No self-harm and no suicide threats

[circularref]

Hello,

So I've had a very tumultuous relationship with this woman for about 8 months. Looking back and reading about BPD and reading the posts on this forum I am almost sure that she has (undiagnosed) BPD. In fact, she warned me at the very beginning that she thought she might have it which I dismissed because at the time everything was going great. She certainly ticks a lot of the boxes for BPD: projection, wildly fluctuating opinions from day-to-day, random anger bursts, self-image issues, massive insecurities, in constant need of attention (whatever I did was never enough), fights were never resolved, previous fights were always brought up in new fights, never apologized, extreme jealousy, I was walking on eggshells, childish behavior, passive-aggressiveness, etc.

However, it seems a key element of BPD (from my research) is self-harm and threats of suicide which she never did. Is this a treat common in all BPD? She did say that when she was a child she would do a lot of half-suicide attempts to get attention and eventually stopped when her psychiatrist threatened to have her put in the hospital to be looked after.

[Euler2718]

No. you only need to have 5 of the 9 symptoms (as long as they're pervasive) to have BPD. My ex didn't actually try suicide but she sometimes thought about it. Having the thoughts is called suicidal ideation. It's dangerous, though, because they could end up acting on it.

(Other symptoms: jealousy! you mentioned this).

Also, she was 25 but I often got this sinking feeling that I was actually in a relationship with a 12 year old inside a 25 year old body.

[Michelle27]

My ex didn't threaten suicide or self harm either, but he once told me he had attempted suicide long before we met.  His Dad and stepmom say it didn't happen, so it either didn't or he just didn't tell them but he did mention it to me.  He also told me he had to go to drug rehab which they also say they didn't know about and with all the lies, I just don't know what is true and what isn't.  He claimed his father beat him into a coma when he was a teenager and yet his family friends and his step mom don't know anything about it (for obvious reasons, I won't ask his Dad).  Despite these inconsistencies, I saw every other symptom in the 15 years I spent with him, so even if self harm (drug use?) and the suicide attempt didn't happen, he has the others.  At this point, I don't care if he has it or not, I've finally figured out that him having it or not doesn't matter... .the relationship wasn't healthy for me and that's all that matters as far as taking care of myself and my kids.

[Dutched]

Can’t find some more background in your postings, but probably your ex was more high functioning.

BPD is a spectrum disorder, from the more known Low Function people (substance abuse, cutting, not holding jobs and many short relationships) up to the mentioned High Functioning ones (rumours according to others like Marylin Monroe, Lady Diana, etc.), who are ‘perfectly’ able to have a long term r/s, however one that is still unstable.

Maybe this helps

Mr. Randy Kreger (who posted on this Board too) describes a HF as, which is in my case really spot on:

"1. Denial is their primary characteristic. They disavow having any problems and see no need to change. Relationship difficulties, they say, are everyone else’s fault. If family members suggests they may have BPD, they almost always accuse the other person of having it instead. (This is why I strongly advise non-BPs to leave this disclosure to a trained professional)

2. They cope with their pain by raging outward, blaming and accusing family members for real or imagined problems (“acting out”)

3. They refuse to seek help from the mental health system unless someone threatens to end the relationship. If they do go, they usually don’t intend to work on their own issues. In couples therapy, their goal is often to convince the therapist that they are being victimized

4. They may hide their low self-esteem behind a brash, confident pose that hides their inner turmoil. They usually function quite well at work and only display aggressive behavior toward those close to them (high functioning). But the black hole in the gut and their intense self-loathing are still there. It’s just buried deeper

5. If they also have other mental disorders, they’re ones that also allow for high functioning such as Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) or Antisocial Personality Disorder (APD). (These mostly appear concurrently in men—especially APD)

6. Family members’ greatest challenges include coping with verbal abuse, protecting children, trying to get their family member to seel treatment, and maintaining their self-esteem and sense of reality. Partners, especially, are in relationships with Cluster Two BPs. "

7. Are often perfectionists in some areas of their lives and sometimes do achieve near perfection in these areas

8. Situational Competence in most places other than the home

9.  Well Thought of in the Community

10. Highly Successful Professionally

11.Lack of Physical Self Mutilation

[JaneStorm]

Can’t find some more background in your postings, but probably your ex was more high functioning.

