I think Im going mad

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Good days and bad days.  No contact now for 10 days, and tbh, im starting to question everything.  Maybe its me with BPD?  Maybe shes just a bit erratic, highly volatile.  Maybe ive stereotyped her looking for answers, and there really isnt any?  Can that happen?

Not feeling to grounded today.  Maybe im just looking for excused to contact her.  Think iIm going a bit nuts.  

[seang]

Good days and bad days.  No contact now for 10 days, and tbh, im starting to question everything.  Maybe its me with BPD?  Maybe shes just a bit erratic, highly volatile.  Maybe ive stereotyped her looking for answers, and there really isnt any?  Can that happen?

Not feeling to grounded today.  Maybe im just looking for excused to contact her.  Think iIm going a bit nuts.  

[Mutt]

Hi seang,

I completely understand. The early stretches of no contact is rough and we may rationalize our ex partner's behaviors. Is he / she really mentally ill? I asked myself the same questions if I had BPD. I found sharing on the boards helped me with staying grounded when I was having bad days.

[seang]

Mutt, hi

Thanks for the response.  Shes not officially diagnosed, no.  But after getting onto these boards and others, speaking with people for about the last 3 months, and trying to work all this out, I'm pretty confident she's a hfBpd.  Or at least i was.  I'm guessing the "hf" element is whats making me doubt.  Shes so convincing to everyone else.  MAybe it was just me she didnt get on with?  Plus as you say, the longer the NC, the less you criticise and kinda just think,, its over, maybe that's just it!  

Like i said, I know Im no easy going guy.  I can have anger issues, not the last few years ive mellowed.  And I def let a lot go in my recent relationship to avoid further confrontation.  So im hoping thats me having some self-control.  Maybe the fact i argued back in the early days, and wouldnt tolerate her rages at me was th reasons it got worse quick

Idk, its just crap, sitting here day after day, going over everything and not really getting anywhere.  Yesterday i was feeling great, relieved in fact.  Today i miss her, and have started to question my own sanity.  This whole thing is highly confusing.  Just reading about this stuff drives you mad.

I was she was diagnosed.  At least then I would know for sure it was her, it was never going to work, and I was set free.  Just dont feel that way.  

And i still cant believe that when I finally said goodbye to her 10 days ago, she didnt even respond with anything.  After just over a year together, nothing. Not even a Fuk off!

Not happy... .

[Mutt]

I get the second guessing and I can see how it would be more confusing if she was hf.

BPD is an invisible disorder and directed at people that are close to the person - intimacy triggers the disorder.

BPD is a persecution complex and I was frustrated with my ex partner with the disproportionate displays of anger, it didn't make sense to me why she was triggered and I felt like I was on the defensive. A pwBPD often cast themselves in the victim role and sometimes rescuer and we shift our roles along a triangle, sometimes we're the victim, rescuer and persecutor. If we hold on to the position of persecutor ( I'm right, you're wrong ) a pwBPD can emotionally collapse.

That has to sting that she didn't react when you said good-bye when you were together for a year. I'm sorry to hear that.

[Learning_curve74]

Good days and bad days.  No contact now for 10 days, and tbh, im starting to question everything.  Maybe its me with BPD?  Maybe shes just a bit erratic, highly volatile.  Maybe ive stereotyped her looking for answers, and there really isnt any?  Can that happen?

Sorry to hear you're struggling, seang. It's not always easy to give up on a relationship. 

Regardless of whether she's diagnosed with BPD, are you willing to put up with somebody who "rages", is erratic, and highly volatile? Is that because that's what you're specifically looking for in a partner? Or are you just feeling lonely and/or upset because you had a partner and now you don't?

[seang]

I get the second guessing and I can how it would be more confusing if she was hf.

hf are like little fukin stealth bombs.  They dont show anything to anyone thats not close enough, yet go off at you over the most trivial crap.  I think the hf ones also have no chance of self recognition.  There is no way she would ever admit she may have issues.  And the shear mention would curtail a volley of abuse and silence.  I was the one with issues... .

BPD is an invisible disorder and directed at people that are close to the person - intimacy triggers the disorder.

