pwBPD to English translator

[Moselle]

"I loved you... .my way" : Translation - As long as you fulfilled my needs I tolerated you. As soon as you didn't fulfill my needs, I decided not to tolerate you.

"I'm the best thing that ever happened to you": Translation - Stay with me, I'm scared to lose you.

"No other woman will tolerate you": Translation - No other man will tolerate me.

"There's nothing wrong with me" Translation - Four years of therapy has identified BPD, NPD, obsessive disorder, impulse control disorder, eating disorder, GAD. They don't know what they're talking about. You are the crazy one.

"Thanks for taking the girls for the weekend. They had a great time". Translation - I am splitting you white for 3 hours this Monday.  Enjoy it, It will soon turn to hatred for a few weeks.

[once removed]

were our relationships with an inanimate object like alcohol?

it did not help me to detach more quickly to paint my ex black. i spent months trying.

only focusing on negative attributes is akin to painting black, yes, and i dont recommend it.  i wrote out "the list", and by god, what a turning point in my recovery. id be ashamed to share that list here. it might have been closer to the truth than her being on a pedestal, but i can promise you if it were that true i wouldnt have stayed. my head and my heart were not balanced and what i wrote at the time was an attempt at balancing them. i dont think thats a contradiction, but i will also not pretend with you that anger didnt feel better than pining for her or that i did not try to heal by painting her black. i wont pretend i didnt lie to myself a little in my process, and still come out on the other side, partly because ultimately i trusted myself. none of that is to say painting our exes black is healthy. let me put it this way: i clung to a lot of reconciliation fantasies too. sure they were very, very distantly feasible. were they healthy?

when we "translate" our partners words, are we really getting anywhere? are we really understanding where they were coming from or are we doing exactly what we did as romantic partners?

[enlighten me]

When I split from my ex wife I held out hope for reconciliation. I didn't think her capable of doing the things that I later found out she did. I wasn't aware of BPD and just thought she had fallen out of love with me and there was nothing more to it than that. As things came out it knocked me back to the start of my healing process.

With my exgf I decided to paint her black and think of the whole relationship as a scam. I believed the worst of her and when things came out it still knocked me back but nowhere near as far as with my ex wife.

It was a form of self protection and my healing process was probably cut in half.

Yes for me it worked and I see it as healthy in the fact that it protected me from further suffering. I do not see it as something that is healthy for me now. I see it as a tool that I used to speed up the process of detachment. It allowed me to get to a place where I could reflect on things and analyse my part in it. To see my flaws.

I see detachment as a process that has a path to be followed. You cant jump to the end and miss every other part or else you don't get the benefit of the journey. 

[burritoman]

With my exgf I decided to paint her black and think of the whole relationship as a scam.

Yes, this is exactly how I'm beginning to feel. All of the great memories I have from the past 3 years were fueled by a woman who would have treated me no differently had I completely disregarded myself and catered to her every word and treated her like the queen of queens. I might have bought an extra week, month, or five years with her, but it was doomed from the start, and I would have been left a shell of my real self and in much worse shape than I am now. It was all an illusion.

All of the stories I've read on this board, none of them are coming from an otherwise normal type of breakup - two people meet, fall in love, attraction or priorities change, one leaves, the other is heartbroken. These are relationships where the victim is abused, deceived, taken advantage of, and tossed into a rock tumbler and dumped on the sidewalk. How can you be a perfect partner to them when nothing is ever good enough? How can you live up to their unrealistic expectations? You love them and they leave, you treat them badly they leave. You cannot win.

Because of this, I personally feel that if you have to paint them black to move on, it's perfectly acceptable. If you can look back and laugh a bit at your relationship, you're one step closer to healing. I've looked back on some of the ridiculous things that were said to me or the horrendous words she chose to leave me with and just shaken my head and chuckled (it took me a month to get to that point).

