Time Makes The Heart Grow Colder

[Depression = 72% of members]

Anyone else notice that with BD's?

[Kelli Cornett]

Anyone else notice that with BD's?

[thisworld]

They lack consistence and are unable to remember people, things etc when they are not around, which sometimes translates to out of mind out of sight.

[Herodias]

Mine says he thinks of me all the time... he says when he sees a car that looks like mine, he wonders if I am in it and thinks of me... .I thought it was out of sight out of mind... .but I am not sure.

[Kelli Cornett]

"Lack of Object Constancy

Definition:

Lack of Object Constancy - An inability to remember that people or objects are consistent, trustworthy and reliable, especially when they are out of your immediate field of vision.

Lacking Faith in Reality

Object Constancy is a developmental skill which most children do not develop until two or three years of age. It takes time, and experience of the reliability of the key people in their world, for them to develop a sense that when Mommy leaves the room, she’s still on the same planet, and will reappear again.

When they are still very young, infants often experience Separation Anxiety whenever they are separated from a parent, even for a second. They may begin crying unless they are held or unless they can see their parent close by, terrified that they have “lost” their parent.

When toddlers become mobile and begin to explore their world, they often begin to take short excursions to explore their environment, turning their attention to an interesting object and checking back with mom or dad every few minutes to feel safe again. As the child develops, the time between “check in’s” tends to extend longer. By the time a child is 4 or 5 years old, most children can spend several hours at pre-school or school away from their parents without experiencing significant separation anxiety.

The ability to recognize that although they can't see their parent, that their parent is still “there” and that they are still safe is sometimes referred to as Object Constancy.

Object Constancy is the ability to understand that some things or people remain constant - even when we can’t see them or verify that they are “still there”. Object constancy can apply to objects or to people and relationships. People who suffer from Personality Disorders sometimes experience a lack or a deficiency in object constancy. This can be at the root of issues such as Fear of Abandonment, as well as Selective Amnesia, False Accusations and Dissociative Memories.

What it Looks Like

A baby cries as soon as a parent leaves the room.

A partner calls or texts repeatedly - more than 10 times in a single day.

A parent assumes that their teenager has run away when they are 15 minutes late getting home from school.

A housewife has repeated affairs while her husband is at work because she feels abandoned."


^^ That right?

[thisworld]

Yes, that's why my ex desperately wanted to remain friends with his exes on FB and other social media even though they didn't.  He needed to "see" to feel that they were in his life - even though these relationships ended a long time ago. He never managed to completely let go, but couldn't sustain feelings either without stimuli, so he was stuck forever in a limbo. When someone gave him nothing to remember, they were kind of out of his heart.

[Herodias]

Mine said I was a big part of his life and he will always love me... .I feel almost like it is like how you love your family.

[homefree]

I don't know why, but I often wonder if she still thinks about me. I was such a big part of her life for long enough that by all accounts there should be reminders all the time.

But she always told me she was terrible with remembering things. She would even joke about it when I asked her if she remembered something from the past that happened to us.

I will probably never know, like a lot of other things, and so that is affecting my chance at closure. Thinking that she misses me makes me feel better, thinking that she is forgetting me makes me feel worse. Clearly I shouldn't focus on that aspect since it won't help me.

Wow. I don't think I realized how much that is bothering me until I posted this. The thought that I've already been forgotten is almost to painful for me to even think about.

[lovenature]

The less supply they get from you, the less likely they are to contact you and try to recycle; remember, it is all about them.

[Kelli Cornett]

The less supply they get from you, the less likely they are to contact you and try to recycle; remember, it is all about them.

Probably totally true.

[Kelli Cornett]

I wish it explained what causes a child to not develop that skill. Can they ever re-learn it?

[thisworld]

Can they ever re-learn it? Who knows.

That thing we are describing as finding supply is what narcissists classically do. Can narcissism be "cured", can someone make it go away? Being the child of a low-grade narcissist I think Google provides realistic answers to that. Sometimes, it's heart-breaking for the partner to discover that the person in treatment, therapy etc does not actually care about not having empathy. This is what many narcs actually discover in therapy after a lot of hard work and years, and they choose to pursue the matter no longer. For some others, some behaviours may be modified and life gets easier, but I'm yet to see a narc able to build intimacy or a loving bond in the way we understand it.

But yes, therapy is a process of re-parenting yourself under the guidance of an expert. It's a process of facing your fears that have caused you to develop ineffective coping skills, undoing the damage and rebuilding a "self" sometimes. In DBT, which is deemed effective for borderlines, you get to learn some useful behaviours, new coping methods on the way, too. It can be done. A huge commitment is necessary, a long time - maybe 4-7 years- and a really capable therapist. Unfortunately, it's commonly said that many people drop at the face of real change and growth. Sometimes, relationships get better and then all of a sudden, after years of therapy, they leave their partners and partners feel cheated big time.

