Boundaries

[klacey3]

So I have been reflecting about my relationship with my suspected BPD/NPD ex boyfriend and I was thinking about boundaries.

I used to try to put boundaries in place alot. Eg. If you continue to do x I won't put up with it. If you ever do Z again I will leave and never take you back. He would agree to it but as soon as he did something that crossed a boundary and I tried to talk to him about it he would tell me to shutup and stop asking him questions/insult me/or change the subject. Because i couldnt talk to him about it I would not talk to him because I was upset. He didnt like being ignored either so he would then do the thing i told him if he did I would leave him over. He tried to justify it saying "i said i wouldnt do that before you did this. You are disrespecting me by asking me questions i dont want to answer/talk about so now im going to do something you dont like. Now its fair"

I was just wondering did I handle the situation all wrong. I alot of people on here talk about installing boundaries while they were in the relationship, but for me I tried putting them in place but it never ever worked. He would cross them and use my boundaries as a threat. Eg. "Welll if you dont meet me tonight im going to do *thing i told him i would leave him for if he ever did*

Did it ever work for you? Do pwBPD ever learn from their mistakes and learn to respect boundaries?

(Just to let you know I do not want to get back with my ex, I am just curious to know as I dont know whether I just wasnt very good at boundary setting)

[Lifewriter16]

Hi klacey3

Boundaries! What a source of frustration and confusion they have been for me.

As I was reading your post, I began thinking about some of the things I see parents of children do when I'm out and about. I might hear a parent say "If you do X one more time, then we'll go home". The kid then does X again and they don't go home. Very quickly the kid learns that the boundaries mean nothing. I think this is because the parents don't have graduated and immediate repercussions to use when disciplining the children so they can't actually enforce the boundaries. Boundaries that are not enforced consistently are useless. It sounds to me that you have in effect been saying X is a deal breaker (ie I'll leave) when actually, it wasn't a deal breaker and you would have benefited from a series of smaller repercussions. eg If you say X one more time, I will leave the room until you calm down.

My apologies - I have to go... .my visitors have arrived.

Love Lifewriter

[Michelle27]

This was a tough lesson for me.  I didn't have boundaries, or at least I thought I did but they meant nothing when I didn't follow through.  I tried making boundaries for awhile and thought I was doing the right thing when in fact, I wasn't following through with my stated consequence, so they were completely meaningless.

[Darsha500]

If only I had a clearer understanding of boundaries early in the relationship. Nope, I had to learn the hard way.

Its funny, early on in the relationship I went to see the reverend of the Unitarian church I attend. I told her about what I was experiencing with my ex, how she had BPD, and the topic of boundaries came up at one point.

Upon hearing that word, something clicked, but not fully. I thought, yes there seems to be some sort of issue with boundaries. I asked her if she knew of any books that talked about boundaries but unfortunately she never got back to me on the subject. It wasn't till after the breakup that i started reading and finding some clear definitions of what constitutes "boundaries."

Boundaries are something I think everyone has a sort of intuitive, tacit grasp on, but I found explicit definitions of boundaries incredibly enlightening. I learned the hard way what boundaries are, by witnessing my brittle walls being demolished.

My ex even realized that our lack of boundaries was problematic, implicitly. She realized that when she blow up my phone with texts when she was dysregulated - talking about all kinds of heavy relationship ___, sending me photos of conversations she was having with others about me, all kinds of things that would have been better left on said - it was causing me pain. We made an agreement not to discuss heavy stuff through text. She even tried to put into practice this alanon technique used before disclosing information: "Is it kind, is it important, is it true, etc." But to no avail.

The way she sort of gaslighted me into thinking it was okay was by telling me that I was afraid of the truth, and that i was afraid of my feelings, that i was inauthentic, that she had to "walk on egg shells around me." (ironic right) I bought that. I figured, alright, I want to be there for her, so i need to let her vent. I can just be mindful and take it. "Holding space for her." I just have to show her unconditional positive regard and let her go off on her tirades.

