Do you feel seeing your ex as a monster counter productive?

[honeysuckle]

Im seriously torn here! I am really having a hard time with this.

There were times in my journey where I absolutely thought this guy was the devil and gets off on playing games with people. manipulative and calculating and just a lying cheating selfish pig.

I no longer feel this way, but I felt it was an important part of the process. especially in the anger stage!

Now that Im in a better place i still think what he did was horrible and cruel but I chose to look at the bigger picture as a whole.

I dont see it a a bad thing as long as you are not stuck there.

[fromheeltoheal]

Hey HS-

Anger is a normal and healthy response to abuse and disrespect.  And as the fog clears once we are out of these relationships we can start to look at our ex and the relationship from a more objective, less emotional place, and start to get a handle on how differently someone with a mental illness thinks and how their behaviors affect others; we may be inclined to assign labels like "monster" during that phase because it makes sense to us then.

But after a while, when the ongoing emotional turmoil has stopped because the relationship has ended and our ex is out of our lives, to continue focusing on the ex and their 'issues' can prevent us from looking at our part in all of it, and looking at that part, honestly without bullshtting yourself, is what inspires the growth, with ends up being the gift of the relationship.  And it might be possible to have no issues you want to address, not true in my case, but in any case that thing between you called a relationship happened, with you contributing your part, and that relationship ended, so if the goal is to learn what we can from the proceedings so we don't end up on a detachment and recovery website after a future relationship ends, we might as well let go of the ex, on the way to creating the life of our dreams.

So what exactly are you having a hard time with?

[GreenEyedMonster]

Anger is one of the stages of grief.  It's normal.

Some people here have legitimately encountered people with AsPD and they really are monsters inside.

I think maybe one of the reasons I don't struggle with this as much as other people is because my exBPD was himself the victim of a sociopath.  He described to me at the beginning of the relationship how they look for "supply" and how they "discard" when the supply runs out.  He was so incredibly angry at her for "discarding" him that he ceased seeing her as a human and went as far as to say that she should have no human rights because of her mental illness!  Because of his own BPD, he couldn't look inside and be honest with himself about the mistakes he had made in the relationship -- and there were enough that I could point out more than a few.  Seeing him act this way was enough to keep me from wanting to copy his behavior after he turned the tables and did the same thing to me.  It really would make me just like him in a frightening way.

Sometimes bad things still happen even with no bad people in the equation.  I think some folks on the boards are struggling with codependence, too, and they feel torn between seeing the other person as a monster and wanting to help them.  Maybe it's difficult for them to not go back as long as the other person feels hurt and vulnerable.  I don't empathize much with that because I don't consider myself codependent.

Seeing the other person as a monster can be very disempowering because it puts you at the other person's mercy.  Sure, you did something that seemed like a good idea at the time, but we all do things that don't pan out like we expect.  A relationship with a pwBPD is not really different.  It doesn't have to be someone's fault, and no one has to be blamed.

Personally, I use the Serenity Prayer as my model for healing.  Can I cure my ex of his BPD?  Nope.  Undo the damage of his childhood?  Nope.  Reparent him at the expense of my own happiness?  Nope.  Tolerate being voiceless in a relationship?  Nope.  I tried all those things and it didn't work.  So that means that I've exhausted all possibilities, and from a purely logical standpoint, that means that I've tried my best and it's time to move on.  My closure is that I was probably the best girlfriend he'll ever have, I did my best, and the problems are not mine to fix.

Saying someone is a monster implies that the relationship would have worked if the mask had been real, which is not necessarily true either.

[SybilVane]

I do, I really do.

I'am really work myself to make him 'a good memory'. Everytime I feel this anger, I try to remember his good moments, the moments he was doing something with love (playing the piano, for instance). So I can realize he has a 'soul'

I do this for MYSELF, not because I want to be 'superior' or so. I just choose to retain the good memories and forgive him for the worse ones (i'ts really not easy). My priority s to have peace of mind. Anger, hate, such feelings make US feel worse. I know it's a cliché, but what we need after all is PEACE... .

[honeysuckle]

I am having a hard time with people responding to a post that says an ex BPD is a real piece of crap and they are horrible people with hey look at yourself... .

