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Author Topic: Wife wants to have a 'talk' tonight  (Read 396 times)
adventurer
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« on: September 01, 2015, 10:01:55 AM »

Not looking forward. She was out of sorts last night, I asked her a simple question about our schedule and she jumped down my throat, asking why I was being nasty to her and wanted to know what I was 'really' angry about. I told her I wasn't angry at all, it seemd to me that she was angry and trying to pull me into fight and projecting that onto me. We sorted it out but I know she was depressed and close to tears afterwards.

So now she wants to have a talk tonight about the state of the relationship and reconnect. Also, she wants to go over the reasons I've been unhappy in the relationship and done hurtful things.

Honestly, I don't want to go over anything. I have told her hundreds of times what I'm unhappy about and she refuses to do anything on her side to work things out, doesn't want to do therapy. Won't get a job. Anytime I express my feelings or opinions about something, I am invalidated, told I always make things 'all about me', and that I only care about money and myself.

So not sure how to mentally prepare myself for this conversation. I want to divorce but am not ready to talk to her about this yet. I think I will just try to deflect, tell her things that have been at issue but that I love her and accept that that is just the way things will be for us. There is zero point in me sharing my feelings or thoughts with her. She is incapable of caring. She is just trying to fill some hole of insecurity.

My theory is that she wants this talk because i short circuited the system when I refused to start a fight with her and maybe she felt a little twinge of truth when I told her that she was trying to start something. If she can't get me to fight, i must not care, and I set off the abandonment fears.

I'm going to filled with anxiety all day, dreading this talk she wants to have.

How do you folks deal with situations like this? How should I prepare mentally for this? Is it fair for me to tell her that I just don't want to talk about my issues with her, or tell her I will only talk about them with a therapist present?

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fromheeltoheal
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« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2015, 10:26:36 AM »

If she is indeed a dysregulated borderline in pull mode and fearing abandonment, what she wants and needs is assurances that you won't leave, which doesn't work very well when you say you want to get divorced, but if you're buying time right now, the easiest route would be to give her those assurances that you won't leave and don't engage emotionally or talk about your needs at all.  Since it's a fiction anyway you could focus on that and focus outwardly on her needs of the moment, which should lessen the anxiety for you.
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UndauntedDad

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« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2015, 12:30:29 PM »

Adventurer, I think I know how you feel.  I remember that dread, the anxiety all day.

There is a benefit to the discussion, no matter what the outcome.  It is an opportunity to practice useful communication techniques, to practice interacting in a way that you minimize your own hurt.  No matter what, you will have future communications with her, and practicing will help.

My wife and I can communicate better now, but it's been a tough year as we've worked through many things related to our g separation.  Although we will separate, we are co-parents, so No Contact is not really an option and healthy (or tolerable) communication is key. In the earlier / worse days for me, I tried to view these scary discussions as football practice--useful exercise, painful, but generally safe, and also, we're on the same team though it often doesn't feel like it.

Two simple communication strategies helped me a lot.  The first is the S.E.T. technique, Support, Empathy, Truth, there's a lot on this site about it, here's a link if it works.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=143695.0

The second was something I got from Randi Kreger's excellent book, The Essential Family Guide to BPD.  It's a song I'd sing to myself in an argument, to the tune of Row row row your boat:

Breathe, breathe, safety first,

acknowledge what you hear

don't defend, delay instead

distract, defuse, or DEAR

(DEAR is another communication acronym, and there are other effective techniques around here like DEARMAN, you can find what works for you)

Good luck, adventurer, we are pulling for you.
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ScorpioLaw

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« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2015, 02:52:35 AM »

 I guess I have to be the one that says this.

What you're doing is wrong on so many levels. There is no amount of reasoning or excusing that will change that fact.

She is STILL -your- wife. I don't care who she is deep down, what she has, what she will do, or what she has done. Nothing will change the fact that you made solid commitments and vows.

Do not lower yourself, just because someone else is doing something. That does NOT justify your actions.(or lack of action in this case.)

What YOU ARE doing is not right. Holding a truth from her like that is wrong. Deflecting it is just wrong. If she asks and you didn't tell her then you are lying. And I think we are all old enough to realize that it's wrong to lie in any shape or form.

I can't believe other people are telling you exactly what you need to do to avoid it. That's just as wrong.