Its interesting. I drew a connection with my youth. My mom use to confide in me when i was in early adolescence. She would tell me about all her problems, and I would listen. I would be empathetic towards her to show that I was there for her and that I understood where she was coming from. I wanted to help her, so i listened to her, and tried to offer her counsel. The site has an article on it, its called emotional incest, and those who underwent it often have ___ boundaries in adulthood.

Anyway, what I realize now is... .NO!

When one has an itch, the natural response is to scratch. When one is tired, one closes their eyes. This is the our natural state of being. Likewise, if someone says or does something that I find unpleasant, my natural response is to somehow avoid that unpleasantness. This is MY right. I am worthy of this right, I am worthy of respect, and I am worthy of love. Sometimes i forget this.

I forgot about my intrinsic worthiness during my relationship. The love I received from my ex during the honeymoon phase was intoxicating. My ego boundaries fell, as did hers, and in that way we were united. But thats just the feeling of being "In love," not true love. Which has been defined by Scott peck as the extension of oneself for the purpose of another's spiritual growth.

Anyways, I forgot my intrinsic worthiness. Being wanted and needed became my source of worthiness. So, rather than assert my self, I allowed myself to be a doormat. I was afraid of what might happen if I were to assert myself. She'd leave me! I just had to wait it out, wait it out until she gets therapy. Until we can start some DBT classes together. That was my mentality.

What a lesson I have learned. Never again will I be so quick to allow my boundaries to crumble. I AM IN CHARGE OF THEM. I AM THE ONE WHO UPHOLDS AND SUPPORTS THEM! It is up to me. And because I am worthy of deep, true love, I am dedicated to upholding my boundaries and maintaining my separateness as an individual.

In this way I am grateful for the insanity. It has taught me so much. I has certainly prepared me for a healthy relationship in the future. Now that I know what dysfunction looks like so acutely.

Saying yes when I want to and no when I want to. So simple.

[HappyNihilist]

The key to boundaries is to enforce them consistently. This doesn't mean saying you'll do something if X happens, and then talking about it after X happens instead of actually following through with your action. This sends a message that you won't defend your boundaries.

Anyone, BPD or not, will learn that you won't tolerate certain behavior if you consistently reinforce your boundaries. And boundaries are healthy for both partners. It's in the pwBPD's best interest not to engage in destructive behavior, after all.

This is a good article on the subject - Setting Boundaries and Setting Limits. I personally learned a lot about what I was doing 'wrong' with my boundary setting, and how to develop clear, realistic boundaries based on my personal values.

Early in my relationship, I actually had boundaries that I would enforce. Then my exBPDbf found my true, deep vulnerability, and all of my boundaries disappeared completely. But when I was enforcing boundaries, he did respect them. We had a pretty peaceful relationship during those times.

[SGraham]

Bounderies has probably been the hardest concept for me to grasp. I have tried to grasp which areas i failed in enforcing my own boundaries. I think the main one would be in communications, my ex would frequently not text me back which really triggerd my anxiety but i never really disscussed it until the very end.

[once removed]

The key to boundaries is to enforce them consistently.

BINGO. this was a conversation i had with my ex after her rages, when shed apologize. i noticed there were certain lines she would never cross. she was never physical. she would slag me, but there were certain things she might have said that might have caused me to leave; she never said them. there were some boundaries. on the other hand, i threatened to leave often; i never did. she learned nothing as a result. but to happynihilists point, it shouldnt have been about me teaching her. boundaries are about us. boundaries must be applied consistently, and if our boundary is leaving as a result of them being busted repeatedly, we exit the situation.

there is such a thing as boundaries that are too rigid. your soul mate, best buddy of all time, is capable of crossing them and probably will, despite their best intent. you dont have to cut them out of your life. you let them know, they will tend to show you that they respect them. you dont continue to move the line backward.

[HappyNihilist]

I think the main one would be in communications, my ex would frequently not text me back which really triggerd my anxiety but i never really disscussed it until the very end.