Crazy huh, they push away what only wants to be close, and deep down, probably what they want.  But maybe there are people out there for them.  I know for a fact she loved her last bf.  She managed 2 years with him until he collected his stuff when she wasnt there and left (red flag)!  But that hurt her i know.  And she always tells me shes never argued with ANYONE as much as she does with me.  Really/?   But she did manage with him, maybe another Bpd, or Npbd.  See, Im analysing again!

BPD is a persecution complex and I was frustrated with my ex partner with the disproportionate displays of anger, it didn't make sense to me why she was triggered and I felt like I was on the defensive. A pwBPD often cast themselves in the victim role and sometimes rescuer and we shift our roles along a triangle, sometimes we're the victim, rescuer and persecutor. If we hold on to the position of persecutor ( I'm right, you're wrong ) a pwBPD can emotionally collapse.

I get all that, not being rude, Ive read enough about the switches, the push/pulls, fear of abandonment/attachment.  Its just all fukin nuts!  What do you mean hold onto the persecutor, they will collapse?  :)o you think my intolerance of a lot of the behaviour triggered her.  I get that.  But emotional collapse?  She seem fine and dandy to me moving on... .

That has to sting that she didn't react when you said good-bye when you were together for a year. I'm sorry to hear that.

Yeah, it did and does hurt!  Initially i thought maybe she doesnt want to say goodbye... .for good like.  But after all this time, knowing shes happy moving on, not hearing  from her, and kinda thinking she split me BLACKASS, i think its done.  Thats what i mean, BPD or not, that just aint normal behaviour is it?

[seang]

Sorry to hear you're struggling, seang. It's not always easy to give up on a relationship. 

Regardless of whether she's diagnosed with BPD, are you willing to put up with somebody who "rages", is erratic, and highly volatile? Is that because that's what you're specifically looking for in a partner? Or are you just feeling lonely and/or upset because you had a partner and now you don't?

When i was in the zone... .yes, i was willing to tolerate some of it.  im not a rescuer as such, but I am one who believes in change and working things thru.  This was before i found out about Bpd! 

No, i am def not looking for this in a partner, although i do think i attract them, my last gf suffered with anxiety, insecurity and depression.  7 years that lasted, and not a tough on the chaos in this one.  What i am looking for in a partner is beauty, both deep and on the surface, caring, strong, independent, and intelligent.  Unfortunately, also traits of a hf BPD.

Of course Im feeling lonely and upset.  Dont we all?  They are very captivating.  My point is the questioning of ones own impact and mental state.  Id rather just wake up everyday knowing she was BPD and she's nuts!  Just makes moving on easy.  Selfish, i know. 

[Mutt]

I didn't take it as being rude. You understand the push / pull and when our ex partners are blaming us its projection because they feel bad about themselves and at the root of the disorder is shame.  I can see how she seems fine and dandy when she left, a pwBPD leave the r/s feeling shame, that's devastating to us when the person shows little empathy, she has defense mechanisms, maladaptive coping skills.

I think a part of the process with our healing is analyzing. I agree it's not normal behavior. My ex said something similar that she didn't have problems like she did with me. Near the end of our r/s my SD was very upset, she was 12 at the time and she said "Why does my mom fight will all of her boyfriends?" I didn't get it then, I do now, my ex is very sick with a severe mental illness.

[seang]

Sorry if im a bit brash tonight.  Not happy.  Dont mean to come across harsh. :-)

[Mutt]

There's no need to apologize  I know how difficult this is. Its Ok to vent. It helps to share.

[seang]

"Why does my mom fight will all of her boyfriends?" I didn't get it then, I do now, my ex is very sick with a severe mental illness.

That hit home!  She has a 12 yo D, who i got on great with.  Even said I was the best boyfriend her mother had.  Poor kid!   Bought me a fathers day gift.  I miss her too.  When my partner started to rage at me, her D would look at me as if to say, here we go.  She dealt with her mother amazingly.  She rolls her eyes and walks away.  Something i couldnt always do.  But even her D walking away she thought was wrong.  Couldnt understand why her D would rather be upstairs or have earphones in all the time than interact.  Its so sad really recollecting.   I was even accused one of conspiring with a 12 yo and ganging up on her.