Quite frankly, you're acting cowardly and deceitful.

What bothers me is that you seemed to have made up your mind. I'm all for divorce, if that's what you want. If you're not happy then you're not happy.

But you haven't even brought it up and that's where you're wrong. She is your wife and you are first and foremost HER husband. So maybe you should act like one instead of pretending because I can certainly say that you are not benefiting anyone.

So because you are a man, and more importantly a husband. You need to stop putting your hands up in self defeat. Pick up the towel that you threw down after waving it in surrender. Then use it to wipe yourself off until you get through the muck, and onto the other side. What the other side is depends on you.

Get back in to the relationship until you can at least tell her the truth.

I'm not saying it's going to be easy. It's probably going to be hard; but it's just something you have to do as a man. You should do it for her, and more importantly do it FOR YOURSELF.

What's the worse that can happen? You'll lose a marriage that seems to be beyond repair? Well from your words it seems to already have happened. So if there is nothing you can do then you can at least be honest and forthcoming.

Hey? Who knows... .Maybe she will change, once that ball is in the air. I've certainly seen people change for the better before my eyes.

Maybe it won't.

Either way you can only control your actions and what you're doing is selling yourself short.
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adventurer
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« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2015, 11:42:34 AM »

ScorpioLaw-

I think you misunderstand my situation. My wife is not clueless that I have problems with the marriage. I told my wife one year ago that I thought we should separate. She has failed to do things on her end. I need to leave.

Calling me cowardly and appealing to my manhood is frankly you pinning Fear, Obligation and Guilt onto me.  I 'made solid commitments and vows'? Are you kidding me? This is the LEAVING board. This is the same kind of BS my wife dumps on me when I have told her I am unhappy and she is completely unwilling to do anything on her side to make this a PARTNERSHIP.

Yes I am being deceitful. It is frankly what I need to do to survive until I have the things in place needed to leave this marriage. I do not have my own car. I do not have enough money prepared to support two households. What would you have me do, tell her I'm done, that I want a divorce, and then spend the next 5 months living under the same roof with an emotional manipulator and abuser in full on abandonment mode? Be in the same household with someone I do not trust not to destroy some personal items that I do not yet have a safe storage space for? It was scary enough to see her extinction burst when I spend THREE DAYS doing broken record to tell her she needed to get a job.

I suppose I appreciate you putting an alternate viewpoint out there but I really don't think I'll be telling her that I'm filing for divorce in a few months.

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Mutt
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« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2015, 12:05:22 PM »

Hi adventurer,

I understand how emotionally distressing and scary all of this would be.

Be in the same household with someone I do not trust not to destroy some personal items that I do not yet have a safe storage space for? It was scary enough to see her extinction burst when I spend THREE DAYS doing broken record to tell her she needed to get a job.

At the center of the disorder is a narcissistic wound, abandonment fears, the core wound of abandonment. A fear of abandonment perceived or real. I triggered my ex wife when I said that I wanted a divorce and I was faced with intense anger and borderline rages. Dr Joe Carver recommends to share less, become boring in the detachment stage of exiting a relationship with a sufferer of BPD.

Leaving A Partner with Borderline Personality


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LimboFL
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« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2015, 12:31:17 PM »

I haven't posted in quite a while, but after reading Scorpio's message, I am compelled to jump in again.

Scorpio, your comments make me wonder if you might be on the wrong site. Anyone who knows me knows how deeply I still love and care for my ex (4 year live in, essentially 8 months no contact) and how much empathy I have for pwBPD, that they are human beings, who suffered and still do in ways that I can't imagine. I stuck it out with my ex, until she broke a barrier (and my heart) that I would not accept, for as long as I did because, while not religious, I do believe in the mantra of in sickness and in health. I wanted to help and wanted to be there for her. I learned how to cope.

With all of this said I found your comments to Adventurer insulting and judgmental and reeking of an attempt to impose your morality on someone who has clearly fought the battles we all have, to no avail. Adventurer does not come across in anyway as someone who is just "ditching" his wife but rather of a man who has every right to be concerned about the outcome of thrusting this kind of very difficult news on a person who, we all know, will likely not react rationally.

Your comment that you have seen "many people change before your very eyes" honestly has me wondering if you are even familiar with BPD. Can they change? Yes, but not without years of dedicated therapy. I couldn't even maintain this kind of commitment, so I understand when pwBPD don't.