I think feeling that way IS part of the process and the next step is to realize that they may have done horrible things but it is more complicated then that. Many people come here so distraught and hurt and angry. While in that stage I don't feel the poster should have to be told you know they have a pass because they are ill and you need to fix you. Although this is good advice it should come with a buffer. Like yes! that was horrible. hopefully soon you will see why it happened and what to do next. if this is a place for healing and understanding wouldn't it be better to say I get it but when your done being pissed about that maybe you can see in a more open way. some people do do that. some don't. I feel like you are asking a person crawling to get up and run.

I am all for forgiveness and I have found my way out of the fog. I remember but now understand those emotions. This is why the negative sites do so well. I would rather people come here and get a better perspective on how to work through that hate and injustice feeling and be lulled into a better place.

[Turkish]

I see my Ex as a neglected child by her father, and exoeriencing something like emotional incest by her mother, based upon some conversations we had after she left.

All in all, I look at this like, "how would an adult be if they experienced extreme neglect as a child?"

Raising S5 and D3, I often think, "how different would these kids be if they were neglected? What kind of adults would they turn out to be?" It's a sobering thought experiment for me.

Monster? No. Hurt person who hurts others because that's how she learned to operate to survive? Yes.

[enlighten me]

As others have said I believe it is a part of the process. Almost a necessity in the detachment stage. Easier to detach from a monster than a saint.

Once through the initial stage though it can be a hindrance. We run the risk of holding on to the bitterness and no one want to be around a bitter person. How many of us know someone that is still bitter many years on? I worked with a guy who had a bad relationship and his ex messed him up so much that all women become monsters to him. He wouldn't even speak to women.

[MakingMyWay]

My ex was the victim of an NPD mother so it is difficult for me to label her a monster. Looking at how broken the family is and how much it has affected the children's lives is so heart breaking. The two eldest did the right thing and got out, only coming back when they had kids and felt obligated to let the mother be involved but you could tell they were still struggling.

I wish I had done more to help my ex get away, but we were both just out of highschool. I'd offered to let her stay with my family, but she was scared of the consequences in regards to her mother. But even then the damage was done and she discarded me. I doubt even if I had helped her move out that she would have stayed with me, it felt inevitable.  

[once removed]

I don't feel the poster should have to be told you know they have a pass because they are ill

i dont see anyone saying this. adult human beings are responsible for their actions, period. what do you interpret as a "pass because they are ill"? i have sympathy and compassion for my ex, i dont "pity" her, as shes an adult and responsible for her life and her actions. i dont look at any of her actions toward me or anyone else and say "yeah but, shes mentally ill". theyre not mutually exclusive, though understanding the illness helps me better understand her actions, and depersonalize them. depersonalizing isnt a pass either. behavior not being "personal" doesnt make it "okay".

for what its worth, i called my ex a monster several times during our relationship and to her face. i cringe when i think about it. when i learned about BPD, there were lots of articles and information that i felt were basically telling me i was a sucker, that my relationship and my partner were an illusion and a lie, that i fell for it all, that i was a victim. that did not sit well with me, nor did it feel true. denial? five years later i can conclude i was right. the only thing i "fell for" was me doing the same thing and expecting a different result. my ex loved me as much as she could, and the only way she knew how (i would say this is true for all of us). sadly, it was simply not sustainable. also, quite frankly, my ex is simply not that cunning a person.

theres also a big difference between anger as a healthy, natural stage in detaching, and excessive anger and blaming. and theres a big difference between anger at our very personal and unique experience, and defaming "borderlines" as a whole.

I worked with a guy who had a bad relationship and his ex messed him up so much that all women become monsters to him. He wouldn't even speak to women.

before my ex, i took breakups very badly as i have a lot of sensitivity to rejection and abandonment. generally i got over an ex by convincing myself that they were bad/evil/broken and finding another relationship.

what does that sound like?  

[UserName69]

Im seriously torn here! I am really having a hard time with this.

There were times in my journey where I absolutely thought this guy was the devil and gets off on playing games with people. manipulative and calculating and just a lying cheating selfish pig.

I no longer feel this way, but I felt it was an important part of the process. especially in the anger stage!

Now that Im in a better place i still think what he did was horrible and cruel but I chose to look at the bigger picture as a whole.

