POLL: My BPD detector went off today... interested in comments on my reaction

[byfaith]

It's $30.  

In my higher self,  I'd return the $30 and apologize that I was not aware the brakes were faulty, I would empathize/validate her  b/c it involves her children's safety and so of course she is going to be upset and it's understandable... .and be done with it.

In my reactionary self... .I'd have said something in a what the heck tone like... ." I didn't know the brakes were bad, it worked fine for us, I'm sorry, calm down!  here's your $30 back... .Geesh!"

I don't think I would have demanded an apology from her for speaking to me as though I'm a bad person.  Who cares if she assumes your a bad person?  She doesn't know you.  Also... .It's possible I COULD be a BAD PERSON... .again she doesn't know you.  

I am only human, I sometime actually do do BAD or insensitve things. I'm not perfect.  Nor is she.  I'm not normally THAT attached to being seen as without fault especially by a stranger who is clearly flipped out.  If I am feeling attached to that... .it would be interesting to explore why, but only if it was really bugging me.

bah... .Life is too short.


 

spot on!

[formflier]

FWIW, I also do not believe that BOTH the hand brake AND the foot brake (as they are not connected to each other) were broken when you sold it. They are specifically NOT connected to each other so if one breaks, the other might still work. You know this.

Yep... .

Theoretically... .what she says could have happened... .

But... .likelihood is very... .very low. 

Plus... .my remembrance is that there is an independent foot brake on each back wheel... and those two are not connected...

While she didn't go into that level of detail... .I guess she is actually alleging that three brake systems are not working... .hand brake... and two foot brakes.

FF

[formflier]

They are used to doing that because, as notwendy says, in the customer service world, it doesn't matter if the customer is a jerk, the customer is always right.

Interesting... .I'm an executive type... .although admittedly not in the retail side of things.  I've been interviewing a lot lately and a common question is about customer service.  My answer is that educating the customer is critical... .that your organization is in charge of setting expectations to live up to... .not the customer.

An organization that tries to live up to the expectations of the general public... is going to chase a lot of weird ideas... .and get off "mission"... .get off focus. 

My experience... .and my "rule" is that you can educate and get about 90% of your customers to be reasonable and happy... .the other 10%... .will be unreasonable... .and should be ignored. 

So... I don't ascribe to customer always right.  There are companies out there and executives that do... .but generally... .I think the count it as a cost of doing business.

Just my 2 cents worth on that... .

FF

[123Phoebe]

FF, about the apology you wanted... .

What is it that she could've said to make you actually believe the apology?  :)oes a sincere apology matter or is it the act of apologizing, or?

"I'm very sorry for casting aspersions on your character"... .?

I mean, isn't that pretty clearly placing her in a submissive role, a place where you in no way shape or form are willing to go?  You've said, you will NOT back down.

What exactly are your values here?

[formflier]

 

Hmm... .how do I explain this... .? 

If a person is going to bad mouth me... .then... .my interactions with them are done... .I'm not going to persecute them... pursue them or any of that... .but... .the r/s (so to speak) has been damaged by their actions (words) and I'm offering a pathway to restore that.

It's not about submission... authority or any of that.  It's about my character... .if people malign it... .I don't have dealings with them.

I used the word sincere to let her know that just the words don't matter... .attitude matters.  It's hard to write down or explain... .but... .I've had people be sincere with me... .and I've had people mouth words that it appeared to me they didn't mean.

IN writing... I guess I could express it this way... .

"Since the only way I can get my money back is to apologize... .fine... .then I apologize... .now where is my money... "  (my BS detector would go off... )

"Hey... .listen... I was having a bad day... I said some things to you that I wish I hadn't... .I apologize... "  (good to go... .) 

Does this help explain? 

FF

[formflier]

 You've said, you will NOT back down.

Yeah... I guess that could be misinterpreted. 

So... if someone is untrustworthy... or maligns me... .or displays other traits that would make me want to cease having things to do with them... .I cease.  I guess that is a better way of explaining not backing down.

I'm also... obviously a very direct and to the point guy... .

BLUF is my favorite acronym... .Bottom Line Up Front... .

Don't beat around the bush. 

So... I let a person know why I'm ceasing whatever it is... .or the pathway to heal it... .and then what they do with it is up to them.