Still miss the mad b___ tho, LOL.

[ReclaimingMyLife]

Hi Seang,

Sorry for the struggle.  In my experience, it totally and completely sucks.  Amazing how much being the r/s could suck and how much leaving it can suck.  Seems like one or the other should be true, but not both.  Again, in my experience, both are true. 

Turkish posted this on another thread a couple of days ago.  It really summed up so much of my experience.  Reading it and knowing this was very affirming that no matter what good qualities my UxBPDbf had (and he had them for sure), what is written below is true. 

And since that is true, then it is going to be damn near impossible for me (you/us) us to get what you articulated you want from a partner:  "beauty, both deep and on the surface, caring, strong, independent, and intelligent" minus the BPD. 

This list is maybe the most helpful things I've read.  Because, for me, in the final analysis, it doesn't really matter if my ex was BPD or not since he was everything written below. 

Hope it helps you too!

________

Link to original thread (all of which is good):  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=60935.0;all



Here are some characteristics of emotional immaturity from When the man in your life can't commit by David Hawkins:

1. Volatile Emotions Emotional volatility is indicated by such things as explosive behavior, temper tantrums, low frustration tolerance, responses out of proportion to cause, oversensitivity, inability to take criticism, unreasonable jealousy, unwillingness to forgive, and a capricious fluctuation of moods.

2. Over-Dependence O Healthy human development proceeds from dependence (I need you), to independence (I don’t need anyone), to interdependence (we need each other — see also the Seven Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen R. Covey).

Over-dependence is indicated by: a) inappropriate dependence, e.g. relying on someone when it is preferable to be self-reliant, and b) too great a degree of dependence for too long. This includes being too easily influenced, indecisive, and prone to snap judgments. Overly-dependent people fear change preferring accustomed situations and behavior to the uncertainty of change and the challenge of adjustment. Extreme conservatism may even be a symptom.

3. Stimulation Hunger This includes demanding immediate attention or gratification and being unable to wait for anything. Stimulation hungry people are incapable of deferred gratification, which means to put off present desires in order to gain a future reward. Stimulation hungry people are superficial and live thoughtlessly and impulsively. Their personal loyalty lasts only as long as the usefulness of the relationship. They have superficial values and are too concerned with trivia (their appearance, etc.). Their social and financial lives are chaotic.

4. Egocentricity Egocentricity is self-centeredness. It’s major manifestation is selfishness. It is associated with low self-esteem. Self-centered people have no regard for others, but they also have only slight regard for themselves. An egocentric person is preoccupied with his own feelings and symptoms. He demands constant attention and insists on self-gratifying sympathy, fishes for compliments, and makes unreasonable demands. He is typically overly-competitive, a poor loser, perfectionistic, and refuses to play or work if he can’t have his own way.

A self-centered person does not see himself realistically, does not take responsibility for his own mistakes or deficiencies, is unable to constructively criticize himself, and is insensitive to the feelings of others. Only emotionally mature people can experience true empathy, and empathy is a prime requirement for successful relationships.

[Mutt]

I miss my SD too. She was a clue when I doubted myself that there was a pattern, a history there before me with her mom with unstable interpersonal relationships. Her father had abandoned her when she was 2 and she was introduced to a lot of boyfriends. I had the chance to talk to my SD after the split and she said "Mutt you're the only one that stuck up for me"

It sounds like her daughter liked you a lot and she knows what her mother is like. I understand the accusations with her daughter. Did you feel like the love and attention that you gave to her daughter triggered jealousy with your ex?

[seang]

I miss my SD too. She was a clue when I doubted myself that there was a pattern, a history there before me with her mom with unstable interpersonal relationships. Her father had abandoned her when she was 2 and she was introduced to a lot of boyfriends. I had the chance to talk to my SD after the split and she said "Mutt you're the only one that stuck up for me"

It sounds like her daughter liked you a lot and she knows what her mother is like. I understand the accusations with her daughter. Did you feel like the love and attention that you gave to her daughter triggered jealousy with your ex?

