How do you deal with disrespecting them?

[Cat Familiar]

Things in my relationship are much better. I'm able to see when he's starting to dysregulate and modify my behavior so it stops or slows it down to a manageable level. I feel like I'm learning not to be codependent, for the first time in my life.

And like yeeter said on a different thread, part of the process for me was detachment (hopefully with love, grieving of all that was, and will be lost (basically everything having to do with a healthy relationship), and then acceptance of reality as reality.

I sound harsh. Bitter. Sad.  But those aren't completely accurate.  I think 'indifferent' maybe is a good word.  In that I have accepted the reality for what it is.  I continue to work to make things better.  They may, or may not improve. That part is to a large degree out of my control.

Not that things aren't better.  They are a lot better overall. But some things are same old same old and have to be accepted as reality.  So adapt, move on with living life.  This includes sharing less, which has helped.  



I often wonder what happened to those intense feelings of love that I had for this man for the first few years of our relationship. Now I feel like I'm living with a stranger, a roommate instead of a husband. I know I'm largely responsible for pulling back on our romantic connection, but I seriously lost respect for him in so many ways: drinking excessively, being lazy, chronic complaining, hypochondria, irritability, selfishness... .I could go on, but what is the point?

Now I often think that if I had known all this about him in the beginning (as if that could have happened), I never would have gotten involved with him in the first place. On the other hand, he is a good person and occasionally fun and entertaining. I'm taking things day by day, but I wonder what's next.

How do you deal with these feelings about your SO?

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[bruceli]

I radically accept that she is never going to change and detach with love.

[teapay]

Somethings are better in my relationship.  Much is the same and somethings are worse.  Over the last decade it has been an ever morphing situation.  I feel more in control and equipped to deal with it, but it is still difficult because the W is only about a quarter functional.  Most of the responsibility and burden of the family falls on me and she is more a burden than a contributor or help.

I feel many of the same things you have described feeling about your H, including a deep loss of respect for her, as well as contempt, derision, disgust and bitterness.  I've run the BPD gambit with her.  I think what has effected me most psycologically has been the suicide attempts and continued suicidal ideation.  There is definitely bitterness involved here with her leaving me with 5 young kids to care for and raise, possibly losing them to the system.

Like others, I deal will my feelings by detaching from the relationship with her, focusing on my kids (providing, educating, ect), trying to stay productive and sharing what's going on with a T.  That kind of detachment and adjustment is not really a marriage relationship anymore, so I doubt it is sustainable or healthy and therefore probably won't last.  That's the natural course of things. I've started to look at it as a temporary state of affairs and once my kids are alittle older an more independent, ending it and moving on.  Staying beyond that is probably a waste of my life.

[Cat Familiar]

I radically accept that she is never going to change and detach with love.

That's easier said than done for me at this point. I think I've gotten to the place of giving up any hope for change.

I feel more in control and equipped to deal with it, but it is still difficult because the W is only about a quarter functional.  Most of the responsibility and burden of the family falls on me and she is more a burden than a contributor or help.

I feel many of the same things you have described feeling about your H, including a deep loss of respect for her, as well as contempt, derision, disgust and bitterness.  I've run the BPD gambit with her.

I'm loving the place I find myself in now--I feel so much freer of trying to control others or being codependent. I just wish that my husband could meet me there rather than being cranky and self-absorbed, but I realize that is a futile dream.

So I guess I'll just allow myself to feel the feelings I have: being judgmental, irritated, frustrated, annoyed and extremely disappointed. I'm not projecting them outward onto him. I do feel more like a caretaker than a partner however.

[Notwendy]

I think our feelings are our feelings and so the only way through them is -- through them. The thing about feelings is that they really don't last. They tend to happen and then they are over. We can be angry and want to scream and then, a while later calm down. I think that many of us were raised in families where feelings predominate- and also are "facts". If my mother was angry at me, well that was the end of the world. I took it to heart.

So, right now, there is loss of hope, anger, disappointment, and they are real for you. I have felt these things too. I think the only way through them is to acknowledge them and feel them.  Resentment is something different- and that is something to work on- I have done it in 12 step groups and it can also be done with a therapist. Resentments are about us, and it is good for us to let go of them. That isn't easy though and takes some work.

I do think it is realistic to let go of expecting someone else to change. That may or may not happen.

A marriage counselor- Dr. Gottman, warns about contempt though. If you feel it, you feel it, but be careful not to let contempt cause major damage to the relationship.

