who hurts more after the relationship? The "non" or person with BPD?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I'd consider this a 2 part question... .

FIRSTLY who hurts more after the relationship?  I know months and months later alot of us are still mentally stuck on them or hurt in our own way but if BPD is attachment based disorder with "extremes" of feelings... .who hurts more?  Maybe BPDs initially? But they seem to be able to move on quicker?  

-- from my perspective... .initially she seemed to care FAR TOO MUCH... little things hurt her really bad or "triggered" her I guess you can say... but she was also able to drop me without thinking twice... no pain. Just like an off switch from my perspective. Let me know what you think?

SECONDLY who would you rather be... .The non that gets cut off and has no choice but to go NC or very LC? Or The person she constantly comes back to... when it's convenient for him or her... or when they can't find someone " new" to replace you... or whatever the reason may be.

-- from my perspective ... .I am the one who's completely cut off and "forced" to move on/ forced to "heal" ... where as her ex bf seems to be more of the... come and go... she may have a replacement but still tell him she "loves him" and wants to be with him... you know she'll bounce back maybe they'll be good for a couple weeks?  A month? Sex , good times but then she heads for the hills... in search of something new...

Who would you rather be? The person who is forced to heal or the guy or girl that is constantly sucked in via triangulation or whatever it may be... love bombs once and a while?

She's let me off the roller coaster. . But keeps him on... when she comes back he feels "empowered" despite how we was trying to act like a stone cold tough guy to me "oh yeah I never want to see her again , I just like constant Sex blah blah"... this girl constantly pulls at his heart strings and hurts him... every time she leaves (via his social media) you can tell she really puts this guy through the ringer mentally. He's overly emotional basically speaking directly to her over twitter posts.

Who would you rather be?

[problemsolver]

I'd consider this a 2 part question... .

FIRSTLY who hurts more after the relationship?  I know months and months later alot of us are still mentally stuck on them or hurt in our own way but if BPD is attachment based disorder with "extremes" of feelings... .who hurts more?  Maybe BPDs initially? But they seem to be able to move on quicker?  

-- from my perspective... .initially she seemed to care FAR TOO MUCH... little things hurt her really bad or "triggered" her I guess you can say... but she was also able to drop me without thinking twice... no pain. Just like an off switch from my perspective. Let me know what you think?

SECONDLY who would you rather be... .The non that gets cut off and has no choice but to go NC or very LC? Or The person she constantly comes back to... when it's convenient for him or her... or when they can't find someone " new" to replace you... or whatever the reason may be.

-- from my perspective ... .I am the one who's completely cut off and "forced" to move on/ forced to "heal" ... where as her ex bf seems to be more of the... come and go... she may have a replacement but still tell him she "loves him" and wants to be with him... you know she'll bounce back maybe they'll be good for a couple weeks?  A month? Sex , good times but then she heads for the hills... in search of something new...

Who would you rather be? The person who is forced to heal or the guy or girl that is constantly sucked in via triangulation or whatever it may be... love bombs once and a while?

She's let me off the roller coaster. . But keeps him on... when she comes back he feels "empowered" despite how we was trying to act like a stone cold tough guy to me "oh yeah I never want to see her again , I just like constant Sex blah blah"... this girl constantly pulls at his heart strings and hurts him... every time she leaves (via his social media) you can tell she really puts this guy through the ringer mentally. He's overly emotional basically speaking directly to her over twitter posts.

Who would you rather be?

[toddinrochester]

I don't know if I can honestly say I would want to be recycled or not. Because there is something about a recycle being, well, recycled. At least you have that. But I wouldn't want the pain of this over and over again. I can't imagine how hard it is the first and second time that you are tossed without a second thought. This left me emotionally crippled for the past month. I think that I would really be a mess in the next rounds.


That being said, I won't be recycled. She isn't coming back and could give twos about how I am doing and how I feel right now. She has other battles going on and the biggest one is internal.

[myself]

Some would say the pwBPD feels things "ten times more" than someone w/out BPD. Not sure that's really true though, as the pwBPD gets to a certain point and then their defense impulses take over. For example, did they get "ten times as happy" as their partner before that happened? Probably not. They got to around the 'normal' amount, which is actually too much for them. Does this somehow show that the pwBPD feels more pain (because they react in such painful ways)? It seems pretty subjective. Happiness and pain and the like are unique for each of us.

She wasn't in any kind of therapy while with me, but was my ex diagnosed somewhere in her past? She wouldn't say, but many things add up and seem to show she was. The person in her life who's been around the longest, who does perhaps know but wouldn't tell me when I asked, is also the biggest enabler in my ex's life, and is hanging on to not lose her own attachment.

