Validation versus Ignoring

[ydrys017]

So, I have a very difficult time using validation, for a few reasons.  One, I'm simply not very good at it. Two, my BPDw sees right through it and simply picks it apart.  Three, now that I know this is not 'all me' I have a lower tolerance for the process - quite frankly, it just makes me silently angry.

Over the past 18 months I've succeeded in 'not making it worse' by following the rules for JADE by recognizing FOG.  However, my strategy for the confrontations has been to respond minimally, and brush off / ignore the zingers - especially in front of the kids.  Am I making it better, worse or neutral?

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RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[TheRealJongoBong]

I'm not sure you can do anything to make it better beyond a certain point. Not doing JADE and doing SET help, but the fundamental driver to their behavior is not at all altered by using these tools. There are tools for disarming the behavior that may work for you:

www.nicolamethodforhighconflict.com/

The times I have used these ideas it has helped, at least temporarily. They're also as kid-friendly as you can get. The primary issue of my partner's inability to trust is the real problem, and that one is hers to solve.

[Hope26]

Hi ydrys017,

I totally understand and agree with your feelings about validation, at least when there is unreasonable anger directed at you.  It is challenging enough to practice not JADEing, and responding minimally or not at all, as you said you've been doing.  But that is what has worked for me.  By keeping my response minimal and appearing (to him at least) unemotional, uBPDh's bad moods pass more quickly and life is easier.  That causes me some silent anger too, but we don't have fights that go on for days like we used to.  We don't have children, and I can't even imagine the difficulties of raising them with a BPD partner.  Congratulations to  you for hanging in there to keep the peace.

[formflier]

Keep working the validation.  Also work on it with your kids.

I was not raised to be a validater.  I was raised to praise people, say thanks and all that.

Anyway, I still struggle with validation, it is a critical life skill.  Keep trying.

For instance, years ago I would have tried to explain to a kid that a booboo wasn't that bad, which would actually be invalidating.

I believe my kids respond better to me know that I am listening and "being there with them" in their emotion, than trying to redirect it.

In front of the kids, you may want to "brush it off" a little more firmly.  Consider this for a while before doing it.

You get "jabbed" and very calmly but firmly tell him to "Stop (identify the thing), that is not ok to do to me"  then walk away.

Again, critical it is not yelling or "triggered". 

When kids are around you do want to minimize exposure, but on the other hand, you want to teach good relational skills.

Note:  Other times not noticing a slight may be best, or asking for help understanding the point they are making.

FF

[waitingwife]

I was also raised to praise, be grateful and righteous so validating when the opposite person(be it my uBPDH, mom, kid) is very hard and specially when my partner's unfair rage is directed towards me in addition to the patenting battles we go through everyday. So please suggest some more reading to be more grounded during the rage. What has helped me in the past is just detaching myself from my partner during his dysfunctio and acting unemotional and then he cycles through his emotions and comes back to us. But layely that is slowly building up silent anger within me and I battle with that causing me longer to bounce back into my normal self. Inuse to be able to just go through that silent anger without any reaction and be okay but it's getting harder coz  the last 2 rages, H said this is how is and it's better for us to accept the situation and move through it. I am anperson who wants to do better next time and co-dependancy is another problem I am suspecting with me... .I am being torn out of my mind thinking about co-dependant and how I have enabled his behaviour towards me all these years... .How could I have not figured this out earlier? It's like all the bad moments of my past are being dumped as the bad garbage truck on my mind. I have made an appointment with my therapist for next Monday coz I was really spiralling down and could use some help. In this drama, we have a very sweet 5 year old and I want her to look life straight in the eye and be as strong as possible. I feel like my dad had some traits of some kinda PD and my mom so so co-dependent and all those flashbacks of him giving her the ST and she crying at nights coz he is misunderstanding her are haunting me.

[Chilibean13]

I've learned that validation has to be done at a certain point. If you wait too long to validate, it's too late and the blow up will happen. I'm also learning that if my validation is not sincere, my H will see through it also.

If I'm honest with myself I know when my validation is not genuine, but done in hopes of just quieting him down. Validation isn't  to stop the argument; it should be done to keep your own peace. That seems to be the key factor in how effective it is or not.

[ydrys017]

Thanks all.  I guess I'll plod along while attempting validation, even that is difficult given 18+ months of silent treatment.  Just about any discussion cycles down very quickly, and I exit.  The only thing we are able to discuss is the logistics for the kid's activities, and even that subject is prone to dysregulations - which I exit before they cycle out of control.  Non's obviously have a high tolerance for pain... .

[C.Stein]

Personally I find there is a very fine line between validation and patronization.  When the former is received as the latter it can blow up in your face.  Also when attempting to validate but you are actually patronizing this is not going to do any good.  I believe when you are walking too close to that line the better course of action is no action at all.  Just let it burn out on it's own without adding fuel to the fire.

[an0ught]

Hi ydrys017,

Thanks all.  I guess I'll plod along while attempting validation, even that is difficult given 18+ months of silent treatment.  Just about any discussion cycles down very quickly, and I exit.  The only thing we are able to discuss is the logistics for the kid's activities, and even that subject is prone to dysregulations - which I exit before they cycle out of control.  Non's obviously have a high tolerance for pain... .

1) ignoring is not a good strategy but at time a valid tactical move. Best is to leave asap when person is upset too much to be reachable with validation. There is a big difference between staying (and target of abuse) and boundary (not being there, not being target of abuse) in what happens in the mind of the pwBPD.

2) to what extent are you able to validate negative stuff that is radiating from her? Can you give examples where you do and where you struggle?

[storagecold]

I have to use both; the trick is deciding which to use when.

Typically, anything I say or do, or expression or walk, breathing, etc. can cause a problem. If uBPDw suspects that I'm being patronizing (i.e., trying to avoid an argument by validating), she will pounce. That's typically when I start to ignore and walk away. She will sometimes attempt to follow me around and escalate the situation (usually by saying something utterly horrible).

[ydrys017]

Hi ydrys017,

Thanks all.  I guess I'll plod along while attempting validation, even that is difficult given 18+ months of silent treatment.  Just about any discussion cycles down very quickly, and I exit.  The only thing we are able to discuss is the logistics for the kid's activities, and even that subject is prone to dysregulations - which I exit before they cycle out of control.  Non's obviously have a high tolerance for pain... .

1) ignoring is not a good strategy but at time a valid tactical move. Best is to leave asap when person is upset too much to be reachable with validation. There is a big difference between staying (and target of abuse) and boundary (not being there, not being target of abuse) in what happens in the mind of the pwBPD.

2) to what extent are you able to validate negative stuff that is radiating from her? Can you give examples where you do and where you struggle?

Well, when she is willing / able to discuss something, I can validate her feelings without patronizing - I agree that there can be a fine line between the two, and I've found that I'm perceived as validating if I don't try too hard at it!  The opportunities are slim right now as I've changed the game and the ST is in full force.  This is very aggravating, so I stick to my boundaries at the slightest hint of a dysreg - perhaps that is my concern, I feel like I'm not doing enough to break the ST stalemate. On a brighter side, we don't fight in front of the kids very often and I am able to buffer them pretty well - oh, and I make sure to keep them laughing, no matter how bad I feel inside.