Are pwBPD typically users?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I've posted on here a couple of times. I'm at the point where I'm so lost. And giving up on my BPDexbf. My BPDexbf is homeless. That's the condition he was in when I met him. When we were together back in the Spring time, I helped him out so much financially. He kept insisting he was so close to "getting his business going". Nothing ever did pan out, of course. Then we had a fight (rather small compared to most of our others) about money and he fell off the face of the earth. I ended up finding him several weeks later (I know him very well. I know where he stays, where he frequents. He may be homeless and not have a ground zero, but as long he stays in the state I met him in, I will always be able to find him), he had been out all night with his new girlfriend. I tend to believe she was the rebound from me.

Well, they didn't last, of course and we've been talking again the last couple of months. At some point during the 4 months between when he left me and we started talking again, his truck that he had been living in died. He had to sell it to a junk yard, there was just no fixing it. So, after a little over a month of waiting for him to figure it out and it started getting REALLY cold at night, I didn't have the heart to let him continue sleeping on the streets. I gave him $500 to get a car. He continued talking to me for about 2 weeks after that and has now disappeared again. I feel used, in addition to the obvious rejection.

For a while I went back and forth as to if he's a legit sociopath, but the biggest difference between a socio and my ex is that there is just NO planning he is capable of doing. While we dated, we would make plans and they would always change in the blink of an eye. Nothing could ever stick. Socio's plan out very carefully what they're going to do to people, how they're going to use them. That's not at all the case with my ex. I've titled him now OCI; Obsessive Compulsive Impulsiveness. Is this typical behavior, though, of BPD? Using people? I know they're an empty hole, you're always having to give, give, give to them and nothing is ever enough. But usually that's in terms of emotionality. Do you think the same rings true financially? Anyone else have an experience where they help so much financially, do great acts of miracles to help them in ways no one else on the face of the earth would even consider and never have it be enough? I just can't help but think if someone would help buy me a car, I would owe them my life. I would forever be indebted. Especially when it's on top of the all the other financial gains he's received from me. He's loyal to no one, no matter how much they help him. Why and wth?

[shawnav]

I've posted on here a couple of times. I'm at the point where I'm so lost. And giving up on my BPDexbf. My BPDexbf is homeless. That's the condition he was in when I met him. When we were together back in the Spring time, I helped him out so much financially. He kept insisting he was so close to "getting his business going". Nothing ever did pan out, of course. Then we had a fight (rather small compared to most of our others) about money and he fell off the face of the earth. I ended up finding him several weeks later (I know him very well. I know where he stays, where he frequents. He may be homeless and not have a ground zero, but as long he stays in the state I met him in, I will always be able to find him), he had been out all night with his new girlfriend. I tend to believe she was the rebound from me.

Well, they didn't last, of course and we've been talking again the last couple of months. At some point during the 4 months between when he left me and we started talking again, his truck that he had been living in died. He had to sell it to a junk yard, there was just no fixing it. So, after a little over a month of waiting for him to figure it out and it started getting REALLY cold at night, I didn't have the heart to let him continue sleeping on the streets. I gave him $500 to get a car. He continued talking to me for about 2 weeks after that and has now disappeared again. I feel used, in addition to the obvious rejection.

For a while I went back and forth as to if he's a legit sociopath, but the biggest difference between a socio and my ex is that there is just NO planning he is capable of doing. While we dated, we would make plans and they would always change in the blink of an eye. Nothing could ever stick. Socio's plan out very carefully what they're going to do to people, how they're going to use them. That's not at all the case with my ex. I've titled him now OCI; Obsessive Compulsive Impulsiveness. Is this typical behavior, though, of BPD? Using people? I know they're an empty hole, you're always having to give, give, give to them and nothing is ever enough. But usually that's in terms of emotionality. Do you think the same rings true financially? Anyone else have an experience where they help so much financially, do great acts of miracles to help them in ways no one else on the face of the earth would even consider and never have it be enough? I just can't help but think if someone would help buy me a car, I would owe them my life. I would forever be indebted. Especially when it's on top of the all the other financial gains he's received from me. He's loyal to no one, no matter how much they help him. Why and wth?

