The outcome of refusing to make the expected apologies

[Lifewriter16]

A few days ago, I informed my BPDbf (or BPDxbf, who knows because he keeps changing his mind) that I will only say sorry for causing hurt that I feel responsible for.

This has caused 5 days worth of dysregulation including him sending me the email I posted last week: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=286959.msg12703769#msg12703769

I have said that I'm sorry that he's hurting and expressed similar sentiments where I felt I could honestly do so and repeatedly encouraged him to consider why my refusal to sorry for hurting him is such an issue. He hasn't been able to hear me. I don't suppose you are surprised at that.

Today, he started with the 'let's be friends' routine. We tried that 6 weeks ago and it led to two enormous dysregulations that culminated in him going no contact. So, I don't think it'll work. He said in an email that this is our last chance, so I have decided to tell him how it is for me and sent him this email:



"Okay. I'm going to be honest with you. I wasn't honest earlier.

I want to avoid you or run away from you because when you are triggered you push and push and push me by text/email until you get what you want, regardless of whether I want to give it to you. When you don't get what you want, you swear at me, blame me, tell me what's wrong with me, demand apologies for hurting you repeatedly, call me names, insult me, threaten to leave me, try to force me into leaving you, try to manipulate me by telling me that my behaviour means I don't love you, cancel our dates, dump me, change your mind, dump me again, tell me you've had enough, accuse me of wanting to dump you and send text after text after text until I feel so battered and bruised under the weight of your bad behaviour that I just want to escape from you.

I don't know how to manage your dysregulations but I sure know that they are happening. What is happening between us isn't normal and it isn't what I want. I have seen the sheer ferocity of your dysregulations. One day, whilst you are out of touch with your own behaviour, you could do something terrible. I don't want that worry over my head. I don't want to live in fear. I also don't want to have to watch everything I say just in case it causes you to feel something which leads to another dysregulation. Right now, the dysregulations are coming thick and fast and I feel constantly anxious.

Unless you get further therapeutic assistance and take responsibility for your actions, I don't want to be close friends with you, more acquaintances who meet occasionally for coffee and to catch-up. I don't want to be here for the day-to-day traumas because if you are upset, it very often turns into a dysregulation that is aimed at me. You pick on a little thing I say or do and misinterpret it, feel hurt by what you have imagined I meant and then let me have the force of your anger along with your fury for all the upset you are already carrying. I don't want us to be enemies or to have to cross the street when we see each other. If that were to happen, I would deem it tragic given the level of love we have for each other. My original thinking behind us being friends, was that it might help us to let go of each other since going no contact is so dreadful and I am so miserable that I need to let go. I thought it might help us to make the break more easily. However, on reflection, I don't think being friends will work because I would still trigger you, still not meet your expectations and still be around to kick when something else is going wrong in your life. Last time we tried it, it caused a major dysregulation and we ended up going no contact for 6 weeks. I'd rather we withdrew as friends than become enemies.

I'm sorry to give you hope and then take it away. I'm also sorry for the hurt that you will undoubtedly feel when you read my perspective on what happens between us. I don't want you to feel hurt. I want you to see what you are doing and take responsibility for it and get help so we have a real shot at being together. The reason I come back repeatedly is because I hope, beyond hope, that we can make it work and this time, you won't dysregulate or I will be able to handle it. I am proved wrong time and time again. Please look at yourself without hatred and self-loathing so you can get help with this. I don't hate you or think that your self-loathing is warranted even with the dysregulations. I certainly don't want you to punish yourself. I just want you to be released into love for yourself. I want to see an end to your self-torture. I want to see the death of the punitive parent. If anything good comes out of it for us, then that is a bonus. I basically want you to be well and free of pain.

Are you willing to get some more help? It seems to me, that you are most likely to react by resorting to using bully attack against me to fend off this challenge. Please know that I challenge you because I love you not because I am trying to hurt you. Whatever you choose, please take time to process what I have said instead and only get back to me when you have done that.

Love L xx"



I am now bracing myself for the backlash which I suspect will be enormous, and that's even though he's had 6 months of DBT, 2 years in schema therapy and has gone through a drug and alcohol project... .

However, as they say on TV before risky stunts are shown: Don't try this at home! I have only tried it because my BPDbf has 3 years of therapy behind him and exhibits some ability to reflect and change. And, because it's my last chance to save our relationship.

What do you think the likely outcome will be?


