Say one thing, do another; A common BPD trait?

[Depression = 72% of members]

Been away from the board for a month or so, stupid busy at work. But I have been meaning to pose these questions, because I deal with it all the time:

1. Do other BPD's say one thing and do another?

2. Do they keep you guessing, "What next?"

3. D0 they say they are going to do something off the wall, go all they way through the steps then stop short of actually doing it?

4. Do they go for interviews or take jobs they do not want then quit just because they love the high they get from being wanted?

Been dealing with this a lot lately. Curious if others have seen it and how you dealt with it.

[Cole]

Been away from the board for a month or so, stupid busy at work. But I have been meaning to pose these questions, because I deal with it all the time:

1. Do other BPD's say one thing and do another?

2. Do they keep you guessing, "What next?"

3. D0 they say they are going to do something off the wall, go all they way through the steps then stop short of actually doing it?

4. Do they go for interviews or take jobs they do not want then quit just because they love the high they get from being wanted?

Been dealing with this a lot lately. Curious if others have seen it and how you dealt with it.

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[waverider]

pwBPD often score highly on impulse, need and instant gratification as motivators, but very low on responsibilty and obligation. Delusion driving the former, and avoidance and denial excusing the later


~1-3, yes because they are operating on impulse of the moment. Impulse by nature has no consistency (IMPULSE). they believe it at the time

~4, yes because they need to self validate that they are worthy (NEEDINESS)

Blaming others is the tool used to avoid obligation and responsibility for not following through

[Cole]

pwBPD often score highly on impulse, need and instant gratification as motivators

4, yes because they need to self validate that they are worthy (NEEDINESS)

I am seeing that someone saying they need/want a pwBPD is a very powerful drug to them. It causes them to act irrationally to get the high. No different than the drug users and alcoholics I tried to help when I was a police officer.

W took a job in her home town (2 hours away) last month, moving out on a Saturday. By Sunday, it dawned on her that she was leaving her husband and kids for a job and came back home.

Last week, she took a job here at home that she does not want because it requires working rotating shifts, weekends and holidays, insisting we need the money (we don't). She was all excited to take the job, but after day 3 yesterday she is looking for reasons to quit. 

But wait, there's more! Today, she is in her home town at another job interview. I asked her why, when last month she did so and changed her mind because it meant leaving her husband and kids. Her answer was that she is unhappy here, wants to get a divorce and move back there.

And yet more... .A little while ago she called all excited. They just called and offered her a management position she applied for here at home. M-F, days, no weekends, no holidays like the one she just started. Now, she is on her way back to take that position. Says she will quit the other job here in town because it will cause her to be away from her husband and kids on evenings and weekends. She is excited that she will be home with us all the time.

I know. The question going through your mind is, "But why does she want a job that allows her more time with her family when she just said she want a divorce and to move away?"  I have not decided if I will ask that question. But if I do, I will wrap my head with duct tape so it does not explode when she answers.

     

[Chilibean13]

1. Do other BPD's say one thing and do another?

2. Do they keep you guessing, "What next?"

3. D0 they say they are going to do something off the wall, go all they way through the steps then stop short of actually doing it?

4. Do they go for interviews or take jobs they do not want then quit just because they love the high they get from being wanted?

I see this quite consistently when things are going good for my uBPD husband. When he feels good about himself, he comes up with all kinds of ideas about how to fix up the house, ministries to start, things we can do together, things he wants to try, etc. etc. He wanted to learn how to play guitar, the djembe, build chess sets, raise bees and chickens, read books, etc. So we invested money in these things because I wanted to support him in doing something that made him feel better about himself. And after investing in these things, after a month, they sit unsused.

For the most part, or at least for the really big things, I've learned that he probably will not follow through on any of these things, but that he just wants to know I believe in him to be able to do it because he doesn't believe in himself enough to do it.

I'm beginning to see that in those moments, he feels good about himself, but he really doesn't know who he is inside. I think he is searching for outside things that will keep him feeling good about himself. Could your wife be feeling empty and wants to find herself through a new job?

[Cole]

I think he is searching for outside things that will keep him feeling good about himself.

That is, as far as I am concerned, the 1 line definition of a pwBPD. They have a remarkable lack of self esteem, serious core shame issues, or both. So, they look externally to other people, events, or conditions to fill that big emptiness. Maybe it is a job. Or bee keeping. Anything that gives them their fix. But like drugs, alcohol, or gambling, the high is only temporary and tomorrow they will need more. 

