My boundary: three strikes and you're out

[unicorn2014]

Today started out contentious because I found out my SO did not go to church and I was disappointed. Yes, I know I should not have an expectation of him going to church. I was not able to go to church either as my teenager does not want to go to church and I do not want to leave her home alone. I will be getting help with someone from my parish to deal with this problem.


I told my SO if he hung up on me a 3rd time that I would not talk to him for the rest of the day. He hung up on me once on the phone. I called him back to let him know I wasn't finished talking. Then later he sent me a text "I will get back with you around 3pm est

and no more txt from me".  That didn't work for me as I am expecting a phone call from a parish member about my daughter and I also want to go out for a run. I facetimed him to tell him the way he was talking to me wasn't working for me, I would have preferred it if he said "I would like to call you back at 3pm EST, will that work for you?"

He ended up hanging up on me on that FaceTime call. I facetimed him back to tell him if he did that again I wouldn't be talking to him the rest of the day and then  he hung up on me a third time.  I put my cell phone in do not disturb mode so he called me on my home phone to apologize for hanging up on me. First he apologized for getting irritated then he started to talk about he knew I was under stress and I cut him off and told him it had nothing to do with me being under stress, either he was sorry or he was not.

One of the problems we were having this morning is I was trying to get him to understand that I experience any emotionally laden text message as passive aggressive.

Do you think its appropriate to tell a 56 year old man this, three strikes and you're out? I feel like I'm treating him like a child however I don't like the way he's treating me and I don't know what else to do.


Also,  I noticed he interrupted me and I started making a tally of the times he interrupted me. He did not like this, however  it was a good reality check for me. Again I am open to suggestion if I am not doing this correctly. In SWOE it suggests keeping a log of borderline behavior. I know others have mentioned interrupting people is a common borderline behavior.

So if I accept his apology and FaceTime  him back is that reinforcing his bad behavior or is it moving forward?

Reading this it seems really childish and immature but this is what we go through on a weekly if not daily basis and I want to shed some light on it. Anybody else I would talk to about this would tell me to leave the relationship. In fact one of the things I told him today is that I have to contain an inordinate amount of anger in order to stay in the relationship and some people would leave with all that anger. I also told him I was trying to be patient. I actually told him the amount of excuses he gave me was like his homework ate his dog and he told me that was very clever. I can't take credit for that line. I feel like this relationship has all but destroyed my ability to be clever. I know I probably shouldn't have said that but I am very frustrated, as I said.

The thing that created the conflict on FaceTime is I was trying to talk to him about the fact that my 15 year old has a hickey on her neck and he kept calling it a mark and that was triggering me. One of the reasons I stay in the relationship with him is because he is so helpful with parenting and I pointed this out to him. So I got triggered, was trying to handle that, meanwhile he was irritated. Not a good combination.

I know some people might ask me why am I trying to coparent with a pwBPD and the answer to that would be usually I find him helpful.

Every time I try to start a thread it runs into something else so I'm sorry if this is confusing for any readers.

Thank you in advance for any replies.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Turkish]

Can you see the triangulation going on here, unicorn? It's fine to assert a boundary (and his hanging up, no matter how rude, was his boundary), but you enacted a "game" here, where you seemed to trap him into doing what you knew he was going to do in the first place. This seems like the "Kick Me" game, where you, the Persecutor-Parent trapped him in the role of Victim-Child. You acted one way, and he reacted based upon your actions. It's like as a parent, going into your teenager's room, smelling smoke, and asking, "who's been smoking in here?" when you know full well that it was your teen. It's playing a game where there can be no possible winners.

How about losing the "3 strikes" rule (which sounds like a judicial-correctional term, where there is a judge, courtroom, police, and prison), and make it a simple boundary: short of dropped calls, 1 hang up and you're done for the day.

[unicorn2014]

Thank you Turkish, I will try that rule tomorrow.

What about when I hang up on him? I have a boundary where I terminate conversations with people who put down and humiliate me. How do I enforce a boundary around him hanging up on me when I also need to hang up on him?

I recognize this is crazy.

[chump]

Today started out contentious because I found out my SO did not go to church and I was disappointed. Yes, I know I should not have an expectation of him going to church.