As to the question posed: I'd rather be me. Standing by the choices I've made. Including making sure to not be sucked back in (or doing the sucking, as it were). Facing the pain instead of burying it. Having a disorder would be more 'forced' than helping heal yourself. It's detaching from our own personal negatives, too. Which is really accomplishing something no matter who you are. Much harder when you're wired to not take those chances.

[Flameheart]

I think the nons initially hurt more, but we progressively heal over time and reclaim ourselves. For BPDs, bottling up the pain or ignoring it means that eventually, they'll feel that pain/hurt later on down the line no matter how much they try to repress it.

[Mutt]

I think the nons initially hurt more, but we progressively heal over time and reclaim ourselves. For BPDs, bottling up the pain or ignoring it means that eventually, they'll feel that pain/hurt later on down the line no matter how much they try to repress it.

I agree with Flameheart. Grieving and loss for a sufferer of BPD is different and isn't processed unless the person gets help in therapy.

A sufferer of BPD cannot feel what their defense mechanisms doesn't allow them to feel, inhibited grieving; feelings of loss and sadness is unhealthily redirected through anger, acting out and self sabotage.

[cyclistIII]

I think BPDs hurt more overall. They may hurt more than a non over a specific relationship, but they're still dealing with general shame and fear and other painful emotions, which they don't know how to control in any way. We can heal -- and what's more, we can form healthy attachments with someone else in the future, whereas, unless they really and truly commit to getting help, they will be stuck in the same pattern for the rest of their lives.

As for your second question, I think I would almost literally rather die than be stuck in the unending cycle of heartbreak you are describing. I feel lucky that my ex cut me off completely and forced me into NC. It's been hell but the thought of getting my hopes up and then going through it all over from the beginning, even once... .

It was bad enough with my xhwuBPD (12 years ago), who never technically broke up with me but would become emotionally cold and distant without warning, leaving me feeling like I was waiting for him to "come back" to me, even though he was living in the same house.

That experience is actually saving me from deluding myself into wanting my recent xwuBPD to come back and try again, because I can only assume that had he not bolted, that is the pattern I would have eventually run into with him, or something similar.

Well, okay, most days it's saving me. Today I'm a little weak and the delusions are trying to push their way in, but... .no. No! I don't want him; I want to be with an adult! We all deserve to be with people who know how to behave like adults! Right? Ugh!

[cyclistIII]

bottling up the pain or ignoring it means that eventually, they'll feel that pain/hurt later on down the line no matter how much they try to repress it.

I agree, and when the pain finally pushes its way to the surface, they might not even be able to mentally connect it with its original source -- they may just feel horrible without understanding why, which is even worse.

[Invictus01]

Personally, it really doesn't matter how much she hurts. It won't change how much she hurt me. Don't get me wrong, I hate seeing people hurting. But it isn't a competition for me. Maybe she hurt much more than I did... .Maybe not... .All I know is that I have absolutely no desire to experience the kind of hurt put me through again.

Which brings me to the next question. Again, personally, even if she for some reason did want to come back, there wouldn't be "over and over". Some people deserve second chances. But nobody deserves third, fourth, 100th chance. Two (at the most) and done.

[neverloveagain]

Interesting thread. I think both do but in different ways, you see there pain as devaluation at towards the end of the relationship this is more than likely when they are moving on in there minds. As you get dropped on your head there's so much chaos, in hindsight you know they are months ahead of your feelings if that makes sense.

[Suspicious1]

I'm sure pwBPD live with a lot of pain that's never going to go away. That said, after a relationship ends I think they have less pain, purely because object constancy issues mean they quickly forget and move on. I've no doubt the initial abandonment is excruciating (as it is for anyone), but I think there is quick detachment after that. My ex, at least, said he could just cut off feelings for someone if he had to. After he left his wife of 20 years, he expressed amazement that she "still wasn't over it" after two months.

So I imagine it's a lot like ripping off a plaster for a lot of pwBPD. Split someone black, detach and after the initial agony of abandonment they're off to pastures new. For nons, I imagine the pain is perhaps a little less acute, but more chronic.

[problemsolver]

I'm sure pwBPD live with a lot of pain that's never going to go away. That said, after a relationship ends I think they have less pain, purely because object constancy issues mean they quickly forget and move on. I've no doubt the initial abandonment is excruciating (as it is for anyone), but I think there is quick detachment after that. My ex, at least, said he could just cut off feelings for someone if he had to. After he left his wife of 20 years, he expressed amazement that she "still wasn't over it" after two months.

So I imagine it's a lot like ripping off a plaster for a lot of pwBPD. Split someone black, detach and after the initial agony of abandonment they're off to pastures new. For nons, I imagine the pain is perhaps a little less acute, but more chronic.

can someone explain object constancy? If they don't see you they forget about you? Quickly? Basically without social media or something to remind them of you, you're done?

