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Author Topic: Email from the ex  (Read 2493 times)
steelwork
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« Reply #30 on: February 01, 2016, 06:50:58 AM »

The ethics of this situation are driving me insane, i don't have any idea of what is right or wrong. To support, well considering the emotional attatchment I feel as though we would have to be "together" or at least working to that end. I love her, so I can't "be there" for her if she is going to get involved with other guys, that would be extremley unhealthy.

I want to give emotional support, and be a sounding board or whatever she needs, but as I say i guess it's transactional, "boundriless giving"  isn't healthy.

Re. ethics: I don't know. So hard. But I read her email again and don't see that she's asking you for any participation in her treatment. You have your own history with her and can read between the lines, of course. But what if you just responded in some way that was empathetic without stating an intention to become involved? Would that be the same as getting involved? I don't know.
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« Reply #31 on: February 01, 2016, 08:11:28 AM »

I have received similar emails from my ex. And not just emails, he would talk to me like that on the phone and skype (we were long distance). Not so much when we were in person though. The first times I was extremely happy to see him being so mature about everything. So we ended up together again. The times that followed and when I started researching about BPD I was of course more skeptical. All of the times were genuine. I know in my gut they were. But unfortunately the determination to make it work never lasted. And all this time that he has been genuinely apoligising he was also married and never told me... .I only found out after our last break up in end of November. He didn't feel married, he says his marriage has been dead for years so it didn't affect our relationship but didn't want to tell me because I would abandon him. As crazy as this sounds he really means it and still cannot understand why i am so hurt by this.

My point is no matter how genuine it is, nobody can assure you that her feelings will stay that way. Every time he would talk so sincerely I was thinking there is no way I will leave this man who is basically asking for my understanding.  But the unfortunate truth was that every time he ended up leaving me... .I SO WISH I could tell you that your ex will handle it differently. But I don't know and actually nobody knows. What's for sure is that it won't be easy for you to be around for support. It won't be an easy ride especially when you said your self that you are very emotionally involved. I guess you have to measure the amount of strength and willingness that is left inside you.

Maybe first of all trying to understand what it is exactly she is asking from you will put things into perspective and help you decide on how you want to proceed
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« Reply #32 on: February 01, 2016, 08:41:19 AM »

I know this is very hard to swallow, but what if there is absolutely nothing TO do?

I agree with the posters who point out that there is nothing in this message that requests "support."  I'd say that "support" from someone in your position, Infern0, makes no sense.  She has correctly identified that there are mental and emotional dynamics at play that drive her to treat you poorly and also, to develop negative feelings about you and your relationship with her while you are in one.  That is a hard bundle of truth but you yourself know it to be true.

Radical acceptance ... .is that you love the woman and from time to time she feels she loves you, but she doesn't have the first idea how to deal with her negative feelings, and she tends to do things that, for you, aren't OK.

I think acknowledging that what she said makes sense and is tough for you both, is about the only thing this message calls for.
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cosmonaut
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« Reply #33 on: February 01, 2016, 09:49:40 AM »

Re. ethics: I don't know. So hard. But I read her email again and don't see that she's asking you for any participation in her treatment. You have your own history with her and can read between the lines, of course. But what if you just responded in some way that was empathetic without stating an intention to become involved? Would that be the same as getting involved? I don't know.

I know this is very hard to swallow, but what if there is absolutely nothing TO do?

...

I think acknowledging that what she said makes sense and is tough for you both, is about the only thing this message calls for.

Exactly the way I read it too.  Infern0, I think you may be reading into this something that is not there.  She is not asking to get back together.  I think that is what you want to see, and I can certainly understand that.  But she is saying something different.  She is saying that while she loves you and she wants to be with you she knows that she can't sustain it.  She gets it.  That's a monumental step for her.  She sees the pattern, whether she knows anything about BPD or not.  We can hope that she will be able to run with that; it will change her life.  Read the letter again.  Can you see this?

She's not asking for support.  She's not really asking for much - not even a reply.  The only thing I hear her asking for is your understanding and forgiveness.  She knows she has problems and she's trying to find out why.  She knows she has hurt you, and she is sorry she has.

If you want to have a relationship with her, she's telling you that it can't be romantic - not now.  She does seem to express her wish that someday that could change, but she doesn't know when.  If your support and friendship is conditional upon "being together" as you seem to be saying, then I don't see how any further contact can work.  She needs to be able to explore this - on her own.  If she is serious, this will be one of the most important times of her life, and if you love her then I'm sure you can understand that.