Yes, she is looking for that "needed/wanted high" from a job offer. Interestingly, she quit her job earlier this year because our autistic son needed her more at home. Now that he is doing better, she feels empty and unneeded, so she is seeking the next source of the needed/wanted drug. The problem is that the high wears off as soon as she has the job, so she goes in search of another one so someone else will say they need/want her.

The second part of it is that the more they get, the more they need. So, when we as the SO's are unable to provide a constantly escalating amount of the need/want drug (because it is akin to filling the Grand Canyon with a teaspoon) they feel abandoned and push us away. This causes the big emptiness to get even bigger, so they push us away even more.   

   

[Hmcbart]

So, when we as the SO's are unable to provide a constantly escalating amount of the need/want drug (because it is akin to filling the Grand Canyon with a teaspoon) they feel abandoned and push us away. This causes the big emptiness to get even bigger, so they push us away even more.   

   

There is no end to this.  Several years ago,before I learned anything about PD's, my wife was complaining that she was stuck in the house with the kids all day and that I at least got to be around adults.  I offered to put them in day care so she could get a job and spend time with adults.  What I thought was a perfectly reasonable idea considering how many times she had brought it up.

That turned into a complete meltdown. She started yelling at me and told me that she was not going to get a job because when I divorce her she wanted all of the alimony she could get. 

After I picked my jaw up off the floor, I went for a drive.  Now I understand more about her behaviors and triggers.  I still get in trouble a lot because I will see the set up coming and the inevitable projection and meltdown.  I will be smiling when it happens which just makes it worse.

I have learned when she decides she wants to do X and buy Y because of whatever, I look at the money and decide if I can afford to pay for it.  I then look at my emotional state and decide if I can afford to "pay for it" if I don't go along with what she wants.

It's Like knowing there is going to be a train wreck but that you can't do anything to stop it, and worse yet, your are onboard the train. 

[waverider]

pwBPD understand need and the power of the emotion behind it. So they want others to display "need" for them as they know, or believe they do, the emotion behind it. That is what they draw on for validation... ."He needs me" is a powerful thought to them. Often pwBPD will rush in to offer to be a rescuer when it suits them. They will amplify the drama of your issue so that they can be an even more needed rescuer. End result is rather than soothing you it feeds the issue, then suddenly they withdraw, as it wasn't about fulfilling your need but rather feeding their need to be needed.

[Cole]

It's Like knowing there is going to be a train wreck but that you can't do anything to stop it, and worse yet, your are onboard the train.  

Yes. They are like recurring train crashes and we are perpetual passengers. Too bad Rod Serling is gone. Life with a pwBPD would make a great Twilight Zone episode.

pwBPD understand need and the power of the emotion behind it. So they want others to display "need" for them as they know, or believe they do, the emotion behind it. That is what they draw on for validation... ."He needs me" is a powerful thought to them. Often pwBPD will rush in to offer to be a rescuer when it suits them. They will amplify the drama of your issue so that they can be an even more needed rescuer. End result is rather than soothing you it feeds the issue, then suddenly they withdraw, as it wasn't about fulfilling your need but rather feeding their need to be needed.

Well stated. I have a thriving career, maintain a big property, and still find time to do things with the kids. Most women would find that attractive. But, rather than seeing me as capable, my wife sees it as me not needing her. I honestly think she would be happier if I lost my job and started drinking so she could take care of me, fulfilling her need to be needed.

I think it is interesting to hear that I am not the only one who deals with this. Has anyone come across resources that help explain how to deal with the need/want addiction of a pwBPD? Is there a way we can help satisfy it for them? Or a way to help them find what they need from within?    

[waverider]

I think it is interesting to hear that I am not the only one who deals with this. Has anyone come across resources that help explain how to deal with the need/want addiction of a pwBPD? Is there a way we can help satisfy it for them? Or a way to help them find what they need from within?    

This is a hard one. neediness is a process with no end goal, it is not about having the object of desire, so you can't sate it. The need is transferable. Trying to satisfy the need simply validates it as a reasonable request. Until they can overcome inner insecurity they wont be able to be satisfied with what they have and will continue to seek outside input.

This is one of the biggest areas I have to deal with. The only way I have found to deal with it is to identify what needs I am happy to meet (even if it is enabling) and which are a firm "no'. I need my consistency, I do not have the power to prevent her neediness which is a large part of her personality, so I am not going to waste my time constantly fighting or negotiating over it.

