Tense Monday morning after a good weekend

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=289770.60;topicseen

Link above is to catch anyone up that is late to this lovely party.

Went to check out a church yesterday as a family.  Went ok.  Things seemed "normal" until it was bedtime for the kids.

I "caught" my wife taking a shower in the kids bathroom (upstairs).  Was working on laundry and that is why I went into that room.  Honestly just said/asked "do you like the shower better up here?" as I was curious why she would take a shower up there instead of using our nice master bath.  She really didn't say anything.  I said I have nice clean crisp sheets on the bed looking forward to sharing them with you (or something to that effect). 

She stammers around saying she is really tired and may fall asleep putting kids to bed.

I said, "Ohh" and walked out of room. 

She ended up sleeping with kids again.

This morning she was "on a mission" moving around quickly.  Got everyone up 45 minutes earlier than normal.  I said hey, was a bit pushy going in for a hug and things like that.  It was obvious she was having none of it.

Not really nasty, just being obvious her mind was elsewhere.  Not sure what she accomplished with extra 45 minutes.  Kids did clean up their rooms.

Anyway, when she left I made sure I was by the door and was a little in your face about leaning in for a kiss.  She offered a peck on the cheek and left.

I didn't really have a thought our purpose for doing that, but was being very obvious about "taking the temperature" of the r/s.

So far have had a very productive morning around the house.

Session 2 with T tomorrow.

FF

[formflier]

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=289770.60;topicseen

Link above is to catch anyone up that is late to this lovely party.

Went to check out a church yesterday as a family.  Went ok.  Things seemed "normal" until it was bedtime for the kids.

I "caught" my wife taking a shower in the kids bathroom (upstairs).  Was working on laundry and that is why I went into that room.  Honestly just said/asked "do you like the shower better up here?" as I was curious why she would take a shower up there instead of using our nice master bath.  She really didn't say anything.  I said I have nice clean crisp sheets on the bed looking forward to sharing them with you (or something to that effect). 

She stammers around saying she is really tired and may fall asleep putting kids to bed.

I said, "Ohh" and walked out of room. 

She ended up sleeping with kids again.

This morning she was "on a mission" moving around quickly.  Got everyone up 45 minutes earlier than normal.  I said hey, was a bit pushy going in for a hug and things like that.  It was obvious she was having none of it.

Not really nasty, just being obvious her mind was elsewhere.  Not sure what she accomplished with extra 45 minutes.  Kids did clean up their rooms.

Anyway, when she left I made sure I was by the door and was a little in your face about leaning in for a kiss.  She offered a peck on the cheek and left.

I didn't really have a thought our purpose for doing that, but was being very obvious about "taking the temperature" of the r/s.

So far have had a very productive morning around the house.

Session 2 with T tomorrow.

FF

[KateCat]

I can't think of a better time to give your wife space than Monday morning before she has to go to work.

[Notwendy]

FF, I hope you got the message- that by showering in the kids's bathroom and not sleeping in your bed  that this is the message she is likely sending you:

I don't want to have sex with you at this moment

I know you have a belief system that in marriage you each have access to each others' bodies, but marriage is a union of mind, body, and soul. Although you are still married, there are emotional issues between you that are not resolved. Having sex when emotionally disconnected can be distressing to some people.

I think, as Kit Cat said: your wife seems to be wanting some space. It isn't helping that you are honing in on her space at the moment trying to hug or kiss her. It can feel as if you are probing her emotional space to check the emotional temperature.

It's good that you didn't push her sleeping with you when she said she would likely fall asleep with the kids.

Your wife is taking a shower in the kids' bathroom= keeping her nude body private.

Asking her why she is doing this, if she likes the shower better, isn't likely to get the real response if it is to keep her body to herself. Inviting her to sleep in the nice clean sheets isn't likely to get a positive response either.


If she wanting some space, it is possible to honor this wish?

I understand your point of view. I have read that for men, sex is a way of reaching out and connecting with their partners. There isn't anything wrong with that. However, sex when emotionally things are out of sinc is sometimes difficult, and if a person's main way of connecting is emotionally, and emotionally there are issues and still  an expectation for sex, it can feel uncomfortable.

[Cat Familiar]

I'll jump in late to your theme on the previous thread, FF, and echo some of the other women who have replied. I think it's a lot easier for men to compartmentalize sexuality apart from emotional relationships. I know you've said your wife's love language is physical touch and you're aware when she pulls back in this area that there's something troubling her.

