Very difficult to understand what might be going on in wBPD's head

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Very difficult to understand what might be going on in wBPD's head... .their behavious just don't seem congruous with someone who is struggling with a deep fear of rejection / abandonment... .

[Brab]

Very difficult to understand what might be going on in wBPD's head... .their behavious just don't seem congruous with someone who is struggling with a deep fear of rejection / abandonment... .

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[steve195915]

Very difficult to understand what might be going on in wBPD's head... .their behavious just don't seem congruous with someone who is struggling with a deep fear of rejection / abandonment... .

I didn't see the previous threads but I always felt their behaviors were very predictable for someone who is struggling with a deep fear of rejection/abandonment especially if you keep in mind they are emotionally like a child.

They may dump you first as a pre-preemptive strike since they may feel you are going to dump them first  (the childish behavior)

They may look for other options and even cheat since they fear of being abandoned and want another lined up just in case

Also keep in mind they may associate love with being a very painful end so when they get very close to you they need to push you away because they fear the extreme pain they would get from letting themselves go and love you completely 

There's some good paper's out there that explain their behaviors and make a lot of sense if you can put yourself in their dysfunctional emotions sometimes based on imagined things.

 

[babyducks]

BPD is a spectrum disorder.   One size does not fit all and they are all individuals within their own disorder.   Or to say it differently they can express the disorder differently.

steve195915 raised two good examples,  I'll add another.   since there is a very strong component of shame and self loathing in the disorder the fear of rejection and abandonment can look like 'I don't deserve to be loved, in a loving relationship so I will either manipulate the relationship to con you into loving me or browbeat you into loving me'

[Brab]

Thank you both for your posts... .

I'm new to all this and struggling to come to terms with what happened here... .v intense 3 month relationship; idealise, devalue and ice cold discard via text after I said I need some warmth and that I wasn't very happy with how she had been behaving towards me in the last couple weeks of our relationship. All this conveyed in a very calm and kind manner which drew a very sharp and hostile response and dumped by text the next day... .then some frosty correspondence from her and exchange of "stuff" via post and that's it. I did as she asked and never challenged or tried to get her to change her mind. I just responded to everything in a very grown up and loving manner.

I went hard core nc from that point including over the holidays and and ran into her by chance on Monday... .it was very strange encounter to say the least, she didn't want to stop talking to me and was pretty much the same as she was when she first approached me when this all started, I had to break it off but she was outside the venue when I left so I came over gave her a hug and a kiss on the cheek and said it was nice to see her and walked off... .

I feel like I'd like to pull this out of the fire but the only sensible way that I can think of to do this is remain nc for now. I've decided to go to India for a month next week and clear my head a bit and perhaps contact her when I return but perhaps staying nc, just reinforces her decision, which I agree was probably a pre emptive strike to end it before I rejected her... .it's all very confusing really

[babyducks]

It is very confusing.    That is why there this very busy website with people trying to make sense of things.

Push / pull,   I love you go away is very normal in BPD relationships.   When they get emotionally overloaded they will pull back to where they feel comfortable again.   Once they feel comfortable again and return to an emotional baseline then feelings resurface of attraction, attention and warmth and the cycle starts again.

Make sense?

[izabellizima]

this is a great thread because most people on here seem so well-versed on BPD that explaining this concept (which is not simple) seems redundant in other threads.

I recently broke NC and got back with my ex. After 21 days of not seeing her I thought he'd be happy and seek closeness. She was cold, then warm. Now she is cold again and it doesn't do anything for me to bring up the fact that she is being this way.

Do they know what they're doing in terms of push-pull? Is it conscious or not? Is it fixable?

[babyducks]

PwBPD have very intense emotions.   Harmfully intense emotions.  What would annoy you and I makes them painfully angry.    What would make you and I happy makes them ecstatic.

Part two of this equation is that they are convinced that the feeling of the moment is absolutely true and will last forever.

Different people have different levels of self awareness.   Just like we do.

My partner is aware and is careful to avoid extremes of push pull behavior.  It's taken a while and some effort to reach this understanding.

What I can do is avoid contributing, adding fuel to the fire, by not over reacting to her emotional swings.   

Make sense?

[Brab]

I'm pretty sure they don't really know what they're doing... .

There a lot of information out there to educate yourself on this condition but no matter how much you know, it's still baffling... .

I think babyduck provided a very good and simple explanation of the whole push pull phenomena, I think that's what happened with my ex... .

As soon as I let her know I was into her, she started to devalue me (Google idealise, devalue, discard for some good insight) which I'm starting to think is all about "testing". My discard came after I expressed some concerns around her behaviour and emotional distance, all done in a loving and non threatening way really. I just said I needed some "warmth" from her. She went crazy... .said "how old are you?" but that was followed by "I feel like you're always unhappy with me", which I think was closer to her truth. I was getting too close and she believed my rejecting her was imminent, hence she made a pre emptive strike and rejected me and it was ice cold... .

It does all seem to be about fear of rejection and abandonment in ways the uBPD's like us have difficulty understanding.

That was the last week of Nov and when I ran into her earlier this week it was as if nothing had happened. I think she's returned to a baseline as babyducks mentioned... .I'm reasonably sure I could have re engaged at that point but I'm treading very slowly here until I understand what I'm getting myself into. Aside from the business of exchanging stuff, I've been nc since the break up. My general thoughts on this are even though nc is difficult, time is your friend here, if for no other reason than to give you both a bit of perspective and give you back some power and "wholeness"

[steve195915]

this is a great thread because most people on here seem so well-versed on BPD that explaining this concept (which is not simple) seems redundant in other threads.