Given the parameters she has given, are you comfortable being in her life?  Can you do a friendship - even one with some uncertain future possibility of something more?  You have a history of jumping into bed with her.  I can understand why - you love her.  Repeating that is only going to cause more harm for both of you, however.   Being completely sober with yourself:  can you do a friendship?
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apollotech
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« Reply #34 on: February 01, 2016, 10:54:32 AM »

Given the parameters she has given, are you comfortable being in her life?  Can you do a friendship - even one with some uncertain future possibility of something more?  You have a history of jumping into bed with her.  I can understand why - you love her.  Repeating that is only going to cause more harm for both of you, however.   Being completely sober with yourself:  can you do a friendship?

Infern0,

Cosmonaut has asked the pertinent questions here ^^^^. It's really not about how she will act but rather about what you can tolerate and how you will react. Because of the history that y'all have together and because of her disorder, I do believe that she will attempt to bring you back into a romantic relationship at some point. Her writing, although honest and genuine, surely left the door open for you to come forward. No, she didn't ask for support outright, but it was implied through her pulling on your sympathy.

Again, I did not see her accepting responsibility for her behavior in the note. Saying "I don't know why" and "wishing it away" are convenient justifications for her behavior, but without a commitment to cease those behaviors in the future. I didn't see any apology at all. Again, just an implied apology.

I would get these same types of "confessions" from my BPDexgf everytime we started a new cycle. Like your ex, mine was very aware that she had issues and was very aware that her behavior drove away the people that cared for her the most. But, in the end, her "knowing" never resulted in "action" on her behalf. I hope that your situation will be different.

I know that you're questioning what you should do, how you should support her at this juncture. My personal response would be to do nothing while remaining civil. If you truly are "everything she's ever wanted" then now is her time to prove that by doing the work necessary to become a better companion for you. Is she doesn't undertake that, well, the confession is just another pith party for her.
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fromheeltoheal
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« Reply #35 on: February 01, 2016, 11:49:18 AM »

Hey Inferno-

Per cosmo-

Given the parameters she has given, are you comfortable being in her life?  Can you do a friendship - even one with some uncertain future possibility of something more?  Being completely sober with yourself:  can you do a friendship?[/quote]
Succinct questions, to which you previously said:

Excerpt
To support, well considering the emotional attatchment I feel as though we would have to be "together" or at least working to that end. I love her, so I can't "be there" for her if she is going to get involved with other guys, that would be extremley unhealthy.

Which I agree with totally.  That creates a tough choice: be with her, and all that entails, or be there to support her while she's off with other men.  That's not a choice really, and you don't need to make it.

Excerpt
The ethics of this situation are driving me insane, i don't have any idea of what is right or wrong.

You can make it easier by focusing on what's best for you.  Selfishness gets a bad rap, but really, if we don't take care of ourselves first, we have nothing to give.  The email confused you, sent you spinning, as is expected from someone you love, and letting go is hard, doesn't take much effort really, just let go, but the distance between a sliver of hope and no hope at all is a huge leap, up to you if you're ready to take it.
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Infern0
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« Reply #36 on: February 01, 2016, 02:48:26 PM »

I just sent this.

Thankyou for the email it explained a lot and made a lot of sense, I don't hate you at all, I don't believe you set out to internationally hurt me. Best of luck with the treatment, I am sure you will do well.

End
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fromheeltoheal
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« Reply #37 on: February 01, 2016, 03:04:00 PM »

I just sent this.

Thankyou for the email it explained a lot and made a lot of sense, I don't hate you at all, I don't believe you set out to internationally hurt me. Best of luck with the treatment, I am sure you will do well.

End

There's a finality to that Inferno, in line with what you say you want.  What will you do if she responds?
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Infern0
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« Reply #38 on: February 01, 2016, 03:59:17 PM »

I just sent this.

Thankyou for the email it explained a lot and made a lot of sense, I don't hate you at all, I don't believe you set out to internationally hurt me. Best of luck with the treatment, I am sure you will do well.

End

There's a finality to that Inferno, in line with what you say you want.  What will you do if she responds?

She will respond, if not today or next week but she will respond I'm certain of that.

I'll post on here and get advice when that happens
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patientandclear
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« Reply #39 on: February 01, 2016, 05:00:51 PM »

Great response. You've done no harm to her or to you.
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« Reply #40 on: February 01, 2016, 07:17:41 PM »

It's too late now, but if I were you I wouldn't have responded. She's trying to cling. As long as you respond she'll cling.
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patientandclear
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« Reply #41 on: February 01, 2016, 07:26:58 PM »

 For what it's worth, I don't agree. Quite a few times, I've sent my ex messages similar in tone to the one Inferno sent. The good news and the bad news is that he tended to go silent in response, for many many months. They definitely did not  cause him to cling.

Also, this is a human being, one with  whom inferno had been in communication. She sent him a sincere, honest, human expression of confusion and sadness. If we are able, given  our mental state, it seems good to me all other things being equal to acknowledge the humanity of others we have spent significant parts of our life with.