I've known very few women who can compartmentalize sex in the way that men can. For most of us, if there is something amiss with the relationship, desire extinguishes. We can go through the motions and sometimes that serves as a repair.

The cycling of anger to sexuality makes me truly wonder what is going on with your wife's emotions. Is she trying to repair the relationship through sex? Is she trying to get her sexual needs met apart from fixing her relationship with you?

I understand that you're being in the moment and enjoying the "good wife" and tolerating the "bad wife" but I wonder if you're unintentionally reinforcing bad behavior?

[formflier]

If she wanting some space, it is possible to honor this wish?

Yep, I honored it, but will be continue to be deliberate about "probing" or checking the temperature of her emotions.  Otherwise, it is a catch 22.  I will get a rage or attitude for not checking, not caring, whatever.  If I am going to make a mistake, I'll make a mistake over checking in too much.

Don't worry, if temp is off, I'll back off.

FF

[formflier]

I understand that you're being in the moment and enjoying the "good wife" and tolerating the "bad wife" but I wonder if you're unintentionally reinforcing bad behavior?

I've been curious about this as well.

However, witholding sex out of some principle or because I am mad or trying to "make a point" seems like punishment to me.  I wouldn't want it done to me, so I'm not going to do it to someone else.

I'm open to thoughts on this.  Any ideas on how not reinforce bad behavior?

FF

[KateCat]

Trying to imagine you "withholding sex," formflier, and can't quite conjure up the image. 

It could be a challenge to enforce boundaries with your wife regarding verbal and emotional abuse. There's been so much of it for so long.

[Grey Kitty]

If she wanting some space, it is possible to honor this wish?

Yep, I honored it, but will be continue to be deliberate about "probing" or checking the temperature of her emotions.  Otherwise, it is a catch 22.  I will get a rage or attitude for not checking, not caring... .whatever.  If I am going to make a mistake, I'll make a mistake over checking in too much.

Don't worry, if temp is off... .I'll back off.

FF

That isn't how you described this day... .let me give you very concrete examples of what you did all day. Warning: I will be drill-sergeant blunt; I know you can take it.

I "caught" my wife taking a shower in the kids bathroom (upstairs).  Was working on laundry and that is why I went into that room.  Honestly just said/asked "do you like the shower better up here?" as I was curious why she would take a shower up there instead of using our nice master bath.

Dude, she's trying to take a shower away from you. That is her wanting space.

DON'T ASK HER WHY... .nothing good will come of it.

Asking her why she is deviating from normal behavior (in a way to create distance from you) is invalidating her desire for space.

She really didn't say anything.  I said I have nice clean crisp sheets on the bed looking forward to sharing them with you (or something to that effect). 

She stammers around saying she is really tired and may fall asleep putting kids to bed.

YOU DID IT AGAIN! She dodged the question, not wanting to be rude and tell you to stay away from her... .so you bluntly asked, and forced her to actively reject you (perhaps a little white lie there)

I said... "Ohh" and walked out of room. 

She ended up sleeping with kids again.

Were you surprised? You shouldn't have been!

This morning she was "on a mission" moving around quickly.  Got everyone up 45 minutes earlier than normal.  I said hey... .was a bit pushy going in for a hug and things like that.  It was obvious she was having none of it.

OK, she's still avoiding you [I've never heard you say that she was "on a mission" or anything of the sort when it was good for your r/s with her]

What the heck are you getting in her face and making her reject you AGAIN for?

Not really nasty, just being obvious her mind was elsewhere.

And you sound surprised about this rejection too?

Anyway, when she left I made sure I was by the door and was a little in your face about leaning in for a kiss.  She offered a peck on the cheek and left.

Are you thinking that something good is going to happen about being in her face this time?

I didn't really have a thought our purpose for doing that, but was being very obvious about "taking the temperature" of the r/s.

DUDE. Stop taking the !@#$!@# temperature. Your wife is NOT subtle about things being hot or cold with you. You had a pretty good idea when you "caught" her in the kids shower.

