My uBPD mother accuses my dad of rape

[Terle]

Hi all.

So happy to have found this website. My mom has been beyond weird since i was a teenager (am 28 now) and its gotten worse and worse. I have tried to cut off all contact, but its been hard. Usually she wins me back over with guilt and pity. I feel confident she's sick, but she refuses to see a therapist or that she has a problem. To keep it short, the reason I am here now instead of 10 years ago, is that now it's too much. The lies, the hatred against others (always people I really like)... .She has a 'new' lie now, unfortunately this one i can't disprove which is why I am suffering from listening to it: She claims my dad raped her.

Its very painful for me, for obvious reasons, and also just cause I dont want a relationship no matter what has happened to her. She has been horrible to me for years on end. If she is telling the truth then I cant see my dad i guess, and then i am an orfan?

But truly, even though I usually always believe people who say they have been raped (I have myself been drugraped), i just DO NOT BELIEVE HER. She has lied for YEEAAARS. Someone please tell me you can relate? Why would she say such a horrid thing? Why would she tell me, only after she learns about my rape? Its like shes trying to steal "the spotlight"... .I just hate the way she is.

PLease help.

Terle

[Enoughforme]

Oh Terle, that is awful. First I am so sorry that you were violated in such a manner, and that she is putting you through that. Almost having to relive that pain.  I wish I could tell you that she is lying but of course I do not know. What I do know is patterns of this crap if she has lied before I am sure she is lying again. She just picked a big one to hurt you and 1 up you. How sick !  Is there any possible way you could ask your dad about this and gauge his reaction. Knowing your dad could you really see him doing this? Again I am so sorry I wish I could hug you. Please keep reading - and learning on the site.

[Glenna]

Hi Terle,

There are similarities between your mother and mine. I'll just tell a little about mine; maybe it will be helpful.

My mother had a poor grasp of reality in some areas. I honestly don't think she had the ability to deal with anything difficult and was then further stressed because of this. Her way of coping was often very weird. When I had cancer, she said I didn't have it and was actually angry at me. Whenever she could not deal with something she found a strange way of misreading it or making something up to negate the reality.

One day I realized that she would often wake up with a new and strange outlook on something that had been troubling her. Whatever her new idea was, it made the initial problem almost disappear, and her new creation was all that was left. It occurred to me then that she dreamt something and then took that to be the truth. This same sequence of events happened so many more times, that I came to believe that this was what was happening. It was her mind operating to make a 'truth' that would suit her needs. When she had one of these 'realizations,' there was no arguing with her. She would be certainty itself. Most of what she came up with was completely false and even nonsense, but all of these creations went into her 'reality' and her memory, and 'family history' as if they were true. When she told other people some of these things, I would be amazed at her ability to convince them of their truth. She could do this because she truly believed them. She never cared if her new idea hurt anyone,btw.

My mother had no diagnosis of any kind. In outward appearance and behavior, she was fine, even especially 'nice.'

Take care of yourself.

Glenna

[Terle]

Enoughforme> Yeah actually I asked my dad about it, he just seems a bit confused but also not, cause he has been living with her for 20 years before the divorce, so he knows what she is capable of.

Also I asked my younger brother if she was saying anything weird to him, cause I thought maybe it was just me (she is much nicer to him than to me).

And no, I cant see him doing such a thing. He has been the best dad, always there for me, the complete opposite of my mom. Since I was about 11 he has taken much more of an interest in me and my hobbies, where as my mom has always treated me as if my interest, values, beliefs and friends were sub par.

Anyways, my brother was like: Oh yeah, she's been saying that for a few years now, to get pity. I asked him if he believes her, he says he believes SHE feels like its true, but it probably isnt. And that she just feels so wronged by my dad, this feels fair to her. He says: "She says it cause it serves her needs"

Glenna> Yeah okay, that sounds like my mom. I'm glad to hear that im not all alone on this. My mom seems to make a new reality when something has happened that didn't go her way. Like, she left us when I was 14, but she always tells a story where we "pushed her out of the family" and she thinks we had a CONSPIRACY against her?

One example of many. I cant help but think like: my dad wanted a divorce, she didnt, the reality turned out unlike her wish, she made the rape story up... ?

[Auslaunder]

Terle,

One possibility is that this might be mirroring. You shared with her about your sexual assault and instead of processing that and providing you support for your suffering, she instead mirrored you by telling you she also suffered this. It's difficult for anyone to know what to say to help someone through a terrible experience they haven't themselves suffered. Those with BPD have a weak sense of self image. Mirroring comes across as empathy, as if they can think and feel as you do.