[Suspicious1]

Object constancy is something children learn at a very young age. Before a certain age, if they can't see you, they think you don't exist and that can be very upsetting. Gradually they learn that you are still around even if you're not visible. Things don't have to be within their sound or sight in order to exist.

It has been said that people who have BPD stall at a certain developmental stage, and can have issues with object constancy, which is one of the reasons they panic about abandonment, but is also a reason why they appear to get over people and move on so quickly. After a week post-breakup, they can be in an emotional place that someone without BPD could take a month to get to. Out of sight really can be out of mind.

[Creativum]

I've learned to look at it this way:  It hurts the non-BPD person more ACUTELY because the emotional turmoil is a major shock to the system. That, I think, is why people coming out of these experiences, such as myself, can and do develop PTSD and withdrawal symptoms. But our systems are eventually cleansed of it all.

The BPD person, on the other hand, simply goes back to status quo -- their pain is, was, and always will be the same as it was before, during, and after the relationship, no matter how many short-lived relationship bandaids are applied.  Their pain will never go away.  YOUR PAIN WILL GO AWAY! Just let it. One day at a time, babe!

[jinnymvp]

Hmm well I will share my experience but I'd have to say it varies. This is my view.

So I initiated the break-up with my pwBPD and he agreed and understood/saw it coming. For me initially it is the most painful. I told him we had to maintain NC then last night it turned into starting the countdown over again. It has been almost 3 weeks since the break-up and he is doing worse now. He said the first week he worked and worked to try to keep his mind off of it and now he isn't doing well.

In general he reacts later to things. So I guess it depends on the person. We recycled 3 times and man... .too much exhaustion. It is tempting to jump back into the vortex but at what cost? Learn to love things that are good for you and avoid things that are toxic.

Best,

jinnym

[Beach_Babe]

Depends. BPDs hurt, but tend to grieve in reverse. NPDs do not and, actually enjoy the process of hurting others.

[dobie]

FWIW my T has hinted but won't diagnose that  I have cNPD/BPD traits so I'm on the border of having a cluster b .

I'm very sensitive and hurt easily , so all I can add is that it kicks like a mule for me 12 months out much less than at first and now I understand my behaviours/feelings of hurt are rooted in my foo and early childhood .


Rejection , devaluation  etc are always going to hurt PD or not .

Add in a false self and its painful as hell .

He/she who cares more hurts more its that simple

[toddinrochester]

Dobie. It hurts more for you down the road? Did you feel anything at first? My exwBPD absolutely lost it when she came here to get stuff. It was hard seeing her cry like that.

[SummerStorm]

In the long run, they hurt more because I feel like they basically hurt all the time.  But yes, it's definitely a shock to our system when they move on so quickly.  My former friend's ex-boyfriend told me that, after she discarded me, it was like she just didn't care.  The same thing happened when she broke up with him.  She

Lack of object constancy is the hardest thing for me to take, I think.  No one wants to be forgotten. 

[shatra]

Beach Babe wrote---

Depends. BPDs hurt, but tend to grieve in reverse.

Can you describe a bit about what grieve in reverse means?

[Beach_Babe]

after she discarded me, it was like she just didn't care.  The same thing happened when she broke up with him.  Lack of object constancy is the hardest thing for me to take, I think.  No one wants to be forgotten. 

Bpds hate you typically when they leave. Its NPDs that don't care.

And, whatever its worth, dobie, it doesn't appear to me you are a narcissist. I have yet to meet one that is self aware.

[problemsolver]

Depends. BPDs hurt, but tend to grieve in reverse. NPDs do not and, actually enjoy the process of hurting others.

what does grieve in reverse mean? Meaning they will feel the pain down the road? Rather then immediate?

[hurting300]

People with BPD do not forget you. This object consistency is something most people don't really understand. I can tell you I've studied personality disorders for almost two years And one thing is clear to me, they do not forget. They hold on to memories of you and everyone else... now I can say cluster b's have problems planning ahead past two weeks. No one is cut from the same cloth guys. The very best way to figure them out is to research their past.

[problemsolver]

People with BPD do not forget you. This object consistency is something most people don't really understand. I can tell you I've studied personality disorders for almost two years And one thing is clear to me, they do not forget. They hold on to memories of you and everyone else... now I can say cluster b's have problems planning ahead past two weeks. No one is cut from the same cloth guys. The very best way to figure them out is to research their past.

can you explain object constancy from your perspective? Or in your own words?

[hurting300]

People with BPD do not forget you. This object consistency is something most people don't really understand. I can tell you I've studied personality disorders for almost two years And one thing is clear to me, they do not forget. They hold on to memories of you and everyone else... now I can say cluster b's have problems planning ahead past two weeks. No one is cut from the same cloth guys. The very best way to figure them out is to research their past.