I dont see it a a bad thing as long as you are not stuck there.

I'm 9 months in NC and I used to be very angry just like you but as time passes by you won't care too much about it anymore because you're progressing in your healing process. I have neutral feelings for her but I will never love her nor care about her, even if she wanted me back I would never EVER go back to her. I don't want any kind of friendship with a person like that and for me it's very hard to give her the respect she think she deserves.

In my view she is a monster and doesn't care about others because she was a diagnosed pwBPD, she was aware of her illness but instead she blamed everything on other people.

[fromheeltoheal]

Hey HS-

Many people come here so distraught and hurt and angry. While in that stage I don't feel the poster should have to be told you know they have a pass because they are ill and you need to fix you. Although this is good advice it should come with a buffer. Like yes! that was horrible. hopefully soon you will see why it happened and what to do next. if this is a place for healing and understanding wouldn't it be better to say I get it but when your done being pissed about that maybe you can see in a more open way. some people do do that. some don't. I feel like you are asking a person crawling to get up and run.

I understand what you mean, and a lot of that is the nature of an anonymous board where a bunch of people who don't know each other are coming together at different stages and we're only communicating by writing.

If we've been in a totally invalidating relationship and get here, read other people's stories that echo our own, and get the validation we've been dying for, it's natural to jump on the bandwagon with 'my people' and beat up the evil borderline, one scenario.

Another one is practice some projection of our own, especially if we've been projected upon constantly in the relationship, which looks like lashing out at people, a misdirected lashing that is really at our ex, telling folks here 'yeah, that's them, but what about your part?"

And then there's the sane approach, seeing where someone is and giving them what they need at the time, which takes some time and experience to determine, and that person needs to share enough so we can tell what they need.

So bottom line it's a mix, on a free, anonymous website.  There's always private therapy in person locally for folks, recommended a lot here, maybe a higher level of quality treatment than here but not always, buyer beware.  Now that you've gotten clear of your relationship I encourage you to hang around and help, a lot of pain coming out of these relationships, and it's actually an interesting challenge to see where someone is and what they need at that moment and give it to them.  Take care of you!

[enlighten me]

I worked with a guy who had a bad relationship and his ex messed him up so much that all women become monsters to him. He wouldn't even speak to women.

before my ex, i took breakups very badly as i have a lot of sensitivity to rejection and abandonment. generally i got over an ex by convincing myself that they were bad/evil/broken and finding another relationship.

what does that sound like?  

That sounds like normal human nature to me. We so called nons do so many things that people here complain about. Silent treatment, black and white thinking, putting on a brave face etc etc. Its not the domain of PDs its just the extremity of it that separates us.

[GreenEyedMonster]

It is very difficult sometimes to understand mental illness as a disability, but it is.  I think this is one of the points that can be lost on new posters and people fresh out of these relationships.

There is a misconception that a person with a mental illness -- any mental illness, really -- is aware of what normal behavior is, knows how to act normal, and CHOOSES not to.  This is not the case.  The person with mental illness is quite literally UNABLE to act normal.  Many people on this board see mental illness as a character flaw, i.e. that the sick person is a bad person, and that the crux of the problem.  If they would only decide to be good, everything would be fine.  Mental illness is NOT a character flaw, or a lack of self-control.

This misconception tends to lead us to suggest simplistic solutions to people suffering from mental illness.  Imagine walking up to an alcoholic friend and saying, "Why don't you just quit drinking?  That's what I'd do."

Such a statement is ignorant of the complex nature of the disease this person is suffering from.

If I see people making very ignorant statements about the inner life of a mentally ill person, especially treating mental illness as a character flaw, I'm going to say something.  This is not blaming the non or "excusing" the pwBPD.  People with mental illness have real, actual limitations to what they can and cannot realistically accomplish, especially undiagnosed and without the help of a therapist.  Occasionally, as with disorders like AsPD, there's a very complicated relationship between mental illness, character, and integrity.  But with most other disorders, a person's mental illness is not a reflection of their real values or character . . . it is just that, a mental illness.

