I wanted a man. I got a boy.

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

The title of this thread sounds like a country song. I find myself in an interesting place, now that I've been learning more about BPD, having done some reading and participating on BPD family for the last year. The dysregulations don't happen nearly as often and when they do, they tend to be minor. I've realized how invalidating I can be and that's largely due to the fact that I'm a Thinker and my husband is a Feeler. I'm catching myself when I try to use my logic instead of validating his emotions. Really everything is mostly good.

So why am I starting this thread? It's because I feel so unsupported. I realize that I have little to complain about. Things are good. He supports me financially. But what's missing is the feeling that he doesn't really have my back. Yes, if it's some crisis, I know I can count on him.

I'm strong and very self-sufficient. However there are times when I'd like to be the weak one, the needy one, the sad one, the upset one--and know that I had a sympathetic ear and a shoulder to maybe not cry on, but to lean on. I don't feel that way. Part of my problem is that I don't respect him, now that I can see beyond the veneer he presented at the beginning of our relationship. I feel that he is like a petulant child, very selfish and self absorbed, always looking for approval. It's truly exhausting to be around him sometimes.

How about those of you who are making lemonade out of lemons and are enjoying your relationship with your pwBPD. How do you do it?

[Cat Familiar]

The title of this thread sounds like a country song. I find myself in an interesting place, now that I've been learning more about BPD, having done some reading and participating on BPD family for the last year. The dysregulations don't happen nearly as often and when they do, they tend to be minor. I've realized how invalidating I can be and that's largely due to the fact that I'm a Thinker and my husband is a Feeler. I'm catching myself when I try to use my logic instead of validating his emotions. Really everything is mostly good.

So why am I starting this thread? It's because I feel so unsupported. I realize that I have little to complain about. Things are good. He supports me financially. But what's missing is the feeling that he doesn't really have my back. Yes, if it's some crisis, I know I can count on him.

I'm strong and very self-sufficient. However there are times when I'd like to be the weak one, the needy one, the sad one, the upset one--and know that I had a sympathetic ear and a shoulder to maybe not cry on, but to lean on. I don't feel that way. Part of my problem is that I don't respect him, now that I can see beyond the veneer he presented at the beginning of our relationship. I feel that he is like a petulant child, very selfish and self absorbed, always looking for approval. It's truly exhausting to be around him sometimes.

How about those of you who are making lemonade out of lemons and are enjoying your relationship with your pwBPD. How do you do it?

[Grey Kitty]

My wife had higher functioning (as far as emotional support goes, at least) than your H. I was able to get that on rare occasions I needed it. Then as the decades wore on and the abusive BPD crap started escalating, I was finding myself needing support over how she was treating me, and that going to her for that worked very very badly (surprise, surprise!)

I started building up a bit of a support network for myself--people I could call on to support me when I was feeling weak or lonely or whatever... .besides my wife.

My wife did get better for a while. I was able to get some support from her at times. Then she left, and fortunately, I still had that team to go to. It has been over a year. I've still got people I can go to. People who I'm not in a romantic relationship with. Someday soon I'll be dating, and probably in a romantic relationship. However that goes, I'm going to keep the close friends I've got. Be there for them. Have somebody to call on when I need them there for me.

Building that team took a lot of energy, and a good bit of risk as well. (You have to decide to be vulnerable with somebody at a new level you've never done before... .so obviously they haven't had a chance to prove they are trustworthy at that level yet!)

[Cat Familiar]

Fortunately I've got a few girlfriends with whom I can share anything and get that kind of support. I guess it's too much to ask from a BPD spouse. It seems like I transited through the grieving process some months ago, but now I'm realizing how truly limited a relationship with a pwBPD is. I'm OK, just disappointed.

Grey Kitty, I wish you well on your dating journeys. You've got a lot to offer some lucky woman! 

[sweetheart]

It seems like I transited through the grieving process some months ago, but now I'm realizing how truly limited a relationship with a pwBPD is. I'm OK, just disappointed.

I don't really have anything to add Cat, but your thread caught my eye because it resonated soo much for me. I can relate to feeling disappointed, and I also feel sad that we got through all the madness, dysregulations and chaos, came out the other side all intact, but my how our relationship has changed. How my h has changed.

I often think about delayed emotional development, my husband is like a teenager of 14/15 yrs  .