Lifewriter x

[flourdust]

I could have written the first two paragraphs of your letter, word for word. Unfortunately, I'm married to my BPD and we have a child together, so simply going no contact isn't an option. Mine is also six months into DBT with no noticeable improvements in her relationship with me.

I would expect that your letter will be met with hostility, counter-accusations/projections, or just silence. It sounds like you know what you need to do, though, regardless of how he responds. Best of luck to you, and hope for peaceful times ahead.

[Mutt]

Hi Lifewriter,

I'm sorry to hear that . I think that's great that he went through a substance use program and DBT / schema therapy. The substance use is treated before BPD is treated. I think that it takes time to work through all of this.

You know him better than anyone on the boards and how he will react.

The reason I come back repeatedly is because I hope, beyond hope, that we can make it work and this time, you won't dysregulate or I will be able to handle it. I am proved wrong time and time again.

He said that it was the last chance in a previous email. It sounds like you're laying all of your cards in your response to him. A pwBPD can't sooth their emotions, that's a part of him. How do you feel about radical accepting him for who he is? I get the feeling that the frustration is realizing that things aren't changing.

[Lifewriter16]

Hi flourdust.

Thanks for replying. I walk past a wedding dress shop twice a day on the way to and from taking my daughter to school and stare wistfully at the dresses all the time knowing that I will not be marrying my BPDbf. I am so grateful that I discovered the full extent of his disability whilst I was still in a position to do something to prevent myself from having a life of misery with him. Last week, when he was still glowing with the joy of being back with me, he said he'd realised that this was for life. My reaction? HORROR. I couldn't bear that and I am inspired by people like yourself who do whatever you can to be loving to their spouses in spite of extreme provocation because there are children to be considered. It's a tricky road to travel.

Love Lifewriter

[babyducks]

Hi Lifewriter

It sounds like you put a lot of effort into your letter.  How are you hoping he will respond?

Ducks

[Lifewriter16]

Hi Mutt,

Yes, he asked me to be honest and he told me that after over a year of this (meaning all the troubles we've had), he's had enough and isn't going to do this again. So I have laid my cards out on the table as he asked, but he isn't going to like it.

Yes, I am frustrated that things are not changing, because I naively thought that therapy worked. We've recycled eight times now and I've allowed that because I believed that if the original trauma was addressed and healed, the BPD symptoms would fall away. That doesn't seem to be the case. It seems that he will always dysregulate and always be abusive whilst he's doing that. He called me a 'self-righteous b!tch' the other day. To me, there's no love in that, even though he can be so nice at other times. I've begun to question the whole basis of the relationship. Perhaps I need to do that to set myself free.

Love Lifewriter

[Lifewriter16]

Hi babyducks,

I'm hoping he'll realise what he's doing, say: 'Yes, there is a problem' and stop being abusive.

But, now I need to get down from cloud cuckoo land because he's not going to do that, is he? He couldn't hear me when I talked to him about saying sorry on Wednesday. I doubt he'll hear anything I've said today, he'll be so busy defending himself from the knowledge that he is abusive, that he'll project everything onto me.

Mutt seems to think he will never be able to self-soothe and I need to radically accept him as he is NOW which suggests that getting him into therapy is going to be a waste of time anyway.

So, I think the way forward is to go to very low contact rather than no contact. I'm going to take Skip's advice and try to bore him so he loses interest in me because I'm not supporting him and not responding to his taunts when he needs to release his anger. I'm going to be depressed, down, a bit miserable, say I don't really feel like going out and I'm not going to ask him how he is or show any interest in his life. I'm going to hide the kind and supportive me and ham up the latent depressive even when I feel fine.

I'm not quite sure how I'll deal with the torrent of abuse that's going to hit me tonight or tomorrow though. I want to avoid it by just turning off my phone, but he gets really triggered when anyone ignores his texts. Quite frankly, I don't have any hope of this turning out well, but at least I've told him how it is and given him the opportunity to make changes if he's able to. At least I will be sure that there was no happy ending with him which should give me peace for moving on.

What's the best way to deal with abuse by text or email do you think?

Lifewriter x

[Mutt]

Hi Mutt,

Yes, he asked me to be honest and he told me that after over a year of this (meaning all the troubles we've had), he's had enough and isn't going to do this again. So I have laid my cards out on the table as he asked, but he isn't going to like it.