I think you have a key to the idea of not acting on negative emotions. Emotions are just emotions, but acting on them takes them into effect into a relationship. While emotions can lead to actions, the reverse happens to. There are many sources that say the kind of love that lasts in marriage is not a feeling but an action. We feel love when we act in loving ways towards someone else.

This is hard to do when we are hurt, angry, disappointed and all the other feelings that we have. It also doesn't mean that we should be doormats or always nice and accommodating or co-dependent. Sometimes that love is "tough love"- acting in the best interest of a person doesn't always feel good for them or for us. Not being co-dependent might be a different feeling of "love".

I question that early attraction, intense romantic feelings as I don't know if for me, that was "love" or some kind of co-dependent enmeshment. Sure, we all like to feel that, but I think even in great marriages, that feeling isn't as predominant as a long term more steady love. Instead of wishing I felt like that, I try to be aware of the different ways I can act and be loving, not only to my H, but to other people I care about.

[Cat Familiar]

I think our feelings are our feelings and so the only way through them is -- through them. The thing about feelings is that they really don't last. They tend to happen and then they are over. We can be angry and want to scream and then, a while later calm down. I think that many of us were raised in families where feelings predominate- and also are "facts". If my mother was angry at me, well that was the end of the world. I took it to heart.

So, right now, there is loss of hope, anger, disappointment, and they are real for you. I have felt these things too. I think the only way through them is to acknowledge them and feel them.  Resentment is something different- and that is something to work on- I have done it in 12 step groups and it can also be done with a therapist. Resentments are about us, and it is good for us to let go of them. That isn't easy though and takes some work.

Great post, Notwendy! I think that I'm just now realizing that all my life I've stuffed my feelings in order so accommodate to some outsized BPD personality who tended to rage at me and call me selfish if I didn't bend over backward to please them. But my husband isn't in this camp, other than being a pwBPD. So I think he's inadvertantly getting some of that stored up resentment.

I like Gottman's books. My T directed me to him and I understand how contempt destroys relationships. I don't want to go there. But sometimes I'm so discouraged and frustrated, I'm not sure where contempt begins... .

As discussed on another thread, Im not sure what mature love is. I really enjoyed the intense romantic feeling phase and that lasted a few years, but what I've got now? I'm not sure exactly what that is, other than a mutual positive regard, some of the time.

[Samuel S.]

Indeed, working through our feelings as nonBPDs in regards to our BPDs' actions and words is extremely difficult to work through and to overcome. What I struggle with as well is the hurt that I have felt by my BPDw's verbal abuse which my T has called unexcusable. My BPDw's is like an ocean wave hitting the shore. She sometimes comes in and is actually humane. Then, she returns to the ocean to become inhumane again. So, I struggle with this constant change which is totally uncalled for, seeing that I have only given her love, attention, and validation. So, besides trying to work through my different emotions about her, I am losing respect and trust for her. At the same time, there are some parts of her personality that are loving, thus wanting me to try to forgive her. Nevertheless, the more she is verbally abusive, the harder it becomes to live with her and to forgive her.

[Cat Familiar]

Indeed, working through our feelings as nonBPDs in regards to our BPDs' actions and words is extremely difficult to work through and to overcome. What I struggle with as well is the hurt that I have felt by my BPDw's verbal abuse which my T has called unexcusable... .Nevertheless, the more she is verbally abusive, the harder it becomes to live with her and to forgive her.

Yep. It's hard to forgive when they really don't change and try to do better. Or if you're presented with the same damn thing over and over.

Forgiveness is not my strong suit. I think it's because I've had a history of being a doormat. I'm definitely not that anymore, so I'm much less willing to overextend myself and forgive and forget.

[Samuel S.]

To top it all off, my BPDw has gone through different kinds of exercise and therapy. She has done well for herself, and I have done well for myself. Yet, she continually insists that I don't try hard enough. She however posted on Facebook just recently that we should not label others. So, go figure! Now, along with being verbally abusive when she is in a bad mood, she is continuously neglectful. She feels that she is superior to me. Mind you, I love, I support, I validate, I care, I provide her a lot of my financial backing and for her daughter. I have done all the right things. Even my T said that if you are married, you make time for the relationship. Otherwise, you are not married, and, otherwise, you are not in a relationship. That's why I am hurting, and that's why it is getting harder and harder to forgive her. I really am looking for an apartment that I can afford.