I'm not entirely sure where I'm at with things at the moment, I am holding on to a lot of confusion. So much so I might actually post a thread 

[Euler2718]

So why am I starting this thread? It's because I feel so unsupported. I realize that I have little to complain about. Things are good. He supports me financially. But what's missing is the feeling that he doesn't really have my back. Yes, if it's some crisis, I know I can count on him.

Maybe you feel unsupported because you're unsupported. I can remember someone at work asked my ex if I was her boyfriend now, and the ex said yes, and the other girl rolled her eyes -- this was a problem for exBPDgf, I think she actually doubted our relationship on this grounds -- so the non-verbal opinion of one casual acquaintance had the power to destabilize us!

The little boy in me that needed healing -- sometimes with the push/pull, I would want someone to hold me -- it was going to be the worst thing for him to come back out hoping for love and finding abandonment -- so he had to stay inside, find healing some other way, or just stay the same.

Maybe you can get emotional support when you need it from other (non-romantic) sources. What did you do before you were with him? I'm thinking other women, maybe church groups, who knows? This works pitifully, I'm afraid, since I'm an introvert and a man, and who wants to discuss feelings? Not other men. Worse, when we were together, other girls were out of bounds -- now I do have a non-romantic girl I can talk to if I want.

I realized my ex was no good at most things like this so she liked simpler roles -- she carried chapstick around for me and cut my fingernails sometimes, it was a way of being a girlfriend that she could do. Loving me when she was hating me wasn't something she could do.

[Cat Familiar]

It's really tragic how much we want to love our partners and how difficult they make our lives. I know I'm no picnic either but BPD saps so much energy that could be put to use in so more productive and loving ways.

In retrospect, I'm realizing what drew me to both my BPD husbands at the beginning. It was a childlike innocence and wonder. They both seemed so sweet and learning more of their stories, they had been victimized by unkind people. 

I wanted to make it all better for them. Here I fell in love with boys and wanted them to be men.      Now I realize what you see is what you get.

[Notwendy]

Things are good. He supports me financially. But what's missing is the feeling that he doesn't really have my back. Yes, if it's some crisis, I know I can count on him.




I don't know how your H was raised, but this is huge. I think for men who were raised traditionally, supporting the family is the biggest act of love they know.

My H grew up with this model. A man supports his family. He didn't grow up thinking there was much more than that because I don't think he saw it. His mother got her emotional needs through friends. FIL had his work buddies.

It shouldn't be a surprise that my marriage is similar to this, because it is the arrangement that works with the least conflict between us. Trying to have an emotional discussion for the purpose of support with my H feels like- as WW said- pulling teeth without anesthesia. Painful for both of us.

One of the first books I read was Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus, which discusses how, even from childhood, the way women and men see "talking" is different. If my FIL was my H's male role model, and MIL talked only with her female friends, then my H would only think that this kind of talking is for women, and that men don't do it.

I also recognize that his supporting us is huge, really. It is his way of showing love and caring.

For me, it is appreciating what he does for us, and not focusing on something he isn't inclined to do. To not think it is wrong for us to be the way we are, and to be OK with reaching out to female friends to talk if I want to.

[Grey Kitty]

Fortunately I've got a few girlfriends with whom I can share anything and get that kind of support. I guess it's too much to ask from a BPD spouse. It seems like I transited through the grieving process some months ago, but now I'm realizing how truly limited a relationship with a pwBPD is. I'm OK, just disappointed.

Radical acceptance isn't easy. And you keep on finding more layers of it to dig out and deal with. 

Grey Kitty, I wish you well on your dating journeys. You've got a lot to offer some lucky woman! 

(Where is that blushing smiley?  ) Flattery can get you places... .Thanks! I'll remember that when the woman I'm really excited for rejects me in an online dating app or something! 

In retrospect, I'm realizing what drew me to both my BPD husbands at the beginning. It was a childlike innocence and wonder. They both seemed so sweet and learning more of their stories, they had been victimized by unkind people. 

I wanted to make it all better for them. Here I fell in love with boys and wanted them to be men.      Now I realize what you see is what you get.

I know you are committed to making the best of what you've got now, and you are doing a fantastic job of it too, from what you describe.

I'd like to add that the more you work on and confront the difficult stuff inside you, your dubious choices in the past, etc., etc., etc. You know... .all that hard personal growth work... .the easier it becomes to deal with your H in healthy ways, and the more natural it is not to to engage with his unhealthy digs/pulls/pushes/games/whatever.

