Why are my shortcomings always brought up but hers never worthy of discussion?

[idahobpd]

The biggest issue with my BPD girlfriend is that it is hard to resolve issues because a discussion always leads to her bashing my many "shortcomings" but if I mention something for her to work on then I am either accused of changing the subject or attacking her. Is this common with BPD people?  Are there any strategies for dealing with this?

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[Fian]

First off, let me temporarily agree with your girlfriend.  If you are discussing one of your shortcomings, then bringing up one of hers is just deflection on your part.  First address her concern, and then let her know that you would also like to discuss a shortcoming on her part.

But to be honest, the whole let's get together and discuss each other's shortcomings is usually not a profitable conversation.  If there is something that she does that needs to be discussed, don't wait for a fight to bring it up.  Pick a time where you have planned what you want to say and what you would like her to do, and then bring it up.  Don't add it to a conversation where she is upset with you about one of your shortcomings.

[TheRealJongoBong]

Ah yes, the comprehensive list of faults. My wife used to do this routinely, listing out in detail all the ways that I failed her. And then she would use that list as a threat and say that if I didn't address ALL of these things she would leave me.

It's about control. It's about breaking you down to her level so that she can feel better about herself. It's about making you feel you're such a sack of s*** that you'll never even THINK of abandoning her.

It's also kind of pathetic. I always had the secret fantasy of listing them all out on a giant flip chart, and when she would think up a new one I could whip out the chart and say "Hold it! I have to write this down!" Then I could put the chart up in the living room as a monument.

But seriously, this situation is a perfect one for holding yourself up and setting a boundary.  When your SO attacks you in this way it is very disrespectful, so you can simply say "The way you are speaking to me is very disrespectful. I would never speak to you in this way, and I will not have this conversation with you again. If you do, I will simply leave until you have can speak respectfully to me."

[flourdust]

I always had the secret fantasy of listing them all out on a giant flip chart, and when she would think up a new one I could whip out the chart and say "Hold it! I have to write this down!" Then I could put the chart up in the living room as a monument.

DAMMIT! I almost choked to death on my coffee there! 

My experience with my pwBPD has been very similar. So many many conversations of her criticizing me. The phrase "I have a problem with... ." floods my system with adrenaline. Since I'm working very very hard to not do anything offensive, she is reduced to criticizing tiny nuances in my words, or picking on me for things I didn't say or do that she feels I should have. She has as much heat and vitriol as if I was cheating on her or drunk driving or calling her names. None of which I do.

I've learned that there's no point in me complaining about anything she does. She'll double down on her complaints as being much more valid than mine, tell me I hate her, storm off making threats, or some similar response. I try not to even ask her to do anything, because a request to do a household chore or take care of scheduling her own doctor's appointment can be translated by her into me attacking her.

I don't know where I'm going with this. I guess, as I look back, I see that this started out as seeming "a bit unfair" but snowballed to the point where it has rendered all communication impossible.

[globalnomad]

Sadly I also relate to this very much and I suspect it is textbook BPD behavior.

Last night I attempted to point out (in a quiet and calm moment) something my BPD fiance had done earlier in the day which I found very hurtful. We had been happily having dinner, eating pizza. I said something about the pizza, which reminded her of a text message she sent me a few days earlier that I hadn't replied to. I was really busy at the time at work, and her message was vague, so I had forgotten about it. It wasn't really important - she was just asking me about lunch plans for one day next week. We went from happily sitting there eating pizza one moment, to her raging at me for being inconsiderate and rude to her the next. All about me simply forgetting to respond to a text message several days earlier. She then gave me the silent treatment over the rest of dinner and refused to engage at all.

So I try to gently bring this up a few hours later. I explain that it's hurtful when she jumps to conclusions. I understand it's frustrating if I forget to respond to a text message, but it doesn't mean that I don't care about her, etc. And it doesn't justify the kind of vitriol she subjected me to over dinner.

This of course did not go down well. Why? A) I was changing the subject; b) Why aren't we talking about all of my shortcomings instead. If I didn't keep doing such hurtful things to her all the time, she wouldn't have to get so angry.

So like flourdust, I feel like there is no point in me ever pointing out anything inappropriate or hurtful that she does. I'm not sure what the answer is, because I feel like if I don't express these things once in a while the resentment is only going to build within me.

