She is in a very bad place. Should I answer when she calls?

[focus]

I've been in NC for 4 months. She keeps calling and I don't pick up the phone. Then she tries phone numbers that I don't recognize, or I suspect it's her because people I don't know don't tend to call at 6AM or after midnight.

She was a recovering addict, now she's using. The replacement is also an addict.

The phone calls from her were once a week, sometimes twice.

Sometimes followed by a text, sometimes the text had a "legit" reason for contacting but there was always something nice and not relevant in the texts.

Then the call attempts became more frequent, then the numbers I didn't recognize and the pattern changed.

I decided to turn off my phone 8 days ago and it's still off.

She hasn't been in touch with her kids, hasn't met them or called.

I meet them almost twice a week and do stuff with them.

I knew she had some comfort just dialing my number and let it ring, even if I wouldn't pick up the phone, she knew I was out there.

I took it away from her.

I did it because I've been trying to set boundaries and she doesn't respect them. I noticed I felt validated when she tried to call and I wanted it to stop.

But shamefully I admit I was punishing her. That was the driving force behind it.

I have been on the anger stage for a few weeks (I thought I was never going to get at this stage).

I decided some time ago I was not going to talk to her until she would go to rehab and get rid of her addict replacement.

I was talking to the kids fathet (I meet the kids through him) the other day and he told me he doubts she will ever get clean again.

After I turned my phone off, I expected something to happen in 3 or 4 weeks. It only took 4 days for her to send her oldest son (14 yrs) an e-mail. She told him she loved him and misses him and she's at a very dark place, locked in her room with her phone turned off, filled with anxiety and in prison in her own mind.

He replied don't talk to me.

I feel bad.

Should I turn my phone on and answer if she calls?

I don't know what to do. I don't know what she wants.

I think she perhaps wants me to save her again?

Sorry about the chaos in this post. I have been writing it in my phone. I'm also confused.

[AsGoodAsItGets]

Yes, she wants something from you.  I have been thier.  Even got everything I thought I wanted.  She got of drugs, left, ex, went to rehab, moved in ... .   In the end it didn't matter.  I honestly save her life.  To this day I still cry for her from time to time, even though she got, and I lost everything.

[enlighten me]

Hi Focus

I can understand your hurt and wanting to save her. The FOG that situations like this bring up. I have a similar struggle with my ex wife. Not drugs and nowhere near as severe as your situation but still she wants to be rescued. Or at least part of her does.

With my ex wife I decided to let her fail. Part of it was revenge related and I wanted to see her fail or suffer. Now when it happens I let her fail for a different reason. That reason is that she needs to be responsible for her actions and by saving her Im not really helping her. She will go through life finding saviours and enablers and never see how her actions affect others. I no longer wish to add to her delusions.

That said it doesn't stop me worrying.

[hollycat]

Practice tough love. As difficult as it feels, as wrong as it feels, she needs to feel the consequences.  It's what I am doing to my BpdH. He texts me he has no tools to fix the broken water pipes at his place. He has no internet. Can't wash clothes. No potable water.  I know he wants me to ask him to come back home to Florida. I will not.

He has to take the consequences for calling the police on me and threatening my job.  When I threw a few spoonfuls of water on his shoulder, he could have taken a different action. Rather, he went over the top and called the police and wanted me arrested for assault.  So, he wanted to be gone, he is gone. This is his consequence.

It breaks my heart to deny him. Just as it breaks yours to deny her. Still. We were denied plenty as well.

[focus]

Thank you all for your responses.

I am in the FOG, that's for sure!

Fear for her life.

Obligation to her children (bring mom back, again), for her, to ask her to get diagnozed and seek treatment (DBT), to support her like a husband should.

Guilt for ignoring her and for forcing no contact. I did it for me at first and I needed to do it. I don't know if I'm showing tough love or just punishing her or if I'm still protecting myself.

I'm affraid she thinks she can't do it without me.

When I met her, she was a total wreck, not allowed to speak to her children, heavy drug use, a lot of her family wouldn't talk to her.

When she went to rehab, she usually only lasted a couple of months.

When we were togeather she got everything back. Joint custidy, everything was good.

Kids dad told me last Saturday it was because of me the kids got their mom back for all those yesrs.

[hollycat]

You have the right and the obligation to protect yourself. Of course she wants something from you. Just as my BpdH wants something from me. Appears we all have a great ability to put ourselves second and the pwBPD first. Why? Think about it. If you do reach out and help her, what will happen?