Will it be done and also turn the way we wished it to be? I thought my chances were slim, so so slim that it was slightly more than daydreaming really. My T agrees.

[jhkbuzz]

I don't know why, but I often wonder if she still thinks about me. I was such a big part of her life for long enough that by all accounts there should be reminders all the time.

But she always told me she was terrible with remembering things. She would even joke about it when I asked her if she remembered something from the past that happened to us.

I will probably never know, like a lot of other things, and so that is affecting my chance at closure. Thinking that she misses me makes me feel better, thinking that she is forgetting me makes me feel worse. Clearly I shouldn't focus on that aspect since it won't help me.

Wow. I don't think I realized how much that is bothering me until I posted this. The thought that I've already been forgotten is almost to painful for me to even think about.

When we were first becoming involved, my ex wanted me to give her an article of clothing (that smelled like me) so she could sleep with it. At the time I thought it was unusual, but sweet. I now understand her issues with object constancy.

I understand why you feel worse, but you will come to understand that problems with object constancy and dissociation are part and parcel of a personality disorder. We know how we feel and what we will do for someone we love - and we expect the same in return. But someone with a personality disorder isn't capable of healthy adult intimacy and love.

[C.Stein]

When we were first becoming involved, my ex wanted me to give her an article of clothing (that smelled like me) so she could sleep with it. At the time I thought it was unusual, but sweet. I now understand her issues with object constancy.

My ex did the same thing.  Is this an issue of object constancy or an issue of insecurity?

[Kelli Cornett]

Can they ever re-learn it? Who knows.

That thing we are describing as finding supply is what narcissists classically do. Can narcissism be "cured", can someone make it go away? Being the child of a low-grade narcissist I think Google provides realistic answers to that. Sometimes, it's heart-breaking for the partner to discover that the person in treatment, therapy etc does not actually care about not having empathy. This is what many narcs actually discover in therapy after a lot of hard work and years, and they choose to pursue the matter no longer. For some others, some behaviours may be modified and life gets easier, but I'm yet to see a narc able to build intimacy or a loving bond in the way we understand it.

But yes, therapy is a process of re-parenting yourself under the guidance of an expert. It's a process of facing your fears that have caused you to develop ineffective coping skills, undoing the damage and rebuilding a "self" sometimes. In DBT, which is deemed effective for borderlines, you get to learn some useful behaviours, new coping methods on the way, too. It can be done. A huge commitment is necessary, a long time - maybe 4-7 years- and a really capable therapist. Unfortunately, it's commonly said that many people drop at the face of real change and growth. Sometimes, relationships get better and then all of a sudden, after years of therapy, they leave their partners and partners feel cheated big time.

Will it be done and also turn the way we wished it to be? I thought my chances were slim, so so slim that it was slightly more than daydreaming really. My T agrees.

I do not think Narcs can change they will fake everything till their death bed. Cause if they can fake it why would they change it? 10 fold. BPD on the other hand have a shot at changing but takes a LOT of work but is possible. They have that ability to tap into empathy, Narcs can not.

[Joem678]

I think what needs to be asked is, were you the "false-self" replacement?  It seems, my wife always strategically picked the person she sucked attention from.  Like she knew they were dead ends.  I do believe my wife was either aware of the disorder or even addicted to it.  I have read that some BPDs will get addicted to dissocation to the point, where it is hard for them to come out of it.

If you were the "false-self" replacement, I would expect them to grow colder and colder and colder.  When you are the SO of the "True Self" BPD, they will never let go of you. 

This has just been my experience.  My BPDw has never recycled a false-self replacement.  In a sense, I have been the only one recycled.

[HurtinNW]

Before my current ex I had a 15 year relationship where I felt very secure. But in this relationship I began demonstrating all these symptoms, including lack of object constancy. I think my ex triggered this is in me. In fact I think in some odd way he did it deliberately if unconsciously. He'd rage and be verbally abusive, saying awful things that he knew would trigger my memories of childhood abuse. Then he would leave to his house and give me the silent treatment for days or weeks or even months. Then he would express remorse and want to try again.

After enough of this I became very dysregulated myself. Whenever we recycled I was in a constant panic he would leave me. I remember asking him for one of his shirts to sleep with at night, and also for him to send me bedtime text messages when we were apart. I always felt like I was trying to rebuild the attachment, to soothe my own fears of abandonment. From his standpoint I was the one who was too needy, crazy, etc. He would tell me that whenever he was mad, too, saying it was my fault, because I was too needy. He would say he couldn't breath, that I sucked all the energy out of the room. He would get mad again and bam, rage, be abusive, and leave to repeat the awful cycle.

