New Here, Looking for Support

[Muradin]

Hello,

I just finished reading "Stop Walking on Eggshells" per the advice of my therapist. I have discovered through reading that I am at least a non-BP, but I'm certain I have many other problems of my own. My wife and I (of about <2 years) have been separated for a little more than 4 months and we have not been communicating for the past 2 months. I left because she threatened to divorce me if we were to continue living together. She said that we needed to "break the cycle". I don't really know what she meant, but since then I have begun to see a very dangerous cycle in her that has led me to realize just how terrified of her I have become. After she talked me into leaving so that we could potentially save the apartment, she proceeded to make plans to move despite my desire not to.

Within a 1 1/2 months of me leaving she found a new 1 bdrm apartment without me. She was angry that I didn't take time off work to help her move, even though I could not have done so on such short notice. When she had me come to see the apartment, my heart sunk in full depression as we had gone from living in an 800 sqft 2 bdrm apt for $1050 per month to a 300 sqft studio for $800 per month and was still expecting me to help with rent. I even bought her a brand new refrigerator for like $300. When i saw how small the apartment was, I became so depressed because I realized there was no room for me there, even though she thought it was just fine.

I have been living on my parent's couch for some time now. We had plans to date on my birthday, back in October, but we got into a massive fight that day. We took a week off and came back together with a Marriage counselor. Where she got in a fight with the counselor while I basically held back tears in the corner. She told me after the session that she wanted to see someone else. I told her I thought we should stick it out another month but she did not like that.

At the time my therapist was getting me to try healthier strategies for dealing with my wife. I feel that I was doing a good job at keeping my cool during our conversations. I began validating, reflective listening, and then speaking my own mind if I was in disagreement with her (which I generally am). These strategies ultimately resulted in her becoming much more angry and demeaning as she would speak with me. She accused me of abusing her emotionally and verbally. While I cannot tell you when I did that, I feel like I have to take responsibility for it.

She keeps heaping demands and stipulations on me and does not take any responsibility for the problems in the marriage except to say that she has enabled me. Her biggest contentions are my struggles with pornography and marijuana. While I thought I had more control over my addictions before the marriage (she was aware of my issues), I have gone back and both have intensified in the past year. I knew she was bipolar and I knew her father was a narcissist, but I was foolish in thinking we could work through those issues. I was not aware that she may suffer from BPD/NPD until the past few weeks in reading the book. My holidays have been pretty awful.

I am too afraid of her to talk to her. I am afraid she will consume me with accusations and ultimatums and lies and I don't know how to defend myself. My therapist has been helping in finding strategies, but ultimately I feel alone. Two months ago she ended the relationship because I talked with our therapist about feeling constantly belittled and demeaned after having a very long conversation with her where she accused me again of being a liar, it is all she believes of me. It wasn't until she ended the relationship that the marriage counselor told me that there may be more to her condition and what she is dealing with. I think he may have realized that she is BP because he contacted my personal therapist who started suggesting "Stop Walking on Eggshells".

However it is like this with most of my friends, new and old, many of which are Christians who tend to hold the belief that it's always the man's fault. Few people believe that she is as bad as I say she is, even though I tend to sugar-coat everything. It feels like there is an assumption that I am the cause of her acting out. Because of this, most people think I need to fight for her. I have to say it is one of the most difficult things to hear a friend telling me to fight to continue being abused.

I miss my wife. I love her so much. I forgive her for everything and I want to help her, but I'm afraid, hurting, scared and don't know what to do. Two weeks ago she sent me an email stating that she will be "... .filing for a divorce after the holidays, unless I have something to say." A divorce is not what I want, but I'm terrified to talk to her. I feel like she added that in, not because she wants me to say something, but because she wants to alleviate her own guilt from filing for divorce.

