Do they feel bad about the things they say?

[Bigmd]

I'm sure this topic is covered already but I'm gonna vent. Today is my exgf's birthday , and while I have no inclination to text her I was thinking about our last conversation and the way she talked to me. In the past before I knew of the disorder and we were carrying on while I was married, we would argue and she would say some really nasty things. When we made up she would always tell me how bad she felt about the way  she talked to me. Right now I'm starting to think they really don't  give a s$&t. It seemed like she took pleasure in telling me how she told her kids that we were not together anymore. That hurt because I was pretty close to them. Anyone want to add to this?

[Corgicuddler95]

I think so but only after a while and during times of need. I've mentioned seeing my ex recently and having a heart to heart, I apologised for a bunch of things but when I explained what she'd done that really hurt me she just waved it away saying it was because of anxiety,ms he showed know recourse for my feelings. Clearly I'm still painted the blackest of blacks.

[Bigmd]

Yes me too. I don't think I could be blacker. When I look back on the last two arguments , she made everything my fault.

[Butterfly12]

My realization that my husband could physically attack me and blame me for my reaction (having him arrested) and then flat out denying he did wrong makes me think that no, they don't feel bad. In fact there is no concept that they acted inappropriately. None.

[scgator]

At one point after I left my exgf said she hit the hardest and lowest that she ever has before. And during our last phone conversation when she was asking why I couldn't be friends she said she didn't know why I would want to have anything to do with her after everything she's done to me. Yet it seemed kind of trivial - like "oh well" and no remorse, which I know they don't feel. To this day I'm pretty sure I'm still blamed for everything.

[Kennyble]

"Hope you die of lung cancer" while smoking a cigar.

":)irty filthy lying backstabbing coward" while disagreeing on a small matter

"I never needed help before I met you" while discussing her BPD diagnosis

"You are the one that makes me crazy" (often)

Etc. etc, and many many more.

Never a hint of regret or remorse about anything. Not even a sniff of it. No recognition that she might have said something out of order.

Pfft.

Yet I love her still. How mad is that? Perhaps finally coming to terms with my own issues?

[Bigmd]

Yup. Mine would always say about the silent treatments that I get her so mad she jus shuts down. Like an idiot I went with it.

[balletomane]

My ex doesn't even remember the awful things he said to me. I'm sure he's not lying, he genuinely doesn't remember. I think this is a dissociative symptom for him - in times of heightened emotion he explodes and then can't really remember the specifics of what happened except for the general emotions he felt, not what he said and did.

He never apologised but he remembers himself apologising. I think this is because his idea of what constitutes an apology is saying something like, "Well, I was irrational" and making some other explanation, not, "I hurt you and I'm sorry." There was a massive double standard there, because he used to refuse my apologies unless I had stated what I'd done wrong to his satisfaction and then expressed remorse for every aspect of it. He would rarely accept an apology, and only after days of pleading.

I am not sure if he feels remorse. I know that many people with BPD do - it's important to remember that they are different individuals, and some may genuinely feel very sorry without fully understanding what they've done, or understand what they've done only in hindsight. But where my ex is concerned I honestly don't know.

[SummerStorm]

I recently told my former friend BPD's ex-boyfriend that I had a terrible summer because she discarded me for no reason, and he replied, "Yeah, she didn't really even seem to care."  He also added that she told him I'm crazy.  So, that's how she justified everything.  In July, she sent me a card, and at the end, she wrote, "I hope you have a good summer."  It's like she didn't care about the awful things she said to me and didn't realize how they affected me.  She didn't even apologize for anything.   

Whenever she would choose her ex-boyfriend over me (she said she wanted to leave him), she would act like everything was great.  She couldn't understand why I was so upset.

She's said some completely awful things to me, and she shows absolutely no remorse.   

[Mutt]

It seemed like she took pleasure in telling me how she told her kids that we were not together anymore. That hurt because I was pretty close to them. Anyone want to add to this?