I'm not like walking around in a funk because of this... .because my honor was impugned... .

Hmm... .somehow I don't think I'm explaining this very well. 

FF

[123Phoebe]

IN writing... I guess I could express it this way... .

"Since the only way I can get my money back is to apologize... .fine... .then I apologize... .now where is my money... "  (my BS detector would go off... )

"Hey... .listen... I was having a bad day... I said some things to you that I wish I hadn't... .I apologize... "  (good to go... .)  

Does this help explain?  

FF

It explains the difference between what being on the receiving end of a BS apology or a sincere apology feels like, yes.

It's not about submission... authority or any of that.  It's about my character... .if people malign it... .I don't have dealings with them.

Had she given you the BS apology, would you have not accepted it because it didn't feel sincere enough to you, so still no $ back?

[Cat Familiar]

I admire you ff for being a steadfast guy, a good dad and a great advisor on this board. I see that you've made incredible progress in dealing with your wife and through reading some of your posts, I would say that you have the patience of a saint.

That said, it really surprises me that you took such a hardline stance against the stroller woman, who you feel insulted your honor. I think that is why I'm still pestering you to look at your response to her.

You've got a great new job to look forward to. I think this would be an ideal time to reflect upon some of the comments you've received and see what you can glean from them.

I believe a function of these boards is that we can be mirrors for others. And no one can see himself from all sides. Just isn't possible.

I would hope that you would reread some of these posts because there's a lot of love and affection and concern for you within our words.

It's one thing to stand up for yourself, but to do that without letting in conflicting information, seems like you're missing an opportunity to see yourself from others' perspectives. Several of us have been quite disconcerted by your attitude. Perhaps it's worth looking at that.

[fiveplus]

   Formflier,  When I learned that my husband was BPD, and even for YEARS afterward, I wanted to do and learn everything I could to help us deal with HIS behavior.

I talked to counselors. I told them the truth... that HIS behavior was killing our marriage, that HIS behavior was unhealthy for the kids and for us. And I when they asked me what I was

contributing to this unhealthy situation, I admitted that I was also responsible for letting it happen, for not taking a stand and for letting not setting boundaries.

But in MY head, HE was the one with the problem and I was able to (lovingly of course) smuggly watch from a distance while he, and those OTHER people with problems , struggled,

failed, struggled some more, made mistakes (which I lovingly pointed out and offered to help them with). All the while I was patting myself for becoming a better person, having a REAL

grasp on this BPD thing, identifying other BPD's around me and USING those tools.

    I love my husband, and my kids and , according to friends and family, I'm a genuinely kind , loving person.  I work hard, I love helping people, my kids are my life.  I was not

consciously viewing the world from the cheap seats and judging accordingly.  It was just way safer to BE the one passing out tickets than to ever admit that I honestly was just as

messed up as everyone else.  We ALL have our disorders... .whatever it is... .we're afraid to admit we're wrong, of being humiliated, of being alone, of not being good enough. The people

who look like they have it all together... .they don't... .not totally. Nobody does.

    You give a lot of good advice on these pages to others... .people who are reaching out and hurting.  A great person once said, "The healthy person is not one who is able to love others.

The healthy person is the one who can let someone else love them."

    Or in this case,"The healthy person is not the one who can GIVE advise. The healthy person is someone who can take advice from others". 

[Yolo]

Fascinating post... .thank you Formflier

I haven't had a chance to read through the continuation threads... .but at first blush...

I think it may have ended at NotWendy post #38.

Woman [paraphrased for rudeness]:  "All the breaks are broken, you jerk, you sold me a piece of equipment that could have put my babies in jeopardy!".  

FF [ alternate response]:  "My apologies. Everything was in fine working order the last time I used the stroller. Shall we set a time for the refund and exchange of the stroller?  ".

You are speaking the truth... everything was working fine the last time you personally used it.  And you are sorry if it was in fact not working properly.  

How do we disarm?  Kindness and 'understanding' sometimes when we are seething, yes... .but wow how potent *gentle* can be.

As NotWendy indicated, I think there may have been a big chance that woman would have issued an apology unsolicited.

What good is a forced or... .lead apology anyway?  That is not even genuine... you may as well just give the money back.