[teapay]

Difficulty to forgive, resentment, detachment, contempt seem to me a continum of natural and normal defense mechanisms manifesting in sick relationships.  Their movement is towards ending a situation that is harmful to the individual.  They are difficult to overcome once the start setting in because they are innately protective.  Forgiveness and reconciliation are the initial first aid which heal injuries that occur within relationships, so normal healthy relationships don't move further down the continum.  Once addressing issues concretely through reconciliation breakdown, forgiveness may start to falter and resentment sets in.  Resentment will lead to the others.  Relationships with BPDs have difficulty with that first aid step because the BPD is compromised and is unable to participate on a normal level. 

My W  began manifesting BPD traits soon after we married.  For many years there were strange behaviors.  Most problems involved odd and extreme anger and other unusual interpersonal conflicts, but she was generally functional.  While unpleasant and painful at times, I found it managable.  We still were able to somehow solve problems at least for awhile.  I'd say I started down the continum when she began to lose functionality and hasn't been able to turn it around. Both the quantity, but especially quality of her behavors and difficulties have been game changers for me the last few years.

[Notwendy]

Great topic!

My first thoughts about that "romantic love" is that it is an idealized state that doesn't last, for even the best of relationships. When we first had difficulties in the marriage, I read all kinds of books- looking for some sort of explanation, or ideas. I was puzzled. What I came across was a pattern that is prevalent in our modern dating system. People don't date honestly- they put their best foot forward with each other, choose each other according to how the other one "makes them feel", and get physically intimate quickly. I read about dating in other cultures and how it is different- in some- arranged matches by families who have already matched the basics- the couple share common backgrounds, cultures, religions, and then, a time where the couple talks before getting physical. Neither way is foolproof- and both can lead to good marriages, but in one, there is initial chemistry. In the other, I think it is chemistry that builds as the relationship gets deeper.

We dated like modern couples. In the books I read, this state of romance is probably bound to end, being that it is a state where two people are a blank slate to each other. Some idealization is happening, and I can imagine that it is all the more in a relationship with someone with BPD. As time goes on, some people assume that if this feeling is gone, the relationship is over or not working. They may separate at this time, but they will likely find the same pattern with someone else. Couples who are aware of this pattern can then work on building a long lasting love- and some happy couples were doing this at the get go, and also working at keeping sexual interest in the marriage. The books that I read showed a better marriage building over time for couples who could stay together and work on it.

The first initial feelings are effortless. After that, I think we have to make an effort to build a relationship.

So, Cat, yes that romance is nice, but if it diminishes, then that doesn't mean something is wrong. Probably the harder part for someone in a BPD relationship is that the SO may also be devaluing us, painting us black at this time. I don't think many of us would choose to have arranged marriages ( unless we are in a culture that does that) but- for those who are dating now, it may help to incorporate some of the ideas- talk more, be physical less, and to date more honestly.

For me, in a committed relationship, it came down to doing some hard work. I learned from the books, that what attracts me to people is about me. The most likely outcome if my marriage were to end was that, I would find myself in the same pattern with another person- and I would have gone through the trauma of breaking up my family. In some cases, this is the better outcome- if there was physical abuse, danger to the children- but there was none of that. This issues were between us- and I was a part of that.

It was easier to let go of any wish for that "romantic feeling" at the beginning of a relationship when I saw it as an illusion, and also most likely to lead me to a relationship that resembled my FOO.  Better to do some work on me.

[Cat Familiar]

She however posted on Facebook just recently that we should not label others. So, go figure! Now, along with being verbally abusive when she is in a bad mood, she is continuously neglectful. She feels that she is superior to me.

Samuel, your situation is quite a bit more difficult than mine, however I see some similarities. My husband studies Buddhism and combined with him thinking of himself as a scholar (with his Ivy League education), he will occasionally act superior and make snarky comments.

On the other hand, I'm no dummy. I went to grad school and got top grades at university. My abilities are more grounded in the material world. I can fix things, make things, do things. So I sense that superiority is just compensation for his inability to do and understand what I'm able to do--and a good excuse to be lazy so he doesn't have to work hard physically.

Difficulty to forgive, resentment, detachment, contempt seem to me a continum of natural and normal defense mechanisms manifesting in sick relationships.  Their movement is towards ending a situation that is harmful to the individual.  They are difficult to overcome once the start setting in because they are innately protective.  Forgiveness and reconciliation are the initial first aid which heal injuries that occur within relationships, so normal healthy relationships don't move further down the continum.  Once addressing issues concretely through reconciliation breakdown, forgiveness may start to falter and resentment sets in.  Resentment will lead to the others.  Relationships with BPDs have difficulty with that first aid step because the BPD is compromised and is unable to participate on a normal level.