Yes, I am frustrated that things are not changing, because I naively thought that therapy worked. We've recycled eight times now and I've allowed that because I believed that if the original trauma was addressed and healed, the BPD symptoms would fall away. That doesn't seem to be the case. It seems that he will always dysregulate and always be abusive whilst he's doing that. He called me a 'self-righteous b!tch' the other day. To me, there's no love in that, even though he can be so nice at other times. I've begun to question the whole basis of the relationship. Perhaps I need to do that to set myself free.

Love Lifewriter

Lifewriter,

I feel frustrated at times too with my ex wife and her black and white thinking because there's no middle-ground. When I say radical acceptance we don't know how things will play out and he may very well recover.

I notice "punitive parent" a maladaptive schema mode. My ex wife often projects and blames me because of how she feels about herself with flaws and imperfections, she has a critical inner voice and is very difficult on herself and I think that she projects that inner voice on others. I think that life is soft and flexible and I can only imagine how much stress that would feel like with how rigid she is on herself.

I do have boundaries with name calling and I have told her that I won't accept being called names and I won't respond. My situation is different than yours because I mostly talk to her by email and she has knocked it off with name calling and she may do it again and I'll have to re-enforce that boundary with her. The staying board can help you with boundaries.

I understand questioning ourselves and examining what we need in relationships. I had to change to have a relationship with my ex wife that is friendly. I did it because of the love that I have for my kids and I wanted the best quality of life that they can have when their mother suffers from mental illness. I think that there are many solutions to problems in life and sometimes we are only left with one solution but in order for me to make things work I had to be the one to change.

[babyducks]

Hi Lifewriter

I think at some level,  perhaps rudimentary,  he knows his relationships aren't typical and his responses are unusual.    That is what is triggering the maladaptive coping traits.   His unstable sense of self is being rattled.  For pwBPD,  making a mistake can invalidate their feelings so strongly that they feel they don't have the right to exist.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if fixing BPD was like fixing a broken leg?   Xray, cast,  physical therapy and boom you are good to go?    What I have noticed is that even with therapy. self soothing can be difficult for my partner just as I, even with therapy aren't very  good at self validation.    :)oesn't come naturally to me.

I find being stuck in tit for tat argument,  my fault her fault exhausting and counter productive.    Both of us end up hurt and frustrated.    I made the choice to stop participating in those type of conversations.    it wasnt good for either of us.

I suspect he will respond strongly to your email.   I probably would and I am not disordered.  If you feel it's in your  best interest to not continue this topic or this line of discussion,  I would suggest you prepare a response that is neutral and dials down the emotional temperature.    Perhaps something like,  I can't continue this discussion right now,  I am finding it too difficult.   It's a response but it doesn't add fuel to the fire.

Ducks

[flourdust]

Thank you for the kind words. I don't think I'm much of an inspiration. My marriage is failing -- she's in constant hair-trigger anger; I'm frustrated and detaching. I haven't taken any concrete actions yet other than reading, reflecting, and seeing a therapist to figure out what my next steps should be.

You sound very realistic and self-aware. I will only make one suggestion:

I'm not quite sure how I'll deal with the torrent of abuse that's going to hit me tonight or tomorrow though. I want to avoid it by just turning off my phone, but he gets really triggered when anyone ignores his texts. Quite frankly, I don't have any hope of this turning out well, but at least I've told him how it is and given him the opportunity to make changes if he's able to. At least I will be sure that there was no happy ending with him which should give me peace for moving on.

What's the best way to deal with abuse by text or email do you think?

I think you should go ahead and turn off your phone. Let him be triggered. Let him explode. Give yourself peace by not being part of it.

[Skip]

There is a lot of pain and loss in both of these letters.   :'(

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=286959.msg12703769#msg12703769

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?action=post;topic=287071

I'm sorry you are going through this at the holidays.

[Lifewriter16]

Here's an update (which just goes to show that pwBPD can surprise us)... .


My BPDxbf sent this email in response:

"Hi. I know my behaviour has been difficult. I find it almost impossible to accept love of any kind, and when I receive it, it creates an inner conflict that manifests as outward anger. This anger is directed at you because you love me. I am doing what i can to accept the love I am given."


The next day, he asked me what exactly I want from him. I said I wasn't sure but wanted to sit with it for a while and see what emerged. I asked him if he knew what he wanted from me.

I reflected and decided we should probably meet up and say 'goodbye' because we've never done that in person. So I texted him to ask if he wanted to meet up to talk about what we should do from here.

He agreed initially, but later sent a text saying he was happy to meet up for coffee but didn't see the point in talking about it again since it wasn't working. He said we just had to accept that it 'wasn't meant to be'.