She was offensive for sure, her initial text would put anyone on the defense.  But your good name can not be forced on anyone, it has to be shown through noble action.  You weren't aware of any defect and will readily return funds if the item wasn't in the condition advertised.  She can and will think what she wants, but you can't control that, and you certainly won't win points by treating her like a child and suggesting that she think about her wording more carefully and apologize to you.  Come on, FF, would you do that?... ."Yes, I agree, I don't want to put any child in harms way if that is the case, I'll give you your money back... .BUT FIRST, you need to apologize to me for thinking I'm just a run of the mill hoodlum".  She has no idea of your background, and unfortunately as statistics have it, there are a lot of unsavory folks in the world.

I believe this other person was not personality afflicted, just taken advantage of a few too many times and easy to tip off.

Action... .showing who you are... .that is the real deal, right?  This seems like an opportunity to 'show' who you are versus 'tell' who you are and then 'expect' her to follow the protocol.

Both of you could have approached things differently.  

I think those of us who have been in/ live in "different" high conflict arrangements, we have to balance our hyperawareness with fleas.

[formflier]

   She has no idea of your background, and unfortunately as statistics have it, there are a lot of unsavory folks in the world.

And she could be (is most likely) one of them... .

So... .others have discussed how their opinions have changes... as they have read... .reread the threads... and others responses.  The view of the woman has changed for some... .  It's changed for me as well... .

There was a ways back where there was some discussion of independent brakes... .and likelihood of  3 completely independent brake systems failing.  It is statistically possible. 

However... .given the whacky way (IMO) with which this woman approaches the world... .that dramatically decreases the chances that there was a true mechanical failure... .and ups the chances that there was some sort of user error.

I did quite a bit of aircraft accident investigation in my day (not a pleasant thing... I assure you)... .but there is a cold... factual part of that process... .  If I tried to convince a panel of experts that three independent brake systems went "poof"... .all on their own... .I would be laughing stock... .especially with someone that behaves oddly in possession.

Unfortunately... .most aircraft accidents... .when you trace a timeline back... .have crewmembers that exhibit some sort of "odd behavior"... .a "human factor".

Listen:  I make no claim that I thought all this through before sending my text.  But... .our experiences in life contribute to "how" we go about calibrating our BS meter.

Mine was pegged out to max... .and the lights were/are flashing... .now that I have considered it... .I can explain why.


I like this thread... .I really do appreciate all the input... .the different points of view... .keep them coming.  I don't feel attacked... .

Listen... .Naval Aviation ready rooms are lively places... (being polite here... )... plus... .every time I landed on the ship it was video taped... .and I was "graded" (given a debrief) publicly... .in front of the entire ready room by the Landing Signal Officers... .so... .I have a thick hide.

I've got lots to respond to in this thread... .I'll get to it

FF

[formflier]

Well I just fired a shot across the bow and I'd like to give ff a chance to respond. 

Cat Familiar,

Good stuff... keep it coming. 

FF

[Notwendy]

I think that this discussion looks at two possible choices.

Either FF is right, and the stroller is not broken, and the woman is in the wrong for her statements/actions.

Or the woman is right, the stroller is broken. FF is in the wrong and owes her $30.

This is one way to look at this. However there is a possibility for error in these two situations. That possibility is that the stroller was not broken when FF sold it, and the stroller broke when the woman attempted to use it. We can not know for certain if this happened, but we also can not know for certain that it did not happen.

Since we have no witnesses about the actual events around the stroller, we can consider all possibilities as well as the fact that we did not know for certain what happened.

So- we consider it from the possibility of the right/wrong angle as above. Or also a choice between two possible mistakes:

It is possible that the woman is scamming FF, in which case FF loses $30 and is scammed as well as insulted.

It is possible that the woman was upset because she paid $30 and got a broken stroller. Although FF knows that he didn't scam her, after this exchange the woman likely feels scammed, and thinks he is a scammer.

Now, FF since there is a chance of the possibility that the stroller broke the first time she used it, no matter how small that probability is, it could happen. Throughout this thread, from what I can see, FF has maintained that he is in the right. It is possible that he is, but there is no way to prove with 100% certainty that this woman does not have a broken stroller, and was presented with a condition for it being refunded, and it is very possible that she felt intimidated and put off by that, to the point that she didn't want to continue the conversation. However, if indeed she has a broken stroller, she is left feeling ripped off.

