

Ending the Cycle of Conflict

S.E.T. - Support, Empathy and Truth

Having said all of this, I do want to say that I find your husband calling you crazy and stupid is hurtful, invalidating and quite frankly not acceptable. Perhaps he says these kind of things in the heat of the moment, but I hope he too will be able to calm down and that you'll be able to have some good and constructive conversations with each other. The communication techniques described here can help you with this I think.

Take care

[MiserableDaughter]

Thank you so much. Yesterday, my therapist said something which really struck me. She said you have serious PTSD. You cannot heal around the source of the trauma (mom.) I never believed I had PTSD or from what I read, C-PTSD... .But when I read the symptoms yes for sure... .And I admit I've always been suicidal. I always have felt of I had the option to end my life in front of me or not, I'd end it. Now I say no I can't because of my son. I guess I've blamed myself for having PTSD... .Like maybe I overreacted... .But I don't know that I did. My mothers rages from as recent as a few months ago make me shudder and have nightmares. Cry and feel helpless. So I'm realizing that I can't heal unless the source of trauma is removed. That's why I've always felt safer when far away. The source of trauma feels far away... .So I need this distance to heal myself for my child more than anything... .Doing a lot of self analysis this week. My husband is away. I think

I also feel better when I'm isolated. Meaning when my husband is away (he's not judging my moods, reactions etc.) and when I don't speak to my mother. I'm in my best place then. Close to happiness. Just me and my boy doing fun stuff. I think I've felt invalidated by my husband but as my therapist says he's not a mental health professional so he won't get it... .

[Sunfl0wer]

Hi MD,

I had to chime in as this made so much sense to me:

You cannot heal around the source of the trauma (mom.)

I can 100% attest to this!

The first year after moving out of my home was a year of rapid growth and healing for me.  My c-PTSD symptoms greatly diminished each year following me putting more emotional distance between my FOO and myself.

Looking back, I can see how reengaging with my FOO even in controlled, limited ways, was still a bit like pulling back a scab to watch it bleed, and never allowing the original wound time to heal.

At the time, it did not feel at all like a "re bleeding" to me.

It felt, "normal."

The space helped me to unlearn that false "normal." 

And it gave me room for a new healthier definition.

This all kind of happened unintentionally and naturally.  I did not realize or have awareness of the healing I was setting myself up for by separating and moving out of my moms house.  It just kinda came to me as a result, and I felt this weight lift and lift and lift.

[MiserableDaughter]

I'm sort of really seeing that for so many years, I've wanted to move. I've begged my husband saying that If we wanted to save our marriage, we needed to be far away. Now when I'm analyzing this, moving wasn't to save my marriage. It was to heal myself. If I will heal, I can put in my best efforts of healing my marriage. Otherwise it's just an act from my side. Trying to "act" happy when I'm actually not. I'm always on a roller coaster. Some days are good days. Other days are terrible. But i know that whenever anyone says "I'm so sorry. You should have had a mother who could really love YOU," I cry. It makes me just tear up. Why? When someone says "you should have had a childhood... ." I cry. The only thing that's making me sad about moving is that my brother and new sister in law now live closer to me, so I'll miss getting a chance to hang out with them. But then they will likely move away in next year too, especially if mom keeps up her behavior... .I don't know if having a supportive family member around like my new sis in law would help, but then I don't want to make her my therapist either... .

[Harri]

Hi MD.  I so glad you saw your T and can see how the c-PTSD diagnosis does fit.  Our minds can play games with us trying to convince us that things were not that bad.  But they were that bad and still are in your case.  It has often been said that it is the emotional abuse and head games that are so damaging and you life has been full of those.  Have you read about emotional incest and parentification?

Will your T be able to give you a referral to a counselor in your new city?

You said you are wondering if having a supportive family member around would help.  IMO, it usually makes things worse or at the very least, more complicated.  While I hope your mother will stop acting in her usual way and not pull the same with your SIL and brother, chances are she will continue with the same old.  She is who she is.  The best you can do is to work on detaching, setting boundaries and healing yourself.  If your SIL and brother turn to you for help, you can guide them to various resources and offer support too.

Are you starting to feel a bit more comfortable with the move?  Excited even?

[MiserableDaughter]

Thank you. Yeah a little excited... .But still a bit sad too. Great friends, great job etc... .But this is necessary for me I think. I'm moving from Boston to San Fran. So it's a great city too! But then after healing more maybe will come back. Who knows? I need to feel like an adult. Feel like I never have. My mom has never wanted me to grow up and my husband has only looked at me through the crap tinted lens of how I interact with my mother. So I need space to heal both of those things. If my husband looks at me through that forever, then there is a problem there. But I won't know until I really try... .