None of us live life in each others skin so mirroring is often trivalizing. BpD dont have emotional maturity to provide more support. Its so disappointing when we desperately need validation from a parent but they arent capable. Im so sorry.   Unfortunately her behavior has only increased your suffering  :'( and is causing anxiety about your father's character. BPD individuals have a weak grasp of reality, so questioning her truthfulness is appropriate. I sense that you feel conflicted questioning it as a victim of sexual assault yourself but nothing is black and white.

[Harri]

Hi Terle.  I think auslander brings up a good point about mirroring and described it well.  Never thought of that.  My mind went right to the whole "feelings are facts" with many BPDs and they often alter the facts to fit the feeling.  Also, I thought of emotional blackmail or manipulation.

Have you had a chance to read about FOG?  Emotional Blackmail: Fear, Obligation and Guilt (FOG)

If she is telling the truth then I cant see my dad i guess, and then i am an orfan?

I think it may be difficult to conclude with 100% certainty that she is lying although I see from your other post that you feel your father did not rape her.  Regardless, how about saying to yourself "He is my father and my parents relationship is really not my business and she should not be telling me this.  I will not give up my relationship with my father"  You could even say something to this effect directly to your mother.  I say that with one caveat though.  You know what will set her off to the point of no return and you know your own limits so if this is not possible in your situation, please disregard.  Speaking up and saying things like that to my mother worked very well for me.  Not because she understood or stopped doing things or making crazy demands, but because I needed to see and hear myself stand firm and speak my own truth regardless of her reaction.  I was already dirt in her eyes so it would not matter.  She already trashed me to family and friends, heck she would do it when I was standing in the same room so there was nothing she could do to me that I had not already survived.  Again, I know other people have different circumstances and such a strategy will not work for them.  Take what fits and leave the rest. 

Terle, regardless of why she is doing this, it is heartbreaking that this was her response to your sharing such a hurtful and damaging event in your life.  You needed someone to listen, feel outrage for you and let you cry or do and say whatever you needed to say and then hold you for as long as necessary.  I am sorry you did not get that.  We can give some of that to you here though.

[Terle]

Thank you for the replies!

Auslander> No I haven't heard of it, I'll google it right now.

And yes, I feel very conflicted: In a sense i feel like saying I don't believe her, is saying people shoudn't believe ME or my story.

Harri> I can understand the need to say it out loud to her, however I am too afraid. All the times i have tried to talk to her or even just read an email it almost always makes it worse... .Its like she finds new buttons to push, and i'm giving her clues of what she can hurt me with everytime we talk. Its like i'm seethrough with her... .

I have heard a bit about FOG and its the only reason she is still in my life! I guess with this particular thing i feel obligated to believe her, because I know thats what I yerned for after my rape... .

[Harri]

Hi again.  I understand the fear.  It sounds like saying something to your mother is not for you or your situation then.  Thats fine.  You might find saying it in your own head will give you a bit of emotional distance.  Might be worth a try?

One thing I gradually came to understand is that normal rules of behavior and interacting could not be used or applied in most situations with my mother.  I understand wanting to believe her when she talks about rape.  Is there anyway you can validate that she believes it happened and is true for her and leave it at that?  For her, it is truth so you can validate thatpart.

There is an article about validation that describes this quite well.  I am on a mobile and have no idea how to copy andpaste a link using that.

I hope you keep posting, reading and reaching out. 

[HappyChappy]

What a horrendous thing to lay at your child’s door. Especially considering you own experince.  So sorry you're having to go through all this.

A close friend works for the Police and deals with rape. Her experience will probably shock most people on this website, as clearly people write with earnest here, and there are clear motives behind people with PD rape. But she deals with everyone that walks into the station.

She tells me that “most” of the claims she deals with are from women trying to get back at their boyfriend/husband. The reason they suspect so many are made up, is because so many accuser have no evidence and contradict themselves in their own  resent testimony. There will no motive. The other type of account, is where it all happend so long ago that it’s their word against someone else, again no reason for them leaving it so long (other than plenty of time to lose evidence). In our country you, rightly so, must investigate all rape, but that leaves it open to this sort of abuse. The realy victums then have to wait in line after the "game players".

What would be your father’s motive for rape ? I understand it's about power, but normal a BPD holds the "power", unless your dad is NPD. Your BPD clearly has a motive to lie, it’s in their DNA as a way to manipulate. It may bring you closer to her (mirroring), it  may be vengeance on something your dad did. It may just be a way of keeping trauma in your BPD life, a place many BPD feel familiar with.