I have never found it necessary to ignore a significant communication from my ex. There are ways to respond  making clear that, unless things have changed, there's no point in messing around with the same old territory.
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« Reply #42 on: February 01, 2016, 07:31:46 PM »

For what it's worth, I don't agree. Quite a few times, I've sent my ex messages similar in tone to the one Inferno sent. The good news and the bad news is that he tended to go silent in response, for many many months. They definitely did not  cause him to cling.

Everything is a question of what we expect from a break-up. But, now his ex knows what kind of message makes him react. So each time when she gets in the mood of contacting him (preventing him to move on) she'll send him a message. Of course it is ok to respond, except if he tries to rebuild himself and forget about her.
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kc sunshine
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« Reply #43 on: February 01, 2016, 07:37:44 PM »

I think it was a good thing to respond as well and I liked what Infern0 said. Fingers crossed for her on her journey to health!
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Infern0
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« Reply #44 on: February 01, 2016, 07:41:27 PM »

She came in to my work to "say hi" today

I think some wires have got crossed here... .
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« Reply #45 on: February 01, 2016, 07:42:52 PM »

When I read inferno's ex's e-mail I had the impression to read exactly the same e-mail from my ex, who's still trying to reach me after two-three years of break-up. In my case it prevents me from rebuilding myself. That's why I was syaing that all depends on what you expect from the break-up to maintain contact or not. And if you maintain contact how do you manage to recover?
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« Reply #46 on: February 01, 2016, 07:44:13 PM »

She came in to my work to "say hi" today

I think some wires have got crossed here... .

Hi Inferno,

trust me, the best thing you can do in order to help her recover and help you recover is to get out of a possible toxic relationship.

I'm not surprised she came by. The e-mail was just sent to test the waters.



So what did you say to her when you two met guys? How did you react?
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fromheeltoheal
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« Reply #47 on: February 01, 2016, 07:52:49 PM »

For what it's worth, I don't agree. Quite a few times, I've sent my ex messages similar in tone to the one Inferno sent. The good news and the bad news is that he tended to go silent in response, for many many months. They definitely did not  cause him to cling.

Everything is a question of what we expect from a break-up.

Yes, and even more important than expectations are goals; actual events may not meet our expectations, but goals are something we can control and staying focused on them is empowering.  So what are our goals?

Excerpt
But, now his ex knows what kind of message makes him react.

Borderlines will test an attachment to see if it's still in place.  If it is it feels good, if an attachment has been severed it feels bad and interpreted as abandonment, the worst thing that can happen to a borderline.

Excerpt
So each time when she gets in the mood of contacting him (preventing him to move on) she'll send him a message.

For a borderline "in the mood" translates to "looks for an attachment to help soothe emotions she can't soothe on her own."

Excerpt
Of course it is ok to respond, except if he tries to rebuild himself and forget about her.

Ending all communication with a borderline is a tool we can use to help us detach from the relationship, although it's an extreme tool that includes drama and emotion, and some folks favor continued, limited contact as a kinder, more holistic way of ending the relationship.  I removed my ex from my life entirely simply because someone who treated me the way she did is no longer welcome in my life in any fashion, but not everyone is in that place, some folks still love their ex very much and it's hard.  There's no forgetting either, forgiving yes, but not forgetting, how could we ever forget someone who taught us so much?

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Driver
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« Reply #48 on: February 01, 2016, 07:56:12 PM »



There's no forgetting either, forgiving yes, but not forgetting, how could we ever forget someone who taught us so much?

When I mentioned "forgetting" I meant "healing from emotional suffering".
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cosmonaut
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« Reply #49 on: February 01, 2016, 08:13:43 PM »

She came in to my work to "say hi" today

I think some wires have got crossed here... .

I think it may have been more the ambiguity of your reply and she is trying to find out what it means (not criticizing you, but trying to help you see it may not be a game she's playing).  I'm not sure that you have an answer yourself, however, to what your reply meant for your relationship with her.  :)o you know what you want?  And if so, can you communicate that to her, so she knows where things stand?
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« Reply #50 on: February 02, 2016, 01:29:42 PM »

Infern0,

Everythig ok? Any updates to your story?
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Infern0
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« Reply #51 on: February 02, 2016, 01:44:30 PM »

Infern0,

Everythig ok? Any updates to your story?

I've been struggling with a realisation, i'm not sure if it's true or not.

I'm actually not convinced I ever truly loved her. I think that it's just a repetition compulsion from my childhood.

I don't see how i could have really loved her, I don't even know who she really is, since she's so secretive and has lied about so much
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« Reply #52 on: February 02, 2016, 01:51:57 PM »

Infern0,

Everythig ok? Any updates to your story?

