New Revelation

[Pou]

Okay... here it goes.  People here may have read events that had happened to me in the past 8 years.  All intensified after my first child was born.  I was confused, and didnt know what was going on ... .big time in the FOG.  Arrested, wrongfully accused.  Was warned and didn't believe it.  Anyway, past 8 years and counting has been hell on earth.  In the past month, I had a new revelation.   Initially, I thought it was all my fault, bending back wards and did everything my wife wanted, and yet somehow the blame is the same and they all something that I didn't do and she was actually doing them.  So I thought projections and thought it was an Disorder.  So initially I thought she had BPD, then I realize she more fits the NPD ... .and then not exactly... .so I read and searched and read some more... .I got really really ill after I realize what she has ... .I read the book by Robert D Hare "without conscience" and also "Snakes in Suits".  I was ill instantly ... .3 days that my stomach felt like someone punched me in the gut.  Precisedly fit the profile... .  for all of you have lingering questions about your SO's exact behavior diagnosis ... .if you have reached NPD level and still felt there is something not quite right.  You got to read "without conscience" ... .it is a very good book describing psychopathy... .also "snake in suits" ... .really good at detailing behavior patterns of Psychopath.  I hate to use the word psychopath because i always thought that implies someone who kills without conscience.  NOT SO... .I was educated by Robert D Hare.  What a wonderful book for me seeing exactly who I am dealing with... .I felt ill knowing there won't be anything that I can do to improve my wife.  I felt so enlightened and so destroyed at the same time... .still trying to deal with the reality.  I have to say that I haven't completely accept it yet... .but my viceral reaction says it all.  Anyone who has read books by Rober D Hare, I would love to hear your feedback and your experience if you are also dealing with a psychopath.  I just want to know that I am not alone with my journey.

[Pou]

I am not even sure if I belong on PD forum.  But since PD is more a character trait and i believe psychopathy is also a character trait.  I am wondering if there are people here who stuck on thinking their partner or someone they know has NPD, but actually it is more of psychopathy.  That was why I posted this message and the one before.  I know some people lump NPD and Psychopathy together ... .but I see a difference.  In my mind, andy disorder implies there is a chance to correct it.  Once you get into the Psychopathy territory ... .it is clear that there is not going to be any hope.  would like to have some feedback on this ... .thanks.

[Lou12]

Hi Pou,

Whilst I haven't read any of the aforementioned books I do possibly believe that my ex BPD could fall into the ASPD bracket.

Some psychologists believe that all cluster b disorders are on the one spectrum (I am leaning towards this theory as well).

I've got to say after extensive research I can't actually find major differences amongst personality disordered individuals.

[JohnLove]

The term Borderline in Borderline Personality Disorder MEANS on the borderline between neurotic and psychotic. They go back and forth over that fence, sometimes swinging wildly.

It sounds as though yours spends too much of her time on the psychotic side of things.

Thanks for the tip. I'll take a peek at the author to see if there's anything there relevant to my situation.

[Daniell85]

There was a recent brain study by a UK person. As it turns out the brain structure of psychopaths is physically different than the average person.

Before I came to this site, I spent a lot of time looking into psychopathology/NPD/Sociopathology. It was very disturbing to me, because when you head into that sort of thing, it almost becomes an esoteric or spiritual thing. What is good, what is evil.

I was very afraid that my boyfriend is a psychopath. He shows about zero remorse for some pretty ugly behavior and seems to lack capacity for empathy.

I was hoping it was just BPD. I still don't know. What I have learned most of all in the last few months is that it is up to me to decide if me being involved with him is going to damage me in ways that are destructive to me and should I protect myself. How should I? And that is up to me to figure out. So far, I am protecting myself by keeping contact very low. It doesn't mean I don't love him.

Are you considering if there is a way that YOU can be healthy in a relationship with your wife? I think to myself what conditions I need. Are they likely. For me there is still a maybe.

You sound like you are pretty much in shock atm. It's hard to figure out a direction to go under those conditions.

[Pou]

Lou12 and JohnyLove, For the past eight years, 24/7, I have been living with a psychopath.  Ever since I read the books by Rober D Hares, I started to piece back my life with my wife and since day one, there were signs and traces of hints.  And things started to make sense ... .more sense then the materials about PDs.  As a male, I think we tend to "minimize" psychopathy in females to sometime of disorder that as if we can fix it.  It is a cultural perception thing.  I will give you an example, if you don't believe me about there are more female psychopaths then the statistics said, the over controlling tendencies of moms on kids and exercise that control at all cost, is not a sign of love.  It is a sign of irrational possessive behavior.  To the extend, lying to justify blatant disregard of feelings of the children and Dads' opinions, that in the basic level is a trait for psychopathy.  Even in Robert D. Hare's books he actually still believe there are more male psychopaths then females.  My experiences have been that I keep run into female psychopaths and I think most people "perceive" women are physically weaker so when crocodile tears start to flow, everyone feels bad.  And all is forgiven or truth is being manipulated.  I warn all the dudes to be very very careful of women who are psychopaths... .if you married one, not only she will set out to destroy you, if you should have kids, then you are worrying sick how they will be influenced and how mess-up they will become.  And you can not do anything about it.