And I do believe that ever-so-slowly, he will realize that he's not getting what he needs out of the unhealthy ways of interacting with you, and will start trying different things, and find a little improvement on his own. In other words when you let go of trying to fix him, he will have more room to do just that. It happened with my wife. I've seen it happen with other friends and their (often former) partners as well.

[Cat Familiar]

Radical acceptance isn't easy. And you keep on finding more layers of it to dig out and deal with.  

I'd like to add that the more you work on and confront the difficult stuff inside you, your dubious choices in the past, etc., etc., etc. You know... .all that hard personal growth work... .the easier it becomes to deal with your H in healthy ways, and the more natural it is not to to engage with his unhealthy digs/pulls/pushes/games/whatever.

And I do believe that ever-so-slowly, he will realize that he's not getting what he needs out of the unhealthy ways of interacting with you, and will start trying different things, and find a little improvement on his own. In other words when you let go of trying to fix him, he will have more room to do just that. It happened with my wife. I've seen it happen with other friends and their (often former) partners as well.

Thanks, GK, for your wisdom and kind words. Yes, radical acceptance is like peeling an onion. Just when I get to a more comfortable place, I realize there's a lot more of my baggage to handle, to mix metaphors.

And you're right, things are improving. I attribute that to both of us having individual counseling, posting here, and my desire to be ruthlessly self-examining, as opposed to self-critical. I've been putting myself under the microscope instead of him lately.     And of course, having a sense of humor and laughing at myself certainly helps.

[mazes]

I feel the same way.  Having a 6 year old daughter has provided me with so much insight into this and also a fair amount of laughter.  My daughter doesn't alway like to pick up her toys, I tell her, "I didn't ask you to like it, I asked you to do it."  Husband doesn't like to pick up his messes, I tell him, "I didn't ask you to like it, I asked you to do it." 

My husband is super critical with absolutely everybody, daugher included.  I have tried to talk to him about this on numerous occassions but he always had 100 excuses for every example.  Anway, one morning my daughter criticized my husband about the order in which he was packing her school bag.  And my husband says to her, "You shouldn't be so critical of people, if you criticize people too much you wont have any friends."  I heard this from the kitchen and I was laughing soo hard.  My husband looked at me with this confused look on his face, he could not figure out what I thought was so funny.  There are many more ways in which he acts just like his 6 year old daughter.  It has really helped me to realize that he is emotionally stunted, and I am much better at being in my emotionally detached state and not taking things personally any more.  I find I mostly pity him. 

But the hard part is that yes, once inawhile I am tired, just need a physical, emotional, mental break, but I can never have one because my husband has never and will never have my back, even for a day.  He is a stay at home dad who does absolutely no housework, but that is more than he can handle and I have in a way come to accept that for, now at least.

[waverider]

I think it comes from the disillusionment that you feel when you truly accept that you can't fix him, that you may be able move away from conflict but the raw material within him is simply not capable of being build into what you would consider a "full and complete person'.

It is hard to sustain pride and respect in the pwBPD.

This is why it is a disability and not just a temporary impairment.

[Cole]

I feel that he is like a petulant child, very selfish and self absorbed, always looking for approval. It's truly exhausting to be around him sometimes.

How about those of you who are making lemonade out of lemons and are enjoying your relationship with your pwBPD. How do you do it?

I feel this way often, as well.

What attracted me to my wife was her free spirit and how playful and fun she can be. But with the responsibilities of marriage and and kids I realized she can be more childish than child-like, if that makes sense.

I think I have mentioned before that our friends refer to us as "Spock & Lucille Ball". My lemon is she can be very irresponsible and PETULANT at times. What a fitting adjective for pwBPD. But the lemonade is she sometimes reminds me that life does not always have to be so serious.      

[teapay]

I sometimes get frustrated at my kids because they are acting like their mom.

[foggydew]

Cat Familiar, I really like the comparison to peeling an onion. Somehow, my relationship to my BPD person feels exactly like this. Each layer has something different, and my eyes often water from the fumes produced - sometimes, through sadness at his attempts to be the person he would like to be, and the realisation that he probably won't manage it.  These days that is the predominant feeling, as he is really trying hard and has made great strides. But always there is the realisation that each onion layer has only a certain thickness -and that the next layer may be completely different. Or not. I just like him, love him for what he is, little boy trying to be adult, damaged person trying to make sense of the world, moody adolescent retreating into himself, man trying to be manly and not really knowing how. No, direct emotional support there is not, but I do see how he tries. And I find it a real, true disability. But we don't know that when we begin. We think there can be a real partnership, and, unfortunately, for many this is not possible.