If your wife was an emotionally healthy, non-dysordered woman, you might well be justified in asking what is going on or looking for clarification when she goes cool or cold on you. But that isn't who she is, and operating that way isn't going to give you good results. I've got two suggestions for you here:

1. Believe your intuition and emotions. When you have the first thought "hmmm, maybe something's wrong" or "she seems distant" or "watch out, here she goes again", trust yourself. You know her well, you are tuned into her moods. You don't need to confirm anything here!

2. When she's cool/cold and wanting space, give it to her graciously. Don't challenge her. Don't ask her to confirm. Don't ask her why. All these things are invalidating, and won't help, and may push her to behaving worse, or staying in that state longer.

A better approach is to work on ways of letting her know that you are ready to welcome her back. Small kind gestures that she can accept, ignore, or respond positively to when her mood changes.

Similar to suggestions for how to deal with the silent treatment that I've seen and shared. In her head, phase one of ST/cold/rejection involves her being upset at you (justified or not). When that feeling passes, she may go to being a bit embarrassed by her behavior, and afraid to reach out to you for fear that you will give her a hard time for mistreating you. If you give her occasional reminders that you are safe, one may sink in and allow her to come back sooner.

[Fian]

This sounds like this may be a bit of a male/female difference in viewpoint.  Coming at this from a Christian perspective, Paul wrote that it was not a command, so there is some wiggle room here, but for the sake of argument let's say that God does not want you to deprive each other of sex.  Even if it was just Paul's opinion, he was an apostle so his suggestion should be taken seriously.

I totally get how women would not want to have sex when they are having issues with their spouse.  But there is also a difference between just having had a fight, and having a long term issue with your spouse.  For the short term issue, a cool off period would make sense, but I think for the long term issue, Paul's instructions would apply.  Some times, what you want to do, and what you should do are not the same thing.    It is easy to do what you want to do.  It is easy to have sex when you are happy with your spouse.  It is "easy" to divorce a spouse with BPD and look for another without BPD than to stick in a difficult marriage.  But often, the easy path brings even more problems down the road, and consequences are often anything but easy.

Back to waiting on sex until you are no longer angry with your spouse.  Can it result in a situation where it just makes the situation worse?  On the man side, he is upset that his wife won't have sex.  That can lead to anger or in the worst case infidelity.  On the other hand, if his needs were met, might he possibly be more loving to his wife?  On the woman's side, even if you feel "used", I suspect that there may still be some bonding that occurs.  Without sex, the resentment on both sides just grows.

Speaking in general terms, marriage is about giving.  If one side stops giving until they start receiving, I can't see how that is going to end well.  You aren't going to receive more by giving less.

[formflier]

Grey and others,

Good input, I see what you are saying.

So, if I am going to "make a mistake" should I lean to far in to the r/s and lean too far out.

It's a catch 22.  If I don't express enough interest, bad.  And if you express too much, bad.

So, if she is acting this way and I stay in my seat, she is at the door to leave and says "What?  You don't want to kiss me goodbye?"

Granted, she hasn't done that in a while, but she seems to be reaching back for many of her old tricks and tools.  This used to be a go to of hers.  To be consistent and not reactive, I kinda do the same routine and try not to vary it based on signals that she gives.

Thoughts?

FF

[formflier]

Speaking in general terms, marriage is about giving.  If one side stops giving until they start receiving, I can't see how that is going to end well.  You aren't going to receive more by giving less.

Yes, the entire post by Fian is reflective of my views.

Honestly I was about 50/50 on wanting sex.  I was 100 percent on wanting to relax and drift off to sleep with my "nice wife", touching and cuddling and all that.

In other words, if she had said, hey, I'm tired can I give you a raincheck I would have said sure, let's cuddle up and get some sleep.

FF

[Notwendy]

Are you sure it isn't you asserting yourself, and so are invalidating her wish for space?  

A while back I had a cold- one of those wake you up at night choking on your snotty nose colds. After a night of being up with it, I told my H. I wanted to sleep--- and then he probed the temp to see if I was in the mood. What's the problem with that? Well I had flat out told him the truth and he discounted that.

That's invalidating. I was angry that he didn't take me seriously, enough that I even imagined giving him a passionate snot ridden contagious kiss if he pushed the point.

Thankfully, he didn't.

Fian, I get that marriage is about giving, and I am happy to do plenty of that, but sometimes a person needs space and it may not have anything to do with the H. A snotty nose is not a gift, and at times, a gift to the spouse is respecting need for space- for both partners.

[Cat Familiar]

It seems I understand animals a lot better than people.  