Anyway. That's my story. I don't know what I'll do, but feel free to ask questions and I'll try to answer in the best way possible. Thank you for reading.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Muradin]

Well I let this sit here a while. Thank you if you have read it. I am specifically looking for support in the form of talking about both of my issues and in-particular, dealing with the deep abiding fear that wells up within me whenever I think of talking with her. If you have a similar situation, or struggle with feeling like you have lost your identity to fear, isolation, or loneliness... .; I would appreciate any help; even if that leads me to a different board. I posted here first due to the nature of my situation. Thanks for your time.

[Eyeamme]

Hi!

You have come to the right place. I just wanted to tell you that others will chime in. This place is a bit nch of people that know what you are going through. I am a mom of uBPD that is 34. I know the kind of treatment received from just trying to love my kid.

Read everything on here. It will help you.

You are being heard 

[DreamerGirl]

Welcome Muradin.  You have come to the right place for support.

When you say you are terrified of her, do you mean physically?

I just wondered if maybe you could work out with your Therapist and send an email expressing your thoughts, without triggering her?

[1minuteatatime]

Eaglesjuju is really a good resource.  She is smart.  I recommend "The high conflict couple".  Also understand that running to the addictions is a sign that you are ignoring problems.  I do it, too.  I know my weak spots.  I found myself having 5 drinks instead of the usual 2.  Etc... . Just understand that being unhealthy solves nothing.  It makes it worse.  For both of you.  

you seem to have a good sense of what you need to do.  the problem is always in the execution.  With all of us.

[Muradin]

Thank you everyone for the responses. It's good to hear that I'm in the right place.

Welcome Muradin.  You have come to the right place for support.

When you say you are terrified of her, do you mean physically?

I just wondered if maybe you could work out with your Therapist and send an email expressing your thoughts, without triggering her?

Not physically, verbally. For some time in the earlier parts of the relationship (especially after we started living together) she would nag for hours and I would end up in the corner of our office with my head in my hands crying and she would still be accusing me and pushing me for "change" etc... .I learned how to acquiesce. However I felt that I couldn't contribute, that my voice would be silenced and that fear ate away at my self-esteem. I would get frustrated and angry out of my own confusion and the feeling of not being respected, which i'm sure just made things worse. Her "pushing" was relentless and I never felt like I could just go out for a few hours to deal with my emotions. Also she was able to work from home and I was often tasked with getting food ready at night after working a full day. Plus the dishes. We had sex rarely and I was always strained from not receiving any physical affection from her. There were times when we would fight where I would just lie down on my side of the bed and cry for 30 - 45 minutes out of confusion and despair. This often made her more angry. Later I learned that she believed I was "playing the victim". She thought I was trying to manipulate her.

I ended up smoking pot in an attempt to ease the fear. I fell back into a fairly reckless pornography addiction as well. The shame circle is more prevalent with the porn. I don't feel ashamed of smoking, but she doesn't like it. It's the whole splitting thing. Also, that was my lie. I tried like 20 times over like 3 months to talk to her about marijuana, but each time she would say things that would push me to fear. I lied to her about mj and I regret that. I didn't lie to her about the porn, but she was extremely hurt when she found the word "teen" associated with it and she started attributing all my actions as lies. That's when she "kicked me out". I say it that way because she gave me an ultimatum that was I had to leave or we would divorce. This was back at the end of August. She spent the week at a friends to give me time to leave. I didn't want to leave, but I thought it would be a very temporary change and at first I had good success with my addictions and I thought I would have more if we worked through our issues. But she was putting a 6 month timeline on everything and she continued to accuse and push me. And I was trying to take full responsibility for everything. I think I was always doing this to some degree.

Anyway, that's what fear looked like. Now I'm afraid to talk to her, even via email, because she is constantly accusing. I'm working slowly on my addictions. It's easier to refrain from these activities when I don't feel pressured into being someone that I don't want to be. I want to help her and protect her and lay down my life for her, but that's just me wanting to take 100% of the responsibility in the relationship rather than 100% of my 50%. Until I read "Stop Walking on Eggshells" I was avoiding taking responsibility at all because I believed I had to take 100% of the responsibility. My relationship with her church has been equally toxic.