I still love her. I don't hate her. I wish things were different. I wish she would call. I wish I had done this or said that during our relationship. Maybe I could have gotten just one more week with her. My last real memory of seeing her in person is tucking her in before bed because she asked me to, then kissing her on the cheek. I can hold onto that forever, but I also have to hold onto her saying to me only TWO WEEKS LATER over the phone that if I don't give her what she wants and break up with her she's going to make me miserable, and she'll cheat on me and tell me all about it. She couldn't even dignify me with a face to face after 3 years. I'm not perfect. I screwed up here or there, but I certainly didn't deserve to be left in that manner.

If you paint them black to heal then paint them white later, that's fine. That's what I'm beginning to do. But if you paint them black forever and remember them as a toxic stain on your skin that will scar you for life in some way, leave 'em black. Trust me, you're already the blackest black in their eyes because YOU ruined this relationship... .

[hashtag_loyal]

I think it is entirely possible to not hold any ill-will towards one's BPDex at all but still find the hidden humor in everything.  Laughing makes me feel better, so I do as much of it as I can.

[steve195915]

I think it is entirely possible to not hold any ill-will towards one's BPDex at all but still find the hidden humor in everything.  Laughing makes me feel better, so I do as much of it as I can.

I started this thread so that what we were all put through we would have an greater awareness of it and what our relationship was like, and to even find some humor in it.  It was not meant to create or hold any ill-will towards anyone's BPDex.  I don't even consider it painting them black.  These aren't attacks or exaggerations of the truth, these are real things that were said to us by our BPDex and their subsequent actions that weren't at all consistent with the words.  We all unfortunately had to live this.  I believe part of the healing process is to have an awareness of all we went through, so we can learn from it and make sure we never have to live it again, and also to give us more resolve from going back to our BPDex when in many cases we will hear from them again.  I related to many of the definitions listed in this thread and laughed at many of them when I remember how similar things were said and done in my relationship.  I wasn't laughing at my BPDex, I was laughing at how ridiculous the situation and the insanity I had to live in... .I was laughing at me! 

I still love my BPDex and I keep in contact regularly though I have no plans or any expectations to spend the my life with her.  To keep my resolve I never want to forget what our relationship was like with all the lies, cheating, verbal abuse, manipulation, intense anger, jealousy, ... .absolutely inhumane behaviors on her part.  I've let go of any anger towards her, yes she did evil things but it was due to her mental illness that she had no control over.  She can't even truly comprehend all that she did.  She's not capable of true love and can never find inner peace in her life.  Very sad life she has to live, but I know I can't be her savior.  I can't help her or fix her disorder and that's hard for me to admit that.  Walking away makes me feel terrible anguish however, I know going back will just be more of the same and I need to respect and love myself first.   

[ReluctantSurvivor]

"I hate you" - I hate myself and you no longer distract me from it.

"Everything is always about you" - Everything should always be about me, why aren't you stopping me from hating myself.

"I can't be with someone that doesn't make me happy" - You were just a distraction, just an object, and since you are no longer of use I will be throwing you away with the same callous disregard I give 30 marlboro butts a day.

I wouldn't consider most of this to be painting anyone black, they are black, they always have been and likely always will be.  The parts of them that were appealing were nearly all a mask, acts they put on to make people like them so that they can feed their sick black hole hearts.  I observed my dBPDex longer than I would recommend and saw an abhorrent person.  Pathological lies, no moral compass, serial cheating, fabricating a rape story that never happened and rolling with it for 9 months just to farm pity from people.  The sickest part is that this isn't even the first time she used this script, a life-time professional victim that always has something horrible in her life to pull in the next group of marks to give her attention.  This is only one case, perhaps others are different.  In the case of this sick puppy, there is a through and through psychopath that feels nothing (even uses a play on the word anhedonia as an online handle) and only finds fleeting escape from it by covertly manipulating and abusing others.  This specimen was formed out of a perfect storm of dysfunction, A violent schizophrenic father that married over 20 times and a cluster B mother that abandoned her before the ago of 3 and later in life drove another husband to suicide.

You don't need paint to make the night black.