Hi Bigmd,

Ouch. My ex checked out of the last year of the marriage had an affair and wanted a divorce that I didn't want. The last few months were hell with borderline rages nearly everyday. She was triggered with her shame with cheating and was that anger was directed at someone close to her ( me )  She left with him and had a smear campaign that likely started months before she left. We barely spoke the last few months, she simply said she was moving on.

I tried to talk to her about three weeks after she came out about her boyfriend,  she had moved out at her new place and I spoke to her when I picked up the kids said "I'm not sexually attracted to you, you're more like a brother to me" That hurt. I was her husband.

I was split black and it was difficult after the break-up with the her hostility and acting out when she was in her honeymoon with her boyfriend. Many members share similar stories here. That said, about a year and a half later she wrote the words in an email that was unrelated to the context of her message and she said "I'm sorry for how I left".

It wasn't much for what she had put me through but another member here had posted, you're lucky that you got an apology Mutt, my ex hasn't given me any at least your ex shows some empathy. My ex is overwhelmed with her feelings and it's hard for her to display empathy for others sometimes. I think that she felt bad for what she did, I meant something to her. She has social impairments and I took her apology and ran with it.

It sounds like your is hurt and she's trying to make you feel as hurt as she is. She's said sorry to you in the past and she may say sorry again to you sometime in the future? For now it sounds like she may be lashing out in anger.

[willtimeheal]

I don't think they feel bad about the things they say.  If they actually acknowledged the things they said it would be too much for them. It would be like  looking in a mirror and seeing their faults ... .they can't handle it. So they change the reality in their minds. They probably don't remember what they said or they remember it differently... .they have to for survival. If they actually "saw" themselves for the ill person they are they couldn't handle it. So they survive by changing their reality. That's my take on it.

[Bigmd]

Hey Mutt, yeah it hurt. I was so confused, I didn't know how the woman that just two weeks before was saying how I treat her like a princess was treating me like an enemy. Anyway that last argument ended with her saying she didn't need me, my money, or my engagement ring. Also said she didn't know if I really loved her. It wasn't till I learned about BPD that I realize she may be afflicted. She wished me the best ( gee thanks) and that was last time we talked.

[Learning Fast]

Ballet brings up a good point.  Apologies (the very few times when they occurred) from my UBPDgf were delivered in these ways:

---In the context of how SHE felt at the time---not acknowledging my feelings ("I'm venting because MY life is in such an uproar", "MY world is just so random at times", etc).

---Rarely unsolicited

---Almost always via text

---No eye contact when delivered in person

Thinking of her behavior as that of a child helps immensely in depersonalizing the impact.

[Bigmd]

Learning, I never actually got apologies. She would always say they don't mean anything. Which also means she never accepted them from me. Makes me wonder why I still sometimes want to reach out to her . WTH is wrong with me.

[Mutt]

Hi Bigmd,

I completely understand. Many members can relate with wanting to reach out. Often these relationship break-ups are confusing and chaotic and we're looking for answers.

The last argument doesn't sound like she gave you closure. When two adults end a r/s often they will give each other a sensible reason why the r/s is ending. Your ex was saying how you were treating her like a princess two weeks before and then rejected you.

I can see how that would be incredibly confusing and painful. There are many reasons why we may want to reach put but do you feel like a reason you may be that you're seeking closure?

[Bigmd]

Yea I guess closure but sometimes I really just miss her .

[Michelle27]

I received apologies but without the behavior change that was always promised.  To me, they aren't real apologies then.

[Learning Fast]

Michelle---half felt apologies that weren't accompanied by any change in behavior.  Practicing radical acceptance conditioned me to realize that an apology that is half felt is all that she could give based on her disorder.  It also helped to depersonalize the behavior.

[Mutt]

I received apologies but without the behavior change that was always promised.  To me, they aren't real apologies then.

I can relate with that. I think that's a valid point. I gave it a lot of thought and I realized that she has social impairments, she's not like me, I can't expect her to be like me because she can't, she suffers from mental illness, everyone's different.

Some people have a lot of internal suffering and they may not be able to give a real apology. The little she gave may be all that she can give. I accept that.