[hopealways]

Yes they are.  They need you to give give give so they convince themselves that you are in so deep and care so much that you will never abandon them.

[Herodias]

You are thinking that by helping them they will be indebted to you and stay with you, but it doesn't work that way... .They actually think less of you for doing it. Get yourself healthy and leave him be. You will attract healthy people when you are healthy- Mine was homeless at one time too. I took him in when he was a stock clerk and then became a store manager after 9 years... .he didn't think he needed me anymore. Guess what, he was wrong! Watch some of these videos for help; Ross Rosenberg on co-dependency

Codependency Recovery Stages. Full Psych Central Webinar. Relationship Advice.Narcissism Expert

https://youtu.be/mMPaKJfrZrA

[Mutt]

I can see how disappointing and hurtful that would feel when you care about someone and help the out that they don't thank you for your kindness.

Criterion for BPD is a marked impulsitivity, unstable self of self and chaotic interpersonal relationships and have dependency issues with intolerance of aloneness and counterdependency.

A pwBPD feel more negative feelings than positive ones and project their inner turmoil. A pwBPD have chronic feelings of shame, low self worth, feel evil and are very hard on themselves.

Do you think that he could be embarrassed about being homeless or maybe he could be embarrassed that he can't pay you the $500 back and that could be why he's avoiding you? That's a lot of money for some people. I think that's a very kind thing to do and I agree with you in terms of emotionality, it could be that it's too emotional for him now and maybe he will thank you some day?

[cloudten]

I would certainly feel used if I was in your shoes... .I think your feelings are justified.

I can only share with you what I found from my experience with a dBPDxbf.

He was born into a highly disfunctional, very wealthy family. So mine had the unique feature of unlimited funding. ha. However, he was very generous with employees and people in need. He never gave me a dime. He never gave me flowers. He did give me a jacket he bought for $5 and a pair of expensive motorcycle boots. That's about it. We were together 3 years.

HOWEVER, I do have to say, he was very generous with me in ways that my own family failed me. When I met him I was jobless.  He let me move in with him after a couple of months... .and he let me live with him for nearly a year, rent free, so I could save up over $20k for my own place. Never has anyone else been so generous. Now of COURSE he always hung it over my head. The drama in those early days was that he didn't want me to live with him, but every time I went shopping for an apartment or a house, he would convince me of a thousand reasons not to leave... .to just stay and save up a little more... .so I would stay. Now that I sit here and type it out... .these things I haven't thought about in years... .I wish I had known what I knew about BPD then. I know I can't go back and change anything- but I wish things had played out differently. *sigh*

But- if he is left to his own devices... .which he is presently... .he will absolutely crash and burn. His 3 companies are not doing well. He is not capable of financial planning. His debt grows and grows. He cheats on his taxes. Someday he'll be okay when he inherits millions on millions from his father. I am sure he will blow it quickly. But... .if he didn't have his family's money, he would be in a gutter in the city with a needle in his arm.

[willtimeheal]

My exBPD used and abuse  me emotionally, verbally, and financially. She owes me money for car payments, phone bills, heating bills, trips, you name it. And she promised to pay it all back... .I have never and will never see a dime of it. Bpd' s don't care what they are taking as long as they are benefiting. They are users and abusers... .mentally ill. Shut the door and don't look back.

[hopealways]

My exBPD used and abuse  me emotionally, verbally, and financially. She owes me money for car payments, phone bills, heating bills, trips, you name it. And she promised to pay it all back... .I have never and will never see a dime of it. Bpd' s don't care what they are taking as long as they are benefiting. They are users and abusers... .mentally ill. Shut the door and don't look back.

IN BOLD: I am sorry to say but this is very true :'(

Typically they are very selfish, entitled, the worst of the worst.