Yes, I too was blindsided by my husband's odd behaviors. In his case, he didn't manifest the really whacko BPDish stuff until many years after we got married. It totally took me by surprise because he seemed so normal, other than relying upon alcohol and prescription drugs. I excused that due to numerous factors: an ugly divorce, moving to a new area, a very stressful job. It wasn't until he retired, his NPD father passed away and he inherited a lot of money that the real BPD came to the surface.

My first thoughts about that "romantic love" is that it is an idealized state that doesn't last, for even the best of relationships... .People don't date honestly- they put their best foot forward with each other, choose each other according to how the other one "makes them feel", and get physically intimate quickly... .this state of romance is probably bound to end, being that it is a state where two people are a blank slate to each other. Some idealization is happening, and I can imagine that it is all the more in a relationship with someone with BPD. As time goes on, some people assume that if this feeling is gone, the relationship is over or not working. They may separate at this time, but they will likely find the same pattern with someone else... .The first initial feelings are effortless. After that, I think we have to make an effort to build a relationship.

Truer words were never spoken. I wish our culture would embrace this concept, rather than continuing to endorse the fairy tale concept of "true love". And I totally agree with you about working on oneself and freeing ourselves from the programming we received in our FOO. I suppose some people have had great role models in their FOO--I've met one or two in my life. But most of us need to heal from the disastrous lessons we've learned from parents who are dysfunctional. 

I continually learn from the contributions of members on this site. Added to that, doing therapy has been a blessing. I feel much stronger and healthier emotionally than ever before.

Last night, out of nowhere, my husband hugged me and apologized for "not being as nice as I should be to you."

I said nothing. (This is a very different response for me. In the past I would have said too much.) I appreciate the sentiment, but I wonder if he's had any new self awareness (he is doing therapy) or if it's just empty words. Anyway it was nice to hear but I didn't make much of it.

[Notwendy]

Yes, it is great when something wonderful shows up, and it is hard to not be a bit skeptical when it does. Unfortunately for my H, I'm conditioned to this with my mother. When she does something nice, I think " what is she up to?". This isn't fair to the person doing something nice, but it is a habit from childhood when dealing with her unpredictable behavior.

The other day, I had to run an errand that didn't involve my H or the family. I was telling him I was going out to do this. Out of the blue, my H said " I'll go do it". Now, this is a man who at one time would have pitched a fit if I asked him to do the dishes, and I would not have even considered asking him to do an errand that didn't involve us in some way. Over the years, I learned not to ask him to do anything that I could do by myself. So, this really came out of the blue and I was appreciative and also surprised.

One thing that helps with disrespect is that we tend to be bothered by traits in other people that we have ourselves. So when I look at someone with a critical view, I ask - does this apply to me in any way?" Of course we have to put this through our common sense filter. If someone is a criminal, I can be critical of that without thinking I am one. But personality traits that are irritating can make us reflect.

[Daniell85]

my pwBPD is not a respectful person. He respects who he feels is "powerful" and tends to bait and mock others. When he feels he is not respected, he becomes abusive.

For me to respect him... .I keep trying to separate the behavior from the basic fact that he is human, and every person is deserving of respect on that simple level.

I have had problems in terms of my actions, showing him a lot of outrage and I guess ( as he terms it) blaming him for what he has done. He is indeed responsible for his own actions. I guess I have a hard head, because it has taken me ages to detach when I feel I can't respect him and want to JADE at him over it.

I came to the conclusion that the less I say and the more I absent myself when he pushes my buttons, the better off I am. He ends up with me absent, there is no open conflict... and I get to retain respect for me for how I am handling myself. Which is actually more important to me at this point than how he is handling himself. That is his stuff.

Unfortunately at this time, we are at a stalemate, because I won't give my presence and interaction while he is disrespecting me.

[Cat Familiar]

The other day, I had to run an errand that didn't involve my H or the family. I was telling him I was going out to do this. Out of the blue, my H said " I'll go do it". Now, this is a man who at one time would have pitched a fit if I asked him to do the dishes, and I would not have even considered asking him to do an errand that didn't involve us in some way. Over the years, I learned not to ask him to do anything that I could do by myself. So, this really came out of the blue and I was appreciative and also surprised.