I've been struggling with a realisation, i'm not sure if it's true or not.

I'm actually not convinced I ever truly loved her. I think that it's just a repetition compulsion from my childhood.

I don't see how i could have really loved her, I don't even know who she really is, since she's so secretive and has lied about so much

Did she try to contact you back today?
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Infern0
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« Reply #53 on: February 02, 2016, 02:45:52 PM »

Infern0,

Everythig ok? Any updates to your story?

I've been struggling with a realisation, i'm not sure if it's true or not.

I'm actually not convinced I ever truly loved her. I think that it's just a repetition compulsion from my childhood.

I don't see how i could have really loved her, I don't even know who she really is, since she's so secretive and has lied about so much

Did she try to contact you back today?

No, not today it'll probably be a few days I know her pattern.

At the end of the day this email and everything is all good and well but the constant lies mean I struggle to believe a word she says
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Driver
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« Reply #54 on: February 02, 2016, 02:48:48 PM »

Infern0,

Everythig ok? Any updates to your story?

I've been struggling with a realisation, i'm not sure if it's true or not.

I'm actually not convinced I ever truly loved her. I think that it's just a repetition compulsion from my childhood.

I don't see how i could have really loved her, I don't even know who she really is, since she's so secretive and has lied about so much

Did she try to contact you back today?

No, not today it'll probably be a few days I know her pattern.

At the end of the day this email and everything is all good and well but the constant lies mean I struggle to believe a word she says

I understand. Well, I hope everything gets back to normal in your life. Hang in. Don't hesitate to update your story.
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fromheeltoheal
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« Reply #55 on: February 02, 2016, 02:51:56 PM »

Hey Inferno-

At the end of the day this email and everything is all good and well but the constant lies mean I struggle to believe a word she says

Excerpt
I've been struggling with a realisation, i'm not sure if it's true or not.

I'm actually not convinced I ever truly loved her. I think that it's just a repetition compulsion from my childhood.

I don't see how i could have really loved her, I don't even know who she really is, since she's so secretive and has lied about so much

Those are the benefits of limited contact: you get to see your ex as you detach, educate yourself and get feedback from folks like us, and your perception of her and the relationship can change as you go, which can make things easier.  Unlike me, I baled wanting to kill her and never talked to her again, high drama, painful all around.
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« Reply #56 on: February 02, 2016, 03:18:51 PM »

Hi infern0,

I'm not going to say one way or the other what your ex means as I don't know her.  All I can share is my experience with my exBPD.  She wrote me about 3 such emails in a period of time over 2 years.  Each time when I had ended the relationship and about a month or two later, she would come back to me with sincere apologies and amends.

The most recent being just before xmas.  She sounded so sincere and so aware of her part.  She pledged to do things differently and not abuse me going forward.

I was on the fence, not committing for a few days.  However, when I finally decided to "give it another go", she IMMEDIATELY went back to her old behaviour and was going back on EVERY WORD of her apology and minimizing my feelings again.

A few days later, she dumped me and left me as a puddle in the gutter. 

It was after this - seeing the cycle play itself out over a 2 week period, that I realized she had BPD and just how fake the apologies were.  I finally saw them as manipulations, sometimes very elaborate.  Sometimes she would play a game as though she didn't want me back, she just wanted to "make amends".  However, I realized that it was all because she wanted me back. 

She NEVER did anything like take responsibility without strings attached and every time I was stupid enough to fall for it, I ended up getting hurt.  So I take a huge amount of the blame for myself.  But I think I'm smart enough and educated enough now to see the games and patterns and hopefully never fall for them again.

That said, I miss the hell out her and I'm suicidally depressed right now.  That is the mind-fxxk for me.  I wish you all the best and please don't read my post as an opinion of what your situation is.  Only my story.  Maybe it will help you get perspective.  Cheers.
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« Reply #57 on: February 02, 2016, 03:53:14 PM »

At the end of the day this email and everything is all good and well but the constant lies mean I struggle to believe a word she says

Infern0,

I went through those same struggles/questions regarding my ex. On top of that we had a 30+ year friendship before we became romantically involved, so when I was finally exposed to her disordered side, needless to say, it was quite a change from the person that I thought that I knew: What was real? What was her? What was the disorder? Can they even be separated? Etc. I finally gave up on trying to sort through it all and just started looking at her patterns. Once she became emotional attached to me, her disorder started dictating her actions (She became someone that I didn't know.). That's why I said in a prior post that your ex's "confession", although sincere and truthful, may only be a ruse. She has the ball, let her run with it. See what she does. Most importantly, take care of yourself in all of this!
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« Reply #58 on: February 02, 2016, 04:20:22 PM »

Staff only

This thread has reached its post limit and has therefor been locked.
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