BPD is a spectrum disorder, from the more known Low Function people (substance abuse, cutting, not holding jobs and many short relationships) up to the mentioned High Functioning ones (rumours according to others like Marylin Monroe, Lady Diana, etc.), who are ‘perfectly’ able to have a long term r/s, however one that is still unstable.

Maybe this helps

Mr. Randy Kreger (who posted on this Board too) describes a HF as, which is in my case really spot on:

"1. Denial is their primary characteristic. They disavow having any problems and see no need to change. Relationship difficulties, they say, are everyone else’s fault. If family members suggests they may have BPD, they almost always accuse the other person of having it instead. (This is why I strongly advise non-BPs to leave this disclosure to a trained professional)

2. They cope with their pain by raging outward, blaming and accusing family members for real or imagined problems (“acting out”)

3. They refuse to seek help from the mental health system unless someone threatens to end the relationship. If they do go, they usually don’t intend to work on their own issues. In couples therapy, their goal is often to convince the therapist that they are being victimized

4. They may hide their low self-esteem behind a brash, confident pose that hides their inner turmoil. They usually function quite well at work and only display aggressive behavior toward those close to them (high functioning). But the black hole in the gut and their intense self-loathing are still there. It’s just buried deeper

5. If they also have other mental disorders, they’re ones that also allow for high functioning such as Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) or Antisocial Personality Disorder (APD). (These mostly appear concurrently in men—especially APD)

6. Family members’ greatest challenges include coping with verbal abuse, protecting children, trying to get their family member to seel treatment, and maintaining their self-esteem and sense of reality. Partners, especially, are in relationships with Cluster Two BPs. "

7. Are often perfectionists in some areas of their lives and sometimes do achieve near perfection in these areas

8. Situational Competence in most places other than the home

9.  Well Thought of in the Community

10. Highly Successful Professionally

11.Lack of Physical Self Mutilation

Good stuff. I would add OCD to the list of the high functioning cluster. At least for my BPDexbf.

[JQ]

Ref,

You received a lot of good information here. BPD as I've said is a Very SERIOUS MENTAL / BEHAVIORAL ILLNESS!  People who have BPD have the highest suicide attempted rates of all mental illnesses and unfortunately one of the highest completion rates of 8-10% of those who actually attempt it.

If you know someone ... .anyone especially someone who has BPD and says they're going to commit suicide or actually attempts other means of self harm DO NOT HESITATE to contact 911.  Most states will have them admitted into a hospital for 48-72 hours for evaluation. Yes they will be pissed ... .yes they might not talk to you again ... .given the behavior of BPD this probably won't happen.  They will get professional help that they need to include meds to calm them down and maybe get some additional help that they so desperately need ... .but maybe someone was afraid to call before now ... .

but in any case ... .it's better to call 911 and get the help for the person who is in so much pain and they survive ... .then to ignore them as an attempt to get your attention and they actually complete the act ... .

JQ

[circularref]

Can’t find some more background in your postings, but probably your ex was more high functioning.

BPD is a spectrum disorder, from the more known Low Function people (substance abuse, cutting, not holding jobs and many short relationships) up to the mentioned High Functioning ones (rumours according to others like Marylin Monroe, Lady Diana, etc.), who are ‘perfectly’ able to have a long term r/s, however one that is still unstable.

Maybe this helps

Mr. Randy Kreger (who posted on this Board too) describes a HF as, which is in my case really spot on:

"1. Denial is their primary characteristic. They disavow having any problems and see no need to change. Relationship difficulties, they say, are everyone else’s fault. If family members suggests they may have BPD, they almost always accuse the other person of having it instead. (This is why I strongly advise non-BPs to leave this disclosure to a trained professional)

2. They cope with their pain by raging outward, blaming and accusing family members for real or imagined problems (“acting out”)

3. They refuse to seek help from the mental health system unless someone threatens to end the relationship. If they do go, they usually don’t intend to work on their own issues. In couples therapy, their goal is often to convince the therapist that they are being victimized

4. They may hide their low self-esteem behind a brash, confident pose that hides their inner turmoil. They usually function quite well at work and only display aggressive behavior toward those close to them (high functioning). But the black hole in the gut and their intense self-loathing are still there. It’s just buried deeper

5. If they also have other mental disorders, they’re ones that also allow for high functioning such as Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) or Antisocial Personality Disorder (APD). (These mostly appear concurrently in men—especially APD)