I replied that if it was over, I'd rather not meet up for coffee, because it would be too difficult.


It was a very quick, quiet, peaceful end after 7 recycles over a 9 month period.


When I got home I found that he'd sent me a final email which said:

"Hi. I'm sorry I had to end our relationship and I know its not what you'd hoped for, but it's for the best. We couldn't have gone on hurting each other the way we were, we'd have ended up hating each other.

When we met, things were very different for both of us... .Since then a lot has happened to both of us... .We're different people in different lives. We're not the two people we fell in love with all that time ago.

What I'm really trying to say is that neither of us is to blame for it not working. It's not the fault of my BPD or your AS. We've grown as people and grown apart.

That doesn't make it any less sad or painful, but it does mean we can both move on with our lives and find people who are right for us and the lives we're building... .All the best. BPDxbf"



There's part of me that wants to fight over the fact he didn't apologise for his behaviour, didn't take responsibility for any of the drama but I chose a better route and sent him this:

"Thank you for everything you've given me.

Thank you for everything you've taught me.

I truly hope you will find a love that works for you.

I wish you every happiness for the future.

With love and a sad, but final goodbye, L xxx"



So, now it's time to complete the grieving process. I realised today, that the prospect of meeting someone new and healthier now holds more appeal that the prospect of remaining with my BPDxbf.

The relationship has ended at Christmas, which is unfortunate, but the New Year is just around the corner with all the possibilities that it will bring. I'm sad, but philosophical.

Love Lifewriter

[flourdust]

So, now it's time to complete the grieving process. I realised today, that the prospect of meeting someone new and healthier now holds more appeal that the prospect of remaining with my BPDxbf.

Bravo. Here's to a peaceful New Year's and a healthier 2016.

[cloudten]

My Dear Lifewriter,

I am so sorry that you have had these experiences recently. I know how painful they are- and I know the pain to come.  It won't be easy, but it will be for the best in the long run. You aren't a "bad person" for wanting a healthy relationship, which is something your x is not capable of giving you. You deserve the very best.

That being said- his last response sort of makes me angry. It is actually word for word the same thing my BPDx wrote me in a letter last february- before our big whiter-than-white recycle. We were "growing but not together"... .whatever that means.  Sorry- I don't buy it. Yes we all make mistakes in relationships, but I would say majority was his fault and the BPD.

I think you need to remember that this is not your fault. You are really not to blame. I know how hard you have worked. Please do not let yourself become stuck in your recovery by thinking about the "what ifs" and "if onlys".  Nothing you could have done would have changed this outcome. If you believe you can go back and change something for a different outcome- you will be stuck.

At least, it seems, you may have some closure now. How are you feeling? You have had a lot of bigger changes in your life lately, and I hope you are taking good care of yourself through this.

Reading what you wrote to him breaks my heart. I think you were really honest... .and I hope you can believe your own words. You do deserve the best.

 

cloud

[Lifewriter16]

Hi cloudten,

Thank you for your continued support. I feel very, very sad.

My BPDxbf doesn't want to acknowledge that BPD is still a problem. He wants to believe he no longer meets the criteria and that he just has the 'odd slip' (his words). I can understand his denial, but it makes my position untenable given his abusive behaviour. I don't want to end up in your situation. He may feel 'safe' with me, but I certainly do not feel safe with him. I feel anxious in anticipation of his dysregulations and afraid of what he may be capable of doing if he loses control (he once brandished a knife at his wife). Given the ever deepening level of the issues that he is dealing with, it seems more and more likely that he will lose control completely at some point. I don't want to be around when that happens. If he won't even acknowledge the problem, it's much more likely. I don't think it's worth risking my life over. Having said that, he has referred himself to a project for men who want to 'reduce anger and violent emotions', so there are signs that he could get there in the end, just not with me.

I do feel I have more closure now. The violence and abuse is an issue, a deal-breaking issue. Now I know there's no way he'll take responsibility for it, it feels easier to move on. He called me a 'self-righteous b!tch' this weekend. I know it's not true, I just don't want to be with someone who behaves like that. When I pointed out what he had done, he just said 'crime of the century' with no apology. I don't want that kind of man. He even told me he was 'feigning' compliance which suggests a wilful manipulation. I don't want that in a man.