You have steamrolled with your judgments over a man who is clearly in deep pain as a result of a decision that he has made, most likely one of the most difficult decisions that he has ever been faced with. I left my ex because I had to and it was one of the most painful events that I have and frankly continue to go through. This coming from a man who was with his "non" ex wife for 20 years and who left me.

I'm quite frankly holding my tongue. None of us want to be on this journey or to leave (have left). With some exceptions, every one of us had hopes and dreams about a life with the person who we fell so deep in love with and wanted to grow old with. While, largely in reaction to their behaviors, none of us are exempt from guilt in having played our part, the disorder took over our lives and inflicted tremendous anguish and pain on us that we never thought would happen.

Being on this board is NOT about appeasing anyone. I certainly do not contribute, when I have, to stroke anyone BUT I evaluate the words from a poster and determine in what state they are in and then offer my thoughts in accordance with where I believe that person is on their very difficult journey.

Regardless, again if you can't understand why Adventurer is taking the route that CLEARLY pains him, by not sharing his plans to leave with his wife, then I don't think you have any understanding of this disorder at all and believe that you owe Adventurer an apology. You handle things the way you want to, in your life, Scorpio but unless you are walking in another mans shoes, I find it quite distasteful for anyone to impose THEIR beliefs on anyone especially when there is a horribly painful disorder in the mix. I imagine that the very last thing adventurer wants to do is inflict this kind of pain on his wife. He clearly still loves her and wants nothing more than for there to be a miracle, so that he can get back the woman he fell in love with. One need only spend a couple of hours reading all of the posts on this board to know that there is no magic pill.

If you want to impose your morality on others, then I suggest that you do it elsewhere. The rest of us on this board, know exactly what kind of anguish and pain that Adventurer is going through and the level of despair he is facing.

Again, I hope that you will reflect on your comments and then offer an apology to man who certainly does not need or deserve this kind of "education".

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lbjnltx
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« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2015, 01:19:12 PM »



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3.3 Divisive Exchanges: All members should feel safe in their expressions; we are all here to heal from abuse. Please keep in mind that the membership is comprised of diverse experiences and backgrounds; this is a great strength of our community. Forum is healthy when conducted in a respectful, and tolerant manner. Under no circumstances shall members be permitted to engage in divisive or abusive exchanges or be judgmental of other members.

If you have an offensive comment directed toward you, do not engage it. If a you find the subject matter or a response to be triggering, do not engage it. Step away from your computer. If, upon reflection, you feel that there is a problem that needs to be addressed, please contact a moderator. The staff will investigate with an impartial eye. There is a button on the bottom right of every post titled "report to moderator."

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mstnghu
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« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2015, 02:23:21 PM »

ScorpioLaw-

I think you misunderstand my situation. My wife is not clueless that I have problems with the marriage. I told my wife one year ago that I thought we should separate. She has failed to do things on her end. I need to leave.

Calling me cowardly and appealing to my manhood is frankly you pinning Fear, Obligation and Guilt onto me.  I 'made solid commitments and vows'? Are you kidding me? This is the LEAVING board. This is the same kind of BS my wife dumps on me when I have told her I am unhappy and she is completely unwilling to do anything on her side to make this a PARTNERSHIP.

Yes I am being deceitful. It is frankly what I need to do to survive until I have the things in place needed to leave this marriage. I do not have my own car. I do not have enough money prepared to support two households. What would you have me do, tell her I'm done, that I want a divorce, and then spend the next 5 months living under the same roof with an emotional manipulator and abuser in full on abandonment mode? Be in the same household with someone I do not trust not to destroy some personal items that I do not yet have a safe storage space for? It was scary enough to see her extinction burst when I spend THREE DAYS doing broken record to tell her she needed to get a job.

I suppose I appreciate you putting an alternate viewpoint out there but I really don't think I'll be telling her that I'm filing for divorce in a few months.

I completely agree with your perspective and can relate to what you're going through. You don't need to justify yourself. In my own case, I took my wedding vows very seriously. There comes a point though where you've done almost everything you can do to get your BPD spouse to understand the things she's doing that are creating major conflict in the relationship.