Man,  that brought a tear to my eye as i write.  I dont know if it triggered jealousy, or more resentment.  But i do think deep down, in her hard cold front, she knows she aint right!  I saw it in her at times, heard what she said, at times.  But it never stuck.  Back to the D, i just think it was like we both knew her, and how she acted wasnt right.  And my partner knew that, and felt outed i guess.  Vulnerable.  Just all so sad, pointless, and as it feels... .a total waste of ones time.

Isnt it funny how kids adapt to it?  At what cost tho... .

[JohnnyShoes]

Nothing to get to worried about. Every word you wrote, I could've written at one point.

Its part of 'dancing' with someone that has this disorder.

You swam in the pool of her disorder... .and wandered into the deep end... .there's no way it doesn't effect us.

No contact with them and time washes us clean... .each day.

The F.O.G. lifts and we begin to feel like our old selves again.

Hang in there... .you'll be fine.

[Mutt]

I miss my SD too. She was a clue when I doubted myself that there was a pattern, a history there before me with her mom with unstable interpersonal relationships. Her father had abandoned her when she was 2 and she was introduced to a lot of boyfriends. I had the chance to talk to my SD after the split and she said "Mutt you're the only one that stuck up for me"

It sounds like her daughter liked you a lot and she knows what her mother is like. I understand the accusations with her daughter. Did you feel like the love and attention that you gave to her daughter triggered jealousy with your ex?

Man,  that brought a tear to my eye as i write.  I dont know if it triggered jealousy, or more resentment.  But i do think deep down, in her hard cold front, she knows she aint right!  I saw it in her at times, heard what she said, at times.  But it never stuck.  Back to the D, i just think it was like we both knew her, and how she acted wasnt right.  And my partner knew that, and felt outed i guess.  Vulnerable.  Just all so sad, pointless, and as it feels... .a total waste of ones time.

Isnt it funny how kids adapt to it?  At what cost tho... .

Are you worried about D?

I worried about mine because I'm not there to protect her. I know I made an impact, I influenced her and we may connect again when she's an adult. I know how hard that is with a relationship with a step child.

[SGraham]

Hey from one SG to another, im sorry to hear you are going through that man, im right there with you. And don't worry about feeling a bit nuts, BPD drives us all mad in our own specific ways. It's unreal how these people can drag is into there crazy worlds. All of your doubts and fears are perfectly justified.

Best wishes,

SG

[SGraham]

Nothing to get to worried about. Every word you wrote, I could've written at one point.

Its part of 'dancing' with someone that has this disorder.

You swam in the pool of her disorder... .and wandered into the deep end... .there's no way it doesn't effect us.

No contact with them and time washes us clean... .each day.

The F.O.G. lifts and we begin to feel like our old selves again.

Hang in there... .you'll be fine.

I think the pool metaphor is intriguing and pretty accurate, but it left me wondering: wont you always carry a bit of that darkness with you, having been in such a dark place at all? I mean knowing how things have affected me in the past, i feel like thats the case for me.

[JohnnyShoes]

Nothing to get to worried about. Every word you wrote, I could've written at one point.

Its part of 'dancing' with someone that has this disorder.

You swam in the pool of her disorder... .and wandered into the deep end... .there's no way it doesn't effect us.

No contact with them and time washes us clean... .each day.

The F.O.G. lifts and we begin to feel like our old selves again.

Hang in there... .you'll be fine.

I think the pool metaphor is intriguing and pretty accurate, but it left me wondering: wont you always carry a bit of that darkness with you, having been in such a dark place at all? I mean knowing how things have affected me in the past, i feel like thats the case for me.

I will speak for myself here, but perhaps some of this applies : I was Trained in my FOO to interact/deal with people like this. I came from a dysfunctional family... .my mother whom I suspect has BPD... .

I've notice in relationships I've had, I have subconsciously been reenacting my childhood trauma/experience... .trying to WIN their 'approval' and 'acceptance'...

THIS is that darkness that I carry with me... until I can heal from it.

Peace!

[SGraham]

None of my parents are BPD, but they had a really crap relationship and divorced when i was 15 (thou they should have split when i was like 5). I can definitely sense how their dysfunctional relationship is a  detriment to my ability to relate to others which sucks because it paradoxically made me value relationships more.