Last time I saw him, we talked through the boundary issue of me refusing to apologise for hurt he feels if I do not feel I have been responsible for it. The conversation that brought that up was me telling him that I was frightened of what he could be capable of, and asking if we could talk through the issue of domestic violence when he got home. We did talk about it a little bit, but he was terribly upset that I wouldn't apologise for the upset that I'd caused him by mentioning it. He dysregulated big time after he went home and it's been downhill since then. The day of that conversation, I looked into my BPDbf's eyes and where I used to feel love for him, I felt pain, pure unadulterated pain. I don't want to spend my life like this. However, it is difficult to stop myself from taking the blame. I have to give myself a good shake whenever I start thinking that if I'd only done X, then everything would be okay. It's far too easy to take the blame when my BPDxbf spent so much time telling me that it was. It's going to take concerted effort to avoid falling into that trap.

Thanks again,

Lifewriter xx

[cloudten]

 :'( I am very very sad for you too.    I know all too well that pure unadulterated pain. It doesn't go away anytime soon, I'm afraid. You have grown so much... .and that is what you need to cling to and focus on.

Please don't end up in my situation. PLEASE. please please please. please. You can't see the tears on my face as I type, but I am begging you to please listen to your gut. If you are scared with him, that will never ever change. You will forever be scared of him. Listen to yourself. Trust yourself.

He isn't worth risking your life over. This was something I struggled with, until I nearly lost my life. I knew I was risking my life on the chance "it would never happen to me".  The closer we became, the worse he became. These aren't isolated incidents. It will get worse the more frustrated you both become.

You are not a "self-righteous b*tch". You are loving yourself. You are protecting yourself. You are standing up for yourself. You are making the right decision for you.  You are the only person who is looking out for you.  If that makes you a "self-righteous b*tch"... .so be it! At least you are an ALIVE "self-righteous b*tch"! 

In my opinion, his words are wrong. He is speaking from a place of hurt- you are not to believe him. Hurt people hurt people. Don't let him hurt you anymore. I know his words hurt, but they simply are untrue. His opinion doesn't matter anymore. His words are not reality. Reality is you are saving yourself from a very abusive, potentially lethal relationship. Put his words out of your head. You are loving yourself... .and THAT, my dear, is not narcissistic. Repeat after me: I love myself. Say it over and over again until you believe it.

I wish I could hug you right now and tell you it is all going to be okay.   It is all going to be okay. 

You sound so strong- you really do. If anyone can do this, I know you can.

It is okay to be sad. It is sad. It is okay to be angry. It is okay to be happy you are done with his mess. The further away you get from his mess, the better you will feel, I promise. Whatever emotions you have bubble up, its okay. It's normal. It's part of the grieving process.

Love you! We are all here and with you.

[Lifewriter16]

Hello again, cloudten.

When I read your last post yesterday night, I kept saying to myself 'My situation isn't that bad, he's never been violent towards me'. However, as soon as I'd closed down the computer, I remembered that you had a warning sign before that terrible weekend away happened and then it dawned on me: I've had a warning sign too.

We were walking through our local town centre, when, out of the blue, my BPDxbf said: 'I've just seen you with multiple stab wounds and your head cut off'. It alarmed me profusely that he could even have such an image in his head. I asked him about it later that day. He couldn't explain why he'd said what he'd said, I'm not even sure he knew that he'd had it or said what he'd said. He appeared only vaguely aware of it happening.

I'm posting this because I need to be accountable to myself and quit the denial.

If it's not too upsetting to answer, I was wondering if you would be willing to share whether there had been previous violence between yourselves, had he mentioned violence in previous relationships and what other signs there were that violence could be a possibility? PM me if you'd prefer.

Thanks

Lifewriter x

[cloudten]

I don't mind at all. The more I talk about it, the better it is for me- so I don't go back. I still worry that I will go back... .it is an addiction. By writing this for everyone, it is accountability for me too! Maybe it will help someone... .maybe there can be good to come from what I went through... .the silver lining in my cloud.

Please don't convince yourself that your situation isn't that bad- your situation IS that bad... .it just didn't happen yet.

My ex said many similar things about stab wounds and punching me or otherwise hurting me.

I remembered one just yesterday about him telling me that if I got pregnant he would throw me down the stairs.

Once while we were cooking in the kitchen together, seemingly happy, he came up behind me and held a knife to my throat and said "What would you do if I slit your throat right now?"  I laughed it off... .put the knife down, and we went on cooking. I was very freaked out- but didn't say anything about it to him until this last summer. He has no recollection and completely dissociated.