[CollateralDamage]

"You don't know me" - You really don't know me, you only know my fake side that I made up

"You are the only thing I can't control" - I control everything and everyone, what is wrong with you

"NOBODY helps me I have to do everything myself" - You can't do anything right like me, so just shut up and I will take care of it, but I will also talk about it all being your fault"

"I know" - I know I have you and you will not go anywhere no matter what I do

"What is person xxx name?" - Need this to Facebook stalk him/her... .just mind you OWN business

"Sorry" - Sorry for what YOU are going through being with me, but I did nothing wrong.  In a few weeks I will be reframing the story so you will be wrong anyway.

"He is just a friend" - He is my potential replacement for you, so just look the other way

"I dont trust you" - I can't trust myself and it is much easier just projecting that on you ... ."sorry" 

"You scare me" - I scare myself so bad that I have to make you the monster. I, on the other hand, can tell people how crazy YOU are, just in case my masked slipped somewhere

"I have to go to sleep now, alone" - Whoops, your replacement just stopped by so I need to cheat while I know you are not here.

" I never cheated. We are not even in a committed relationship" - Even though I told you we were exclusive, that just meant YOU were, not me.  Don't hold me accountable because you can't understand my confusion.

"I need your help with something at work" - I need you to tell me how to seduce this new guy that could be your replacement. 

[Newton]

Humour played/plays a key role in my recovery... .I still enjoy a good giggle at my therapists comment (who met my ex on several occasions)... ."Newton... .you aren't settling for 2nd or 3rd choice here... .I've met her... .and I'm worried why she is a choice for you at all!".   

What concerns me about the objectives of this thread is that unless our partner has been diagnosed, with comorbidity and addictions ruled out... .the entire premise of 'translating' is an irrelevance, plus our recall of conversations cannot, logically, be objective... or necessarily accurate.

In addition, even if these criteria were met in order to satisfy the "pwBPD" part... .it's quite self-righteous to assume we could possibly know the internal cognition (or lack of) someone who has a totally unstable sense of self, a misguided version of 'reality' and is constantly reacting to FEAR with evasive manouvers... .

A good deal of the quotes listed above seem to indicate a scheming sociopathic/anti social manipulative dynamic... .not simply a pwBPD.  It would be all too easy for newer members to jump to misguided conclusions about their current/past experiences based on this.

The malestrom we endured says a lot about us, as well as them... .hence why the term 'non' can often disguise our 50% contribution.  Many of us here are significantly left brain biased and we attempted to think our way out of the mire... .using hindsight to try and establish motives for behaviour through words said by a very disturbed (often abused) person would appear to be similar to us attempting to deconstruct and 'work them out' during the relationship.

PwBPD can often mimic sentences of other members partners here as their cognitive impairement manifests as symptoms... .denial, rage, rejection, clinging, projection etc... .

Fundamentally, people with cluster B symptoms are predictably unpredictable and often don't back up words with behaviour... .this is our truth.     

[Moselle]

PwBPD can often mimic sentences of other members partners

Yes my experience is that they mimic others. And often repeat the same sentence/phrase over and over to somehow emphasise its truth or show that they now understand it. A bit like a child. Mine once told me she felt like a 4 year old that had never grown up. She's a very clever and manipulative 4 year old

[Newton]

Agreed Moselle ... .that combined with their 'mirroring' for acceptance or approval provides us with little stable sense of who they actually are... .Anyone who suggests to me now "oh I'm a little crazy... no one gets me... .but I love it"... .gets a very wide berth!

We were given a glimpse into their tortured existence... .then with our lack of insight, understandably, we got very angry, confused, upset that they couldn't just 'snap out of it'... .or 'see how things actually are'.  Their world is "feelings=facts"... .hence their word spagetthi!... .

I think it's important to question the 'manipulative' aspect of the condition... .I apppreciate we fulfilled a need for them, as do their back ups/bail outs... .Contextualising this behaviour as a survival mechanism rather than a planned scheme helped my anger and blame to diminish somewhat.  This doesn't extend to advocating how they act... .but merely appreciating as to why.