[focus]

You have the right and the obligation to protect yourself. Of course she wants something from you. Just as my BpdH wants something from me. Appears we all have a great ability to put ourselves second and the pwBPD first. Why? Think about it. If you do reach out and help her, what will happen?

I am co-dependent, and I am aware of it now.

I don't know what will happen if I help. I'm not going to reach out, only thinking about picking up if she calls.

If this was about rent money or something I wouldn't bother.

I do literaly fear for her life.

[hollycat]

Do you know where she is, physically? the address? if she does call again and you do pick up because you are in fear for her life, the best, most helpful boundary you can set will be to tell you you are calling 911 for her.  If she is in that bad a shape, she needs to be in a hospital.  That way, you are protecting her life and helping her, without getting pulled back in to the chaos.

[focus]

Do you know where she is, physically? the address? if she does call again and you do pick up because you are in fear for her life, the best, most helpful boundary you can set will be to tell you you are calling 911 for her.  If she is in that bad a shape, she needs to be in a hospital.  That way, you are protecting her life and helping her, without getting pulled back in to the chaos.

That's one idea. I don't think she's at that place yet, but it's an idea if she calls and is in that bad shape.

[Mutt]

I agree with hollycat, you need to take care of yourself. How many of us on the boards neglected our own needs and were self sacrificing? It's not feasible.

If you feel like it's life threatening contact your emergency services they are trained professionals.

What does it mean to take care of yourself?

[OnceConfused]

it sounds to me like SHE IS NOT ONLY IN A BAD PLACE, BUT ALSO SHE HAS BEEN THERE FOR A LONG TIME, before she met you, while she was with you, and now she is without you.

She is where she is because ?

Because of you, of her kids and of whom ?

The answer is clear, she is where she is because of the choices she has made, not because what you have done or her kids have done.

If you respond to her now, you won't help her at all. Practice tough love , my friend.

[focus]

Thank you all for your responses.

I'm going to take your advices, keep my phone off for now, and continue to force NC. That's tough love, and the guilt will eat me alive, but you guys are propably right.

She knows what she has to do, she can look up a phone number at a rehab clinic.

[Mutt]

That's tough love, and the guilt will eat me alive, but you guys are propably right.

Hi focus,

I think that we can have compassion with boundaries.

She was a victim of a predator, her mother's ex boyfriend. She thought she was in love, he was a drug dealer and got her hooked when she was 14.

That's heartbreaking.

She's your STBX, you have a history with her, she means something to you.

She has a S14 and you probably have a bond with him too. That's tough.

How long were you married?

[hopealways]

Some say practice tough love, others say be patient, some say don't enable, still others say enforce boundaires.  The reality is none of our actions will ever change them.  Only they can if at all, and through intensive committed therapy which I have yet to hear anyone attempt.

[focus]

Hi EM, thanks for your understanding.

I meet the kids almost two times each week. We all have strong bond. In their mind, I was the man who brought their mom back into their lives. When we split, their mom is gone again.

Our bond has even grown stronger. The kids father told me last Saturday that it means the world to them that I'm still there for them.

Couple of weeks ago, something happened that upset the S14 to the point he broke down and cried. He doesn't cry over small things.

He called me, not his father or stepmom, he turned to me for comfort and support.

At that point I realized I was doing a good job regarding the kids. Many guys in my situation would have left and not bothered about them.

I am proud of myself regarding the kids.

Me and my STBXW were married for two years, lived togeather for 6.

She was happy and stable. I did not exsperience the brutal abuse I often read about on these forums, the constant splitting and push-pull.

There were perhaps two periods of abuse, when she gaslight me and stuff, but those two periods were short lived.

Few episodes as well, but again, nothing compared to some of the crazyness I read about.

Over all she was stable and happy.

Then a huge trigger. Everything went downhill very fast.

For 4 or 5 months I was abused, devalued, triangelated and disgarded. I was split black for about two weeks in May and one week in June. Then I was white again (I think I have never been split black before).

hopealways.

I know people say different things, but it's always good to get feedback and pointers from people who have gone through this.

People who haven't been in a RS with a BPD person just don't understand and it gets frustraiting. Here you guys understand and support.

The divorce should go through within the next couple of weeks. I'm going to keep my phone off until then and perhaps keep it turned off until two weeks after the divorce comes through. Then I will re visit this idea.

[enlighten me]

Hi focus

Its good that you are still part of the kids life and that their dad values your input. They are the ones that will suffer the most through this and between you and their dad Im sure they will be ok.

Ive no doubt that there will be more to come from your ex. You seem to have a firm grasp on what your dealing with and more importantly the impact it has on you. Whatever happens just remember we are here for you.