Do you think its appropriate to tell a 56 year old man this, three strikes and you're out? I feel like I'm treating him like a child however I don't like the way he's treating me and I don't know what else to do.

I know I've done some creative editing of your post, I cut out the rest and highlighted just this part. I've mentioned boundaries in other posts and this seems like a great example of blurry lines. A 56 year old man can decide whether to attend church or not.

[unicorn2014]

Chump I said I recognize I should not be mad at him for not going to church.

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The question is do I tell him if you hang up on me I won't talk to you anymore today? Do I text him that after he hangs up on me? What about if I terminate the call because he put me down or humiliated me? Do I not talk to him for the rest of the day?

[formflier]

 

Turkish is spot on... .SIMPLE IS BETTER.

The value/boundary should be a simple direct statement... .make it about you... .if it is about him... it is more like a punishment.

"If I need to take a break from communicating from my SO, I will take a break for 24 hours"  (or 1 day)

"Telling" him why sounds very close to "explaining". 

Much better to show him.

"I'm not able to continue this conversation right now.  I will call you tomorrow morning"  No explanations... .no threats.

So don't say... ."you hung up on me... so I'm going to (fill in blank)"

If you make it about you... .and stay calm... .he will figure it out.

FF

[unicorn2014]

I hear what you are saying. So I guess if he hangs up on me and calls me back I could tell him that?

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And I guess if I feel put down or humiliated I can tell him the same thing and then hang up. In that case I would probably say I can't continue this conversation right now I'll call you back in an hour.

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It was actually him telling me he would get back with me at a certain time that upset me.

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[Turkish]

"If you hang up on me, I will not answer any subsequent calls until the next day." Firm, and consistent. And don't call him back. BIFF: brief, informative, friendly, firm. Deviating will lead to confusion.

Agree about the church thing (or anything similar). It's his choice to do, or not.

Keep it simple, keep it consistent.

[unicorn2014]

Turkish so what do I do if he hangs up on me before I get a chance to say that?

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I know I should not be mad at him for not going to church.

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[Turkish]

Turkish so what do I do if he hangs up on me before I get a chance to say that?

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I know I should not be mad at him for not going to church.

Send it in an email. BIFF. No more than a sentence or two. If he responds with a long-winded diatribe, then validate, and BIFF it shorter, then don't respond further. Enforce your boundary, don't call him back to JADE (which from my view is what you may have done). Be consistent, and don't create a target other than a from boundary.

[Grey Kitty]

Do you think its appropriate to tell a 56 year old man this, three strikes and you're out? I feel like I'm treating him like a child however I don't like the way he's treating me and I don't know what else to do.

Well, it clearly didn't work, if you look at the results.

Your assessment of how you feel about his treatment of you is spot-on. It is really sucky.

Your assessment is that you are treating him like a child is also pretty close to spot-on. Emotionally, I've compared a pwBPD to a three-year-old before, so that is pretty tempting.

However, no, it didn't work. While he may be acting like a three-year-old, if your relationship is one where you act like his parent, this isn't gonna work.

So how would I do things differently?

First, boundary enforcement is NOT to change his behavior. It is to protect you from the consequences of his behavior. This three-strike rule of yours feels more like punishment to me than protecting yourself.

Second, when you tell him that you are going to do this, that is like giving him a challenge. So I'm not surprised he did hangup on you three times, then tried to push you around this.

Last, I'm going to suggest that you re-think your view of him hanging up on you--it really helps you, instead of hurting you.

Why does he hang up on you? Because he is upset and having trouble managing his emotions around you, if not fully dysregulated. If he is like this, you do NOT want to talk to him. Nothing good will come of the conversation at that time, and it doesn't matter if you have finished what you are trying to tell him or not--he isn't in a state he will listen to you and respond reasonably. He's more likely to be verbally abusive, and otherwise difficult. This is the kind of time where you should be getting ready to get off the phone to protect yourself from the CRAP he's about to say.

If he WANTS to get away from you at any given time, letting him go away is the best thing you can do for your relationship!

It would be really nice if he was self-aware and could politely say "I'm too upset to talk to you right now, lets get back to this topic later when I've calmed down. I still love you. Goodbye."