Basically what I'm saying is when someone says they forget you, it's not entirely true. They do have a hard recalling some memories. But just because they abandon you and go silent does not mean they forgot you. My ex testified in court about things that happened three years ago. Repression of memories is not the same as object consistency. Now I'll explain: object consistency is when you go to work and they text and text and text. It's kinda like a child that has separation anxiety.

can you explain object constancy from your perspective? Or in your own words?

[dobie]

after she discarded me, it was like she just didn't care.  The same thing happened when she broke up with him.  Lack of object constancy is the hardest thing for me to take, I think.  No one wants to be forgotten.  

Bpds hate you typically when they leave. Its NPDs that don't care.

And, whatever its worth, dobie, it doesn't appear to me you are a narcissist. I have yet to meet one that is self aware.

Hey beech  

Apparently there are a few forms no I'm not a grandiose empathy lacking NARC its more to do with attachment , self esteem , black & white thinking , entilment, vulnerability etc its a complex disorder .

Most narcs are aware and would even admit they are narcissistic but don't actually care its a spectrum disorder don't forget .

[AwakenedOne]

My opinion is that most of the time the NON hurts more after the relationship. Days, months or even years until some kind of realization sets in. This personal realization when it comes is the spark in the darkness that will become the olympic torch type flame that will light the way on the road to Happinessville or a place called Peaceville. The fortunate will have houses in both Ville's.  

I think a lot of BPD x's actually experience the hurt before you are even discarded. My x did weird stuff that looked much like grieving months before we were over. I believe and it seems that the facts support that they are not even grieving us as though we are an actual person. They are grieving the loss of a dream. I think they are often very angry that we wasted their time and let them down.

If you are the one that is discarded, I think the BPD x is over you, you are black to them. If you have discarded them though, that is a different story... .that will hurt them to the core even if they don't show you pain.

Seems that the time the x BPD partner will really hurt is much later in life after multiple failed relationships, babies with x partners, STD's, debt, no friends etc... .All of this due to their behavior and choices with people. At that point, maybe that will trigger an understanding and serve as the spark to light their way. If it doesn't,  their future will be loneliness and misery.    

[SummerStorm]

after she discarded me, it was like she just didn't care.  The same thing happened when she broke up with him.  Lack of object constancy is the hardest thing for me to take, I think.  No one wants to be forgotten. 

Bpds hate you typically when they leave. Its NPDs that don't care.

And, whatever its worth, dobie, it doesn't appear to me you are a narcissist. I have yet to meet one that is self aware.

She was more annoyed with me than anything.  I think it was more that she didn't show any empathy, which is typical for a pwBPD.

[SummerStorm]

People with BPD do not forget you. This object consistency is something most people don't really understand. I can tell you I've studied personality disorders for almost two years And one thing is clear to me, they do not forget. They hold on to memories of you and everyone else... now I can say cluster b's have problems planning ahead past two weeks. No one is cut from the same cloth guys. The very best way to figure them out is to research their past.

Yeah, they never forget you.  It's just more, "out of sight, out of mind."  She discarded me after we hadn't seen each other for over a week.  When she went away in April, she texted me all day, sent me pictures, had me send her pictures.  But the first day she was away, actually before she had even gotten on the plane, mere hours after we hugged each other before she left work, she texted me and said, "I miss you." 

She told me stories about all kinds of people from her past, many of them positive.  She no longer talks to those people, but she never forgot them.  So, it's not that we are actually forgotten, but it feels like we are. 

[SummerStorm]

 

I think a lot of BPD x's actually experience the hurt before you are even discarded. My x did weird stuff that looked much like grieving months before we were over. I believe and it seems that the facts support that they are not even grieving us as though we are an actual person. They are grieving the loss of a dream. I think they are often very angry that we wasted their time and let them down.

I just talked to my former friend BPD's ex, and he said that toward the end, not long before she left him, she started really letting herself go.  He described it as "nasty and messy."  It was like she knew that moving across the country with him just wasn't going to happen, and so she just gave up. 

[push pull]

I feel sorry for you people. I'm 4 years out, and it took me around 2 years to fully heal and move on from that horrific experience. I'm so glad that all the pain is long gone and I'm in a happier place now. 4 months after the split, I felt so morbidly depressed due to the pain she put me through, as well as replacing me in a flash, that I honestly felt like ending my own life. I felt that messed up inside, but, somehow, I decided to just soldier on and let time be a healer. I honestly didn't think that things would get any better, but gradually they did.

Stay no contact no matter what, and you will gradually heal from all of this.


Best to you all.