I struggle to see how someone who isn't in control of their dysregulating emotions/thoughts/behaviour can be culpable.  That doesn't mean we have to play... . 

[Sunfl0wer]

The reason I see painting black as healthy is that it helps us to detach quicker.

I just finished listening to the audiobook "Attached."  They do suggest reminding yourself of negative features of the person/relationship as a way to facilitate healthy detaching.

I wonder about this as it is in conflict to what I thought I learned here on this site.

I understand that painting another black is a primitive way to cope, however, maybe it has it's place in the detaching process?

[Skip]

I decided to make a post to translate the words spoken or actions of a pwBPD into what they really mean based on all our experiences.  Hopefully it will provide us with some humor and really reflect on how we were so mistreated and make our resolve stronger not to get sucked back in and to find peace in the knowledge we are better off without them.  Please feel free to add to the list or to add multiple definitions.  

*****************************************************************

pwBPD to English Translator:


1.  "I value our friendship" = "I value the attention you are giving me to meet my needs."

2.  "I am glad you are in my life" = "I am glad you are available to give me attention at my whim."

3.  "I need some time to figure things out for myself" = "I'm still working on finding your replacement so I want you to stay available in case I don't find anyone or it doesn't work out."

4.  Action: The silent treatment from the pwBPD = "How dare you want me to address some of your needs, now I will punish you with silence."

5. "I love you" = "You are currently meeting my needs so I will stay with you at this instant in time"

6a.  I don't trust you" = "I'm actively looking and have made contacts with your possible replacement so by thinking you may be doing the same thing it justifies what I'm doing and therefore I don't have any thoughts of doing anything wrong myself."

6b.  "I don't trust you" = "I was abandoned by my parent and/or also by others so I know you will do the same to me so any actions I do will be completely justified and all your fault."

*******************************************************************

Is this really humor? I'm going to challenge that.

Would this be a funny way to describes ourselves?



The Clueless Doormats

Are you laughing?

When we say "I am glad you are in my life" what is the one and only meaning of that sentence? I like having sex with you?

Seriously, is anyone cracking up right now?

Funny or cynical?  Balanced or biased?  Emotionally mature or the other word that begins with "I"?

There is no guideline violation here and no one is going to pull this thread... .everyone is free to add to the list. Have fun. 

But maybe take a minute and reflect in all of this... .for a group of people who often misread clear and obvious signs of relationship problems, what does it say when we mock our partner as if they speaking in Latin?

Does it really help us to understand people? Our ex's? Ourselves?  Prepare us fr the path ahead?

[Moselle]

I understand that painting another black is a primitive way to cope, however, maybe it has it's place in the detaching process?

Whatever it takes to detach has merit in my opinion. The end justifies the means in this case.

Detachment, NC, painting them black. Do what it takes to get rid of the toxicity.

Then begins the journey to health by confronting the core wounds that got us here in the first place. We can rebuild.

Does it really help us to understand people? Our ex's? Ourselves?  Prepare us fr the path ahead?

Understanding projection helped me understand that it wasn't all about me, but I think you are right, when we start to blame and obsess about the BPD side, we forget or rationalise away,  our very active part of the toxic relationship.

We then miss out on the opportunity to confront our core wounds

[Skip]

NC, painting them black. Calling their partner toxic. Blaming all on the other person?

Don't we we describe this "package" as the dysfunctional, weak, coping skills of a person with a mental illness?

[Newton]

Sunfl0wer... .I see where you are coming from.  All of these 'knowledges' whether books, research papers or the DSM are just theories... .written down and developed over time... .funded by interested parties.  As in every aspect of life I think we need to be discerning about the information source... as much as the information.

IMO painting someone black can be very useful in the immediacy, it's self preservation (at last!)... .perhaps deciding to self enforce a huge flashing sign saying "warning" to trigger ourselves to walk away from what we know we have been attracted to... .

