Please help me explain to him why I can't do this anymore

[Larmoyant]

My life is in tatters and I’m hurting, but after many recycles I’ve made the choice not to go back. It's been three weeks now.There’s nothing left for him to take and I desperately need to start focussing on my life, and my kids lives. He sent me this today and I just feel an overwhelming sadness, despite endless, nasty text messages over the past week calling me ungrateful, lying cheat whose having affairs with half of my town and preparing to run back to an old bf. I want to write back to him, a final response, but I don’t know what to say. I don't want to keep defending myself all the time. He constantly calls me a liar. I loved this man and it hurts. He says "I don't understand any of this. What did I do?"

Can anyone please offer some advice?

Here’s the email:

“I loved you. I don’t understand any of this. What did I do?

You claim I was abusive and hurt you. The only time you were hurt was when we were squabbling and you lied. I did get annoyed at times but they were all to do with lies.

I stopped seeing my friends. Was prepared to upset my children and possibly alienate them by settling down with you.

What did I get back. You sold my birthday present and didn’t give me my Christmas present.

I have little money atm – Toby (his dog who I love) needs a biopsy and I haven’t done it due to money being short. My daughter needed a PC for uni, but had to get one on a loan. Nonetheless I got you all that you wanted.

Our relationship was all one way.

I didn’t deserve all the lies and being put down to everyone. I have always been thought of as kind and a good person.

I was worth some support through what has been an almost impossible period due to health.

I am deeply hurt and feel very let down.”

[vortex of confusion]

There is no need to defend yourself.

I have been with my stbx for 18 years. I have brought up certain issues at different times over the years. I have asked him to move out. He still doesn't seem to understand why. I have explained things to him until I am blue in the face. I think the whole "What did I do?" is a way for them dismiss your concerns. I don't know that for certain but it feels that way to me. It is like the things that I have said over the years were never heard. It is like he has no clue as to why I might want to leave or be done with him.

At some point, I stopped explaining and stopped defending myself. At some point, I think I said, "You haven't done anything wrong. We are no longer compatible." I can tell anybody else about the stuff that has happened between us and they are appalled at him and his behavior (including his mother). Him, he doesn't get it and seems to want to live in complete denial that he had done anything wrong and that he continues to dismiss me.

No matter how much you want to defend yourself and answer this, don't. Nothing good will come of it. It will likely start some kind of circular craziness where you walk away with those little stars or birdies flying around your head. 

[Teereese]

There is no need to defend yourself.

I have been with my stbx for 18 years. I have brought up certain issues at different times over the years. I have asked him to move out. He still doesn't seem to understand why. I have explained things to him until I am blue in the face. I think the whole "What did I do?" is a way for them dismiss your concerns. I don't know that for certain but it feels that way to me. It is like the things that I have said over the years were never heard. It is like he has no clue as to why I might want to leave or be done with him.

At some point, I stopped explaining and stopped defending myself. At some point, I think I said, "You haven't done anything wrong. We are no longer compatible." I can tell anybody else about the stuff that has happened between us and they are appalled at him and his behavior (including his mother). Him, he doesn't get it and seems to want to live in complete denial that he had done anything wrong and that he continues to dismiss me.

No matter how much you want to defend yourself and answer this, don't. Nothing good will come of it. It will likely start some kind of circular craziness where you walk away with those little stars or birdies flying around your head. 

 Larmoyant.

I have been married to my stbxh for 22 years and like vortex of confision (  - the name) suggests, you will end up in a merry go round that doesn't stop.

I have learned that not much that I have shared over the years was heard.

Trust yourself. Don't let him make you feel as though you have to defend yourself, your feelings, values or beliefs.

It is hard but you can get through this.

[Rmbrworst]

Only say something if you want to say it.  Do it only if it makes you feel better and helps you heal.  I will not diagnose your exBPD, but he sounds very narcissistic.  The email he sent his all about him.

"People say I'm a good guy.  I never hurt you but when it was your fault.  Feel bad for me because I'm poor and that's your fault too!"

These are not the things someone who is healthy would say.  You know this though ... .

No matter what you say, it's obvious from this letter he will never change.  He will not accept one shred of the things he has done, and he likely never will.  If you try to send a message mentioning all the hurtful things he's done, I bet you he will try to talk his way out of that one too.  He won't care.  He just wants his supply, and when he learns you are never going back, I bet you'll be discarded and replaced in two seconds. 

If you want to respond, I think vortex laid out the frame work very well.  Short and sweet with no room to fuss over small details.