My wife blames me for every bit of her unhappiness, not just in our relationship, but in life in general. She absolutely refuses to acknowledge anything she does at all. She had a major dysregulation episode the other day when I walked in the door after work. She completely unloaded on me verbally right in front of our 4 year old son. She also proceeded to tell me that I need to get therapy... .so ironic.

I've wavered back and forth for a very long time about whether I should stay with my wife or leave. It's not an easy decision in any way. The reality is though, in my situation, I now feel that I deserve the right to be happy. My son deserves to be happy. I can't fix my wife. She is the only one who can choose to acknowledge her problems and seek help. So far, my wife has never taken responsibility for herself and just continues to project her issues onto me and to deflect. Staying or leaving is a very hard decision. Don't let anybody make you feel guilty. I'm in complete disagreement with ScorpioLaw. I took my wedding vows seriously but there has to be a point when your partner reciprocates. Relationships aren't one-sided.
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fromheeltoheal
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« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2015, 02:45:40 PM »

Hey adventurer, how did your talk go the other night?
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adventurer
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« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2015, 03:00:21 PM »

Hey adventurer, how did your talk go the other night?

Well, the best part of this whole story is that after she made such a show about how we needed to spend the time together, talk out our issues and re-connect, she made plans that night to meet a friend of ours to borrow a couple things from him. So we ended up meeting a friend that night and didn't talk about anything.
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fromheeltoheal
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« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2015, 03:21:39 PM »

Hey adventurer, how did your talk go the other night?

Well, the best part of this whole story is that after she made such a show about how we needed to spend the time together, talk out our issues and re-connect, she made plans that night to meet a friend of ours to borrow a couple things from him. So we ended up meeting a friend that night and didn't talk about anything.

Well OK then, and I bet your anxiety over it went away with the change of plans too, yes?  So are you getting better at mentally preparing for interactions with her?  The folks on the Staying board get pretty good at the skills that seem to work, but the overall key is just don't engage emotionally, stay mellow, act bored, don't say much; are you getting to a place where you can do that?
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adventurer
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« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2015, 03:47:27 PM »

Well OK then, and I bet your anxiety over it went away with the change of plans too, yes?  So are you getting better at mentally preparing for interactions with her? 

I've improved a lot. I've been in therapy for a couple years and became aware of BPD, this website and the associated literature about a year ago. I was undecided for a long time so tried very hard to learn and practice the necessary communication skills. It's still a struggle for me to not worry about her emotional reactions to things. I'm very much a codependent and will need a long time alone to get good with myself.
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« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2015, 03:53:57 PM »

Hi adventurer,

I understand. It's good to hear that your talking to a T. I think it's a learning curve with breaking our own habits and learning the communication tools.  I feel like every day I learn something and learning doesn't stop, I still work on the communication tools and validation. I think it takes time.
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« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2015, 04:58:59 PM »

lbjnltx, I offer my apologies to the group, for the tone of my message but not the message itself. We live in a world rife with moral judgement. The withdrawal and aftermath of these relationships test the emotional strength in us all. We endure a firestorm and try our best to cope, with the limited tools we have at our disposal. I overreacted but hopefully my reasons were understood. I appreciate everyone's patience.

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adventurer
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« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2015, 01:44:53 PM »

Finally had that 'talk'

Her main point is that I don't share anything emotionally with her. So, taking some of the advice I've read about disengaging and becoming 'boring' I just told her (truthfully) that I am extremely burnt out and kind of emotionally numb. That my life is just a treadmill of gym, work, lunch break (where I cook and clean for the both of us), work again, getting off work and immediately taking care of the garden, then cooking dinner and cleaning up again for the both of us. Of course, during this I don't mention my resentment that she does very little to help me with anything.

Her response to this sharing of feelings? She says if I feel too busy I should stop reading books. (She was very upset that the night previously I sat reading a book while she was watching tv instead of talking to her, apparently). So I told her, "I've just told you all this work I do that's causing me stress and your response is to tell me to stop doing one of the few relaxing, enjoyable activities I have in my life?" She then got after me for getting upset. And then the whole conversation turned to be about her feelings and how she was mad that when sharing my emotions and thoughts, nothing I said was about her and our relationship.

Having moved back to that familiar territory of talking about her feelings and emotions and not mine, I was able to reflect back the things she said and validate and she seems to be pleased with the result.
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