6. Family members’ greatest challenges include coping with verbal abuse, protecting children, trying to get their family member to seel treatment, and maintaining their self-esteem and sense of reality. Partners, especially, are in relationships with Cluster Two BPs. "

7. Are often perfectionists in some areas of their lives and sometimes do achieve near perfection in these areas

8. Situational Competence in most places other than the home

9.  Well Thought of in the Community

10. Highly Successful Professionally

11.Lack of Physical Self Mutilation

This resonates with me. When things were over with my ex, I was so desperate for answers I tried talking to her friends to see if maybe they knew something I didn't know. I found out they knew absolutely nothing of what happened in the relationship, they even heard different stories and nobody even suspected it was a relationship full of drama. Her supposedly best friend didn't know anything about her childhood traumas, some of her friends didn't even know the relationship was over (I was the one that told them), most thought I was entirely at fault, etc. She is good at hiding her issues.

Ref,

You received a lot of good information here. BPD as I've said is a Very SERIOUS MENTAL / BEHAVIORAL ILLNESS~!  People who have BPD have the highest suicide attempted rates of all mental illnesses and unfortunately one of the highest completion rates of 8-10% of those who actually attempt it.

If you know someone ... .anyone especially someone who has BPD and says they're going to commit suicide or actually attempts other means of self harm DO NOT HESITATE to contact 911.  Most states will have them admitted into a hospital for 48-72 hours for evaluation. Yes they will be pissed ... .yes they might not talk to you again ... .given the behavior of BPD this probably won't happen.  They will get professional help that they need to include meds to calm them down and maybe get some additional help that they so desperately need ... .but maybe someone was afraid to call before now ... .

but in any case ... .it's better to call 911 and get the help for the person who is in so much pain and they survive ... .then to ignore them as an attempt to get your attention and they actually complete the act ... .

JQ

Yes I take suicide threats and attempts very seriously.

[troisette]

You just described my ex Dutched. Thank you.

We both live in the same small town. I'm coping with strict NC, but number 9 is a problem for me. So well thought of, if only they knew... .For self-protection I've said nothing but it's galling.

Has anyone else experienced this and got any advice? Thanks.

[JQ]

You just described my ex Dutched. Thank you.

We both live in the same small town. I'm coping with strict NC, but number 9 is a problem for me. So well thought of, if only they knew... .For self-protection I've said nothing but it's galling.

Has anyone else experienced this and got any advice? Thanks.

Troisette,

I know living in the same small town with your exBPD has to be tough ... .and difficult to deal with on a daily basis.  Rise above it all ... .take a deep breath ... .take comfort in the knowledge that you are in a better place and that you don't have to deal with the flying monkeys each time he opens their cage of drama and chaos.  Take yourself out for a salad and a water or Italian & a glass of wine or a burger & a beer. Call a friend you haven't talked to in some time ... .

You're doing good by not saying anything ... .I know it's tough ... .but in the long run you're a much better person and stronger for it all.

JQ

[Dutched]

Circularref and troisette I agree with JQ’s comment

Not only within their family, but in the community too that mask starts to show cracks, slow but steady…

I am still in contact with some of exw’s family, without exw knowing that. Being cautious about the role they play (in trusting them, so I reveal a minimum about myself) a lot talk is about the past (in exw’s FOO, their pain caused by exw when she dumped all of them, their bond and similarities in my r/s with exw) and vented about the present.

Within the community the story is similar. Exw very active an highly appreciated (I was more ‘the guy married to’), even after she moved to a very nearby village. 

Within 1 yr. (really 1 yr.) people realised that ‘the guy married to’ was during all these yrs. in fact a silent force, the back up, the one who made it possible for her to shine.

Being I a way still associated with ex, people started wondering, got curious and with caution questioned me about ex (fulfilling tasks, deadlines, quality, etc) on which I responded ‘you are describing the woman I knew for many yrs.’.  Not badmouthing at all but saying enough.     

Within 2 yrs. exw gave up several activities as she was more and more excluded in organising.

At the mark of 4 yr., exw’s main event (for about 15 yrs )closed the door. People we socialised with for many yrs left her standing there and as a result exw gave all up.

Now, in a way, ‘desperately’ holding on to a last resort of 'I still belong here too', sometimes attending as just another visitor.