So, now with all things considered, looking at the possible results of this transaction, one can choose between these situations.

Give the money back after being insulted and risk being scammed $30.

Be known to this woman as the guy who ripped her off and gave her a difficult time about a refund.

In the great scheme of things, I would rather risk being ripped off $30 than to have ripped someone else off. That's how I see things. Now, if it was a large sum of money, I would want to go through the legal system. I know that $30 is not insignificant, especially with a large family and the strain of unemployment.  But in the grand scheme of things, I would rather err on the side of refunding the woman and being scammed than the error of not refunding the money if the stroller was broken.

However, it is a good thing that I am not defending our country and FF is. I tend to err on the softer side of thing, but that isn't necessarily the best decision in all situations either.  People don't all have the same strong points.

[waverider]

I buy and sell pre owned goods for a living, and have learned not to take buyers complaints too literally. They are happy, or they are not, with what they purchased. There is a common belief, that some take to extremes, that if you want a refund you band wagon as many complaint as you can onto an item to hard sell your case. This together with genuine feelings of disappointment (regardless of who's fault) results in very aggressive claims.

Often this angers and triggers the seller as they take it personally, making the claim harder rather than smoother.>>escalating defensiveness by both parties.

As a regular seller, I am not defensive at all when an issue is first raised. I allow returns if someone is not happy. I state this upfront, if they then escalate into abusive claims then I will say 'I dont deal with abuse claims, have nice day'. Then disengage. I dont ask for an apology as the behavior is their problem and the consequences theirs to deal with. Seeking apologies just continues the drama.

You can choose to have a satisfied buyer or not, you can choose to get embroiled in drama or not, you can choose to take their attitude personally or not. Their personality is most likely such that they will act like this whenever they get their needs frustrated, it is not personally aimed at you, they struggle to choose otherwise.

You have better executive control of your choices. There is no right or wrong, only the one that makes you feel better about yourself as a person. The one that is not born out of reactiveness. The right choice for you.

Don't get bogged down in details after all its not really about $30.

[Notwendy]

Yes, it isn't all about $30

There is an emotional component to money that is personal and individual- which is, to me, a reason why money can be a big issue in relationships. I think that is what makes this thread topic an interesting discussion.

[formflier]

Be known to this woman as the guy who ripped her off and gave her a difficult time about a refund.

I chuckled when I thought of this... .

Hey... .so ... .as we all get to know each other around here... .anyone think that I spent... or will spend... .much time considering how this woman view me?   

FF

[formflier]

'I dont deal with abuse claims, have nice day'. Then disengage. 

As someone that likes... .and seeks... .succinct communication... .I like this... .I like it a lot.

My gut reaction is that (assuming I had a time machine... )

Her first text...

I send the response above... .

If she were to come back with a deescalation of some sort... .I can evaluate that... and most likely would have allowed return.

If she sent some other response... .no response from me would be needed.


We have been selling quite a bit of stuff lately... .I don't have an expressly laid out return policy.   I may need to consider this... .

FF

[KateCat]

I'm getting the impression that you are generally pleased with your actions and their outcome in this situation. You might fine-tune your response to a similar event in the future, but in general you disagree with an analysis that might go something like this:

The woman was rude to you.

You were triggered and were rude in turn.

Returning the woman's money would be the right thing to do now.

[formflier]

The woman was rude to you.

You were triggered and were rude in turn.

Returning the woman's money would be the right thing to do now.

Yes... .generally... .ok with it.

More detailed analysis:

Rude (to me) would be asking... or demanding a refund without pleasantries or politeness.  Again... I'm totally ok with other people having different views on "rude".  I can deal with rude... .rude and direct are very close cousins.  I can see how some see my actions as rude... .and others as direct. 

In my world... .you just don't bring an accusation... .or suggestive accusation that you can't back up.  To me... that is way beyond rude... .others may disagree... .I'm ok with that.

There seems to be a thought that I was triggered... .  I guess we would have to define triggered.  Sure... I noticed it... .it was odd.

But... .no feelings like I ever had with my wife... .or others that I have been PO'd at.