Daniell85, good news for you is that most psychopath guys do not try to hide it.  so one can spot it pretty easily.  male psychopaths have been very well characterized by modern society because there is a great movement in shinning a stereotype bad light on men, and portraiting psychopathic men as the main stream men.  That men are generally abusive and lies and etc.  The very ugly qualities that psychopathic female use to generalize men and hide behind feminist ideals.  In reality, there are more decent and good men then the evil oppressive psychopathic meant hat psychopathic women want you to believe.  So as result of that smearing, society is very heavy handed and quickly to punish men and men are always declared guilty before proven innocent when comes to domestic violence.  In actuality, many women that I am aware of are very deceptive and manipulate the law to control and punish good men that they are with, out of their psychopathy.  These are not personality disorders.  And yes, there are psychopathic men and your BF maybe one of them.  You seem to love him, but my question is that how can anyone love someone who is only interested in manipulating and hurting you?  I used to be deeply in love with my wife, I still remember vividly how we met and the feeling that I had, I wanted to spend rest of my life with her as I recall... .love her and defend her no matter what.  In the past eight years, she showed me what evil is like.  She has no remorse, zero empathy, extremely oppressive and can careless if I were to be dead today.  It is so obvious that there is arguing about it.  You may say ... well, I think my BF may be a "little" different ... .maybe it is true today, but as time goes by, they will start to show and progress to be "themselves".  If you wait that long as I have with my situation, which is with 3 kids, it is really difficult to get out without any major collateral damages.  You need to read up on Robert D. Hares' books and there is also another book by someone else, called "Psychopath Free".  I strongly recommend you to read all those books and believe me, my realization of my situation took time ... .piece by piece, they slowly evolved.  Keep in mind, i you have seen the 20% of the trait... .the rest will follow and unfold as you move forward with your relationship.  He will not get better.  If you want, you can post the little things that he does and I will share you with what I learned.  It is really hard to accept being a "victim" of psychopathic relationship, but until you face it, you won't be able to get out of it.

[Lou12]

Hi again Pou,

I am so happy for you that you have found something that has helped you to piece your puzzle together! I hope it's given you some clarity on the pain you've suffered!

I down loaded the book and I'm 100 pages in already! Very interesting read so far but it has made be realise that my ex was definitely BPD. I realise this because he done the horrible things to me to get his needs met and not out pure entertainment.

[shatra]

Lou wrote

I've got to say after extensive research I can't actually find major differences amongst personality disordered individuals.

----THey are similar, but:

----APD  lack empathy and conscience, and aren't that needy

----Narcissists are often vain re: appearance

----BPDs have empathy, and are okay with feeding the partner's pride and needs at times (unlike narcissists or APDs)

[Lou12]

I think BPDs lack empathy and conscience Shantra and my BPD doesn't act needy at all, he feels to shamed to need anyone.

I just feel that the bahaviours are quite identical and the only difference is the motive behind it... ie the BPD behaves bad to get their needs met where as the ASPD does it for the pleasure of making people suffer! X

[shatra]

lou wrote--

I think BPDs lack empathy and conscience Shantra and my BPD doesn't act needy at all, he feels to shamed to need anyone.

-----I have known a couple of BPDs who only show empathy towards animals or strangers (non-threatening things)---does yours do that, or does he not show empathy at all?   I have heard of them being ashamed of needs and not showing them, but he may still feel more needy than a non underneath the defenses?

I just feel that the bahaviours are quite identical and the only difference is the motive behind it... ie the BPD behaves bad to get their needs met where as the ASPD does it for the pleasure of making people suffer!

---The behaviors are similar, but there are some differences between the 3 separate disorders.  The true APD simply lacks a conscience and as you wrote, likes making people suffer.  The narcissist is more concerned with appearance and "Being number one" than the other 2 in general.  I notice that the narc and the BPD do more splitting and push-pull than the APD.

----I have also read that every narcissist has some BPD traits, and every BPD has some narc traits.  They are very similar

[Pou]

Lou12 and Shatra, thank you for the discussions.  This is really a worthy topic.  I think too quick we conclude that people who are obviously out to hurt you have PDs. Because in my own experience, I wanted her to be a PD, because then that implies there is sometype of therapy for it.  After 9 years of persistent and consistent exposure, I came to the very unpleasant realization that what my wife is all about.  Sorry for not addressing every point specifically.  But in general, the reason that I say there is very small differences between BPD, NPD and Psychopathy (I don't want to use ASPD, because it implies there is a treatment) is because psychopathy is a master of using manufactured emotions that have been learned.  They are hard to detect.  I am an expert now and can tell the difference.  In a way, after getting bitten by a snake many times, you know what that bite should feel like.  The problem now is that when I hear and experience a manufactured emotion event that is on a psychopathy pattern ... .I start to feel ill.  Now, everyone is capable of manufacture emotions to support our expressions ... .but psychopath's way doing it is a prolong and in continuum with sudden drops out and falls back in... .in btw, you will see the "emptiness".  Therefore, some may behave like a BPD, and then they start to act more like a NPD ... .and then when you see the changes going toward one way ... .then you should alarmed that there is psychopathy involved and at some point, these whole thing is a play and you have outlived your usefulness for him or for her.  At discard phase, anything goes.  The abuse is out of the charts.  They definitely thrive pleasure from hurting you.  They don't express pleasure like we do.  Their pleasure is that they feel a huge empty hole has been filled ... .and that is only temporary ... .they waiting for the hole to open up again, but for now, it is filled.  They fill it by hurting their victims.  They want people to know and tell them that they are that evil, to them that is a confirmation and that they are doing the right things.  Otherwise, they will keep attacking you and intensify their tactics, in their heart, they laugh and think to themselves how stupid and worthless you are for not being able to figure them out.  Very very different than a normal human being.  Can not see them like a normal human being... . one has to read up and accept the facts.  Psychopaths are really really dangerous.  They will manipulate you and get what they wanted from you and such you dry.