Some posters here repeatedly insist that pwBPD CAN act normal, they just don't WANT to, and we should get angry with them and shout in their faces and punish them and make them accountable until they just finally realize that they should "act normal."  If that worked, we could fire all the therapists in the country because no one would need them -- all the mentally ill people would have just chosen to get better.

I've suffered from mental illness myself and been bashed for not "just acting normal."  I can tell you firsthand that it is a legitimate disability and not something you can cure just by realizing you have it.

This is not at all intending to blame nons.  We stumbled into relationships with people who can't regulate their own behavior.  If you stayed and you liked that, yeah, I think you need to dig deep and ask yourself why.  But other than that, some of us, I think, were just random collateral damage.

[blackbirdsong]

It is very difficult sometimes to understand mental illness as a disability, but it is.  I think this is one of the points that can be lost on new posters and people fresh out of these relationships.

There is a misconception that a person with a mental illness -- any mental illness, really -- is aware of what normal behavior is, knows how to act normal, and CHOOSES not to.  This is not the case.  The person with mental illness is quite literally UNABLE to act normal.  Many people on this board see mental illness as a character flaw, i.e. that the sick person is a bad person, and that the crux of the problem.  If they would only decide to be good, everything would be fine.  Mental illness is NOT a character flaw, or a lack of self-control.

This misconception tends to lead us to suggest simplistic solutions to people suffering from mental illness.  Imagine walking up to an alcoholic friend and saying, "Why don't you just quit drinking?  That's what I'd do."

Such a statement is ignorant of the complex nature of the disease this person is suffering from.

If I see people making very ignorant statements about the inner life of a mentally ill person, especially treating mental illness as a character flaw, I'm going to say something.  This is not blaming the non or "excusing" the pwBPD.  People with mental illness have real, actual limitations to what they can and cannot realistically accomplish, especially undiagnosed and without the help of a therapist.  Occasionally, as with disorders like AsPD, there's a very complicated relationship between mental illness, character, and integrity.  But with most other disorders, a person's mental illness is not a reflection of their real values or character . . . it is just that, a mental illness.

Some posters here repeatedly insist that pwBPD CAN act normal, they just don't WANT to, and we should get angry with them and shout in their faces and punish them and make them accountable until they just finally realize that they should "act normal."  If that worked, we could fire all the therapists in the country because no one would need them -- all the mentally ill people would have just chosen to get better.

I've suffered from mental illness myself and been bashed for not "just acting normal."  I can tell you firsthand that it is a legitimate disability and not something you can cure just by realizing you have it.

This is not at all intending to blame nons.  We stumbled into relationships with people who can't regulate their own behavior.  If you stayed and you liked that, yeah, I think you need to dig deep and ask yourself why.  But other than that, some of us, I think, were just random collateral damage.

I totally agree with this. 100000% Every word.

But now, when I realized this it makes a recovery process a bit harder, from different perspective. Now I know that she is in therapy, and she is working on this. And I feel extreme saddness. I know that she loved me the best she could. Maybe even more than I loved her. Who knows, at the end it is irrelevaant. You cannot 'measure' the love.

Like I said, now I am fighting with different demons. I know she is fighting with this and I left her. Would you leave your GF if she has a cancer? I don't want to think about myself as the person who would do that.

Yes it is hard, the bad things and rages (from both sides!) occured. She has almost all symptoms of BPD, I didn't notice self-harming (well, at least explicit as we all know it, like cutting). But therapy is a sign that she is trying. I didn't understand the essence of BPD while I was in a relationship. To be honest and don't want to insult nobody here but I think a lot of people here don't understand what are they going through. I know, we can't fix it but we shouldn't also consider them as monsters/sharks/vampires/bad just because we don't understand the disorder. We are looking only one side of the story. Our side.

Yesterday I went to other forum, BPD forum and read stories and confessions of BPD persons, especially the ones that tackle relationship stories. I cried. I really did, it is maybe funny to you who consider them as monsters. I know how BPD made me feel bad, how it influenced me and my feelings. But it think it has to be a living hell to live with BPD every day, every hour and every second of your life. It is just so sad.

And like I sad, we all know 3c (cause, control, cure), but it is really hard to know that someone I still care about is going through this and I cannot help because it burned me while I was trying to help. Doing my best but it wasn't enough.