Feelings of guilt about acting similarly to how they did are expected... .but those feelings surely need to be confronted with measured thoughts about our motives for doing so.  Here is where our 'knowledge' of their symptoms kick in... .and we can explain to ourselves why we are pursuing this path at the moment.  It's not a repeated pattern we have exhibited... .we have support of other rational people we trust as to why we need to behave this way right now... .it's temporary... .has it's place... .and will pass  

[Moselle]

Don't we we describe this "package" as the dyfunctional, weak, coping skills of a person with a mental illness?

Yes, I believe it does.

It also feels comfortable to describe ourselves as "non's". Because we can play the the victim of the Borderline and feel very smug.

Reality is that we have distorted perceptions too.

I had difficulty accepting that this person had black. I couldn't separate from her and kept going back. It took death threats for me to finally say I've had enough. So seeing and acknowledging the black had an important role in my detachment.

[steve195915]

Humour played/plays a key role in my recovery... .I still enjoy a good giggle at my therapists comment (who met my ex on several occasions)... ."Newton... .you aren't settling for 2nd or 3rd choice here... .I've met her... .and I'm worried why she is a choice for you at all!".   

What concerns me about the objectives of this thread is that unless our partner has been diagnosed, with comorbidity and addictions ruled out... .the entire premise of 'translating' is an irrelevance, plus our recall of conversations cannot, logically, be objective... or necessarily accurate.

In addition, even if these criteria were met in order to satisfy the "pwBPD" part... .it's quite self-righteous to assume we could possibly know the internal cognition (or lack of) someone who has a totally unstable sense of self, a misguided version of 'reality' and is constantly reacting to FEAR with evasive manouvers... .

A good deal of the quotes listed above seem to indicate a scheming sociopathic/anti social manipulative dynamic... .not simply a pwBPD.  It would be all too easy for newer members to jump to misguided conclusions about their current/past experiences based on this.

The malestrom we endured says a lot about us, as well as them... .hence why the term 'non' can often disguise our 50% contribution.  Many of us here are significantly left brain biased and we attempted to think our way out of the mire... .using hindsight to try and establish motives for behaviour through words said by a very disturbed (often abused) person would appear to be similar to us attempting to deconstruct and 'work them out' during the relationship.

PwBPD can often mimic sentences of other members partners here as their cognitive impairement manifests as symptoms... .denial, rage, rejection, clinging, projection etc... .

Fundamentally, people with cluster B symptoms are predictably unpredictable and often don't back up words with behaviour... .this is our truth.   

Newton there are some assumptions you made here that aren't accurate, definitely not in my thinking.  The translations are in no way meant as an attempt to portray what our BPDex was actually thinking when they said certain things.  They are just the facts, an accounting of our  relationship where things were said and the following actions that occurred that were completely inconsistent with those words.  They are 100% accurate as we had to live it!  To heal and move on I believe it's absolutely relevant to reflect and be honest with ourselves of the facts of the relationship and not try to diminish or suppress what really occurred.  

Even though the quotes may seem to indicate a calculating scheming sociopathic/anti social manipulative person, I doubt if there are many of us here actually believe that are BPDex were actually that even though our BPDex's behavior in words and actions would be consistent with it.  

Actually I believe it's quite the contrary.  If we believed our BPDex was purposely calculating in their words and resultant actions that were downright evil and our whole relationship was all a big lie and conspiracy just to hurt us, we would not be having any positive thoughts of them, missing them and sometimes feeling we want them back.  We would have never allowed ourselves to be recycled as we did.  I believe there's only a minority of us that feel a pwBPD are truly calculating evil people however, we can all agree that some of their resultant actions were vile.  

I doubt if anyone will ever know what actually goes on in the minds of a pwBPD.  Even the so-called experts don't agree.  For instance I researched whether a pwBPD can actually feel love and found many conflicting answers. All we do know is their behaviors are not consistent with their words.