She says that I made her lie to her friends at church about my problems. I never did this. So when she decided to "stop enabling me", the things that she told people at church became extremely exaggerated. I tried speaking with the pastor, I confessed all my sins and presented my willingness to change. He said "bull$&!%" to my face. He expressed his anger, disappointment, and asked me why he should consider me as part of the church at all. This was the pastor that married us. Basically my relationship with people at that church has become a source of toxic shame for me.

So ya, considering all this nonsense, I don't feel bad about smoking. I don't like porn, I'm all for working to get rid of that. But what you say is true, I am ignoring problems with addictions. Problem is, i feel like a shell of my former self. I feel like I have no identity and I think I need that first. I picked up another book "Healing the Shame That Binds You" by John Bradshaw and I'm learning about how my shame has become toxic because I feel that I have lost my identity.

Anyway, I want to write her a letter, but I feel restricted when I think about it. My spine tingles, the hairs on the back of my neck rise, and I feel like all I can do is find a corner to cry in.

Thanks again for reading. This really helps, and seeing your responses has really been a blessing. Thank you all again for listening.

[Davy]

Hey Muradin.

I'm new here so I'm not the right person to advice you on how to handle your situation.

However I believe you need to work on yourself first. I am currently in that stage myself.

Fear seems to be the issue here.

I have some anxiety issues myself and I find sports the best way to deal with them.

I like to lift and kickbox to help my selfesteem. The workouts makes you feel better and stronger mentally.

[JohnLove]

Hello Muradin, you don't sound like a "bad" guy but your story is a little one sided. I would like you to share something about the loving times, the good parts about your wife. Don't project what you want onto her. Tell me what is good about her. The parts you respect and admire. What you found attractive.

I am also wondering where in the world you live. I can't find quite the words to describe your church as I am quite alarmed that someone who claims to represent God would undertake such actions on one of his children (you). Knowing this person could well be toxic (and suffering his own severe issues) is awareness and that will help you process any "toxic shame" for exactly what it is.

I know that feeling where friends say well meaning but ultimately very unhelpful suggestions as they don't understand. Be careful of leaning too hard on friends. It can negatively impact those relationships.

Know that you are in the company of people who REALLY understand these situations. I'm glad you found us.

[an0ught]

Hi Muradin,

when overwhelmed with pain we try to cope and if the tools at our disposal are not working then it would not be unreasonable to seek out alternatives. Not all alternatives are healthy. One of the distinguishing aspects that separate pwBPD and nons is that the latter tend to recognize what is not working and also tend to seek then better alternatives. Shame can be a useful signal that something is not right but then it can also get toxic keeping you stuck.

PwBPD quite often suffer from a huge amount of internal shame keeping them stuck. Even worse they tend to project this shame making their loved ones suffer through similar pain.

It is not easy to climb out of this hole as we take in these projections at face value initially and later are too weak to properly protect ourselves. Rebuilding self esteem is a long process  . Part of it is to be more gentle in the judgment of yourself (being less judgmental with others can help here as our mind is not so great in keeping you and me fully apart). So   yourself once in a while.


,

a0

[Muradin]

Hello Muradin, you don't sound like a "bad" guy but your story is a little one sided. I would like you to share something about the loving times, the good parts about your wife. Don't project what you want onto her. Tell me what is good about her. The parts you respect and admire. What you found attractive.

I am also wondering where in the world you live. I can't find quite the words to describe your church as I am quite alarmed that someone who claims to represent God would undertake such actions on one of his children (you). Knowing this person could well be toxic (and suffering his own severe issues) is awareness and that will help you process any "toxic shame" for exactly what it is.

I know that feeling where friends say well meaning but ultimately very unhelpful suggestions as they don't understand. Be careful of leaning too hard on friends. It can negatively impact those relationships.

Know that you are in the company of people who REALLY understand these situations. I'm glad you found us.