EM

[focus]

It feels good posting here. Writing has theraputic effects on me. Writing on here and reading feedback from people that understand is priceless.

I'm in therapy and I've been making good progress. I have a very supportive family and network of friends.

I'm attending CoDA meetings, reading on this forum and other about BPD, NPD, co-dependentcy, Complex-PTSD and trying to understand the situation I'm in, understand her, discovering me and working on me, being there for the kids, I'm trying hard.

Thank you all for the feedback. It makes me feel understood. I get the understanding here.

[focus]

I was told just now it appears they have broken up, or are having some problems at least.

Guess that explains the changed pattern in the phone call attempts and messages.

My phone is still turned off. I'm going to keep it that way until I process the new info and decide what to do.

Good I'm going to see my therapist tomorrow.

[Mutt]

I was told just now it appears they have broken up, or are having some problems at least.

Guess that explains the changed pattern in the phone call attempts and messages.

My phone is still turned off. I'm going to keep it that way until I process the new info and decide what to do.

Good I'm going to see my therapist tomorrow.

I found going to a therapy session gave me wind in my sails until the next session. Its good to hear that you're looking forward to your session and that you finding writing therapeutic.

My phone is still turned off. I'm going to keep it that way until I process the new info and decide what to do.

Are you worried she'll call and it's going to be emotionally upsetting or your undecided with the relationship?

[focus]

I'm not sure. I'm not sure about anything anymore.

I have reached the point as if she's not real, the relationship never happened, that it was all imaginary. Like when you are having a conversation with someone in your head.

It's really weird.

I worry that if I talk to her it will all come back, the incredible pain, the non stop crying and internal turmoil.

But still I feel emotional about all of this, otherwise I wouldn't have been so angry for the past month.

Right now I'm angry as well.

I'm angry that the homewrecker got to walk away. I wanted her to hurt him and kick him out. I wanted him to feel the pain and rejection.

I'm angry that she's upset that he left. I'm angry she feels these emotions regarding him but didn't give 2 cents when she destroyed our marrige.

On the other hand, I don't know the status on her situation right now. Maybe they're back togeather, maybe she has someone new, maybe she's all alone... .

I don't want to want back in, but a little part of me still does I guess. But I keep playing the last months of our marrige in my head to keep myself angry at her.

I don't want to share my life with someone whos core values are so different from mine. I don't want to spend the rest of my life with someone with double standards.

[Mutt]

I hear you. I was married with kids and another man entered the picture. I completely understand the incredible pain and anger when we're triangulated and have no power over the situation. Its tough.

[focus]

Apparently they're back togeather.

These news I have been recieving for the past week have had much effect on me and the week has been tough.

And the last two days have been real tough. Hearing these things really threw me back. Last night I even felt a little depressed on top of it all.

I'm not happy about getting these news because I have asked not to be informed about anything.

The news about them splitting and getting back togeather both effected me greatly. And I went through a lot of hard emotions for nothing because the situation is the same now.

Ugh I'm just a bit angry... .

[Mutt]

Hearing these things really threw me back.

I understand. I was knee deep in pain and hearing news about my ex felt like a set-back.

How are you getting this news?

[focus]

My sister told me, knowing I don't want to hear anything.

She and her boyfriend know people who know him... .and someone told her about them breaking up or having some problems. That was the day before yesterday.

Then yesterday I was talking about how the news the day before had thrown me back and I worried about her.

She then told me that she talked to her friend and he thinks they are back togeather.

This friend doesn't know the OM very well, so it confuses me how, on the same day he would have these info, first they're broken up then, later the same day they're back togeather.

There's no wonder why some people say don't talk to these things to people whos never been through this stuff.

Today I just realized that I was abused. I have been trying to tell myself just that for the past week, to call abuse abuse, and just a few moments ago it hit me.

I was emotionally abused during the devaliation stage.

My emotions were invalidated and negelected. She exploited my good nature and affection and trust. Triangulation IS abuse, and that felt horrible. She lied, cheated, projected, gaslighted and split me black. All is abuse.

The woman I so deeply loved, cared for and lived for; my own wife, abused me.

I want so bad not to care about her, even hate her.

I even wish I could feel tiny bit of joy that she is using drugs and drinking and not speaking to her own children.

But no, I worry about my own abuser! What the eff is wrong with me?

[Mutt]

Hi focus,

Your sister is likely not aware how hard it can be to hear news. She probably doesn't know better, I had to set a boundary with friends and family that I didn't want to hear news about my ex because everything was so raw. I found that they respected my wishes.

Have you spoken with your sister and set a limit?