[Cat Familiar]

This reminds me of my relationship with my ex-husband, with whom I shared a business. I remember countless times when I wanted to discuss something with him that wasn't working well, either in our business or our personal lives. I would rehearse what I planned to say, trying to phrase it in the most kind and objective way. And then the conversation... .

I would be completely blindsided by him and the next thing I knew, he would be reciting a litany of complaints about me. I would end up apologizing for countless issues and promising to do better and feeling horrible.

Then after a few minutes alone, I would realize that we never even got into discussing what I had in mind originally. It was amazing how skillful he was at shifting the topic away from himself and onto me.

[maxsterling]

Sadly, this is part of the "radical acceptance" that comes along with being in a relationship with a pwBPD.  First of all, your girlfriend will always see shortcomings in you.  No matter how hard you try to solve them, the goalposts get moved and she will find something else to criticize.  She will bring up the same issues over and over, every time she gets in a bad mood.  Brining up her issues at this time, or at just about any other time, will lead nowhere.  Yes, it's a double standard, but that is the nature of this disorder. 

When she criticizes you, do your best to listen and remain calm. Avoid becoming defensive or putting things back on her.  If's she's already in the critical mode, the chance for a constructive discussion is already gone.  If you truly have issues with some shortcoming of hers, really think about whether it is worth bringing up, and bring it up at some other time.  My experience has been that bringing up my wife's shortcomings at any time is pointless - because usually I am telling my W something she already knows or has heard from someone else before.  This morning she was on my case about me being busy all the time and her sitting alone in the house.  Reality is, it is her responsibility to socialize - it's not my fault she has no friends.  But she knows that, and me pointing that out would have turned a relatively mild rant into a full blown rage.

[Fian]

DAMMIT! I almost choked to death on my coffee there! 

My experience with my pwBPD has been very similar. So many many conversations of her criticizing me. The phrase "I have a problem with... ." floods my system with adrenaline. Since I'm working very very hard to not do anything offensive, she is reduced to criticizing tiny nuances in my words, or picking on me for things I didn't say or do that she feels I should have. She has as much heat and vitriol as if I was cheating on her or drunk driving or calling her names. None of which I do.

I've learned that there's no point in me complaining about anything she does. She'll double down on her complaints as being much more valid than mine, tell me I hate her, storm off making threats, or some similar response. I try not to even ask her to do anything, because a request to do a household chore or take care of scheduling her own doctor's appointment can be translated by her into me attacking her.

I don't know where I'm going with this. I guess, as I look back, I see that this started out as seeming "a bit unfair" but snowballed to the point where it has rendered all communication impossible.

"Since I'm working very very hard to not do anything offensive, she is reduced to criticizing tiny nuances in my words, or picking on me for things I didn't say or do that she feels I should have. She has as much heat and vitriol as if I was cheating on her or drunk driving or calling her names. None of which I do."

This really hits home for me - and very accurately portrays my relationship with my wife.  What is hard for me to know, is how much of this is BPD type behavior, and how much is being in a standard relationship with a woman?  Do most women fall into this category?  I apologize in advance for women that are offended by the above, but I don't really have much to compare my experience to.

[maxsterling]

What is hard for me to know, is how much of this is BPD type behavior, and how much is being in a standard relationship with a woman?  Do most women fall into this category?  I apologize in advance for women that are offended by the above, but I don't really have much to compare my experience to.

Same here.  I feel if I had more dating experience, perhaps I would have not entered into this r/s.  I don't know what "normal" is, because many of my W's behaviors I also witnessed from my mom growing up.  My sister in law is also diagnosed BPD, and likely my brother in law is NPD or BPD.  An ex girlfriend of mine also strongly displayed NPD characteristics, and perhaps even another ex before that.  I feel I have many more examples of "unhealthyl" relationships than healthy ones.

[globalnomad]

"Since I'm working very very hard to not do anything offensive, she is reduced to criticizing tiny nuances in my words, or picking on me for things I didn't say or do that she feels I should have. She has as much heat and vitriol as if I was cheating on her or drunk driving or calling her names. None of which I do."

This really hits home for me - and very accurately portrays my relationship with my wife.  What is hard for me to know, is how much of this is BPD type behavior, and how much is being in a standard relationship with a woman?  Do most women fall into this category?  I apologize in advance for women that are offended by the above, but I don't really have much to compare my experience to.