LOL... ., I live in Los Angeles County, near the beaches (fairly progressive demographic). The church is this weird mix of progressive fundamentalists. Not everything about them is bad, but the comments from the pastor have been very hurtful to me. Also that was not our first discussion. We tried pastoral counseling with him a few months before the separation. He kept asking me what I thought was the problem in the relationship. I kept telling him that I didn't know. He just got increasingly frustrated with me and suggested we need to see someone else. To this day I have no idea what he was trying to get out of me that day.

Dude, I agree, this is very one-sided. I am sufficiently confused as to her side of things, so I'm just trying to be as honest as possible about my problems, but at the same time being as honest as possible about what I feel has hurt me.

As far as telling you about the loving times and good things... .I don't know. I have a list of questions from SWOE for myself that I'm working through. Part of that is talking about the good things in the relationship. But for some reason I'm having a hard time answering that question, which leads to harder questions like: ":)o I love her or do I just not want to lose someone in my life who made me feel good for a season? Am I avoiding coming to the conclusion that we are toxic and bad for each other because I'm codependent and wanting her affirmation more than actually wanting her (Is there even a difference?)? Do I care more about the idea of marriage as defined by my Christian friends rather than what I actually need in my life both for God and for myself? Where is the line between arguing, bullying, and abuse? Have I been abused? Have I been abusive? Where is the fear coming from? Why did my best friend protest this relationship and then abandon me 2 months before the wedding essentially making me choose between my wife and him? Is she really BP, or am I so non-BP that I'm actually more toxic than she is? Is my being non-BP an indication of who I am in relation to so many controlling people who seem to keep getting frustrated with me and leaving, or are the people in my life really just $$-hats? Am I doing what you suggest, leaning on friends so much that I drive them away? Am I attracted to people who have BP tendencies?"

I mean, I've never been a big people person. I keep quiet and keep to myself most of the time. But I feel like so many people in my life have this need to impose their rules, regulations, dreams, etc... .on my life. I can honestly say that before meeting her I haven't had this problem with people in my life. But then before meeting her I didn't think depression was a diagnosis and I didn't think I'd ever be on 4 meds in one year for said diagnosis. This is EXTREMELY one-sided. But I don't know how else to explain my problems.

[Muradin]

Hi Muradin,

when overwhelmed with pain we try to cope and if the tools at our disposal are not working then it would not be unreasonable to seek out alternatives. Not all alternatives are healthy. One of the distinguishing aspects that separate pwBPD and nons is that the latter tend to recognize what is not working and also tend to seek then better alternatives. Shame can be a useful signal that something is not right but then it can also get toxic keeping you stuck.

PwBPD quite often suffer from a huge amount of internal shame keeping them stuck. Even worse they tend to project this shame making their loved ones suffer through similar pain.

It is not easy to climb out of this hole as we take in these projections at face value initially and later are too weak to properly protect ourselves. Rebuilding self esteem is a long process  . Part of it is to be more gentle in the judgment of yourself (being less judgmental with others can help here as our mind is not so great in keeping you and me fully apart). So   yourself once in a while.


,

a0

You're right, I do feel stuck in my shame. It sounds like you are saying that she has projected her shame onto me to some degree and where that has become toxic, I have become stuck. I think this is very likely.

I'm not good at hugging myself. I don't like myself most days and even less on bad days. I appreciate the sentiment, though I feel like I was beat down a lot. I feel that I was too weak to protect myself from her, and now I feel too weak to break through my own ruminations in my own mind.

Also, I see lots of strange designations on this site like pwBPD and other weird ones. I know BPD, NPD and non-, that's about it. Is there a post that defines these designations?

[an0ught]

Hi Muradin,

Also, I see lots of strange designations on this site like pwBPD and other weird ones. I know BPD, NPD and non-, that's about it. Is there a post that defines these designations?

You may find this Glossary of use: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=26601.0

We prefer to use pwBPD to remind ourselves and others that these are first and foremost People and not a mental condition.