I don't think returning the money is the right thing to do... .if she was polite to me... .it would be the polite thing to do back... and I would do it... .even though I may not think I "have to" (in a contractual sense)

Should I see this lady out in public... .I wouldn't go out of my way to speak to her... (like cross a room)... .but if we "bumped into each other"... .I would offer a proper greeting... .something courteous... .

FF

[chump]

I have been a long-time lurker, joined way back in 2006 when it was called the “Nook.” I haven’t posted in years, but read regularly.  I am no longer in a relationship with a pwBPD, but have been in the past and my mother almost certainly has it, although never diagnosed. I like to read the “Staying” board because I learn a lot, I admire all of you who for your commitment, not just to your pwBPD, but to personal growth and healthy relating.  It also reminds me of what life is like in these relationships.

It feels a little strange to come out of posting “retirement” in this post, but it has had a surprising effect on me.  And I apologize if I end up “JADEing” here, but I have been captivated by watching FF open himself to this exchange, and the dynamic which seems to have emerged.

FF certainly doesn’t need me to defend him, I’m impressed with his composure, both in the original incident, as well as this exchange.  His original post was open and invited input, but that input seems to have taken on a subtle (or not so subtle) dimension.

It seems that a number of posters are quite invested in changing FF’s point of view, some who believe he should have handled this differently, and even some who still want him to go back, return the money, even apologize, etc.  Some have characterized his reactions, both in the original transaction, as well as on these posts, as defensive, etc.

I see it completely differently.  I think the woman was rude and needlessly escalated from what might have been a legitimate concern about a transaction.  She was the one who changed the tone from a simple “Hey the brakes don’t work, would you mind returning my money” to what sounded to me like an attack.  In other words she escalated. Now it’s true that FF’s response didn’t DE-escalate, and maybe if he wanted to work on his inner Buddha he could try that next time.  But he also did not escalate further.  For example he didn’t counter-attack, impugn her character, explain why her behavior was unacceptable, or worse, drive over to her house and make a scene, or any number of escalating behavior.  He didn’t escalate or deescalate – he simply held his position calmly, stated that he would need an apology to continue to conversation, return the money, etc.  She had made the interaction unhealthy, he was asserting his preference that the interaction be restored to a healthy respectful tone before anything else happened.

I’m fine with that.  Sure, I might have handled it a little differently, but just as likely I’d have handled it worse because I resented her rudeness.  Remember, she’s the one who made this personal.   

My main reason for posting (again not because FF needs my support, he’s doing fine and seems to welcome this input) is this dynamic that has emerged.  This is a support forum for people in very difficult relationships.  FF asked for input, and it seems totally appropriate to offer perspective, opinions, alternative ways of handling it, etc.  But there seems to be a determined effort to convince FF that he was wrong in his approach, to change his position, to be the “bigger person,” to somehow cater to a rude and difficult woman.  He has chosen his approach, has repeatedly expressed that on balance he feels content with how he handled it, even if he might say things slightly differently with the benefit of hindsight, and seems centered, calm and intentional in his approach.

Yet we are now on the third string of this post, and the thrust seems to be FF should come around.  This dynamic has real resonance for me.  I have had so many examples in my life where I have been essentially “minding my own business,” keeping my side of the street clean, maintaining boundaries, and still have someone else become determined to change my mind, even when my opinions, choices, whatever have absolutely no effect on them.  I’m not talking about where something requires consent between two people to move forward.  I realize you can’t exactly agree to disagree about where to send a child to school or where to spend the holidays as a couple, etc.  There are infinite examples where people need to work things out in a mutually satisfactory way.  I’m talking about things like this post, where FF chose to handle this uncomfortable interaction his way, he was calm, direct, respectful, stated his preference without making demands, accusations, insults, etc.  He has welcomed the input, received it appreciatively, respectfully, and decided that he is still okay with the way he handled it.

And a number of people have decided he needs to change his mind.  And seem quite determined to do so.  It’s too small a sample size to say for sure, but there might be a gender component to this.  This may recreate a common argument between men and women, where a simple “agree to disagree” is somehow not enough.

Anyway, I know I’m JADEing, and there has been a lot of that on this thread, and I know I’m hopping on to a topic really late, and after lurking so long, etc, etc. but this really caught my attention and wanted to chime in.