I can assure you based on my past relationships that this type of behavior is not normal. Most women do not fall into this category. It is all about the BPD, in my view.

[Cat Familiar]

Regarding what is a " normal" relationship with a woman, one of the differences I see between the sexes is that women discuss relationships freely and easily.

We start talking about the nature of our friendships when we are little girls on the playground, while you boys are getting into skirmishes and challenging each other.

By the time we are adults, we have an extensive vocabulary and rules of engagement about relationship talk that you guys never have developed. So you're outgunned when we bring up issues and problems we have with you in our relationships.

I think most of us "nons" really want to work things out when we talk issues and with men who are not familiar with this practice, it can seem like blaming and shaming. Add in BPD on either side and you've got a recipe for major conflict.

[globalnomad]

By the time we are adults, we have an extensive vocabulary and rules of engagement about relationship talk that you guys never have developed. So you're outgunned when we bring up issues and problems we have with you in our relationships.

Thankyou for a much more nuanced take than mine I agree there are big differences in the sexes here. The difference I see with my current BPD partner is in the "rules of engagement." Sure, I have had difficulty in past relationships at times when my partner wanted to talk about her feelings, something I can be uncomfortable with as a man. Yet these interactions were generally respectful. With my BPD partner the same type of conversations will often devolve into name calling, yelling, threats and emotional extortion. There is no sense of proper boundaries. It is in this sense I say that it's the BPD talking. Differences in the sexes can only explain so much.

[flourdust]

By the time we are adults, we have an extensive vocabulary and rules of engagement about relationship talk that you guys never have developed. So you're outgunned when we bring up issues and problems we have with you in our relationships.

Thankyou for a much more nuanced take than mine I agree there are big differences in the sexes here. The difference I see with my current BPD partner is in the "rules of engagement." Sure, I have had difficulty in past relationships at times when my partner wanted to talk about her feelings, something I can be uncomfortable with as a man. Yet these interactions were generally respectful. With my BPD partner the same type of conversations will often devolve into name calling, yelling, threats and emotional extortion. There is no sense of proper boundaries. It is in this sense I say that it's the BPD talking. Differences in the sexes can only explain so much.

Well put, both of you. Here's what I see as the BPD rules of engagement:

• There is no issue too trivial to be angry about. There are also no upper limits to how angry one can get in any dispute.



• There is no cooling off period followed by an apology or reconciliation.



• You can not "agree to disagree."



• The expected script is that the BPD complains/vents, the non takes responsibility and makes amends, repeat the cycle until the BPD feels better. Any deviation from this script is viewed as betrayal and demonstration of failure to communicate.



• Complaints MUST be aired whenever the urge strikes. There are no bad times. There is no such thing as "too much fighting."



• Any request to delay or modulate a confrontation is viewed as controlling, abusive behavior by the non and is justification for any vengeance the BPD chooses to exact.



• The non's behavior justifies any retaliatory behavior on the part of the BPD. The BPD is entitled to say anything or do anything because of what the non has done.

Ugh. So depressing when written like this. So harsh. But that's my experience.

[maxsterling]

Well put, both of you. Here's what I see as the BPD rules of engagement:

• There is no issue too trivial to be angry about. There are also no upper limits to how angry one can get in any dispute.



• There is no cooling off period followed by an apology or reconciliation.



• You can not "agree to disagree."



• The expected script is that the BPD complains/vents, the non takes responsibility and makes amends, repeat the cycle until the BPD feels better. Any deviation from this script is viewed as betrayal and demonstration of failure to communicate.



• Complaints MUST be aired whenever the urge strikes. There are no bad times. There is no such thing as "too much fighting."



• Any request to delay or modulate a confrontation is viewed as controlling, abusive behavior by the non and is justification for any vengeance the BPD chooses to exact.



• The non's behavior justifies any retaliatory behavior on the part of the BPD. The BPD is entitled to say anything or do anything because of what the non has done.

Ugh. So depressing when written like this. So harsh. But that's my experience.

Sadly, my experience, too.  This is reality.  No matter how many times you discuss rules of fair fighting or rules of engagement with a pwBPD, and even if they agree, when an emotion strikes, all is thrown out the window.  Any attempt to assert boundaries or reminders of proper rules of engagement after the emotion has hit will be interpreted as control.  There is no escaping that - you WILL be accused of being controlling.  Trust yourself at this point, save your sanity, enforce a boundary and physically leave. 