He's not. Instead he hangs up on you. You might do well to mentally make the translation next time he hangs up on you.

Still, the result he's aiming for is a the best possible one at the time, and one that many members here have real trouble getting their pwBPD to support. They want to get out of a fight before the two of them hurt each other more than they already have... .and as they try to leave, the pwBPD keeps chasing them around and trying to keep them fighting.

Ok... .let me step down off that soapbox

What do YOU do when he's hung up on you and you feel hurt and rejected, and want to finish the discussion you were having before he hung up?

First, give yourself time for your emotions to calm down and return to normal (non-fight) levels. At least 15-20 minutes.

Second, stay away from him until the hot part of your anger or other negative feelings have faded.

Start doing something that you will find enjoyable or productive that doesn't involve him in anyway, rather than getting stuck focused on what he was doing. If whatever you were trying to discuss is really important and bugging you, perhaps come here and post the whole story, then try to get about your day for a bit.

Only after calming down a bit think about contacting him again.

[unicorn2014]

Grey Kitty your approach works better as telling him I'd call him tomorrow after he hung up on me in the morning would be very extreme for our relationship, not to mention I hung up on him a couple of times.

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I know what happened yesterday. I'm having a problem getting my teen to church, so I'm not going because I can't trust her to stay home alone. Yesterday was a perfect example, she got in trouble, again.

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I am mad at him because he is not reconciling himself to church and keeps talking about I love you, I miss you, we're a family, and yet he's not doing the very thing that would make us a family.

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I think on a deeper level I'm struggling with the results of his actions  of over three years ago where feelings equal facts and he initiated a long distance relationship with me while still married.

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I get irritated every single time he tells me he misses me because the only times he's seen me are when he's stayed in my apartment, or we've stayed in a hotel.

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That is not a boundary issue, that's me having a problem with his feelings equal facts.

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I feel like I haven't even had an opportunity to miss him yet because our relationship has not yet looked like the way I want it to be.

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It really bothers me when he tells me he misses sleeping with me.

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I'm struggling with my own conservative values and realizing they may be too conservative, which does tie back into boundaries because boundaries are values. I think if I were to replace the word boundaries with the word values I'd probably have an easier time of it.

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Its possible I picked a fight with him yesterday because I was annoyed with him for sleeping in and not going to church coupled with the fact that I could not go to church. He doesn't have a teen and he does have a car, I don't, so I was like "what's his problem, he doesn't have the same obstacles I do." I recognize and know this attitude is wrong. I could write more but I have work to do so I'll write more later.

[KateCat]

Your fellow may have a big divorce Catch-22 on his plate.

On the one hand, he'd like to continue to travel to see you; buy you gifts; and otherwise act like a supportive life partner. On the other hand, the more he does so, the further he may fall from divorce-ready status.

Here's a general article on dissipation of marital assets, American-style. It's written to address specific rules in the state of Colorado, but it would probably apply to my state too as well as many other U.S. states, as a general overview:

https://www.ggfamilylaw.com/content/divorce-and-dissipation-hidden-assets-and-spending

So, this is my long-winded way of saying I think the advice you're getting from formflier and Grey Kitty is very good advice. Steer clear of the issue of marital status (hard as that may be) and concentrate on communication tools as you work your way through values and decisions.

[unicorn2014]

Your fellow may have a big divorce Catch-22 on his plate.

On the one hand, he'd like to continue to travel to see you; buy you gifts; and otherwise act like a supportive life partner. On the other hand, the more he does so, the further he may fall from divorce-ready status.

Thank you Kate Cat, he has not traveled to see me since June when I put the brakes on the relationship. I had asked him to show me he filed in June but he already bought tickets to come see me. In September I found out there was no divorce filed with the court. He maintains he filed and either his lawyer did not file with the court or the court did not file the papers. He says he is looking for a new lawyer.

He does continue to buy me gifts, and they are a mixture of practical and romantic gifts.

I did ask him point blank if the article you suggested is the reason his divorce is getting held up, and he asked me where I got the article instead of answering my question. This will be an interesting conversation. You may have hit pay dirt. He's being very evasive about answering my question. I will let you know what I find out.