What is your specific boundary around this, SGraham?

[SGraham]

I think the main one would be in communications, my ex would frequently not text me back which really triggerd my anxiety but i never really disscussed it until the very end.

What is your specific boundary around this, SGraham?

Well that's where im not sure if what im thinking classifies as a boundry or not. I think what im getting at was, in my mind ignoring your partner is immature and unacceptable especially when one person in the r/s has anxiety and such behaviour is hurtful.

[SGraham]

Perhaps a need or requirment would be a better way to put it. 

[klacey3]

The key to boundaries is to enforce them consistently. This doesn't mean saying you'll do something if X happens, and then talking about it after X happens instead of actually following through with your action. This sends a message that you won't defend your boundaries.

Anyone, BPD or not, will learn that you won't tolerate certain behavior if you consistently reinforce your boundaries. And boundaries are healthy for both partners. It's in the pwBPD's best interest not to engage in destructive behavior, after all.

This is a good article on the subject - Setting Boundaries and Setting Limits. I personally learned a lot about what I was doing 'wrong' with my boundary setting, and how to develop clear, realistic boundaries based on my personal values.

Early in my relationship, I actually had boundaries that I would enforce. Then my exBPDbf found my true, deep vulnerability, and all of my boundaries disappeared completely. But when I was enforcing boundaries, he did respect them. We had a pretty peaceful relationship during those times.

So the only way boundaries would have worked in my relationship was to leave  6 months before I did... he always had to win and be up one from me. I would try and have a conversation he wanted about somethint and he would insult me/change the subject/make a threat to cross a bigger boundary. in the same day he would then expect me to just forget it ever happened and be fine with him. If i wasnt, he would cross my known boundary knowing that its something i said i would walk away from.

So the only thing I could do was to leave. In his eyes asking him questions or talking to him about something he has done to upset me is disrespectful so he said it was only fair if he did something to disrespect me back - eg. Flirt with other women on dating sites. That was a dealbreaker for me. Is there anything else I could have done to install boundaries? I know some people say ignoring is immature but he would not have discussion with me about our problems so ignoring him when i was upset was the only way to express it. This only lead him to threaten something else. 

[once removed]

So the only thing I could do was to leave. In his eyes asking him questions or talking to him about something he has done to upset me is disrespectful so he said it was only fair if he did something to disrespect me back - eg. Flirt with other women on dating sites. That was a dealbreaker for me. Is there anything else I could have done to install boundaries? I know some people say ignoring is immature but he would not have discussion with me about our problems so ignoring him when i was upset was the only way to express it. This only lead him to threaten something else. 

pwBPD, largely speaking, have great difficulty with boundaries. in fact i have seen several members report their ex actually saying they do not like boundaries.

is ignoring immature? my ex was diagnosed with bipolar. early on in the relationship when she started raging at me (90% of the time over the phone or by text) she would wind up offering the most heartfelt apologies she could. she would take 100% of the blame. she would tell me that when she was like that, she meant nothing that she said. of course, it was not that simple, but i took her word for it. i would think oh okay, all i have to do is ignore it and ride it out until she calms down. sometimes i succeeded and thats exactly how it went. i would pretty much always read what she was saying at the time though, and i would wind up responding. things would only escalate. sometimes id try to abandon the conversation again after responding. again, things would only escalate. sometimes she would threaten certain things to get me to respond. the only person i could control here, the person not consistently enforcing his boundaries, was me.

lets remove BPD from the equation for a moment. what if the ONLY problem in our relationship was that she sometimes went into rages via text? what if i never read a word of it, it stopped, and then things were fine? could i have lived with that? maybe. i wouldnt really recommend it, but maybe. that situation would still require consistent boundaries.

its a double edged sword. the most successful relationships on the staying board include strong, consistent boundaries. it is also true that a pwBPD may react to those boundaries, and it is also true that they may force the ending of the relationship.

[fromheeltoheal]

I think the main one would be in communications, my ex would frequently not text me back which really triggerd my anxiety but i never really disscussed it until the very end.