[Ceruleanblue]

It is unfair, and it is a double standard, but I agree with the others that it's pretty much a big part of BPD. They can't or won't accept flaws in themselves easily, and so they defensively project onto us. I try to keep in mind though when BPDh complains, that just because he has a PD, doesn't mean he couldn't have a valid point. I can pretty much tell if it's legitimate, or bogus.

I think with pwBPD just don't want to focus on any of their issues, so it's easier to focus on ours. What's funny is that the non is usually the more willing partner to self focus, so in situations like MC, they focus gets shifted onto them. This can be frustrating, and feel very unfair. We are headed back into MC, but I'm very cautious after our last go round there. This time it's with my personal therapist, and she has enough of the backstory, and she says she's worked a lot with men with anger issues, she's familiar with step family issues, and she said she thinks BPDh learning to communicate, would really help us. I agree, of course. I'd love to be able to communicate with him, because as it is, it's nearly impossible.

[JaneStorm]

Well put, both of you. Here's what I see as the BPD rules of engagement:

• There is no issue too trivial to be angry about. There are also no upper limits to how angry one can get in any dispute.



• There is no cooling off period followed by an apology or reconciliation.



• You can not "agree to disagree."



• The expected script is that the BPD complains/vents, the non takes responsibility and makes amends, repeat the cycle until the BPD feels better. Any deviation from this script is viewed as betrayal and demonstration of failure to communicate.



• Complaints MUST be aired whenever the urge strikes. There are no bad times. There is no such thing as "too much fighting."



• Any request to delay or modulate a confrontation is viewed as controlling, abusive behavior by the non and is justification for any vengeance the BPD chooses to exact.



• The non's behavior justifies any retaliatory behavior on the part of the BPD. The BPD is entitled to say anything or do anything because of what the non has done.

Ugh. So depressing when written like this. So harsh. But that's my experience.

Sadly, my experience, too.  This is reality.  No matter how many times you discuss rules of fair fighting or rules of engagement with a pwBPD, and even if they agree, when an emotion strikes, all is thrown out the window.  Any attempt to assert boundaries or reminders of proper rules of engagement after the emotion has hit will be interpreted as control.  There is no escaping that - you WILL be accused of being controlling.  Trust yourself at this point, save your sanity, enforce a boundary and physically leave. 

All sadly true.

[Ceruleanblue]

BPDh was given a print out of "rules of fair fighting" in his DBT class. I read it, found I was doing most of it anyways, but was glad that BPDh had the handout. Well, he never applied or tried any of it, and I know if he did I'd sure feel a lot better. It feels unfair because I practice fair fighting, and carefully word things I say, just so he doesn't take offense, but he doesn't feel he needs to hold himself to any standards.

The best I can hope for when he gets in one of his moods, is to not engage, or walk away. Forget being able to talk to him as you would in a normal marriage. That just can't happen, at least at this point.

[byfaith]

There is no issue too trivial to be angry about. There are also no upper limits to how angry one can get in any dispute.

There is no cooling off period followed by an apology or reconciliation.

You can not "agree to disagree."

The expected script is that the BPD complains/vents, the non takes responsibility and makes amends, repeat the cycle until the BPD feels better. Any deviation from this script is viewed as betrayal and demonstration of failure to communicate.

Complaints MUST be aired whenever the urge strikes. There are no bad times. There is no such thing as "too much fighting."

Any request to delay or modulate a confrontation is viewed as controlling, abusive behavior by the non and is justification for any vengeance the BPD chooses to exact.

The non's behavior justifies any retaliatory behavior on the part of the BPD. The BPD is entitled to say anything or do anything because of what the non has done.

going on 5 days of silent treatment... .now it's semi silent based on the fact that I didn't embrace placing silverware in the dishwasher her way. I was informed last night that I cannot make mistakes such as this. She let me know how lowly she thought of me that I would not give her that. When she asked me to do it I didn't say yes or no. I needed time to think about it. To her my behavior was volatile. She told me that my emotions are like that of a girl and that I come unravelled at the smallest thing. She told me that she needs an example to look up to and that I have to be the rock of the family. I told her I don't believe I can live up to her expectations, that did not go over well. 