[Skip]

There are aspects of grieving and detaching (bargaining, anger, depression, acceptance) that are healthy and aspects that are broken, weak, debilitating.

The reason I see painting black as healthy is that it helps us to detach quicker.

I just finished listening to the audiobook "Attached."  They do suggest reminding yourself of negative features of the person/relationship as a way to facilitate healthy detaching.

"Reminding yourself of negative features of the person/relationship as a way to facilitate healthy detaching" is a important thing to do. When we lose someone, we are often hyper-focused on what we liked and lost (she was drop dead gorgeous) and don't counter-balance that with the problems that lead to the relationship breakdown (she does not have the maturity to create a stable home).

This is healthy.

Painting someone black... .that doesn't go very far and prolongs the detachment.  Why?  Because we ultimately know that it is not true and we end up bouncing back and forth between she was gorgeous and she was a monster and don't really deal with our true feelings of loss - we get hung up in these disconnected polar opposite extremes.

[Skip]

The translations are in no way meant as an attempt to portray what our BPDex was actually thinking when they said certain things.  They are just the facts, an accounting of our relationship where things were said and the following actions that occurred that were completely inconsistent with those words.  They are 100% accurate as we had to live it!  To heal and move on I believe it's absolutely relevant to reflect and be honest with ourselves of the facts of the relationship and not try to diminish or suppress what really occurred.  

Facts? 100% All of us?

Steve, when we (members) say: When we say "I am glad you are in my life" what is the one and only meaning of that sentence?

What do we mean? Certainly, if we understand pwBPD s well,  we would even better know the facts, 100% true, for all of us?

Fundamentally, people with cluster B symptoms are predictably unpredictable and often at times don't back up words with behaviour... .  

Is this a better characterization?

pwBPD impulse disorders say many things in the moment that we can grab onto as forever commitments - its a huge source of misunderstandings and breakdowns and hurt feelings.

pwBPD often back themselves into corners and between the shame and weakness, can't face their own bad acts and will try to cope by making them go away (projection, lying, etc).  Remember Bill Clinton "I did not have sex with that women" - sometimes people can't face their bad acts and try to make them go away (not saying Mr. Clinton is mentally ill, BTW). Some people have a high threshold before going into this mode (like Mr. Clinton). Others have low thresholds.

[C.Stein]

When we say "I am glad you are in my life" what is the one and only meaning of that sentence?

For myself that means I value her as friend and companion and her presence enriches my life.

[Newton]

steve195915 I appreciate the response... .... .my assumptions and responses were made with the info I was provided with... .the title of your post (the word 'translator' carries a heavy, accurate responsibility which I don't think you or others have consistently understood with facts or words), plus apparent attempts to ignore/sidestep my posts (I appreciate the time zone of me being in the UK is awkward)... .and then a request from you with multiple exclamation marks instructing the board what you actually required (needed) as suitable response.  

In my understanding... that's not how this place works, and challenges to your current thought patterns will hopefully be as helpful as validation when it's obvious you are helping yourself.  I'm on your side! (and ethically/morally your ex's too!)... .If you and I are agreed that the 'pros' are making educated suppositions about our exs ... .then so are we, with significantly reduced knowledge... .and yet I totally get your sentiment of "wait up a minute!... .we were there!... .we lived this!... .you haven't seen what I've seen!... .

I see the opposite of what you are suggesting now,  in the thread... .people attempting to know exactly the motives behind words... .not just the behaviour that was exhibited... .this is my point of contention.

I'm confused... .If you don't believe our partners were in control of their mental faculties... .why allude to the fact they followed this cognitive path so menancingly?... .and encourage others to contribute in support?... .

[Sunfl0wer]

I often feel that my anger at another is simply a projection of anger at myself.

So at times I have found myself angry at my ex, when looking inward, I could see that what I was really expressing was frustration at myself for not knowing what I didn't know and not wanting to forget what I learned.

I wonder if this thread, and OP is a way for understanding something about the self, yet this is just the first step of getting there and it just needs to exist for the sake of existing for some purpose?