[Cat Familiar]

Well, here's another thought: perhaps both formflier and the stroller lady were right about the brakes.

We are relying upon opinions, so we have no facts from either side. Formflier did not check the brakes to make sure they were in working order, yet he told the woman the stroller worked. (I think this is the root of my issue with his response to her.)

The woman claimed the brakes were broken and that he knowingly sold a damaged item. (This was an inappropriate assumption.)

I have no experience with jogging strollers, but I rebuilt a bicycle when I was in college so I assumed that the brakes might be similar. As far as the hand brake, the cable could have been out of adjustment and not very responsive. (Easily fixed)

I Googled "jogging stroller broken brakes" and found this posting:

"I bought the stroller new from Diapers.com in Feb of 2010 before DD2 arrived. It gets mostly mall use or neighborhood walking on paved surfaces. I don't break suddenly or abuse the stroller.

The 2009 has a foot break that pushes 2 pins into slots inside the rear wheels to stop the wheels. I put the break on today to have the stroller roll backwards a few inches then stop. Later, I put the break on in our driveway to unload the girls and the breaks never caught... .2 small plastic pieces popped out from the right side and the stroller would have kept rolling if I hadn't stopped it."

My experience with plastic parts is that even when an object is unused for a couple of years, plastic parts can fail through UV exposure over time, general wear and tear, temperature changes, etc.

Therefore it's possible that both parties to this dispute believed they were correct.

What chump is referring to--and I'm the primary motivator of this extended conversation--yes, I'd like formflier to have a bit of compassion for this woman. Yes, she was inappropriate. Yes, he felt his honor besmirched.

The reality is that she believes he sold her a defective item and it could have endangered her children. She was a bit hysterical about that aspect. But all we have are texts. Formflier, in my opinion, did not address the issue that the stroller might be broken, he just acted offended and asked for a "sincere apology" as condition of retuning the buyer's money. That to me was haughty and inappropriate. If he behaved as kindly to her as the fellow we see on this forum, I would bet that she would have gladly apologized when she returned the stroller. Then, with stroller in hand, he could have adjusted the hand brake for her (or not) and determined whether the foot brake was working.

I brought up the Christian angle because I think Jesus taught not to judge but to have compassion. Formflier instead chose to go Old Testament on this woman, saying she had "sinned" by casting aspersions on his character. To me, character is within, not vulnerable to some random stranger's opinion. I would not feel honorable the way this transaction ended if I were the seller.

[MaybeSo]

Hey... .so ... .as we all get to know each other around here... .anyone think that I spent... or will spend... .much time considering how this woman view me?

Her view of you is that you were not honorable in selling her a broken stroller.  Your entire response is a reaction to her view and her assumption of you as not honorable.  In your response to her I think you said she saw you as a bad person and you felt insulted. 

Here you say her view of you is unimportant.  And you were not triggered.

Scratching head.  There is a disconnect here.

It's $30.00.

I think you said you didn't check the stroller before selling it.  The lady suggested that it might be a good idea to do that before selling something that children will be placed in.  That seems reasonable.  I think both you and lady could have handled this differently and better. We see that she was triggered.  You say you were not.

Scratching head.

FF, you seem doggedly convinced that your approach to this interaction was the best course of action.

I will sign off for now, and wish everyone the best.  Have a great weekend!

[formflier]

  Formflier instead chose to go Old Testament on this woman

Negative... the basic structure of my approach is new testament.   Matthew 18.  Certainly the approach is informed by old testament teaching... builds on it. 

FF

[formflier]

Here you say her view of you is unimportant.  And you were not triggered.

View is unimportant... .her words to me are.  Her internal thoughts about me are of no concern... .what comes out of her "mouth" (or text through a keyboard) are...

 

I think you said you didn't check the stroller before selling it.

On that day... .and didn't ask her to give it a check out.  She was most concerned with how it would fit in her vehicle.  So... we demonstrated the folding mechanism...  She opened and shut it a few times... and then it wouldn't fit in the trunk.  So... she somehow wedged it in her back seat... .and off she went.