What is your specific boundary around this, SGraham?

Well that's where im not sure if what im thinking classifies as a boundry or not. I think what im getting at was, in my mind ignoring your partner is immature and unacceptable especially when one person in the r/s has anxiety and such behaviour is hurtful.

How about not returning your message and ignoring you is disrespectful, empowering relationships are based on mutual trust and respect, you have a boundary such that you won't tolerate being disrespected, and you'd appreciate it if she'd respect that boundary.  And then, once that's settled, you can have the conversation about how it makes you feel when someone treats you like that, but only after there's agreement that the boundary will be respected.

[hopealways]

Problem with borderlines is that once you put up one boundary you have to work on putting up the next one. So your life becomes a series of boundary creations and that is no way to live. Yes in THEORY creating boundaries works but there is another solution too: getting the heck outta dodge!  Having to be the caretaker of a child in an adult's body is no way to have a healthy relationship.

[HappyNihilist]

I think the main one would be in communications, my ex would frequently not text me back which really triggerd my anxiety but i never really disscussed it until the very end.

What is your specific boundary around this, SGraham?

Well that's where im not sure if what im thinking classifies as a boundry or not. I think what im getting at was, in my mind ignoring your partner is immature and unacceptable especially when one person in the r/s has anxiety and such behaviour is hurtful.

It is hurtful and immature, I agree. 

It takes work to learn how to set good boundaries, when we're not used to it. We may have harsh, unrealistic boundaries, or we may have few if any at all. We probably have a flawed idea of what boundaries are.

The good news is that, like almost anything in life, setting good boundaries is something that can be learned and done. We just have to be willing to take ownership and do our part.

you have a boundary such that you won't tolerate being disrespected, and you'd appreciate it if she'd respect that boundary.  And then, once that's settled, you can have the conversation about how it makes you feel when someone treats you like that, but only after there's agreement that the boundary will be respected.

The problem that arises with boundaries like this is that it's still dependent upon someone else's actions.

It takes work. Developing realistic, good boundaries has been hard for me, I know. The BOUNDARIES - Living our values workshop was a huge help for me when I was trying to wrap my head around the concept.

Values, boundaries, and boundary defense are a commitment to myself, not an attempt to force change or control another person.

An important aspect of "boundaries" is that it sometimes takes some effort to grasp is the idea that values are a commitment to myself  - not an attempt to force change or control another person.

The struggles of defending (setting) boundaries is often an issue that overlaps greatly with co-dependent tendencies or not having healthy relationship practices.  Many people with codependent tendencies lean toward "knowing" well what other people need to do, but struggle greatly to re-focus their attention onto themselves.  When the focus goes back on the self, some people struggle to know who they are, what they want, or to take responsibility for how to get it.

So, the quandary can be - "I want this, and I want it from/with a certain person".  What we want may be attainable in a relationship with the desired person, or it may not.  Part of being responsible for our own well being is accepting this.

Values/boundaries, in practice, is a statement about one's self.  So, if we consider the codependent tendency, early in the process of going from an unhealthy pattern to a healthy pattern - early in the process, we might tend to focus on the behavior of others as the solution (e.g. If so-and-so would do this,THEN I would be OK).  So early boundary defense attempts can look like "I'm going to do xyz so that my SO/parent will do this".  This is not living a value or defending a boundary.  Instead, it is really an attempt to control the behavior of another person.  The way to check this is to consider your motivation.  Are we, in our attempt to defend a boundary, trying to change the behavior of another, or just stating what we are willing to do/not do?  If we are trying to change another what we are doing is really an attempt to control or get what we not and this is not healthy.

Values/boundaries are about knowing who we are and what we will choose to participate in.  So, a boundary looks more like, "I will choose to participate in abc ... .I will not participate in xwy".  There is no statement in this "values/boundary" about what someone else needs to do, only about the self.  Boundaries require a sense of personal responsibility.  My well being is my responsibility, not the result of someone else's behavior.