I told her it's like she wants me to be the father she never had. I said I cannot make up for what every male in your life messed up.  Basically she said that I can never let her down and things will stay the way they are until I change. She said she is going to therapy to fix herself but from what I hear coming out of her mouth I am not really sure she knows what is?   

[globalnomad]

Well put, both of you. Here's what I see as the BPD rules of engagement:

• There is no issue too trivial to be angry about. There are also no upper limits to how angry one can get in any dispute.



• There is no cooling off period followed by an apology or reconciliation.



• You can not "agree to disagree."



• The expected script is that the BPD complains/vents, the non takes responsibility and makes amends, repeat the cycle until the BPD feels better. Any deviation from this script is viewed as betrayal and demonstration of failure to communicate.



• Complaints MUST be aired whenever the urge strikes. There are no bad times. There is no such thing as "too much fighting."



• Any request to delay or modulate a confrontation is viewed as controlling, abusive behavior by the non and is justification for any vengeance the BPD chooses to exact.



• The non's behavior justifies any retaliatory behavior on the part of the BPD. The BPD is entitled to say anything or do anything because of what the non has done.

Ugh. So depressing when written like this. So harsh. But that's my experience.

This is brilliant, but sad and true, as others have noted! I personally have most trouble with the third of these: You can not agree to disagree. This is the circuit breaker in a "normal" relationship. Small differences of opinion over a range of matters are part of any relationship, and you just agree to disagree, and move on with life. This seems impossible for a BPD to do. If the non does not entirely disavow his or her own differing view and apologize, it is viewed as an assault on their character. Over time, this becomes absolutely exhausting.

[Fian]

So for normal, non-BPD women, does your husband tone/body language bother you?  Or, so long as his words are not cruel, it is just a minor issue for you?  I frequently get judged that my tone was harsh, or she didn't like my body language, while my actual words were not cruel.  I often have no clue that I am offending her, and she is very upset at me later.

[JaneStorm]

So for normal, non-BPD women, does your husband tone/body language bother you?  Or, so long as his words are not cruel, it is just a minor issue for you?  I frequently get judged that my tone was harsh, or she didn't like my body language, while my actual words were not cruel.  I often have no clue that I am offending her, and she is very upset at me later.

GREAT question! yes; don't know if it is a BPD thing or just me:

Shuffling feet

Slumped posture

Looking the other way when speaking to me; can't hear and hate it. Full body away from me

Mumbling

No eye contact; eyes closed during intimacy and after

Constant touching without the correction of issues listed above

[Cat Familiar]

So for normal, non-BPD women, does your husband tone/body language bother you?  Or, so long as his words are not cruel, it is just a minor issue for you?  I frequently get judged that my tone was harsh, or she didn't like my body language, while my actual words were not cruel.  I often have no clue that I am offending her, and she is very upset at me later.

It's often said that tone and body language convey the true communication and words obfuscate. Lots of times we are sending mixed messages and the question is to what do we respond? I tend to think that words are cheap and I don't trust them if they are in conflict with what else is being communicated. It's much harder to hide body language and voice tone, so I tend to trust them more than words.

[Sentry13]

I know exactly what the OP is talking about. This has been my entire relationship with my BPD. Everything is my fault I am free to criticize but she is not. She can say the most hurtful things but hey are just words I need to get over words don't hurt. I say things back and they can never be forgiven. If she deems the discussion to be over its over. I tried walking away completely one time and I was told never to do that again. I can never bring up anything that is wrong with her or anything bad shes done in the past because if I do im either playing the victim or defecting.

[VitaminC]

This really hits home for me - and very accurately portrays my relationship with my wife.  What is hard for me to know, is how much of this is BPD type behavior, and how much is being in a standard relationship with a woman?  :)o most women fall into this category?  I apologize in advance for women that are offended by the above, but I don't really have much to compare my experience to.[/quote]
I hope I'm quoting the right person here, it's get confusing.

Anyway, just want to say that this is definitely not the case with all women! It's not a gender thing! I'm not speaking in an offended tone, just to be clear.  

When telling my friends about some of my ex's behaviours, some of them would respond with "typical man", or "men always etc etc".  What a bunch of rubbish.  Not all men rush off and sleep with someone the moment there are issues in a relationship, not all men look at porn, not all men soothe themselves with alcohol and have trouble talking about their feelings.

Not all men do anything and not all women.