I never thought of it this way before. I had thought he must be right, that my anxiety and needs were too much. But maybe his behaviors were meant in some unconscious way to make me the crazy one, to give me the symptoms he felt. So he could reject me.

[jhkbuzz]

When we were first becoming involved, my ex wanted me to give her an article of clothing (that smelled like me) so she could sleep with it. At the time I thought it was unusual, but sweet. I now understand her issues with object constancy.

My ex did the same thing.  Is this an issue of object constancy or an issue of insecurity?

With my ex, I believe it's an issue of object constancy.

[C.Stein]

When we were first becoming involved, my ex wanted me to give her an article of clothing (that smelled like me) so she could sleep with it. At the time I thought it was unusual, but sweet. I now understand her issues with object constancy.

My ex did the same thing.  Is this an issue of object constancy or an issue of insecurity?

With my ex, I believe it's an issue of object constancy.

Can you explain why?  Maybe it was the same for my ex?

[jhkbuzz]

When we were first becoming involved, my ex wanted me to give her an article of clothing (that smelled like me) so she could sleep with it. At the time I thought it was unusual, but sweet. I now understand her issues with object constancy.

My ex did the same thing.  Is this an issue of object constancy or an issue of insecurity?

With my ex, I believe it's an issue of object constancy.

Can you explain why?  Maybe it was the same for my ex?

I think it's pretty specific to my ex... .but I don't know your situation.

My ex dissociated - a lot. Dissociative disorders are on a spectrum, with multiple personalities being on the extreme end of the spectrum. My ex did not have multiple personality disorder, but there was definitely a cast of characters that her therapist referred to as her "parts of self."

Initially, I met teenage M - an older teen who is very sexual, impulsive, and (as my therapist pointed out) probably has Borderline Personality Disorder. Teenage M lies chronically, is promiscuous, and was unfaithful in our r/s.  None of this was clear to me at the beginning, obviously. I met a charming, exciting woman who I fell in love with. Our r/s followed the predictable BPD pattern that is described elsewhere on this website.

After we moved in together, I met "Little M."  Little M. was very sweet, very young, very insecure, and very preoccupied with feeling 'safe'. I saw flashes of her when we were dating, but she wasn't in the "lead." I believe this is her part of self that struggles with object constancy. Little M. stuck around for a long time after we moved in together. I wondered what had happened to the sexy, interesting woman I had met - she just sort of disappeared. But at that point we were in a committed r/s - and there was a child in the mix - so I stuck it out as best I could because I loved her. When she became unhappy in the r/s, teenage M came back - angry and avoidant. She began lying and cheating on and off for the next four years.

In the mix was also "Adult M" - plus a few others, I think. But I digress.

Each part of self had a different affect. A part of self could "take the lead" for a long time - or briefly. It was very confusing, and, towards the end of the r/s when her acting out became more extreme, it made me feel that I didn't actually know the person who I had spent the last 8 years of my life with.

I was completely devastated when our r/s first ended, but I feel sorry for her now. She struggles with massive confusion and fights unwinnable internal battles. What little M wants is different from what teenage M wants is different from what adult M wants.

It's pure chaos. She leaped from our r/s into another. I hope she remained in therapy - for her sake.

[EaglesJuju]

There tends to be a lot of confusion of object constancy and object permanence. 

A lack of object permanence is not understanding that certain things continued to exist when they are independent from our perceptions. Piaget studied object permanence with children.  It is equivalent to "out of sight, out of mind." When a person is physically not present, they can believe the person does not exist, never is going to return,  or they have a difficulty evoking images of that person.  In effect, this triggers abandonment fears and accompanying behavior. 

On the other hand, object constancy is the inability to perceive something as "whole."  People are complex and have a range of "good" and "bad" qualities.  A person who lacks object constancy relates to people or themselves as parts, either good or bad.  The perception of self or another is dependent on emotional states. For example, when an argument happens the partner is "split" and perceived as frustrating, withholding, "bad," etc. The perceptions of another and self can rapidly shift from one extreme according to mood.

These issues occur during childhood development, especially with poor parenting or an invalidating environment. Therapy does help and can repair these deficiencies.

When you perceive someone who has these issues as "normal," it is going to seem like they have no empathy and are indifferent. Usually it opposite, but maladaptive coping mechanisms take over.

[Mutt]

Anyone else notice that with BD's?

I noticed your thread title "time makes the heart grow colder"

I feel like such a fool and embarrassed to even post this. For the past 10 months I've been with my BPD. We just broke up. (well it seems ) of course he painted me black and dumped me by leaving me in a mall parking lot and driving away

You were split black roughly 6 months ago. Are you still split black? Is that why you are asking if time makes the heart grow colder?