Laying in bed this last summer, my alarm had gone off to wake up. He rolled over, looked me in the eye, seemingly awake, and I thought lovingly to say goodmorning. He raised his fist above my face and said "I am going to stab you 32 times in the face."  That jolted me awake. I didn't say a word or move. He then started making a stabbing motion with his fist and said "I am going to stab you 32 times in the face."  I lowered his arm and pushed him back over onto his side of the bed. I said "i'm going to work"... .and I left. Being a summer day, the window was open. As I was getting in my car, he yelled out the second story window, standing there, "Have a nice day!"... .not in a friendly voice.  Several days later after making several comments about him stabbing me in the face (I was a little bitter), he asked what on earth I was talking about. I told him exactly what I told you. He didn't remember any of it... .he doesn't remember getting out of bed to yell at me out the window. It freaked him out that he didn't remember, and he went to his therapist the following day. He said that his morning that day was that he woke up and I had already gone to work. He cried and appeared to feel awful... .but never apologized.

I know via his employee that he doesn't remember anything of the incident that nearly took my life.

There were so many more incidents... .but these are the stand out ones in my eyes. I saw him threaten to stab people at parties, he threatened to punch me in the face in the shower. But there was clearly a preoccupation with stabbing people, stabbing me.  He did threaten to set my daughter and I on fire if I ever told anyone the horrible things he did as a drug dealer.  (He told me he set people's cars on fire and "curb stomped" a kid. I am not going to tell you what that is but I hope the kid survived if its true.)

Yes, he mentioned violence in one previous relationship. His other most serious relationship, she accused him of hitting her and abusing her- tying her up and raping her. Now, they were both hard drug addicts. I have never talked to her myself, so everything I know came from him... .I don't know whether there is any truth to it. He said she accused him of abuse and told her parents that he abused her. Toward the end, I asked him about this. He said that all of the 'incidents' she referred to, there were always other people there and that it never happened and were all false accusations. I think there is probably truth to her accusations after living what I lived.

Flip side of the coin- I did speak to the girl he had a love triangle (with me). I asked her if he ever threatened her life or to hurt her. She said no.   My thought on this is that he didn't really like her. I think the more he loves someone, the more violent he becomes.

One of my real life friends is also divorcing a pwBPD, and he threatened to stab her on multiple occasions too.

I suppose the last thing I want to say here is that he always told me, outright, that he had a very dark side- darker than he has ever let on. In the end, in our last texts, he said "I have always been forthcoming with you. I always told you I had a very dark side." I responded that I never believed him. He said "You never believed me?" and I said "No, because you seemed so wonderful and incapable of becoming the monster you finally showed yourself to be."

I feel this is true... .how could someone so wonderful be capable of becoming so awful?

It makes me wonder what his nightmares were like... .if he imagined me decapitated or burned to death. probably. it's sick and sad... .and makes me want to run far away.

Yes, I ignored many red flags. I simply thought he wasn't actually capable of being a monster.

There is that saying: "when someone shows you who they are, believe them."  I finally believe.

[cloudten]

I think you may start to realize, as you live your life in peace away from him, that you will start to remember events and words that you repressed in order to protect yourself.

[Lifewriter16]

Thanks for your response, cloudten. I understand the addiction and how much of a struggle you must be having to stay away because of the price of going back. I am thinking of you.

You describe some awful situations. Your post seems to suggest that your BPDx dissociates. My BPDxbf has told me on a number of occasions that he thinks he has traits of antisocial personality disorder, but he wouldn't ever tell me which ones he thinks he has. He's clearly BPD though.

I wonder if the inability to believe the someone is capable of the worst of behaviours is a kind of positive projection - we can only imagine other people doing the things that we can imagine ourselves doing.

Love Lifewriter x

[flourdust]

That is horrible and scary, Cloudten.  

This is so true:

There is that saying: "when someone shows you who they are, believe them."  I finally believe.

My wife told me early and often that she was crazy. She said it with a smile, and I laughed with her and downplayed it. My mistake.

[cloudten]

That is horrible and scary, Cloudten.  

This is so true:

There is that saying: "when someone shows you who they are, believe them."  I finally believe.

My wife told me early and often that she was crazy. She said it with a smile, and I laughed with her and downplayed it. My mistake.

We survived! That's all that matters! We are stronger than what tried to kill us!  Thank you though- it was horrible and scary. I still think the scariest part is that I can see myself going back without a second thought. It is literally an addiction as bad as any other. I quit cold turkey. Now I have to stay away forever... .that's all.