Meanwhile as I said I have realized my values may be a bit too conservative and I may have to become a little more liberal.

I do think its positive I am building a relationship with his parents/dad. That does give me hope, make me feel optimistic. If I do take the issue of his marriage out of the picture he is suited to me as a life partner in terms of the work he does and the kind of work I want to do. Its kind of ironic, I feel like his marriage is like my ex husband's drug abuse. Both either are getting or got in the way of a healthy relationship.

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A current problem I am having with him is his constant I miss you, I love you, I wish I were sleeping with you, I like being with you, you look nice, all day, every day. I could talk more about this later if someone would direct me to creating a proper topic for it.

[KateCat]

Exiting a long marriage is one of the hardest things a middle-aged person may ever have to do, even when there's a compelling reason to divorce.

I happened to hear from my friend who is in the divorce process just this week. He now has an agreement in hand (following an all-day mediation session which ended with him writing over $15K in checks to lawyers and paralegals in attendance, for services rendered during just that one session). His divorce decree should now issue shortly. He too is a businessman, and with one stroke of the pen his net worth will be cut in half. And the same will go for his ex, so nobody is celebrating.

[unicorn2014]

Exiting a long marriage is one of the hardest things a middle-aged person may ever have to do, even when there's a compelling reason to divorce.

I happened to hear from my friend who is in the divorce process just this week. He now has an agreement in hand (following an all-day mediation session which ended with him writing over $15K in checks to lawyers and paralegals in attendance, for services rendered during just that one session). His divorce decree should now issue shortly. He too is a businessman, and with one stroke of the pen his net worth will be cut in half. And the same will go for his ex, so nobody is celebrating.

Yes and my SO is significantly older then me.

My SO said the short answer to is that his problem, the article you gave me, no, however he does have an agreement that curtails his spending.

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I think for me what frustrates me the most of all is my SO promised me all these things I wanted, most of all an intact family, and now its been 3 years Ive been in this LDR with no end in sight. He is working on earning money with the intent of supporting himself and my family, so he's not being negligent.

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He recently increased his dosage of medication so he is less reactive to me which really helps.

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I agree that the 3 strikes and you're out rule is immature, so I'm glad I talked about it here. I'm going to read through this thread again and take notes for the next time I either feel like hanging up on him or he hangs up on me so I can handle it better. Today we were able to talk about his divorce without a fight and I thanked him for it.

[formflier]

  and now its been 3 years Ive been in this LDR with no end in sight. 

A quick reality check here.  Not only is there no end in site... .but in three years the trip hasn't even started... .right?

It is very likely that a complicated divorce situation will take a long time to meander through the court system.  Lots of discovery, motions, filings, hearings... . 



However... none of those things start until one party actually files for divorce with the court.  Filing with a lawyer... is not a term I have ever heard about.  We've had lawyers in previous threads explain this procedure.

One thing that KateCat didn't mention was how long the friend had been dealing with this.

What is your expectation on when he will actually be divorced so the r/s with you can proceed?

I'm glad you were able to have a discussion about divorce without a fight... .however I thought there was talk on this thread of not talking anymore to him about the divorce.   His business... .let him handle it.  And to be clear... .there is no divorce... .only talk of maybe doing it someday.

[waverider]

As far as hang ups are concerned you need to both agree on a right and wrong way of ending a conversation if either of you feel triggered. This is why he does it. His emotions become overloaded and he doesn't have a healthier 'go to" way to disengage.

":)o not hang up on m", without an acceptable alternative is in fact a controlling action rather than a boundary.

Once you have that in place then a one strike rule consistently applied is better. Three strikes allows the behavior sometimes and is bordering on intermittent reinforcement. It should be about the behavior not counting incidences, which leads to brinkmanship

[waverider]

If the RS does progress past LDR that is substantially changing the status quo, do you thing deep down that is a threat to him, hence the "barriers"

[unicorn2014]

A quick reality check here.  Not only is there no end in site... .but in three years the trip hasn't even started... .right?

Wrong, the trip has started as he under an agreement not to spend joint assets.

It is very likely that a complicated divorce situation will take a long time to meander through the court system.  Lots of discovery, motions, filings, hearings... . 

Yes, that is what he told me.