[madison46]

I don't till the lashing out affects them and then it's 50/50 on whether it is sincere or not.  JMHO

[once removed]

hey bigmd 

there are so many situations, scenarios, and characteristics of the disorder that may or may not answer your question.

BPD has a strong shame/attempt to avoid shame component. this might explain the apologies and remorse, or the seeming lack there of.

projection is a common behavior. in essence, the person projecting is projecting their shame onto you, projecting thought and feelings too uncomfortable to accept in themselves.

black and white thinking. you are either all good, or all bad. the manner of which youre informed where you stand is... .often excessive.

disproportionate anger in general.

dissociation. the person saying the "thing" in question may have either not been fully, mentally present when they said it, or it has been seemingly wiped from memory, or both.

over the course of my relationship, the extent to which my ex felt bad or not took on a certain trajectory. the earlier toward the beginning, the more heartfelt apologies i received, the more she was willing to take on 100% of the blame, deny she meant any of it, etc. i remember sometimes i would claim to accept her apology, but want to read some of the things she said back to her and ask her to square it. this would understandably upset her; i was reinforcing her shame. closer toward the end there would be little to no acknowledgment, and certainly no willingness to take on any blame. there was a near last straw where i told her we were breaking up and wouldnt really respond to her for a while. i was a little flabbergasted when i got a nonchalant text about yeah sorry for what i said but tell me if we are really breaking up. obviously i didnt truly want to or at least wasnt ready, but there was no empathy, no remorse, and she didnt seem to care about the result, just wanted an answer. shame is the root here, the person, behaviors, the nature of your relationship, those are the variables.

[cj488]

"I want nothing more than to spend the rest of my life with you, I love you, I want you," and so on, etc.

Then after I risk my entire life for her, she cheerfully tells me:

"My dog is much more important to me than you are." "I despise you, you're worthless, you can't do anything right." And so on.

Never any remorse, nor apology, nothing, even after a year. And she still can't understand why I don't want to get back together. I know that's her Bpd talking, her projections, but still. Not worth it.

[LifeIsBeautiful]

In my opinion, if they did feel bad and even apologize, it only lasts until the next time they say it again or say something worse. Waiting for the other shoe to drop, walking on eggshells... .I didn't like it when I first read about these phrases and realised I could be in that situation. But it holds a lot of truth in it.

[Mr Hollande]

about a year and a half later she wrote the words in an email that was unrelated to the context of her message and she said "I'm sorry for how I left".

It wasn't much for what she had put me through but another member here had posted, you're lucky that you got an apology Mutt, my ex hasn't given me any at least your ex shows some empathy. My ex is overwhelmed with her feelings and it's hard for her to display empathy for others sometimes. I think that she felt bad for what she did, I meant something to her. She has social impairments and I took her apology and ran with it.

I had similar words from mine a few months ago. She said sorry for everything she'd done. I'm sure she feels bad but I believe it's more about needing to be let off the hook rather than actually regretting how poorly she treated yet another person who loved her so much. She wanted me to grant her the peace she needs to get on with her life. Crude as it may be, my forgiveness may as well have been a car, money, sex, a bottle of whiskey, drugs or whatever flavour of the month she clings to so she can through another day. She needed soothing and she's not getting it from me. She has no right to ask me for anything, least of all peace of mind. I left it with a "that's totally out of the question, please never contact me again".

Was that harsh? Am I unfair? Well I picture her going "thanks Hollande, thanks for the get out of jail card sucker, Now I'm off to the next victim, whoohoo!". Like buying her a ticket to the next merry go round so she can climb on board and get back to throwing people off for fun. I could not have looked myself in the mirror had I done that. Some of her other victims may have chosen to run down the "apology" route but not me. What she owes she can owe for the rest of her days. She earned it so she can keep it.

My advice to anyone hoping for genuine regret and a sincere apology is don't pin any hopes on it. Should it come it's more likely to be about them than about you. Also as others have pointed out, as their emotions change from day to day so do their needs. Even if it was heartfelt, by their standards, it may not mean to them what something like that would mean to the rest of us.