Sorry if my post sounds aggressive, but that letter made me feel sad and angry for you.  I hope you stay strong and firm in your decision. 

[parisian]

Larmoyant, you said you feel like you desperately need to start focusing on your own life and that of your children.

I +1 for all the responses above.

In my experience, you may as well literally write 'blah blah blah' as a response, for it doesn't matter what you say or how you say or what medium you use. And if you try and explain, it just falls on deaf ears and allows the opportunity for the painful conversations to continue or just go around and around some more. It doesn't matter how loud you say it. You cannot force them to accept your words or explanation, regardless of how truthful or factual or honest or loving it is.

My suggestion would simply be to wish him well and close contact off.

[vortex of confusion]

It is rarely a good idea to JADE (justify, argue, defend, explain).

I wanted to add a few more comments. One of the things that is really helpful is to realize that the two of you can have completely different truths. Even though his truth is completely messed up, it is still his truth. It is difficult to say anything without dismissing or invalidating his experience. You can call it quits without invalidating yourself by trying to explain things to him.

He probably is a good guy. I know that my stbx can be a great guy. In other situations, he is nice and helpful and puts on one heck of a good show. I doubt that too many people would say anything too bad about him. Most of it is stuff like he is immature or grumpy or talks too much. It is nothing that big.

One time, I wanted to help him understand why I was done and frustrated. I thought that if I told him enough times, he would understand my point of view and things would get better. It didn't happen. One of the things that sticks out in my memory is me telling him that he didn't make me feel special. I know it sounds corny. My problem was that he would make everyone and everything else a priority. I felt like I could be dying and he would tell me "just a minute, I have to finish this quest/page/scratching my butt/whatever. I tried to communicate that with him. I had a list of grievances and I set about to help him understand my perspective. Instead of getting understanding, I got, "Well, you don't make me feel special either." I was floored and started listing all of the things that I do for him. He totally dismissed me and said, "But you are nice to everyone." Um, that was so infuriating because there are lots of things that I did for him that I don't do for just anyone.

I share that story to demonstrate how crazy things can get when you think that all you have to do is explain it. Explaining will not do any good and is likely to escalate things. For me, detaching is finding ways to NOT escalate things. I don't explain myself. If I do, I try to keep it short and sweet. I try not to get into the blame stuff. If things are over, it doesn't matter whose fault things are. Things are over and done and his behavior is no longer relevant. The things that he has done to hurt me cannot be changed. It is up to me to let myself feel the pain and hurt without explaining it. As far as he is concerned, we are not longer compatible. I don't want to get involved in any explanations.

[JaneStorm]

It sounds like he is appealing to your rescuing side. He is a big boy; he figured life out before he met you and he will again, without you. If it were me and I was compelled to respond, I would say something brief like, "I am confident that you will figure things out. Good luck in all of your endeavors." Short of that, I would ignore, delete, and block him so I could focus on mySelf and my family.

[Larmoyant]

Thank you all for responding. I agree, it would be useless trying to defend myself. I’ve done that too many times and I’m fed up with those spinning stars. I’m also too exhausted to even try. Last week he bombarded me with nasty texts/emails blaming me, threatening me, and telling me what an awful person I am. This made me feel angry so it was easier to ignore. This one got to me a little only because he said that he doesn’t understand. Despite all the truly terrible things he’s done I sometimes feel sorry for him. I think I'm a rescuer type of person and I couldn't help him.

In any event I couldn’t think of anything to say. I received another text this afternoon asking me to please respond so I did, being as honest as possible, saying that I’ve been trying to think of a response, that we each have our own memories and versions of events and we should respect those, but I’m not going to respond to any accusations, insults and such. 

Then this evening I received these texts  (he always accuses me of cheating with so many people I’ve lost count).

Him: Are you in ? or have you booked to go to ? or has he booked to come here? Be honest.

Me: Who are you referring to? I don’t understand?

Him: Thought so. I’m not the one who has been using you and lying to you. Or the one that is truly evil.

Me: I don’t understand?

Him: I’ll try one more question. Does he have a girlfriend?

Me: There is something very wrong with this. I don’t understand. I am not in ?, have no plans to go to ? and no one is visiting me.

Him: Has he got a girlfriend?

Me: Who?

Him: The di.kh... d professor (he’s referring to my old university professor who I haven’t seen in 3 years)

Me. The last time I knew he was engaged and I have no plans to meet up with him.

Him: Bulls... t

Those stars are spinning around my head again. I suspect I handled all of this really badly.