However... none of those things start until one party actually files for divorce with the court.  Filing with a lawyer... is not a term I have ever heard about.  We've had lawyers in previous threads explain this procedure.

He delegated filing with the court to his lawyer, he said.

What is your expectation on when he will actually be divorced so the r/s with you can proceed?

I have no idea.

I'm glad you were able to have a discussion about divorce without a fight... .however I thought there was talk on this thread of not talking anymore to him about the divorce.   His business... .let him handle it.  And to be clear... .there is no divorce... .only talk of maybe doing it someday.

I simply asked him if that article was relevant.

There is something as he can not use joint assets, however whatever money he earns from here on out as his to keep.

I'm mad about being in this position in the first place, LDR with a pwBPD traits. However its not like there's anybody else suitable. Having never been in a LDR I had no idea what was in store for me. I know that BPD family advises against them. Unfortunately I only came to BPD family after I got in a LDR.

I couldn't find anybody intellectually compatible locally. I got into this relationship as the result of liking  my partner's creative work. Getting into a romantic relationship was not my intention. Intellectually the relationship is great. Everybody that met my SO said "unicorn he is great for you, he is very smart just like you are." Unfortunately along with creative genius comes mental illness. That is the foundation of our relationship. I rarely talk about that part.  My SO is very high functioning.

[unicorn2014]

As far as hang ups are concerned you need to both agree on a right and wrong way of ending a conversation if either of you feel triggered. This is why he does it. His emotions become overloaded and he doesn't have a healthier 'go to" way to disengage.

":)o not hang up on m", without an acceptable alternative is in fact a controlling action rather than a boundary.

Once you have that in place then a one strike rule consistently applied is better. Three strikes allows the behavior sometimes and is bordering on intermittent reinforcement. It should be about the behavior not counting incidences, which leads to brinkmanship

I hear what you are saying and sometimes I have to hang up on him too.

Currently he's upset about the situation in France as all emotionally sensitive people are. I don't pay attention, that's how I take care of myself. I would advise him to do the same, but he already knows that.

People advised taking a break anywhere from 20 minutes to 1 day. I remember I used to talk about ended calls all the time with a former therapist, it used to happen on FaceTime a lot when he was in his old house. That was before I started writing on BPD family.

I know what happened yesterday. I was upset with him for not going to church, and I was also upset because I wasn't going to church. I was also upset because I had discovered a hickey on my daughter's neck the night before and I hadn't told my partner about it, so I probably had my knickers in a twist. Then when he tells me he misses me I want to go off on him because there's nothing he can do to help me.

Today I was actually able to tell him that it confuses me when he tells me he misses me but there are no plans to come see me. He said he thought that he wasn't going to come see me until his situation was resolved. I said that was true. He really didn't know there was a problem with his divorce.

I think the problem with my partner and I is we both can get heated however he did increase the dosage of his medication so he is less overreactive now which really helps both.

I think the next time either he hangs up on me or I hang up on him I'm going to immediately bring it here and try as much as possible to report factually what happened so the staying board can help me even more.

Also I have a big win to report, my partner said he would both get us copies of the high conflict couple again. I had given mine away to my ex partner in the hopes it would help with co-parenting but then I found out my ex-partner was still actively using drugs, so that dashed all hopes to the ground. That of course is an issue for the co-parenting board, except for the fact there is no co-parenting at all.

[unicorn2014]

If the RS does progress past LDR that is substantially changing the status quo, do you thing deep down that is a threat to him, hence the "barriers"

Waverider, I do not know. He was all set to move out here in the end of October, when I discovered his divorce hadn't been filed with the court, that changed everything. He had to call off realtors, and storage units. I don't know how he let it get to that point but as I mentioned before he is a businessman and he did delegate his divorce to his lawyer.

OTOH I am happy that he stopped his moved because I didn't want that complication on my doorstep. OTOH I am unhappy because now he can't even come see me to take me out to a movie, dinner, the zoo, a hike, etc.

I definitely was not planning on getting a 3 year long LDR.

I do know that when he's constantly telling me he loves me, he misses me, he's glad he knows me, etc, its annoying to me because of the current state of things.