I understand how upsetting this all is with the realization that you faced emotional abuse. I can relate with you, my ex projected her emotional abuse and I realized its not me.

It's not your fault.

Click the link to follow the image, where do you see yourself in this chart?

From Victim to Survivor to Thriver

[focus]

Yes, I have talked to her about this, I have talked to all of my friends and family that I'm in regular contact with to not tell me anything regarding my STBX. She still told me. I am going to have to talk to her again.

I see myself in the survivor collum working my way towards the thriver. That is a good thing that I'm working towards the thriver collum...

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

[Mutt]

Hi focus,

You know your sister better than anyone else on the boards. How the boards work is that you take what members post and pick the bones out of them, take the wisdom and advice that you feel comfortable with.

I also self protected with some family members that invalidated and was in low contact with them until I started to feel better.

Self protection will give you adequate space to heal your wounds, it will help with stopping the bleeding with your ex and it helps with detachment.

I think that it's difficult for people to empathize with us when they haven't experienced a relationship when someone suffers from a serious mental illness. The experience can be very confusing when we're grieving the loss and often when the relationship breaks it's incredibly painful.

It helps to talk to members that have gone through a similar experience and I would suggest a T ( therapist ) to work through this in conjunction with sharing with a group. I found it really helped a lot.

I'm glad that the link helped, you can use it as a benchmark, this stuff really takes time to work through, it does get better. Keep posting.


Hang in there.


----Mutt

[Hopeful83]

Hi focus,

You know your sister better than anyone else on the boards. How the boards work is that you take what members post and pick the bones out of them, take the wisdom and advice that you feel comfortable with.

I also self protected with some family members that invalidated and was in low contact with them until I started to feel better.

Self protection will give you adequate space to heal your wounds, it will help with stopping the bleeding with your ex and it helps with detachment.

I think that it's difficult for people to empathize with us when they haven't experienced a relationship when someone suffers from a serious mental illness. The experience can be very confusing when we're grieving the loss and often when the relationship breaks it's incredibly painful.

It helps to talk to members that have gone through a similar experience and I would suggest a T ( therapist ) to work through this in conjunction with sharing with a group. I found it really helped a lot.

I'm glad that the link helped, you can use it as a benchmark, this stuff really takes time to work through, it does get better. Keep posting.


Hang in there.


----Mutt

I couldn't agree more with 'self protection.' It took me three months to really protect myself the way I should have, and it definitely set me back whenever I heard about him. I had 'friends' forwarding me photos of him and his new woman from Instagram, friends telling me he'd deleted them off Facebook, friends telling me he'd emailed them. It used to set me back each and every time.

In the end, I changed my number on WhatsApp and only gave it to close, trusted friends. I even told them to not tell me anything about him even if they hear something, and not to talk to me about him unless I open the discussion. If I could, I'd also deactivate my Facebook account because things do filter through from time to time (the annoying 'on this day' app doesn't help) such as old comments from him on photos (despite the fact he's blocked, those still show up, so I get to see him and his new woman on the thumbnail). If I didn't use social media heavily for my business, I'd avoid it all together.

I deleted all his friends and family from my Facebook. Only a few people weren't culled, but they're people that either a) don't know him too well or b) are more my friends now than his.

It took me ages to realise I need to build certain walls in order to heal. I'm glad I realised it sooner rather than later. I can tell you it DEFINITELY helps.

Hopeful

[focus]

Hi Mutt and Hopeful.

Thank you so much for posting.

I will use this link as a bencmark.

I am seeing a therapist, went last Friday. Even with the setback, she tells me I'm making much progress, that I'm starting focusing on me and what she put ME through. The anger helps in that regard I think.

I have done a good job protecting myself. Only one trusted friend is allowed to give me crusial info, he was my middle man through the divorce, he knows what I need to know and what to filter out.

He told my ex everything she needed regarding me would have to go through him. He even picked up my stuff. He does it all with respect towards my ex. But she still doesn't respect it.

I have gone through the whole divorce forcing strict no contact. I cut my losses and ran.

I deleted my facebook account, opened up a new one with fake name, there I only have very close people. I have even already blocked her, all mutal friends and her family members.

Thank you so much for the feedback. It really helps.

I'm going to keep posting.

[focus]

Just got a text from her.

The divorce is finalized.

She tried to call 10 minutes later, I guess to check if my phone was turned on.

I feel very bad, sad and angry at my self.

I am guessing I will not recive any more texts or call attempts from her ever again.

Even though I'm forcing NC it still makes me feel terrible.

The drama is over.

It is over.

All is over.