Maybe it serves as a reminder that we do not always have the same reality as another?

Knowing that our reality differs from another, and reminding ourselves to look for this can help us make sense of when we are confused that our behaviors have a confusing impact on others, and we are confused by the behaviors of others.

The differing realities that my ex partner and I worked with caused a great psychological regression in me in many ways.  I am sure I regressed to more primitive coping mechanisms as that is where I was at.  When I got to a better place, my coping mechanisms evolved... .yet certainly are never perfect.  However, I was doing my best at coping... .I can only do my best... .I can only hear what I am capable of hearing at any given moment.  My capacity is limited and that capacity changes.

[Newton]

Skip... .I'm attempting to express my knowledge so far of personality disorder traits... .I spend far too much time concerned over my own 'correct' sentence structure, taxonomy, being perfect blah... .i'm interested in why you think exclusion of the word 'often' is important for clarification... .In my experience they are mostly, consistently like this... .I was holding back... .and I'm here to learn

perhaps pm me if this post is classed as a self indulgent hijack 

[steve195915]

The translations are in no way meant as an attempt to portray what our BPDex was actually thinking when they said certain things.  They are just the facts, an accounting of our relationship where things were said and the following actions that occurred that were completely inconsistent with those words.  They are 100% accurate as we had to live it!  To heal and move on I believe it's absolutely relevant to reflect and be honest with ourselves of the facts of the relationship and not try to diminish or suppress what really occurred.  

Facts? 100% All of us?

Steve, when we (members) say: When we say "I am glad you are in my life" what is the one and only meaning of that sentence?

What do we mean? Certainly, if we understand pwBPD s well,  we would even better know the facts, 100% true, for all of us?

Fundamentally, people with cluster B symptoms are predictably unpredictable and often at times don't back up words with behaviour... .  

Is this a better characterization?

pwBPD impulse disorders say many things in the moment that we can grab onto as forever commitments - its a huge source of misunderstandings and breakdowns and hurt feelings.

pwBPD often back themselves into corners and between the shame and weakness, can't face their own bad acts and will try to cope by making them go away (projection, lying, etc).  Remember Bill Clinton "I did not have sex with that women" - sometimes people can't face their bad acts and try to make them go away (not saying Mr. Clinton is mentally ill, BTW). Some people have a high threshold before going into this mode (like Mr. Clinton). Others have low thresholds.

Skip when I referenced facts, they were just exactly that.  Per your example if we are told "I am glad you are in my life", the indisputable fact is that those words were what was said.  If the next day their actions were to remove you from their life, then again those particular actions are facts!  Are you trying to imply we are misrepresenting the truth and those things didn't occur?

I never said we can read a pwBPD mind or anyone elses and to know the exact meaning of everything said.  Of course words can mean different things to different people however, it is clear that with pwBPD, the words often are not backed up with their behavior. 

[Skip]

If the next day their actions were to remove you from their life, then again those particular actions are facts!  Are you trying to imply we are misrepresenting the truth and those things didn't occur?

Is that what you got out of my comments?

Skip... .I'm attempting to express my knowledge so far of personality disorder traits... .I spend far too much time concerned over my own 'correct' sentence structure, taxonomy, being perfect blah... .i'm interested in why you think exclusion of the word 'often' is important for clarification... .In my experience they are mostly, consistently like this... .I was holding back... .and I'm here to learn

perhaps pm me if this post is classed as a self indulgent hijack 

My tweak (minor) is only on how often this behavior manifests. I suspect that if we saw these occurrences 51% -99% of the time, we would feel the person is pretty predictable.  It's when these thing occur 5%-10% of the time that we get blindsided.

Fundamentally, people with cluster B symptoms are predictably unpredictable and ______ don't back up words with behaviour... .   

1. always (100%)

2. often (51% - 99%)

3. at times (1% - 50%)

4. never (0%)

I copied your statement because I think it is a good characterization.