Would you not normaly first speek about rape with your piers, or the authorities ? It would clearly upset any child, so they would only need to know if it when to court.  I’m not saying that’s what’s happening here, but if your spider senses say she’s lying, and we all know a BPD  lie, then I’d  trust your instinct on this. Let he discuss this with the Police. You're right to keep your distance, maybe she's just uping the anti to draw you in and get your attention ? Wishing you peace.  

[Sunfl0wer]

Whether your mom was raped by your dad or not, IDK. 

However, I feel that what your mom is doing is an intentional violation to you as her child.  I feel that she is intentionally putting you in a position to choose sides: mom or dad

I wonder if she hopes that you will "join alliances" with her and soothe her as a victim?  I know my exBF with some BPD traits could not tolerate me feeing weak and a victim.  He would not paint himself a greater victim, but he would find a way to emotionally kick me while I was down.  He would reject me in some way like ST, or just avoid me.

I think what others have said here is excellent.

I believe many persons with PD or traits get overwhelmed vs being a strength for us.  They feel like they need support so they often find a way to make it about them.  I find this most frustrating. 

A time like this, when you really want some support and understanding from your mom... .She just emotionally abandons you, and villifies your dad so she tries to pretty much double abandon you... .  and flips the tables parentifying you as though SHE is the one needing support right now.  (I wonder if she thinks your rape means she is a bad mom?)

So sorry!

[Terle]

Happychappy> Thank you for the input and I think you have some good points. Yeah she has a lot of motivs, and my dad is not a Narc. The only issue I think he has is sometimes he rages a bit, but quickly comes around. Never violent.

She tells me that “most” of the claims she deals with are from women trying to get back at their boyfriend/husband. The reason they suspect so many are made up, is because so many accuser have no evidence and contradict themselves in their own  resent testimony.

This though I find a little disturbing as a victim. Maybe its true in the states (or where your friend works?), but I highly doubt that "most" claims are fake. In Denmark where i live, research shows that its probably about 2-7% of rapeclaims that are fake, which is so low it shouldnt be discussed as much as our media do. I believe that most of the fake claims (that I dont believe are most of what is reported) come from mentally ill women though.

[Auslaunder]

Terle,

Your mother's revelation is likely emotional blackmail. That is why it causes so much conflict and inner turmoil. A person cannot just tell their mother they think she lied about such a serious matter or press her for evidence. Lying this way seems unconscionable for normal people.

My BPDf causes me this type of conflict by presenting his actions or advice as having good intentions but the outcomes will likely be immoral, hurtful, or otherwise negative. I can be confused for days figuring out what to do. I realized though that he tries to manipulate me to do things that aren't in my self interest, so I have to believe in my own ability to make decisions.

Emotional blackmail is a mostly unconscious form of manipulation to prevent caretakers from leaving or abandoning the BPD. Your mother may see your relationship with your father as a threat to your relationship with her. There are three parts: shame, guilt and fear (FOG). Do you feel any of those emotions when you think about the possibility your father raped your mother? Or that you might not be supporting a fellow rape survivor? Emotional blackmail can be very effective. Clearing the "FOG" allows us to see the situation for what it is.

[Terle]

Sunflower> Thank you for a wise answer.

I actually forgot this, but yeah, my mum hates it when I am "weak". When my ex dumped me out of nowhere she was like "You'll be over it in a month" - I knew I wouldnt be. So when she called months later and asked how i was, I said "bad" cause it was the truth. She sighed and said "Just turn to God already". When I was a kid and got carsick she wouldn't let me just sit and rest, she would drag me out on mountainclimbs even tough i begged not to. When I had nightmares and came crying to her, she yelled at me for waking her up and said; "Lick the floor clean!" (Yeah its not a metaphor, she wanted me to. She has a ocd-like fetish with cleaning) Once as a young adult I got a panickattack at a mall, and when I came home, she was just annoyed i spent money on a cab getting home.

Emotional blackmail is a mostly unconscious form of manipulation to prevent caretakers from leaving or abandoning the BPD. Your mother may see your relationship with your father as a threat to your relationship with her. There are three parts: shame, guilt and fear (FOG). Do you feel any of those emotions when you think about the possibility your father raped your mother? Or that you might not be supporting a fellow rape survivor?

Yeah I have been distancing myself more from her since the newyear (When she asked me to turn to God). Seems like the hate toward my dad has grown since then. I think she is very afraid i will hold on to my resolve to cut ties this time. She can sense i have been more serious.

She definately has used FOG to keep me in her life for over 5 years now, more like 10. In this case I dont know. I feel guilty for saying shes a liar if shes not, of course. I feel obligated to believe my fellow victims. Fear i dont feel in this case.

Other than I am always a bit scared of my mum, and never my dad. I love him... .He is my best supporter.