So here goes, putting on my horse trainer's hat. If I give my horse a cookie when he gets in my personal space and bumps me, then he will think that is a perfectly fine way to behave.

If I tell him in a loud voice, "Get out of my space" and flail about with my arms and advance toward him until he retreats, then wait until he lowers his head and relaxes and then, and only then, give him a cookie, he will respect me. The next time he sees me and knows I have a cookie in my pocket, he will wait respectfully a polite distance away from me and be patient until I give him the cookie, rather than trying to extract it from my pocket himself.

Very simplistic, I know. How it applies to your wife, FF, I'm not sure. But what is troubling to me in hearing your account of your relationship is that I'm not hearing about some repair in between the unkind behavior and the sex. For the sake of brevity, you may not be writing about that. It seems to me that if its not there, then you may well be reinforcing the behavior you don't want.

I think it's great that you two can maintain a decent sexual relationship amidst the difficulties. However, something is up with your wife currently or else she wouldn't be avoiding you. Doing the same thing regardless of her response may be sending a message you don't realize you're sending. For many women it would be that you're just using her for sex.

[Grey Kitty]

So, if I am going to "make a mistake" should I lean to far in to the r/s and lean too far out.

It's a catch 22.  If I don't express enough interest... .bad.  And if you express too much... .bad.

If you define leaning in as trying to engage her in a positive/affectionate way, and leaning out as trying to get space away from her... .I'm not really talking about that balance.

What I'm talking about is "testing the waters" or "checking the temperature" or inquiring about any behavior which seems possibly to be leaning away from you/rejecting you/etc. You do it in ways that she has to actively (or passively, deniably) reject.

Let her lean out... .unchallenged. Avoid invalidating her when she does lean out.

In my loong example, if you had not challenged her three times already, I think the odds of her being receptive when you met her at the door would have been a lot higher.

So, if she is acting this way and I stay in my seat, she is at the door to leave and says "What?  You don't want to kiss me goodbye?"

You have a habit of getting up to kiss her goodbye at the door. Changing that is a different thing, and I can see why you might expect/fear a bad reaction on her part.

However, that (hypothetical) example is her changing from simply taking space away from you (which is a healthy thing to do, even if she doesn't do it very cleanly or clearly) ... .to being critical and verbally abusive toward you.

[Grey Kitty]

Side note on running hot/cold about sex, male/female attitudes and mental disorders.

Men (on average) are much more tolerant of / happy with sex without a deep emotional connection, and better able to compartmentalize to make this possible.

pwBPD live in the feelings-are-facts these-feelings-now-are-what-always-were-and-always-will-be land.

A female pwBPD probably still needs the emotional connection for sex, but because of the disorder, those emotions can spin on a dime! [FF's wife seems to do this!] Obviously a male pwBPD can do this just as fast, if not faster!

A female non- will be disturbed by the spin-on-a-dime thing a male pwBPD can do, probably turned off.

A male non- still has more ability to compartmentalize.

So this may "work" far better for FF and FF Wife than it would for say, for Cat Familiar and Cat Familiar H.

I'm guessing that the "You're only using me for sex" rabbit hole isn't FF Wife's usual dysregulation mode--at least I can't recall FF mentioning it before.

[Cat Familiar]

Good point, Grey Kitty. However, something is bothering Mrs. FF and she's pushing away any attempts FF is making at affection or intimacy.

[Fian]

Fian, I get that marriage is about giving, and I am happy to do plenty of that, but sometimes a person needs space and it may not have anything to do with the H. A snotty nose is not a gift, and at times, a gift to the spouse is respecting need for space- for both partners.

Yes, I agree (I thought I mentioned it in what I wrote).  If today is a bad day, saying no to sex is perfectably reasonable imo from a Christian perspective.  However, when you have issues that drag on for weeks (which is where FF is right now), I doubt that abstaining from sex will make things better, and more likely will make things worse.

[Notwendy]

I think something is seriously bothering Mrs FF too.

I don't have the "using me for sex" issue. I don't think it's about that at all. However when sex is so compartmentalized that there isn't a connection when hearing " I have been up half the night with a cold" I can feel invisible.

I think sex is an important part of marriage that in general should not be denied to a spouse but not to the point where the needs and feelings of each spouse are not considered.