I recently broke NC and got back with my ex. After 21 days of not seeing her I thought he'd be happy and seek closeness. She was cold, then warm. Now she is cold again and it doesn't do anything for me to bring up the fact that she is being this way.

Do they know what they're doing in terms of push-pull? Is it conscious or not? Is it fixable?

Great questions if they know what they're doing, is it conscious or not, and is it fixable. 

One thing I'm sure of is that no one knows for sure those answers.  Some people think they know exactly what they are doing, that they manipulate on purpose, all of it is just an evil game they play, while other's think that it's the mental illness with irrational thoughts and dysfunctional emotions and they just react to those.  BPD is a spectrum disorder so maybe it's possible for both to be true.

I can only answer for my ex but she does have some level of consciousness of some of her behaviors.  She knows she has a temper and can be very critical with harsh language, she knows she is very jealous and has a problem with trust. She justifies her temper as being just her personality and feels there's nothing wrong with it though it does lead to volatile relationships.  She justifies her jealousy and trust with things that happened in the past and sometimes even imagined things that happened in the present.  She absolutely will not admit she has any real mental issues, and even the suggestion of that would set her off.  I don't believe she really knows what she's doing but just reacts to what she's feeling at the moment and lots of times it's based on complete false illusions. 

Are they fixable?  I have heard that therapy, DBT specifically, can help them manage their condition somewhat but the successes seem to be few and far between.  One person on Youtube that offers services for DBT therapy claims they had BPD and are now fully healed though I do wonder if this is a sales pitch or that they really didn't have BPD or just had very minor traits.

To get this help they will need to admit they have an issue and want to fix it.  Many can't truly admit they have an issue and sometimes just say they need help and go to therapy just to pacify their SO. 

Anyways there are no easy answers, and I don't believe we can ever comprehend what always goes on in the BPD's mind.  What I can never understand is how they can abruptly dump you over nothing and turn so cold, show no remorse, have no pain.  You are left devastated as you felt you were soulmates and meant everything to each other and had so much mutual love.  How they can turn off their feelings like that I will never fathom. 



 

[1minuteatatime]

She absolutely will not admit she has any real mental issues, and even the suggestion of that would set her off.  I don't believe she really knows what she's doing but just reacts to what she's feeling at the moment and lots of times it's based on complete false illusions. 

This and this.  Mine told me at the beginning of the relationship that she was not cray.  I thought it was odd.  One time I told her that she drove me crazy.  She told me that several ex's had said that to her and it disturbed her.  Even the mere mention of her or I being crazy bothers her.  I know I am crazy in some ways.  You can't have 3 schizophrenics in out of 9 siblings without having some cray in the genes.  I can tend to have a "flat" affective mood except around PTSD-holiday time.  everything is a trigger.  Christmas music is the worst. 

I once said "I need a lover that won't drive me crazy" after sex(I was listening to mellencamp) and she asked if I was referring to her.  I wasn't.  Just one of my favorite songs.  Mine doesn't know what she is doing until after.   She's told me.

Why do you think she doesn't know what she is doing when emotional?

Are they fixable?  I have heard that therapy, DBT specifically, can help them manage their condition somewhat but the successes seem to be few and far between.  One person on Youtube that offers services for DBT therapy claims they had BPD and are now fully healed though I do wonder if this is a sales pitch or that they really didn't have BPD or just had very minor traits.

My ex-gf was obviously in some kind of behavioral therapy.  She takes "time outs" at work be going into the server room(it's cold and dark)  The cold cools her hot latin body down to more normal regulation.  She takes 10 minutes usually(according to her)  She said that she would try to do that instead of yell at me when super emotional and thinking that I don't care for her.  She did this 4-5 times while together and the last time was a complete emotional meltdown where she stormed off. I let her run.  She texted me 20 minutes later saying that she already had regretted what was said.

I think DBT/CBT is helpful.  It can train the mind to take a timeout and reflect vs. react.  I don't think it is junk psychology.  I really don't.  I may need some of this, too.  To regulate my reactions to her if she ever comes back.(or for my next mate) My next mate has a 90% chance of being borderline because I am attracting that with my behavior somehow.  My behavior says that I am crazy on some level and will put up with some of this(or that I like it on some level)  Sounds crazy, right?  It isn't.  I am not jealous or super needy.  I cling some in person.  I get lonely.  Super stubborn.  But I have been through a lot in life.  They know this on some level and know that I can handle some weird, irrational behaviors.  Because I do some, too. 

Do you think that behavioral therapy can help?  Do you think that she is "fixable"?  Do you think that she is able to improve?

[steve195915]

The cold cools her hot latin body down to more normal regulation. 

I noticed you said latin.  Mine is Latino, Colombian to be exact. 

[Anez]

I'm throwing up the white flag, Brab, and moving on from her. I wish you the best. Go enjoy India and try not to let her take up too much space in your head.

I'm off to find a stable and fun woman!

[1minuteatatime]

The cold cools her hot latin body down to more normal regulation.  

I noticed you said latin.  Mine is Latino, Colombian to be exact.  

Absolutely.  Firey, hot, latin woman.  She's the boss at work so she had to learn coping strategies.  I have been attracted to them(Latin women) since I was very young.  Some are a challenge, for sure.  I make her angrier when I laugh when she's mad.  Mexican born, American raised.  I think she is the shiii  dizzle!  

We'll see if she gives me another shot. I never validated her.  Frustrating for a normal person, let alone a highly sensitive person.