[Michelle27]

For sure.  During most of the relationship, it didn't bother me that I made significantly more money than he did.  I carried the financial load, paying our mortgage, strata fees, groceries and anything related to the kids. He paid the utilities.  There were many Christmases that I took care of everything apart from his gifts to me.  Looking back, there were many complaints that I didn't spend enough on him and I was always taken aback by this.  When things were breaking down and he knew I was evaluating whether or not I could continue with the relationship with the help of a counselor, I was blown away when he said (while sweeping his hand around the house), "I can't believe you would consider giving all of this up.".  I now realize he was hanging onto me because of what I could provide for him.  I truly believe he was scared of losing that by the end which resulted in a very elaborate and faked attempt to act like he was seeking help.  I wanted assurance that he was seeking help for himself, and not just to keep me.  Over and over, he assured me he realized he needed help and wanted to do it for himself, but it just felt "off" to me.  Sure enough, when I told him I was done, he immediately quit his DBT, men's group attendance and I'm confident he canceled the psychiatrist appointment.  All that ruse just to keep his "things" and status. 

[Aussie0zborn]

Yes, pwBPD will absolutely use you for money or whatever they need at that moment. It's nothing new.

You were kind enough to help a person in need. Knowing you have empathy, you can now save it for somebody who deserves it. You simply paid $500 to learn a valuable lesson.

[Gonzalo]

Something I read that resonates with me and I think can help understand this situation is that pwBPD experiencing extremely intense emotions leads to a lot of the 'using' behaviors as well as the impulsiveness and unstable relationships. Because the condition ramps up the emotional intensity, especially fear of abandonment and/or engulfment, they experience just about any crisis as being a life-threatening emergency, even when it's something like 'my partner picked up the wrong thing from the store'. Pretty much anyone has a looser set of ethics for extreme situations - if it's 'steal this guy's wallet or your kid dies' or 'browbeat this guy into approving the document or mom loses her house', you'll steal or threaten even though it's something you'd normally consider wrong. For the pwBPD, every situation ends up being based on 'emergency ethics'. I think in a lot of cases the person with BPD doesn't set out wanting to use someone (unlike a sociopath), but their broken emotional system turns whatever is going on into a crisis and leads to them using whatever means necessary to get through it.

[Learning Fast]

Since mine had ample resources she wasn't a financial "user". In fact, we shared many dining and travel expenses throughout the time we were together.

The area where her "all about me" BPD tendencies were visible (excluding emotional behavior of course) would be in gift giving.  Once I get to know someone and a relationship develops I tend to give them gifts that are very personal based on what I've learned about that person.  She really wrestled with this and always tended to give me something that was based on what she liked versus what I might enjoy receiving (of course there is nothing wrong with this---it is simply more of an observation than anything else).  Additionally, this was also the case with many others to whom she gave gifts.  She really struggled with trying to see things through the eyes of the recipient.

[Beach_Babe]

Yes they are users, some more than others. If "saving" such a person is destroying you personally please run. People like this don't change.

[Little oak]

Mine used me to some extent... .she didn't work and complained about not having a car so I got her a new one on the condition she helped my mother who was ill with her shopping, well that didn't happen she drove past my mother struggling with her oxygen mask carrying shopping. We recycled many times then got back together before Christmas,I bought her children Christmas presents and purchased the food for Xmas then was kicked out again. She complained how she had no money so she had nearly £1000 out of me,yeah I feel ___ty for my behaviour but she certainly took what she could despite me being 'from a dysfunctional family' and the 'lowest of the low' in her words

[cloudten]

Mine used me to some extent... .she didn't work and complained about not having a car so I got her a new one on the condition she helped my mother who was ill with her shopping, well that didn't happen she drove past my mother struggling with her oxygen mask carrying shopping. We recycled many times then got back together before Christmas,I bought her children Christmas presents and purchased the food for Xmas then was kicked out again. She complained how she had no money so she had nearly £1000 out of me,yeah I feelty for my behaviour but she certainly took what she could despite me being 'from a dysfunctional family' and the 'lowest of the low' in her words

Awe little oak---- those were projections. She is the one from the dysfunctional family and the lowest of the low.