[GreenEyedMonster]

blackbirdsong, I have total empathy for what my exBPD is going through, and I recognize him as a human just like me who is struggling.

I also recognize him as a person who is untrustworthy in his delusions, and who would do anything to make me go away when I am stressing him out.  This includes, from what he has told me, putting me in prison or wrecking my career.

I can empathize with him without sticking my head back in the guillotine.

Put your own oxygen mask on first.  You can be a kind and supportive person without putting yourself on the front lines.

[blackbirdsong]

I also recognize him as a person who is untrustworthy in his delusions, and who would do anything to make me go away when I am stressing him out.  This includes, from what he has told me, putting me in prison or wrecking my career.

Yes, but I didn't experience this type of extreme behaviors (prison, career)

It was just emotionally too intense. And also, this was my first serious relationship so it was a big jump from being alone to being almost every day with BPDp.

I know, because of this acceptance of BPD I am now in the phase that I am trying to find reasons to try again.

And I agree, we need to put our own mask first. I started therapy and rejected her attempt to meet and talk because I considered that I am too emotionally messed up to go through this.

Back to the topic: I also went through different stages of recovery and who knows how many of them are still waiting on this path. But my current feelings say to me that representing them as monsters will do only short-term feeling of recovery to you. I believe they are not monsters, and when you think that you are recovered and you realize this everything will collapse and you will need to start over, maybe even more confused. Been there... .

[Rmbrworst]

For me, its easier to move on thinking . . . I love him, and care for him . . . but he's ill and I was not successful in helping him.  Hopefully someone guides him to help, or he guides himself . . . but it's not my responsibility.

I've been repeating that message to myself.  It was at first painful . . . but now it tends to comfort me.   

I'm sure we will all deal with this differently.

However, for me . . . I think forgiving and understanding will empower us.  I think if we make them the "evil" person in the relationship . . . we may be losing out on something.  I feel like we may be missing the opportunity to learn something.  If I take the "easy" way out, and just villify him . . .then I've learned nothing. 

If I try to understand and learn . . . then I've gained something from this terrible loss.

However, this is just my point of view.  For me,  I do not see him as a monster, but a lost soul, and my heart aches for him.  My life will be unhappy for a little while longer, but his life is truly harrowing . . . I would not wish this disorder on my worst enemy. 

To hurt who you love so you can avoid pain is just . . . wow.  It hurts to think what goes on in their heads.

[homefree]

In some ways I feel that I hate her parents for raising her in a way that caused the attachment issues she has. But I can't really know what their role in it was.

And even if they caused it and somehow I could magic the problem away from her childhood, it probably would mean that I would never have met her or the relationship would never have happened anyway.

It's all pointless because it's all over and done with at this point. Sure I wish things were different but that doesn't make a lick of difference to how things actually are.

I think viewing her as a monster is a way of understanding their behavior, but I don't think it's actually accurate.

We don't know what they think. My trust of her is so far shot that anything she would say at this point would be suspect. All we have are their words and actions. Actions are more telling. And regardless of the reasoning or causes behind these actions, they are damaging to us. Nothing we ever said or did changed these actions. So getting away from it is a reasonable response. Understanding the motivation would be great, but in the end, all that matters is taking care of ourselves. Seeing that we take action that prevents us from being further damaged by them.

You could see them as monsters, or as the victim pawns of a merciless illness. You can hate them or love them. Or both. In the end I think the goal is to stop thinking about them with strong emotions either way.

[MakingMyWay]

It is very difficult sometimes to understand mental illness as a disability, but it is.  I think this is one of the points that can be lost on new posters and people fresh out of these relationships.

There is a misconception that a person with a mental illness -- any mental illness, really -- is aware of what normal behavior is, knows how to act normal, and CHOOSES not to.  This is not the case.  The person with mental illness is quite literally UNABLE to act normal.  Many people on this board see mental illness as a character flaw, i.e. that the sick person is a bad person, and that the crux of the problem.  If they would only decide to be good, everything would be fine.  Mental illness is NOT a character flaw, or a lack of self-control.

.

This is a very important point to make. It pays to separate the mental illness from the person. Its part of why I wish my ex was diagnosed, but even then I knew there was a lot of trauma present and should have acted differently than how I did.