[waverider]

.

What attracted me to my wife was her free spirit and how playful and fun she can be. But with the responsibilities of marriage and and kids I realized she can be more childish than child-like, if that makes sense.

     

Some people never loose their sense of play, whilst some get stuck in it and sulk if they can't have their bad and ball.

I am the former and my wife is the latter, this is the playground where we first met bonded. I was visiting for R & R, while she is a resident.

[waverider]

I sometimes get frustrated at my kids because they are acting like their mom.

Funny you should say that I visited my 21 year old daughter last night and the place she is living in is looking like a filthy slum and i accused her of being as bad as her step mum. She was horrified, and got the message.

[Notwendy]

I understand the feeling of someone not having my back- on an emotional level. I don't want to sound ungrateful, as I think there is way more good to the relationship. But I know that I can not let myself get upset or turn to him. My emotions get him upset. It's almost as - if I do turn to him for emotional support, it achieves the opposite- more stress.

Even if the stress has nothing to do with him, he perceives it as me "withdrawing" from him and that means rejection. Then we are both stressed. I first experienced this ( not knowing) when I was pregnant and not feeling up to my usual self. I had visions ( I guess from TV) of husbands being so careful with their wives- letting them rest, getting them something to eat. But that didn't happen. In fact, he was angry most of the time because he saw my fatigue as not caring about him.

It can feel really lonely sometimes. But compared to my mother, it is nothing like it. As Cat said, I didn't see it, not for the longest time and thought it was my fault. He would blame me for causing trouble in the relationship as I would get emotional. I am not Spock but I have learned to be less emotional, more Spock like at home. I can get emotional with friends.  

[HurtinNW]

Thank you for posting this. I am going through something very similar, and don't know how to articulate it.

I think it is grief.

I am struggling so hard with radical acceptance. Honestly, it was easier to stay in anger and resentment. But can I accept that my boyfriend might forever be a boy-child? That my own kids—who have had their share of hardships—are more mature?

I am grieving not just the loss of my hopes in this man, but my own hopes of what I wanted in a relationship. I am reminding myself, as my good friend says, "make a decision for today." I'm not deciding yet on forever.

[waverider]

I think it is grief.

It is, layered with guilt that you let it happened, and the guilt of what you think it may take to hit the reset button.

[Cat Familiar]

Good discussion. Thanks everyone!

This morning I had a conversation with a friend who is very worried about her younger brother's heart condition and methamphetamine use. She's appalled by his drug use and seeking to understand it, asked a young man, a former meth user, what the attraction to that drug is. He told her that when he used, he felt like he could do anything.

I started thinking about my ex-husband, who was undoubtedly BPD/NPD and possibly ASPD. He became very unhinged after I broke up with him and he got together with his next girlfriend. People told me about his unusual behavior and lack of hygiene and during the divorce, I observed that as well. One day he told me he was going to pay off all his credit cards, including a joint credit card with me that he had maxed out, by writing a screenplay and selling it for a half million dollars. Then he told me he was going to rebuild a 1940 Packard automobile and drive it to the Academy Awards to pick up his award and then later to the Grammys because his musician girlfriend was going to win a Grammy. (He never wrote a screenplay before, nor had he rebuilt a car. His girlfriend was an occasional lounge singer.)

As one can imagine, I was absolutely stunned that he would seriously think this. At that moment I wondered if he'd always been crazy and somehow I never noticed until then. Or if the crazy suddenly came on and I was witnessing a psychotic break.

It wasn't until years later that I entertained the idea that he might have been using meth. And today when I heard what my friend reported, it all became clear that my hypothesis was probably correct.

So, in comparison, my current marriage partner looks very benign. It's nice to have a bit of perspective. Sometimes being in the trenches with a pwBPD is so exhausting. I'm learning how not to let it get me down. Having a sense of humor certainly helps.

[Cat Familiar]

I think it comes from the disillusionment that you feel when you truly accept that you can't fix him, that you may be able move away from conflict but the raw material within him is simply not capable of being build into what you would consider a "full and complete person'.

It is hard to sustain pride and respect in the pwBPD.

This is why it is a disability and not just a temporary impairment.