I think what I have figured out is that I have to be rubber. You know that old kids saying "I'm rubber and you're glue- what you say bounces off me and sticks to you".  We've gotta be rubber. Anything they accuse us of is actually stuck to them. it's all about them.

[willtimeheal]

Something I read that resonates with me and I think can help understand this situation is that pwBPD experiencing extremely intense emotions leads to a lot of the 'using' behaviors as well as the impulsiveness and unstable relationships. Because the condition ramps up the emotional intensity, especially fear of abandonment and/or engulfment, they experience just about any crisis as being a life-threatening emergency, even when it's something like 'my partner picked up the wrong thing from the store'. Pretty much anyone has a looser set of ethics for extreme situations - if it's 'steal this guy's wallet or your kid dies' or 'browbeat this guy into approving the document or mom loses her house', you'll steal or threaten even though it's something you'd normally consider wrong. For the pwBPD, every situation ends up being based on 'emergency ethics'. I think in a lot of cases the person with BPD doesn't set out wanting to use someone (unlike a sociopath), but their broken emotional system turns whatever is going on into a crisis and leads to them using whatever means necessary to get through it.

I understand what you are saying but I disagree to some extent. There were times my exBPD was fine and she still just took took took. Even st Christmas she would always give me a list of everything she wanted... .knowing she would get everything on the list... .and I would get nothing. Not even a card. She would tell me she didn't have any money and couldn't afford anything for me but then would pull out a new camera or pair of boots she bought for herself. There was no emotional crisis there... .just plain selfishness.  That is what they are selfish.

[Little oak]

I recall coming back to her home after work one day and there were numerous bags and parcels scattered everywhere,she had gone an ordered over £400.00 worth of clothing for herself,I didn't object but what I did object to was her feeling entitled that I pay half of it,her words were that's what people do for each other when you love someone,I was gob smacked... .she couldn't grasp what the issue was until her mum explained to her

[ReclaimingMyLife]

Something I read that resonates with me and I think can help understand this situation is that pwBPD experiencing extremely intense emotions leads to a lot of the 'using' behaviors as well as the impulsiveness and unstable relationships. Because the condition ramps up the emotional intensity, especially fear of abandonment and/or engulfment, they experience just about any crisis as being a life-threatening emergency, even when it's something like 'my partner picked up the wrong thing from the store'. Pretty much anyone has a looser set of ethics for extreme situations - if it's 'steal this guy's wallet or your kid dies' or 'browbeat this guy into approving the document or mom loses her house', you'll steal or threaten even though it's something you'd normally consider wrong. For the pwBPD, every situation ends up being based on 'emergency ethics'. I think in a lot of cases the person with BPD doesn't set out wanting to use someone (unlike a sociopath), but their broken emotional system turns whatever is going on into a crisis and leads to them using whatever means necessary to get through it.

This really resonates with me too.  Thanks for posting, Gonzalo.  Just about EVERYTHING in my ex's life was a crisis.  Which then "justified" (necessitated) his "crisis mode" behavior. 

My objection or question to this line of thinking is that in my ex's case, he kept the ruse going for 20+ months.  So this wasn't an "in the moment" crisis.  While his life was filled with chaos, he created THE one crisis against which everything else happened.  THE crisis was in fact a LIE.  He just kept it going and going.  I guess because it worked.  It kept me around in a way that I would not have otherwise been. 

So maybe the actual crisis to him was that I was likely to leave.  And so, THE fake crisis was created and re-played anytime I got too far away.   Boy was I a sucker.  He got me hook, line and sinker every damn time.