[JohnnyShoes]

Nothing to get to worried about. Every word you wrote, I could've written at one point.

Its part of 'dancing' with someone that has this disorder.

You swam in the pool of her disorder... .and wandered into the deep end... .there's no way it doesn't effect us.

No contact with them and time washes us clean... .each day.

The F.O.G. lifts and we begin to feel like our old selves again.

Hang in there... .you'll be fine.

I think the pool metaphor is intriguing and pretty accurate, but it left me wondering: wont you always carry a bit of that darkness with you, having been in such a dark place at all? I mean knowing how things have affected me in the past, i feel like thats the case for me.

Graham - perhaps I misunderstood... .Are you referring to always having the memories if these bad experiences 'following' us later in life... .as in haunting us?

Never letting us forget those experiences?

Then my answer to that is... .Yes... cause stuff that has happened (relationship wise) still occasionally bothers me... But those occur on lonley, bad, 'negative' days...

THAT 'darkness' does loom over me. But I try to keep moving forward, not letting it define me.

Sometimes I hav days in which i occasionally find myself Wrestling with them.

[michel71]

I am in the exact place as JohnnyShoes reliving my relationship with my BPD mother (now deceased) in the form of a romantic relationship,hoping to get that love and acceptance in a similarly situated relationship of chaos. Like Mutt, I have a SD who has seen her mother divorce her father, get into another relationship of turmoil and then there came me. I have tried to be a stable person in my SD's life. I have tried to teach her things my uBPDw won't... .like good table manners, taking pride in one's personal appearance, accountability, structure. My wife is always afraid of hurting her daughter's feelings since she herself was hurt in childhood.

[michel71]

SO Saeng... .I get NUTS! We have all been there!

[SGraham]

Then my answer to that is... .Yes... cause stuff that has happened (relationship wise) still occasionally bothers me... But those occur on lonley, bad, 'negative' days...

THAT 'darkness' does loom over me. But I try to keep moving forward, not letting it define me.

Sometimes I hav days in which i occasionally find myself Wrestling with them.

Yeah that's what i meant, but additionally i meant how experiences like this inevitably make you a little bit more bitter, a little bit more cynical. 

[JohnnyShoes]

Then my answer to that is... .Yes... cause stuff that has happened (relationship wise) still occasionally bothers me... But those occur on lonley, bad, 'negative' days...

THAT 'darkness' does loom over me. But I try to keep moving forward, not letting it define me.

Sometimes I hav days in which i occasionally find myself Wrestling with them.

Yeah that's what i meant, but additionally i meant how experiences like this inevitably make you a little bit more bitter, a little bit more cynical. 

Unfortunately, Yes... .it does... .my last few relationships were BPDs and NPDs... .

I've grown gun shy... .I can pick these PDs out in a crowd blindfolded... .

Yes... I'm cynical...

But here's my choices:

A) keep trying, keep working on myself... .and LISTEN LISTEN LISTEN to my gut when I see the red flags... .and NOT give these people the "benefit of the doubt.

Or

B) Be alone for the rest of my life.

I tend to want to keep trying, although... .I do enjoy being by myself (especially coming out of a relationship with a pwBPD)

Wishing all of us Peace and the gift of finding someone who shares our values and beliefs!

[SGraham]

Unfortunately, Yes... .it does... .my last few relationships were BPDs and NPDs... .

I've grown gun shy... .I can pick these PDs out in a crowd blindfolded... .

Yes... I'm cynical...

But here's my choices:

A) keep trying, keep working on myself... .and LISTEN LISTEN LISTEN to my gut when I see the red flags... .and NOT give these people the "benefit of the doubt.

Or

B) Be alone for the rest of my life.

I tend to want to keep trying, although... .I do enjoy being by myself (especially coming out of a relationship with a pwBPD)

Wishing all of us Peace and the gift of finding someone who shares our values and beliefs!

I think that's really wise way to look at it. Im going off to college soon so that will be a good opportunity to work on myself and rebuild the emotional fortitude i once had.