OK, he's grumpy today and without caffeine, his usual volume of alcohol, and that he's run out of sleeping pills--I get the reasons why. Still it's not pleasant to be around him. So ironic that Quality Time is his love language. He expects that I should want to spend time with him when he's a pain in the neck. It's really amazing how little self-reflectiveness pwBPD seem to have and very little understanding of logical consequences.

[Notwendy]

Cat, like you, I feel I don't have a lot to complain about and although this thread is on undecided neither of us is in that mindset. Still I get the frustration over the moods. I had a discussion about plane tickets with my h - about how leaving on a different day would be less expensive. It was just an idea. It led to an argument over changing his schedule and this and that. By the time he was done, I thought this sure wasn't worth the few dollars of savings.

My former response would have been to feel hurt - I was only trying to be helpful. I would have JADED to try to get him to see that, but that would have been taking the bait onto a circular argument. These are not things that I would question a relationship over,but a reminder that he processed information differently - or he just likes to argue and be right- instead of acknowledging my suggestion. I just let these things go but sometimes I want to shake him to wake him up to the bigger picture and I can't do that.

[Cat Familiar]

Notwendy, the frustrating thing is that if somebody else were to mention the cost savings for leaving on a different day, he might have entertained that notion, or at least have been pleasant about rejecting that option. With their spouses, they don't seem to care about being polite and considerate.

Today I did a couple of nice things for my husband where not even an acknowlegement nor a thank you was given. I'm not looking for praise, but I noted that if somebody spent a half hour doing something which only benefited me and then later gave me something which I had asked for previously, there's no way I wouldn't have said "thank you." It's just common courtesy.

I find that rather shocking, especially since he jumps through hoops trying to please strangers. I didn't want to mention it because inevitably he would say, "You always criticize me."

[waverider]

I didn't want to mention it because inevitably he would say, "You always criticize me."

This is because he knows you see through him and is expecting you to be critical. In his mind it is more effort effective to  impress someone who doesn't know him so well. You are a harder sell, and potentially no new benefit from doing so.

[Notwendy]

My H can hear my comments as critical. If I make a statement like " If we leave on a different day, the tickets are less expensive" as " you idiot, you picked an expensive ticket". Now, that thought was not something I even considered, when I said it. It was simply an idea to consider.

I can understand not being motivated to be polite with someone who knows you that well. In that sense, we all let our hair down a bit. I don't wear sweatpants to work, but I do when hanging around the house. I think it helps to not take these incidents personally. Can you imagine having to be putting on your best all the time- if it takes a lot of effort? I think home is where they can relax.

So, the best response I know of to things like this is to not react ( I don't mean not having boundaries for big things) to their reactions, even if it is irritating. That's like gasoline on fire. Many times, these things pass over if I don't pay attention to them. But it is aggravating. I don't deny that.

[Euler2718]

I can understand not being motivated to be polite with someone who knows you that well. In that sense, we all let our hair down a bit.

First, ha! I think you're validating the BPD even though it's by proxy. Mine left, since then I've read lots and want to practice all these behaviors (validating, for example) -- there's no one to "practice on", so to speak -- my current world is devoid of most emotion and we're mostly men and limit our topics to the material plane (we don't discuss our feelings).

It's good that validating is like second nature, I hope to get there. It's not for her, necessarily, I think it's good for anyone in my life, they don't need BPD for it to be a good thing.

The thing I wanted to add about your comment is in this book on attachment styles the "avoidant" attachment style generally regards you as a "threat" if you are in their "inner circle" -- you're too close and need to be pushed back or eliminated. So the behavior manifests itself as: the avoidant is mean to the person inside the circle of trust, but not the more casual relationships.

It (the book title is something like "Attached" goes on to say, that, if you're in the circle of trust with someone like this, you're "sleeping with the enemy", and to avoid this type of relationship if at all possible.

Very similar conceptually to a r/s with a BPD that's experiencing fear of engulfment/abandonment.

[Cat Familiar]

I didn't want to mention it because inevitably he would say, "You always criticize me."

This is because he knows you see through him and is expecting you to be critical. In his mind it is more effort effective to  impress someone who doesn't know him so well. You are a harder sell, and potentially no new benefit from doing so.

So true. I find it amusing when he tells me a story about some acquaintance, like a person who works at the local sandwich shop, and this person has said something nice about him. It's funny and it's sad that his self esteem is so brittle that he basks in appreciation from someone to whom he has consistently given big tips. (I used to work in restaurants. I know how it works. You always are very welcoming to the big tippers.)