So, shawnav, my experience was that my ex used the heck out of me.  He got lots o money from me, attention, time, gifts.  He totally used me.  Repeatedly.  But like in the quote above, I am not convinced he set out to do so. 

And I let him.  Damn. 

[balletomane]

My ex did use me and he was very selfish, if selfish is the right word - it wasn't that he ignored my needs, more that he honestly didn't seem to understand that I had any. It was as if all he could see was himself.

He did not use me in a financial sense: we were always very equitable when it came to money, sharing food and transport costs, etc. It was emotional. When he had self-harmed, he expected me to comfort him and look after him, and if I didn't say things he found helpful, he would lash out at me and start blaming me for making him worse (and it was so very easy to say the 'wrong' thing - sometimes it felt as though nothing I did or said would ever be right). Earlier in our relationship, he could sometimes be loving and supportive of me, but as he got involved with my replacement and made friends at his new job that sometimes became never. If I was upset or needed some support, he would tell me tersely that he was busy, or that I should "pull myself together", or that I was making life harder for him. Now I understand that for him kindness is like a currency - he stopped providing support to me when he found someone to replace me with, because he no longer saw a point in investing in a relationship that couldn't offer him anything any more.

In our relationship, I never got a present. Not for my birthday, not for Christmas. Never. He bought me a little token gift (a badge with an owl on it - I like owls) when he told me that he had replaced me with his flatmate. He evidently perceived this as a caring gesture. To me it was patronising and a painful example of just how poor his social and emotional skills are, because who wants a souvenir of the day they learn they've been cheated on and are no longer wanted? I think even that was done for his benefit, to stem any feelings of guilt - "Look at me, I am nice, I got her a present." Looking back on the relationship, it does seem as though he was incapable of real generosity.

[Gonzalo]

My objection or question to this line of thinking is that in my ex's case, he kept the ruse going for 20+ months.  So this wasn't an "in the moment" crisis. 

Right, it's not an actual crisis, in my experience pwBPD can often deal quite well with a real crisis, and other times completely fall apart to the point where they can't manipulate anyone. It's just that they perceive events as a crisis, and this is often made worse by their push-pull behavior and tendency to create chaos if life gets too quiet. I'm not saying that your BPD had a legitimate reason for what she did, or that you should accept it because of a crisis. I'm just offering a tool to help understand the motivations and thought processes that lead to unplanned 'user' behavior that doesn't make a lot of sense.

My ex's behavior confused me because it seemed to switch between using me and caring for me, beyond just push-pull. When I looked at it with the filter 'she thought she was in an emergency', a lot of it suddenly made sense to me. I have no desire to go back, and it doesn't make the stuff she did OK, it just helps me to understand what was happening, and confirms that she is someone I can't have in my life.

[Little oak]

Right, it's not an actual crisis, in my experience pwBPD can often deal quite well with a real crisis, and other times completely fall apart to the point where they can't manipulate anyone. It's just that they perceive events as a crisis, and this is often made worse by their push-pull behavior and tendency to create chaos if life gets too quiet. I'm not saying that your BPD had a legitimate reason for what she did, or that you should accept it because of a crisis. I'm just offering a tool to help understand the motivations and thought processes that lead to unplanned 'user' behavior that doesn't make a lot of sense.

My ex's behavior confused me because it seemed to switch between using me and caring for me, beyond just push-pull. When I looked at it with the filter 'she thought she was in an emergency', a lot of it suddenly made sense to me. I have no desire to go back, and it doesn't make the stuff she did OK, it just helps me to understand what was happening, and confirms that she is someone I can't have in my life.[/quote]
I often found my ex had to have some conflict going on in life or some sort of drama or be involved in somebody else's arguments when it never concerned her. I'd always ask her why can't we just have a quiet drama free life but she felt she had been wronged and I couldn't get it through to her that sometimes it's best to step away from the drama. She had a habit of making a mountain out of a mole hill even her mother acknowledged that fact,she would completely over react to something and blow it all out of proportion.