[JaneStorm]

Thank you all for responding. I agree, it would be useless trying to defend myself. I’ve done that too many times and I’m fed up with those spinning stars. I’m also too exhausted to even try. Last week he bombarded me with nasty texts/emails blaming me, threatening me, and telling me what an awful person I am. This made me feel angry so it was easier to ignore. This one got to me a little only because he said that he doesn’t understand. Despite all the truly terrible things he’s done I sometimes feel sorry for him. I think I'm a rescuer type of person and I couldn't help him.

In any event I couldn’t think of anything to say. I received another text this afternoon asking me to please respond so I did, being as honest as possible, saying that I’ve been trying to think of a response, that we each have our own memories and versions of events and we should respect those, but I’m not going to respond to any accusations, insults and such. 

Then this evening I received these texts  (he always accuses me of cheating with so many people I’ve lost count).

Him: Are you in ? or have you booked to go to ? or has he booked to come here? Be honest.

Me: Who are you referring to? I don’t understand?

Him: Thought so. I’m not the one who has been using you and lying to you. Or the one that is truly evil.

Me: I don’t understand?

Him: I’ll try one more question. Does he have a girlfriend?

Me: There is something very wrong with this. I don’t understand. I am not in ?, have no plans to go to ? and no one is visiting me.

Him: Has he got a girlfriend?

Me: Who?

Him: The di.kh... d professor (he’s referring to my old university professor who I haven’t seen in 3 years)

Me. The last time I knew he was engaged and I have no plans to meet up with him.

Him: Bulls... t

Those stars are spinning around my head again. I suspect I handled all of this really badly.

I have received the same type of texts a few weeks ago. For me, I assumed he had been hooking up with multiple women and was again transferring it on to me.  I just texted "have a good night; I hope you calm down and enjoy your weekend." I then blocked him and all further texts from him went to spam and I did not check them.

Give yourself a break. We learn each time we respond. I am sure you will get another opportunity!  Deprive him of the oxygen that nurtures his crazy. For his own good as well as yours.

[vortex of confusion]

It takes time to recognize when they are trying to bait you into some kind of weird conversation. As time passes, it will be easier to respond with things like, "I will not have this conversation with you."

It is really difficult to get to that point because they ask questions in such a way that you don't understand and need clarification or seem innocent enough at the beginning. All it takes is for you to respond or ask a question and it is off to the races. It is okay to respond with something like, "I received your text. I will not have this conversation." It may take a while of refusing to engage in certain conversations before he gets the message.

My stbx has tried to be my friend and talk to me about stuff. I told him, "Why do you want to talk to me? You have three female friends that you talk to regularly and you have your gaming friends. Our relationship is over. There is nothing to discuss outside of the kids and the business of household type stuff." I keep reminding him that things are over and that what I do is no longer his business.

Maybe you can come up with a list of phrases to use when he starts down those rabbit holes. Some phrases that I have used are:

We are incompatible.

These things are no longer relevant. Our relationship is over.

I will not have this conversation with you.

You should discuss this with your sponsor/friend/mom/etc.

I received your message. I have nothing to say in response.

The main thing is to set a boundary and not let him cross it. He will try and suck you back in. It is up to you to make up your mind that you don't want to do it and then stick with it. Don't be surprised if you find yourself getting sucked in and responding in ways that you don't like after the fact. Be easy on yourself. This stuff is hard and can be very confusing.

[zuki1111]

I read a very helpful book that I have not seen recommended on here. It is call "Controlling People" by Patricia Evans. It is not about BPD, but really I think , is relevant to all of us. It explains very well how you can tell someone something over and over again, and it never sinks in.

I agree with what everyone here is saying. If you have tried, as I know you have, to communicate with him, and he doesn't get it, as he seems not to, forget it. I keep thinking, I am codependent, How can I see this interaction in a way that is not codependent. That has helped me stay detached. Him not getting what I say is one thing that keeps me detached. So that is a good thing.

[JaneStorm]

"I will not have this conversation with you."

I think it was you, Vortex, that advised me similarly a few weeks ago. It was like Kryptonite to him. No hook, no bother! Very good advice!

[zuki1111]

One more thing about that book I mentioned. It recommends that if someone says something that does not seem rational, you should just respond by saying "What?"

[Rock Chick]

I agree with others... .I think boundaries need to be set if they haven't been already. As well either ignore the emails/txts/etc or if you read them and feel the need to reply just tell him you have received his msgs and wish him well with things going on in his life. If he cant respect the boundaries/ur wishes and go with all this then you have to either go no contact with no explanation no reply to stuff. Or send one final msg that states you wish him well and the best with dealing with things in his life and that you will no longer be responding in anyway to anything he says to you sends to u etc. and to please do not contact you again. Well thats just my 2 cents. p.s. have you done a  pros and cons of replying to his msgs and ignoring them? As well as staying in contact vs going no contact? Just curious.