One thing that helps with disrespect is that we tend to be bothered by traits in other people that we have ourselves. So when I look at someone with a critical view, I ask - does this apply to me in any way?" Of course we have to put this through our common sense filter. If someone is a criminal, I can be critical of that without thinking I am one. But personality traits that are irritating can make us reflect.

It's difficult sometimes to separate out what exactly is my issue and what is his. I tend to be far more critical and judgmental than he is--or at least what he expresses outwardly. I typically don't say what's on my mind when I'm feeling critical towards him because that is a recipe for a dysregulation. It's frustrating to me because I want to be able to be open and honest and if there's an issue I have with someone, I want to be able to talk it out and arrive at a win/win solution where we both feel good and get what we want. This is not possible with him.

He gets upset at the slightest thing and assumes I'm being critical of him, and thereby I hate him. It's truly ridiculous what he gets upset about. For example: last night he went out to dinner with a friend and when he came home, I was in the bathtub. He sat on the floor and talked a bit about our friend (whose mother had recently died). As he talked, he peeled off a bandaid on his finger and I could see he was planning to toss it into the wastebasket. From where he was sitting, he couldn't see that I had a glass of wine on the floor, next to the wastebasket, so I picked up the wastebasket and held it out so he could put the bandaid in it and it wouldn't end up in my glass.

He refused, got a childlike expression on his face, held tight to the bandaid and told me I was criticizing him. I was floored. I told him that I was sorry he felt that way, but I was trying to help. Sometimes I just cannot even imagine the depths of the insanity. 

[Cat Familiar]

my pwBPD is not a respectful person. He respects who he feels is "powerful" and tends to bait and mock others. When he feels he is not respected, he becomes abusive... .I came to the conclusion that the less I say and the more I absent myself when he pushes my buttons, the better off I am. He ends up with me absent, there is no open conflict... and I get to retain respect for me for how I am handling myself. Which is actually more important to me at this point than how he is handling himself. That is his stuff.

I get this. My ex-husband was like that. He seemed to get power through hurting my feelings and destroying my self-esteem.

I utilize your strategy of being absent and avoiding conflict with my current husband, but then the gulf between us widens. It becomes questionable what kind of relationship we even have. But there is less conflict.

[Daniell85]

Cat,

Right now, I literally don't know what else to do. He is supposed to be my boyfriend. We have had so much conflict for so long, I am literally depleted from it. He has breeched my trust badly with the cheating, the terminated baby ( concealed from me until last month) and his ongoing refusal to take action to regain my trust. He continues to lie, conceal things, and still interacts with the woman he cheated on me with.

He himself has expressed to me that his resentment towards me ( for showing him the upset I have, the panic attacks, my eventual lashing out at him) is interfering with his willingness to take the steps to restore trust. He says he knows what to do, but he literally cannot force himself to do it because he is so angry with me.

I don't want to fight with him. He refuses to allow any discussion about anything, tells me to get over it so he can recover from what I did to him   and let's move on. He wants me to just let what he did go and just trust him. While he keeps breaking trust.

Not to rattle on, the short version is, I retreated because I don't see anything I can do right now that is going to lead to a good outcome for me.

[Cat Familiar]

He continues to lie, conceal things, and still interacts with the woman he cheated on me with.

He himself has expressed to me that his resentment towards me ( for showing him the upset I have, the panic attacks, my eventual lashing out at him) is interfering with his willingness to take the steps to restore trust. He says he knows what to do, but he literally cannot force himself to do it because he is so angry with me.

I don't want to fight with him. He refuses to allow any discussion about anything, tells me to get over it so he can recover from what I did to him   and let's move on. He wants me to just let what he did go and just trust him. While he keeps breaking trust.

Not to rattle on, the short version is, I retreated because I don't see anything I can do right now that is going to lead to a good outcome for me.

WOW, that is so like my ex-husband.    In his worldview, it was my fault that he had to cheat on me! I was supposed to forgive him, even though he continued to behave in ways that were completely incompatible with "marriage" and all he had to do was say "sorry" once and then it should be over--until he cheated with the next one, or continued with the one that he cheated with all throughout our marriage. Yuck.

I think you're doing what's best for you, by taking care of yourself and looking at this situation very carefully.   