[Notwendy]

There have been posters who have mentioned their partners denying them sex for years. I think that's really destructive to a marriage. I don't see where Ff has this situation. I think his wife is indicating she needs space at the time but I don't get the impression that this is withholding. Sadly - I think this is part of a bigger marital crisis that has many angles to address.

[Grey Kitty]

I agree. Something is seriously bothering Mrs. FF. I don't think it involves sex in her marriage, which is why I've avoided mentioning it until now.

I was suggesting that the invalidation of FF seeking her when she needs space  or questioning her need for space is fueling the problem.

In addition, the household has a lot of upheaval and stress recently... .which she lacks good coping skills for.

[KateCat]

Something is seriously bothering Mrs. FF. I don't think it involves sex in her marriage, which is why I've avoided mentioning it until now.

From the formflier posts I've read over the months, I too believe this to be true.

ADDED: Formflier, I get the impression that you and your wife form a very powerful dyad. That the two of you are communicating with each other nearly constantly via verbal and non-verbal means. Events involving other people can fold into this communication in important ways. (The example of your wife demanding that you kiss her publicly during a church service comes to my mind.)

When you called CPS, I think you were trying to communicate with your wife and influence her behaviors. When she calls her parents, calls the police, threatens divorce, it seems too that she is trying to influence your behaviors.

A problem with this ongoing intensity may be that the two of you "block out the sun" for each other. Important other stakeholders in your relationship (the children) may get forgotten in the struggle. Which has gone on a very long time now, it seems.

[empath]

I'm not so sure that there is actually emotional connection during sex with a pwBPD regardless of their gender. From what I've heard and read, sex is usually a way to control or give the illusion that everything is okay in the pwBPD's mind. Given Mrs. FF's accusations about infidelity on FF''s part and their background, it wouldn't surprise me if she thinks that sex will keep him from those imagined problems. There is no need for 'intimacy' or 'affection'.

Personally, I was tolerant of sex without deep emotional connection for a very long time, until it became an area of abuse, then it became too harmful for me to continue.

FF, what do you get out of being affectionate toward your wife?

Coming at this from a Christian perspective, Paul wrote that it was not a command, so there is some wiggle room here, but for the sake of argument let's say that God does not want you to deprive each other of sex.  Even if it was just Paul's opinion, he was an apostle so his suggestion should be taken seriously.

Paul also wrote in the same section that spouses are not to separate/divorce, that should also be taken seriously, and earlier in the same letter, he wrote that we are not to associate with those who are verbally abusive.

[KateCat]

Paul also wrote in the same section that spouses are not to separate/divorce, that should also be taken seriously, and earlier in the same letter, he wrote that we are not to associate with those who are verbally abusive.

My goodness. It sounds as though he would not be at all surprised to learn of the existence of bpdfamily.com, were he to return to this mortal plane.

[formflier]

FF, what do you get out of being affectionate toward your wife?

Uhh, well, I get laid.   


It's relaxing, can let your cares float away.

It's been a couple houses since we have had a nice bubble tub.  Plenty of room for two of us in there.  So, "usually" sex involves firing up the candles, steaming hot water and a nice long soak.  Sometimes there is some sex activity in the tub, sometimes it's after a long soak.  Usually stay in there until the water gets tepid. 

But, in the tub we snuggle and enjoy each others company.  Don't talk about heavy subjects, just relax and shut out the rest of the world.

FF

[Notwendy]

Empath makes a good point about sex being a way to feel as if everything is OK. My H tends to take any kind of disinterest personally- even if the reason had nothing to do with him.

My parents ( BPD mom) had sexual problems and I knew TMI about it. As a kid, I don't think I understood all about sex and marriage but I made a strong opinion about not witholding sex or using it for control in the marriage I hoped to have. I was not prepared to have these tactics used on me.

So as Fian said- not having sex until the long term problems are solved could hurt more. Being aware of this I still had sex with my H if he wanted it even if he was not kind or loving to me at the time. He could compartmentalize it. I could not. I was not the kind of girl in college who liked to hook up. I don't criticize that. But I know that for me, sex had to be with love and sex without love was very hurtful emotionally. We have made strides to improve. Things are better and I believe that still having sex was better than not. That probably would have left no chance for recovery of the marriage, I think.  But that doesn't mean it was all OK. For my H, sex may have made him feel that things were OK, but that didn't work the same way for me.