[Lucky Jim]

In my experience, you may as well literally write 'blah blah blah' as a response, for it doesn't matter what you say or how you say or what medium you use. And if you try and explain, it just falls on deaf ears and allows the opportunity for the painful conversations to continue or just go around and around some more. It doesn't matter how loud you say it. You cannot force them to accept your words or explanation, regardless of how truthful or factual or honest or loving it is.

Parisian, you put that well.  I have had the same experience.  It doesn't pay to engage because you're not dealing with a rational person.  It is unlikely that a pwBPD will ever see things from your perspective, so why bother?  It's a Lose/Lose proposition, in my view.

LuckyJim

[Larmoyant]

Hi all, I'm sorry for not responding sooner. I am very depressed and it takes a while to collect my thoughts.

I’ve been putting into practice the suggestions that people have given me so thank you all so much. I've tried to set some boundaries but he doesn't seem to understand them, although he seems to try at times.

I’ve made it very clear that we are over, but he still keeps texting me.

His messages mainly accuse me of being a liar, telling me what I did and did not know, rewriting history, flat out denying some of the awful things he’s said and even accused me of making them up, minimised his rages, called me names, e.g. con artist, untrustworthy, cheater, says the relationship was all one way and that I never did anything for him, had neglected him while he was ill. His favourite seems to be calling me a liar and a cheat saying I’ve had several other men, even going so far as to make up bizarre scenarios saying that I’d sent photos to another man, have probably already slept with someone else,even recalling times in the past and twisting them to include clandestine affairs with other men (e.g. I apparently went to the ladies in a restaurant one time to ring my lover), bizarrely told me that one of my favourite singers is in town so I must have bought tickets and hadn’t decided whether to invite him or not and the best of all wrote “How can anyone have a relationship with someone as warped as you”.

I have to keep reminding myself that I’m not what he says and I’m not warped. Of course I feel like defending myself, but I understand from reading here and my therapist that it would be futile. I could go NC, but I don’t want to. Why, I don’t know yet. However, this all just makes me glad that it’s now over and now I understand why I’m so depressed and ill. Almost two years of this and it’s taken its toll.

He refuses to acknowledge my reasons for breaking up and is insisting that it was all my fault and that he’s been a “MUG”. Maybe it's time for me to do a pros and cons list as Rock Chick suggested.

I do, however, wonder what he’s hoping to achieve here?

[vortex of confusion]

I do, however, wonder what he’s hoping to achieve here?

He is trying to suck you back in and get you to engage even if it is to engage negatively. Sometimes, I think my stbx gets some kind of sick pleasure out of trying to get me to engage. I have told him it is over on numerous occasions. I even spoke with his mother the other day and told her. It was the first she had heard about it. It is like he is living in some kind of altered or delusional state of reality where he refuses to accept that I am done.

It is soo hard to resist the bait some days. I think it is natural to want to defend oneself. I had been doing so well at not engaging with my stbx. Something he said or did caught me just so and I said something and that led to being accused of being a gold digger. Those words weren't used but that was the gyst of it. I was retelling an account of what happened to a friend. My friend had the best advice. Let his reality be his. Nothing you do or say is going to change it. However, you still have your reality. Your reality can be objectively identified whereas his can't.

You don't need him to acknowledge your reasons. I have tried to tell my stbx why I am done yet he still doesn't understand. He does not see things the way I do. No amount of explaining will change it. You have to acknowledge your reasons for yourself. It isn't easy. I have to catch myself whenever I get the urge to explain why I am done.

[apollotech]

Larmoyant,

Rather than thinking about what he says, what he does, etc., think about it this way---you have the power to end it by simply no longer engaging in the chaos. You have already given him a portion of your past which has resulted in your current depressed state, why give him another day of your future? Your life, your time, you have value; why spend it on a lost cause? Empower yourself, take control of your future. It is not about him; it is about you.

[JaneStorm]

I agree with the previous statements; this has been a challenge for me but I have not responded in a while. My T says the more I intermittently respond, the more he will continue. The longer I ignore his bait, the more he will ramp up (extinction burst). If I hold out, he will go away because there will be no reward. Any attention is good attention. Give him none.

I have him blocked and when an email comes to my work, I delete it. Each day, I become stronger. Hang in there and do something that takes you away from the electronic ties you have with him.