[Cat Familiar]

One thing that helps with disrespect is that we tend to be bothered by traits in other people that we have ourselves. So when I look at someone with a critical view, I ask - does this apply to me in any way?" Of course we have to put this through our common sense filter. If someone is a criminal, I can be critical of that without thinking I am one. But personality traits that are irritating can make us reflect.

All day I've been thinking about this thought.

None of my friends would ever describe me as lazy, but, for me, I know it's possible that I could be more productive. I realize that I've felt taken for granted and that my husband values his time more than he does my time. And that feels really sh!tty.

To live in a home with another person, there are a lot of tasks that need to be done. Granted, people have different opinions on what must be done, but certain standards of cleanliness and tasks like food preparation are rather essential to life in a first world country. Like you, Notwendy, I don't ask my husband for help with the household, but he is retired and only pursues pastimes that entertain him.

It seems like our relationship has evolved into a parent/child relationship, where I do both the mother and father's role. I prepare food (but much less lately) and I fix things. My husband has a couple of tasks that he does which involve about 8 hours of work total in a month. Yet he will whine about it and postpone it as long as possible.

I was raised by hardworking parents who valued a job well done. Even though my mother was a pwBPD, she still worked hard. My husband was raised by parents who wanted to be the idle rich, and who achieved that goal a few years after he left home. So we're definitely not in the same class. I think some of my disrespect stems from him wanting to be cared for but not seeing that responsibility is a two way street.

[Cat Familiar]

For those of you who assume a caretaker role, how do you do that? I just don't know how someone could be willing to do that with a physically able-bodied spouse. I guess I'm unwilling to go any further in that direction for two reasons: 1. I took care of my BPD mother with dementia the last decade of her life and 2. With my husband, the more I do, the less he does.

I just get so frustrated when I do so much and then he gripes about replacing the things I can't fix (a wall heater that is starting to leak between the burn chamber and the heat exchanger). He does pay for these things, but in the meantime makes me feel like crap because things are always breaking. (Welcome to my world, I think--the real world where entropy is always a factor.) But in his BPD magical thinking fairyland world (do I sound bitter?) things should never break and it's a tragedy if they do.   

[Notwendy]

Cat- that trash can incident would have been similar for me. This used to seem to come out of the blue and upset me. Now I just get angry at something I say being twisted into a criticism which then results in him feeling justified at getting angry. Like Danielle- I disengage. I used to JADE which seemed to fuel the anger. Now there isn't an engaged person to get angry at. This has diminished these incidents.

I think retirement could be a challenge for both of us. My H has used the excuse of working to make everything else my job. He argues that if he does his job then it isn't fair if he does what is "my job". I do not expect this to change when he retires. I don't mind him pursuing hobbies in his free time. He does that now. His perception that things are unfair is a part of him. No matter what I do, that doesn't change.

Somehow though, I don't care as much and I think it is because I am doing more of what I want to do, not what I think I need to do to. There are the basic things that need to be done but doing more of my own interests helps.

[Cat Familiar]

Notwendy,

Retirement is interesting for a pwBPD. I was expecting things to get easier for my H because I assumed that so much of his stress was job-related, since he hated his job.

I also assumed that he would have less stress after his very abusive NPD father passed away and then he inherited a bunch of money.

Incorrect on both counts. Knowing what I know now about BPD, I think both of these issues precipitated identity crises and we know what a fragile grasp on identity a pwBPD has.

I can appreciate that you currently do what you want to do. However, you might start to feel differently when you continue to do the lion's share of work around the house and your retired husband just sits around, adding to your workload. It might be good to start training him now (if that's at all possible with a pwBPD) to assume more responsibility.

I sent a great birthday card to a friend a couple of years ago. It was called "The Husband Whisperer." As you know, I'm way involved with horses and I joke about "horse whisperers" with my friends. Well, the card had a drawing of the "Husband Whisperer" supporting and encouraging the Husband as he vacuumed, while the Wife in the background watched. I just loved that!

[Notwendy]

I would love to train him now. He has a demanding job, and so the "Job" is established as his reason for not doing more.

After retirement, the job won't be there to be a reason, but there will be another one. The point is- he is not going to do it, and I know it. He grew up in a home where his mother did everything and dad didn't touch a dirty dish, and his role model of being a man is like that. I think it is kind of pathetic that he feels his masculinity is threatened by doing the dishes.

It's not that I don't resent it, but I don't see a way around it and as long as he contributes in other ways, such as being the chief wage earner, I don't think I have much of an argument.

Kind of odd, because my mother doesn't do dishes either. When I lived at home, I did.