[Cole]

Trying to satisfy the need simply validates it as a reasonable request. Until they can overcome inner insecurity they wont be able to be satisfied with what they have and will continue to seek outside input.

You are stating what I have been thinking. Fulfilling the pwBPD's every need is like giving an alcoholic a beer or taking a gambler to the track. They will want more. The key is for them to become strong enough inside to no longer need the fix. 

[Rockylove]

The key is for them to become strong enough inside to no longer need the fix. 

I suppose this can actually happen, but unfortunately in my uBPDh, the severity of his stroke has him in a position of constant neediness and insecurity.  It's been a year since the stroke and his level of recovery is not that great and he's well aware of that which makes him even angrier.  We are in a constant push~pull battle.  He giveth, he taketh away... .over and over.  He says he should be taking better care of me one day and the next he'll be throwing me out of the house.   

[Cole]

He says he should be taking better care of me one day and the next he'll be throwing me out of the house.   

I understand your frustration.

Today, W cleaned the house, reorganized closets, and volunteered for more work at the kids' school. She also put in numerous job applications out of state so she can move out. 

She reiterated that she wants to move out of state, then talked about how we can work out the schedule with her on second shift and said she hopes to hear from the other local place that offered her a job Thursday.

She yelled at me because I hugged her last night. 15 minutes later we were talking and she could not keep her hands off me.     

Yep. Duct tape your head so it does not explode.

[teapay]

Cole, I experience from my wife versions of alot of the same things you describe.  The neediness and instability is what really convinced my she is deeply mentally ill and borders on psychotic.  Most stuff I let ride, neither validating or invalidating her and let her do what she wants, even though it is annoying and inconvenient. There some are things I won't tolerate,  especially if it would damage the rest of the family. Those I'm willing the fight for.

I've often thought of my wifes neediness as a black hole.  It tries to suck everything in and it all disappears and goes nowhere.

Since we married, her personality, who she is, has been fairly unstable.  It's like there is nothing really solid there, like a ghost. Trying to grab it is like trying to grab smoke.

It goes far beyond me to fix and I doubt it is fixable.

[Cole]

I've often thought of my wifes neediness as a black hole.  It tries to suck everything in and it all disappears and goes nowhere.

Since we married, her personality, who she is, has been fairly unstable.  It's like there is nothing really solid there, like a ghost. Trying to grab it is like trying to grab smoke.

It goes far beyond me to fix and I doubt it is fixable.

Yes, the neediness seems endless. there is never enough to fill the hole.

Instability is an everyday thing here. After announcing she wants to move out, last night she asked if we could go to an antique mall next week to look for things for the house. She told me she is not actively looking for a job out of state, but spent most of yesterday on the computer doing just that and left the browser history for me to find (we both check it often to monitor what our kids are doing on line.) And even though she says she wants a divorce, she kissed me several times last night and made some very complimentary comments about my appearance and what she likes to see me wear. I am guessing this is part psychotic behavior and part attempted manipulation.

I do think it is fixable. She came clean with her T about all her issues a couple weeks ago. T says she can help my wife, but it will take time and work. Fortunately, W is ready and wants to do it.  

 

[waverider]

Fortunately, W is ready and wants to do it.  

 

My wife has been ready and willing for last three years, to the point of selgf harming to try and fore herself into the system.

Every attempt in the mean time has resulted in a "not my fault" backflip once anyone wants to move past her back history about why everybody else is to blame for causing her disorder.

So despite her eagerness, I don't think she is ready. She needs therapy to enable her to commit to therapy, catch 22

[Cole]

Fortunately, W is ready and wants to do it.  

 

My wife has been ready and willing for last three years, to the point of selgf harming to try and fore herself into the system.

Every attempt in the mean time has resulted in a "not my fault" backflip once anyone wants to move past her back history about why everybody else is to blame for causing her disorder.

So despite her eagerness, I don't think she is ready. She needs therapy to enable her to commit to therapy, catch 22

Interesting observation and thank you for the incite. What I see in my wife is she will do things she knows are self harming (like leave me and the kids) so as to drive herself to the bottom. She feels so low she seeks therapy, but once she feels better she stops and the cycle starts over.     

Your wife blames others for her disorder? Mine goes back and forth between everyone is mean to her and everything is her fault for being mentally ill.