This is why I am trying to get a message that if FFs wife is really hurting - not respecting her space may be hurtful to her. Sex to me was never about getting laid, relaxing, or letting go of stress. It can be that way for others. For me, having sex was sharing my heart and soul and it's pretty tough to do that when you feel that this part of you is not cherished.

[Notwendy]

Also, I think there's a fine line between co-dependency, enabling, and accepting the person for who they are. This can mean letting go of power struggles and yet still having boundaries. Sex can mean something different to different people. Somehow instinctually I knew that a power struggle over sex would cause more harm than I wanted to risk. However when it is the wife asking for space it could be that respecting that is better than not.

FF if your wife is upset about something - pushing into her space may feel as bad to her as withholding sex might be to a husband. We are different. Some of us can't compartmentalize and BPD might make the emotions even harder to deal with. You may find that doing this her way is less harmful than your way.

Dr. James Dobson wrote a good book about this "love must be tough" that if one spouse is pulling away- trying to get into their space doesn't work well to bring them back.

[formflier]

I'm pretty sure I confirmed another odd habit that has just come up in last couple weeks. 

If a pattern is emerging it is that during the week she moves into kids room.  She looks ready to bed down for the night.

You can all be happy to know that I didn't mention anything about where she is sleeping.

I do think it is odd that she has D10 and D2 up at 1030 at night.  Everyone else has been asleep for a while.

Maybe the Mom's out there can weigh in on this one.

My wife usually make's a big production out of brushing teeth and getting PJ's on.  Very efficient and she tries to make it fun.  That has been stable for a while.

For the last few nights I have paid attention, not nights in a row, I have thought that "they" wife and kids have been taking food to the room and snacking after getting in bed. 

Since we are now in a carpeted house, wife and I had agreed that no food in rooms.  Bottle water only for drinks.

So, tonight D2 comes down and says "Mommy said I can have a cupcake".  I said "oh good, get your cupcake and sit at kitchen table."  D2 then said the cupcake was for D5. 

I said "Oh good, well tell D5 she can come to kitchen and have a cupcake then."  D2 disappears and fairly quickly there is a lot of stomping and striding around as wife blows into kitchen, loudly crumples up the plastic container that had a few cupcakes in it, and then takes several cupcakes upstairs to the room. 

She passed through the living room where I was for all of this.  She didn't speak to me and I didn't speak to her.

Well, nobody brushed teeth after all of this.

So, pop quiz.  Is she baiting me to ask her about brushing?  Am I supposed to turn her in for being bad Mom and not brushing after sweets? 

Note:  I don't think I have ever seen this before.  Perhaps a mistake where a kid pulled a fast one, but never several nights in close proximity where she was the one introducing food to youngsters after brushing teeth and getting into bed.

 

FF

[formflier]

Emotional connection and sex: 

So, I can probably count on one hand the times I have turned her down for sex because of a dysregulation.  And that would be one of those "poof" it's over kind.  Where she chews my rear and then suddenly stops and wants to grab me.

It's been a few years, but I walked out saying I needed to get over being yelled at.  Pretty sure all those incidents happened before I started at bpdfamily.

2nd thought

A few people asked about "repair".  The only thing close to repair was a conversation this past Sat morning where we had a wonderful talk and handled a few issues.  No apology or anything, but it was good talk.  I figured asking for an apology would be a bit much.   Was also in shock about how well the talk was going and for as long as it went.

She kept going back to the "team" thing, yet didn't have any examples of when we were a team and when we were not.

So, yep, I'm obviously comfortable with sex while icky r/s stuff is going on.

FF

[formflier]

Something is seriously bothering Mrs. FF. I don't think it involves sex in her marriage, which is why I've avoided mentioning it until now.

From the formflier posts I've read over the months, I too believe this to be true.

So, any guesses what is "really" bothering her?

I tend to be detailed in my posting because others sometimes pickup on patterns that I don't or see angles I miss.

I don't think it really is about housework.

It could be the job thing or the switch of roles.

I also wonder if "it" is that I allow her to get away with too much.  In other words that she might feel more comfortable with me having tighter boundaries.

This would go along with the theory that she wished she had a stronger Dad to protect her against her queen type Mom.

Right now my gut says it is the switch of roles, her working and me at home. 

FF

[KateCat]

Switch of roles, plus continued fallout from CPS incident?