[Cat Familiar]

My H can hear my comments as critical. If I make a statement like " If we leave on a different day, the tickets are less expensive" as " you idiot, you picked an expensive ticket". Now, that thought was not something I even considered, when I said it. It was simply an idea to consider.

I can understand not being motivated to be polite with someone who knows you that well. In that sense, we all let our hair down a bit. I don't wear sweatpants to work, but I do when hanging around the house. I think it helps to not take these incidents personally. Can you imagine having to be putting on your best all the time- if it takes a lot of effort? I think home is where they can relax.

So, the best response I know of to things like this is to not react ( I don't mean not having boundaries for big things) to their reactions, even if it is irritating. That's like gasoline on fire. Many times, these things pass over if I don't pay attention to them. But it is aggravating. I don't deny that.

It's a slippery slope, Notwendy. If we're not polite and kind to those who love us, why even be in a relationship? I agree we don't need to be formal and it's good to have a place where we can feel relaxed, but lack of appreciation and the sense of entitlement really wears down loving feelings. Before I knew about BPD I tried to make my husband aware of this and it totally backfired because he only saw it as criticism. However, I know that things will ultimately get worse if I go along with status quo. I'm enough of a fiery personality that I'll need to say or do something at a certain point and I don't want to do that when I'm at my wits end with frustration.

Currently I'm not picking up after him, unless things get in my way, so he can see the messes he leaves. He finally emptied the recycling bin after over a week. Now I'm looking at the empty tuna can, soda bottle and cracker box that he left on the kitchen counter and guessing how many days they will stay there. I'm making it a form of entertainment for me. I've written down "Tuesday" on a notepad. If I "win" (meaning it lasts as long as Tuesday) I'll buy myself something on Zappos. It sounds really nit-picky when I write this, but to me it's emblematic about how much I do and how little he appreciates it. He knows how important it is for me to live in a relatively tidy space and that I really appreciate when he is accountable to be responsible for cleaning up the messes he makes. So in love language terms, this behavior equates to a big "F* you" in my world. I know he doesn't see it that way.

Now to look at it from his perspective, my husband "sorts" comments from me for "criticism" even when there's none. It's impossible to disprove a negative and so frustrating to be accused of something I'm not doing. The irony, of course, is that I will start feeling critical of him when he does that. It's a self-fulfilling prophesy.  

[Notwendy]

I get the slippery slope, but from my own experience is that saying anything can escalate it. It seems he has to have the last word, so whatever I say is likely to get a snappy response, until I stop, and he gets the last one in. Lately, I have chosen to just disengage. This helps me compose myself, but also has the effect of not giving this any attention.

Tim, I do think I am perceived as a threat. Seems strange to me as I don't think I am a threatening person, but I am the closest person to him. Another conversation we had was over what box to mail something in. I suggested a smaller one- it would have been fine, but he proposed another idea. Honestly, I could care less. These kinds of discussions though make any kind of plans complicated if every point has to be discussed. I think his idea was good, but he could have also just let me do it the way I proposed. It feels as if when I make a point, there has to be a counterpoint.

I have done a lot of work on co-dependency. Prior to this, I just let him do things his way- we bought the furniture he liked best, went where he wanted to go, did things his way. Some of this is co-dependency, but also, I'm kind of a chill person. If something is important to me, then I will stand up for it, but for other things- choosing a plane ticket, mailing something- there isn't one way that is right and really, I don't care that much to have a circular discussion- which is what these things can lead to. For something important enough, I will push the point and not back down. That is perceived as a threat.

[Cat Familiar]

Notwendy, I think those sorts of conversations, like choosing a box, stem from insecurity. My husband often roped me into these sorts of discussions, but now I don't participate. I just say something like "I'm sure you've figured out the best option."

Similarly, he chronically "loses" things because of the chaos he lives in (in his man cave). I would hear those complaints and I'd rush to help him search and usually the object would be in plain sight, but not obvious because of all the clutter. Now I say, "I'm sorry. I'll bet you find it."

I see these sorts of pleas for my participation as him feeling helpless and wanting to be rescued. And sure enough, if I play into it, then he will accuse me later of judging him and thinking that I'm "so perfect." It's the Karpmann Triangle (without needing a third party--or maybe the object is the third party).