The stroller had been used by me and my family... .we cleaned it up... .and did not notice anything amiss.  No brakes would... .IMO... have been noticed.  I never suggested... .or was asked... if I did a full diagnostic or tune up.

FF, you seem doggedly convinced that your approach to this interaction was the best course of action.

For those that have seen my posting and advice style... .(I'll give you a chance to guess my next sentence... .)... You know I'm a good... .better... .best... .kinda guy.

My response was far from best... .if I wanted to put in the effort... .I might be able to argue myself (doubtful you guys would come along... .   into thinking that I did better.

Right now... .my thoughts... .

What I did:  Good.

Give her the opportunity to clarify:  Better

"I don't do abusive requests" (or something similar to a Waverider response)... .Best.

Waverider,

Coming from a guy that likes to say things succinctly... .my hat is off to you.  My guess is that you got there through a lot of hard work... . 

FF

[Harri]

Hi formflier!  I see you are very succinct and I tend to write novels so tl;dr ---> I think you are doing just fine here! And yes, it is all about boundaries!

You impress me with your patience and ability to not take things personally in these threads.  I think people have not seen or maybe forgot where you said on the first thread (post #29 I think) that you would have done things a bit differently now that you have had a chance to think things through and would have said to Buggy Caper Lady "help me understand" or where you said you liked the alternative response offered by Offroad just a few posts up from that one. 

In case you need   one more opinion about this, I think you were far kinder than I would have been especially **after** thinking this through for the last 24 hours.  I would have gone with "It is apparent you have me all figured out.  Too bad because you are missing out on the opportunity to learn just how kind I really am and you just lost out on getting your $30 bucks back." and then I would have donated the money to a local Passive Aggressive/Emotionally Manipulative Anonymous group or something.   

I said I need to learn not to be such a harda*s when dealing with highly manipulative and passive aggressive people in both work and personal situations and I have learned a lot reading these three (!) threads through but this lady to me represents everything that is wrong with so many people today.  I refuse to reward that behavior and I will cut it off and or walk away when the relationship is insignificant to me.  I have several 'friends' with kids who pull the 'my children' and the mama bear emotional blackmail crap of Buggy Caper Lady to hide their own poor behaviors... .and we are now no more than acquaintances by my choice.  I just do not have it in me to even listen to that for more than a second.  I had a lifetime of that with a uBPD mother and a passive aggressive enabler of a non-father.   

I do think that what you have encountered with these threads will help you in your new job (congrats!) especially if you will be working in a civilian (is that the right wording?) position.  It will require a much softer touch and there are ways to do that without losing your honor or going against your values.  I have a feeling that is why you are willing to stick this through here.  Again, you are far more patient and tolerant than I.     I also have a feeling you will figure things out fairly quickly.

BTW, if you are still confused about what is passive aggressive behavior like you mentioned somewhere in the first (?) thread on this topic, I would strongly recommend reading up on it.  Do a google search.  Not one thing you did in this thread or while responding to the Buggy Caper Lady could reasonably be called passive aggressive. 

BTW no. II, this issue here is definitely a boundary issue.  Both with the woman and with the responses on this thread.  I forget where but at some point you said you wondered about that.  Definitely a boundary issue.

Also, to chump... .darn you're good!  I read your post in between my appointments.  I was at Dunkin' D using the free wifi and got a few strange looks when I kept saying "YES!" out loud at various things in your post.  So glad you came out of lurker mode.

[Cat Familiar]

Well it seems the difference in the responses come down to whether you want to come from a punitive or a compassionate place.

[Cole]

I am amazed this topic is still going; it seems so clear cut to me.

She chose to frame her complaint about the stroller as a personal attack on a man's character. FF set a boundary that he will not be treated like that.

He offered to take the stroller back in exchange for a deserved apology. She refused.

End of story.

What am I missing here?  


"I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them.”

― John Wayne

[formflier]

Well it seems the difference in the responses come down to whether you want to come from a punitive or a compassionate place.

Yep... .which is why I followed the new testament model of compassion.

FF

[Cole]

Honor is no different than freedom. If you are not willing to defend it then you do not deserve to keep it.

It is a sad commentary on society that we don't understand that.

 

[Cat Familiar]

Here's the deal: she thought formflier had lied to her when he told her the stroller was in good working order. That's why she was so angry.