[once removed]

if we are told "I am glad you are in my life", the indisputable fact is that those words were what was said.  If the next day their actions were to remove you from their life, then again those particular actions are facts!  

sure. those are facts. is that the same presentation as the kind of thought processes we are attributing?

ie "i am glad you are in my life" - translation: i never really loved you and tomorrow im going to remove you from my life

are those facts or an accurate picture? probably not. is it humorous? i dont see the punchline. if thats how i saw my partner and relationship i would have had a more difficult time attaching.

Maybe it serves as a reminder that we do not always have the same reality as another?

Knowing that our reality differs from another, and reminding ourselves to look for this can help us make sense of when we are confused that our behaviors have a confusing impact on others, and we are confused by the behaviors of others.

this is a lot harder than it sounds, to accept another persons reality as their own, let alone to try and understand it. i think what newton touched on is that we spent our relationships doing this. not really hearing our partners. interpreting, translating, dismissing, being confused by, insisting on our own reality, ultimately not accepting that their reality is theirs. we often continue to do this post relationship.

i dont have to agree with or condone whatever my exes thought process happened to be or even if there was one. learning (attempting at least) to see things from her perspective (combined with a clinical understanding of BPD) gave me a more balanced and more accurate perspective on my relationship and the breakup. that contributed to my detachment. so did humor

[Mutt]

Of course words can mean different things to different people however, it is clear that with pwBPD, the words often are not backed up with their behavior.

If someone tells you that they are glad that you are in their life one day and want to remove you from their life the next day it's impulsive. I've been through this like many members here and I felt a lot of pain and anger when my ex wife left that way. I think that what helps is learning about BPD psychopathology to understand the reasons why our ex partners acted the way that they did, that way we can depersonalize the behaviors. There are different theories about BPD but core criterions for BPD is emotional instability and impulsive behaviors.

[Newton]

Thankyou once removed for motivating me to clarify my thoughts/language... .I currently see this as the crux of what I learnt here and why I see the post thread as so valuable, for members and steve

It appears to me that this self awarded omnipetence is exactly what we need to avoid now... .we bought into it in the past... .and found a lost soul (literally) we could understand and fix... .and the reward for us?... .an often physically beautiful partner in awe of our tolerance... .patience... .and resilience. Our hope was they would come good with appropriate treatment (researched/vetted by us)... respect and adore us... and never leave... .we would be there... waiting for our destiny.  We picked a patsy... .so did they.  It was a mutually dependent arrangement... based on need.

Many stories here illustrate this is simply us trying to fix our past... .a need for approval from a lacking parent, through another, now. We used them as they used us... .harsh and true.  

Skip I'm not too keen on stats... .I'll refer to my therapist here... it was funny  ... "I get paid to listen to her... .why are you doing it?"... .

[steve195915]

Of course words can mean different things to different people however, it is clear that with pwBPD, the words often are not backed up with their behavior.

If someone tells you that they are glad that you are in their life one day and want to remove you from their life the next day it's impulsive. I've been through this like many members here and I felt a lot of pain and anger when my ex wife left that way. I think that what helps is learning about BPD psychopathology to understand the reasons why our ex partners acted the way that they did, that way we can depersonalize the behaviors. There are different theories about BPD but core criterions for BPD is emotional instability and impulsive behaviors.

Right on Mutt, I couldn't have explained it better!  The original intent of this thread was to show that the core criterion for BPD is emotional instability and impulsive behaviors and to achieve a greater awareness and acceptness of how that was manifested in our specific relationship.  Also that it wasn't just us, we weren't alone, that there were others that had the same experiences.  The translator was NOT meant to paint our ex black, NOT meant as an attempt to read minds, NOT meant to dicuss if there was calculating malice by our ex. 

The translator was to show what words were spoken at that time and based on the actions that occured what the more applicable words fit. 

There may be differing opinions, but I believe when my ex spoke words of kindness, she was experiencing some sort of real feelings of kindness at that moment in time.  They just weren't sustainable due to the BPD.



And yes I even laughed at some