[formflier]

I don't know how he let it get to that point but as I mentioned before he is a businessman and he did delegate his divorce to his lawyer.

This detail has been discussed a lot on here.

If it is your belief that he told a lawyer to file, and that lawyer went against his clients wishes, or was incompetent and couldn't file a document with the court, then go with it.

If it is your belief that you caught him not telling the truth or omitting details, there still is really no reason to keep bringing up this detail.

There is obviously something holding up filing the divorce.  From everything I have read on here, it is doubtful the "real reason" will ever be known.

I am convinced the best was forward for your r/s and for chances that he may eventually file for divorce is to STOP DISCUSSING DIVORCE WITH HIM.

From everything I know about a pwBPD traits he is feeling "pressure" from you and is resisting.  Again... we'll never know why for sure.

If you stop talking about it... .the pressure may go away (he may be getting pressure from other sources as well)... .and perhaps the divorce may move forward.

FF

[unicorn2014]

I don't know how he let it get to that point but as I mentioned before he is a businessman and he did delegate his divorce to his lawyer.

This detail has been discussed a lot on here.

If it is your belief that he told a lawyer to file, and that lawyer went against his clients wishes, or was incompetent and couldn't file a document with the court, then go with it.

If it is your belief that you caught him not telling the truth or omitting details, there still is really no reason to keep bringing up this detail.

There is obviously something holding up filing the divorce.  From everything I have read on here, it is doubtful the "real reason" will ever be known.

I am convinced the best was forward for your r/s and for chances that he may eventually file for divorce is to STOP DISCUSSING DIVORCE WITH HIM.

From everything I know about a pwBPD traits he is feeling "pressure" from you and is resisting.  Again... we'll never know why for sure.

If you stop talking about it... .the pressure may go away (he may be getting pressure from other sources as well)... .and perhaps the divorce may move forward.

FF

FF, I'm not discussing it with him, I simply asked him a question and we had a reasonable discussion about it. There was no problem with us today. The problem is me. I'm not happy about the situation. I would like things to be different. I'm a SAHM in a LDR. Its far from ideal.

I can tell you an interesting story. One time I was discussing my life goals with him including buy a car and a condo, he got very upset. Its as if he wants me to wait around for him to move out here so he can buy a house for us to live in.  That was very telling. I'm not going to not have life goals while I wait for him to get a divorce. I remember a former therapist saying maybe I don't even want to live with him.  My own life got derailed when I filed for divorce 10 years ago and I'm still recovering from that.

From here on out whenever I have a conversation with him that seems sketchy to me I will bring it to the board.

[Grey Kitty]

I like to cut things down to the essential things, and here is your situation as I see it today:

You are in a LDR, engaged to a married man whose divorce is going very slowly, and whose statements about working on the divorce are not credible, and a source of big fights.

Question: You are a SAHM... .Is he supporting you financially? You mentioned gifts... .would you be able to live well without his gifts?

You are refusing to let him come and visit you or move closer to you at least until he files for divorce, if not until he completes his divorce.

You can only make choices about the things you control--how much you let him into your life. You cannot control his divorce.

A current problem I am having with him is his constant I miss you, I love you, I wish I were sleeping with you, I like being with you, you look nice, all day, every day.

I think you are stuck with some serious cognitive dissonance here--he is expressing love, commitment, desire with his words. Yet his actions on the commitment side are severely lacking.

I'm guessing that the result is you don't know what to believe and it makes it harder for you to appreciate the good parts.

[KateCat]

One thing that KateCat didn't mention was how long the friend had been dealing with this.

It took my friend two years of sitting down with an individual therapist twice a week to make the decision to file. However, the court action itself looks likely to conclude in under a year.

How can that be? Maybe because he lives in a U.S. state that has both "fault" and "no fault" divorce. Having ample grounds for beginning the action as a "fault" divorce, he did that. And thereby streamlined things. He had the upper hand.

Also, he is an upstanding guy. No "fault" on his side. Because his state may also allow for things like "alienation of affection" suits against a paramour; subpoenas issued to a paramour; compelled testimony of a paramour on the witness stand. Costly, ugly stuff.

I think it's critical not to discuss his divorce with him.

[unicorn2014]

Question: You are a SAHM... .Is he supporting you financially? You mentioned gifts... .would you be able to live well without his gifts?

Absolutely not. Live well? I managed on my own without him for 7 years. He did help me pay off some dental bills like a root canal as I don't have dental insurance. I did just fine before I met him. I just have to say this really strikes a nerve with me. I would never allow a married man to support with gifts. That is morally reprehensible to me. I am not a kept woman. I appreciate the contributions he makes to me and my daughter however they are not necessary, they simply improve quality of life. For that I am eternally grateful as I was severely neglected when I met him, however being an adult child of a dysfunctional family, I could survive like that for the rest of my life.

You are refusing to let him come and visit you or move closer to you at least until he files for divorce, if not until he completes his divorce.

No, I'm refusing to let him stay in my apartment. I wish he would come and visit. He actually does not want to move out here with things being unresolved. He did not know things were unresolved.

I think you are stuck with some serious cognitive dissonance here--he is expressing love, commitment, desire with his words. Yet his actions on the commitment side are severely lacking.

He is committed, however he had a prior commitment that is holding him back. However I do agree with you. He's telling me he loves me, he misses me, he enjoys being with me, he's glad he knows me, meanwhile his assets are locked up so he has to earn money so he can come visit me. I would be very happy if he were to move out here, get his own place, and we were to have our own relationship. All I asked that he get the ball rolling on his divorce, not that it be finalized. I understand that that could take a long time. I thought it unwise for him to move out here without his divorce even being filed with the court.

So, can I tell him I'm experiencing cognitive dissonance?

I'm guessing that the result is you don't know what to believe and it makes it harder for you to appreciate the good parts.

No, I'm frustrated that he expects me to put my life on hold while I wait for him to get his divorce. I was ready to go when I met him.

(I am trying to transition out of being a SAHM but I have been experiencing setbacks since July.)

[formflier]

FF, I'm not discussing it with him, I simply asked him a question and we had a reasonable discussion about it.

Hey... .I think it would be good to slow down on issues, decisions, advice... .   I don't understand at all how you can not discuss it with him... .but then have a reasonable discussion about it... . 

There has been lots of discussion and questions... but I'm confused about what you have and haven't decided... or even what you are upset about.

I don't think there is anyone on this board that is offering you advice that thinks it would be helpful for you to discuss, question, mention, hint, email, text, facetime... .or with any other form of communication... .the word divorce with him.

It's out of your control.  He obviously has some tall tales surrounding it... .and lot of smoke gets made that seems to obscure issues that perhaps are more important.

FF

[unicorn2014]

FF, I hear what you are saying and I simply wanted to know if the article that was posted  had anything to do with his delay. I know I made a mistake to ask him about it. It is very hard for me to "let go and let God" on this one but I really am trying.

Every day, all day  I hear I love you, I miss you, I want to be with you, I enjoy being with you, I like you, you look nice, I'm glad I know you, I wish this was over, I want to get on with my life, all his terms of endearment for me, I want to get you this, I want to get you that.

I am experiencing major cognitive dissonance, its true.

[Cat Familiar]

He actually does not want to move out here with things being unresolved. He did not know things were unresolved.

OK, this guy you've identified as older, a businessman and smart. That he didn't know the divorce wasn't filed or that things were "unresolved"--I'm sorry--this bullsh-t stinks to high heaven. He's over 50--anyone that old would know something about divorce and legal matters. You absolutely know when you're divorced--been through it--it's not just giving some attorney papers to file. I think you're getting played. Do you really have verification that he actually sold his business and that he no longer lives with his wife?

I'm sorry. I don't mean to be cruel, but I've seen sociopaths prey upon women for a variety of reasons and there are so many things you relate that raise major red flags.

From what I see, it looks like this relationship is giving you little benefit but major anxiety. You say he's co-parenting your daughter, but soon your daughter will be an adult, maybe even before he can complete a divorce. So I'm just not sure what you're getting out of this relationship or will get out of it in the future.

I wish you well and I think everyone here is trying to help you out, but there's a part of you that keeps saying, "no, that's not the problem" when presented with feedback and advice, then that part continues to complain about the same issue.

Things won't change until you change your behavior. I know that's much easier said than done.