IS IT BPD?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

My partner hasn't been diagnosed with BPD but I am convinced that he has it. He has sought help for mental issues and has been on anti depressants for 22 years but we are in the UK and the NHS mental health services and generally useless. (We can't afford a private therapist). I have noted briefly some of the behaviours he displays, these are just the first that come to mind, can anybody relate to any of these?

Outside entity (God) cursing him.

Spouse daughter mother in law evil.

Glased unfocused eyes when in anger mode.

Unfeeling, indifferent.

Always making a drama out of small things.

Always seeing problems with everything.

Every small problem magnified to major disaster.

Depression long periods.

Shorter occasional highs.

Complete lack of sympathy when loved ones ill.

Everything always about him.

Attention seeking.

Falling out with friends and bosses (including physical fights).

Acting like a dough eyed sad little boy.

Feelings of everybody knows something that he hasn't worked out yet.

Listening to lyrics of songs to try to discover meanings.

Socially uncomfortable unless on a mental high.

Severe nicotine addiction.

Chronic cannabis use.

Excessive alcohol use.

Occasional ranting for hours at me about how everything is my fault.

Out of work for long periods.

Using insults to provoke feelings of low self esteem and anger in me.

[moo22]

My partner hasn't been diagnosed with BPD but I am convinced that he has it. He has sought help for mental issues and has been on anti depressants for 22 years but we are in the UK and the NHS mental health services and generally useless. (We can't afford a private therapist). I have noted briefly some of the behaviours he displays, these are just the first that come to mind, can anybody relate to any of these?

Outside entity (God) cursing him.

Spouse daughter mother in law evil.

Glased unfocused eyes when in anger mode.

Unfeeling, indifferent.

Always making a drama out of small things.

Always seeing problems with everything.

Every small problem magnified to major disaster.

Depression long periods.

Shorter occasional highs.

Complete lack of sympathy when loved ones ill.

Everything always about him.

Attention seeking.

Falling out with friends and bosses (including physical fights).

Acting like a dough eyed sad little boy.

Feelings of everybody knows something that he hasn't worked out yet.

Listening to lyrics of songs to try to discover meanings.

Socially uncomfortable unless on a mental high.

Severe nicotine addiction.

Chronic cannabis use.

Excessive alcohol use.

Occasional ranting for hours at me about how everything is my fault.

Out of work for long periods.

Using insults to provoke feelings of low self esteem and anger in me.

[moo22]

BTW my father was an alcoholic, he was adopted after forming a bond with his natural mother (I'm not aware of the exact age he was) myself and my mom where always treading on eggshells around him and he was prone to unexpected outburst of anger or he would be extremely withdrawn, reading books. My moms father died of a sleeping pill overdose when she was a teenager. My mom seems to be clinging on and controlling me since my dad died for fear of been alone, (she is in her seventies now) I feel that our family is awash with BPD relationships and I have only just discovered that there is a name for it.

[moo22]

  Starting to feel invisible, my whole life has been blown apart, people read but don't reply! Is this just a place for people who have had a five minute relationship with a BPD and like to whine on about it. Sorry if I sound unsympathetic, that isn't my nature at all but am beginning to wonder why I am on this board. I thought it was a place for support, please correct me if I am wrong.

[Rmbrworst]

It looks like you posted this very early in the morning, people do not post as much at this time.  Also, when you make a new thread here, eventually a moderater will come and welcome you. 

I understand you're going through a hard time.  I would respond more myself but I'm getting ready for work and I can't.  However I wanted to stop by and say nobody is ignoring you.  Some threads take off and others do not.  Sometimes people here just don't know the answers to questions as well.

Your best bet is to read the 9 DSM traits for BPD and see if they match up.

[C.Stein]

I highly recommend you read these and come back with questions.  

https://bpdfamily.com/content/borderline-personality-disorder

https://bpdfamily.com/content/what-borderline-personality-disorder


Many of the things you have listed may or may not be related to BPD.  In order to get a good grasp on the disorder a basic understanding of how it is diagnosed is required.  Once you have this then the pieces of the puzzle may begin to fall into place.

Also, are you posting on the right board?  It appears you are still in a relationship so a better board to post on would be the improving board.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?board=6.0

[moo22]

Sorry I'm in the UK and not thinking about the time difference! Ignore minor rant please. I have looked at symptom list and yes he does tick most of the boxes.

[Driver]

Hi Moo22,

It is difficult to say if someone is BPD or not only from the traits you posted.

However, if it can help you, here is a good read about BPD (don't forget that it is always the best that a psychologist sees the person before labeling him/her on a forum by people who aren't professionals.

BPD Symptoms:

There are nine specific diagnostic criteria (symptoms) for borderline personality disorder defined in the

Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition, Text Revision (referred to as DSM-IV-TR, or just DSM-IV) published in 2000 by the American Psychiatric Association.1  In order to be diagnosed with borderline disorder, you must have five of the nine criteria.

It is now common to list the symptoms of the disorder in four groups or dimensions:

1. Excessive, unstable and poorly regulated emotional responses.

The most commonly affected emotions are anger, anxiety and depression. Of the nine DSM-IV criteria for borderline disorder, three fall into this group:

-Affective (emotional) instability including intense, episodic emotional anguish, irritability, and anxiety/ panic attacks

-Anger that is inappropriate, intense and difficult to control, and

-Chronic feelings of emptiness

In addition, if you suffer from borderline disorder, you may also experience

Emotional over reactivity (“emotional storms”)

Emotional responses that are occasionally under reactive, and

Chronic boredom

2. Impulsive behaviors that are harmful to you or to others.

Two of the DSM-IV criteria for borderline disorder are in this group:

-Self-damaging acts such as excessive spending, unsafe and inappropriate sexual conduct, substance abuse, reckless driving, and binge eating, and

-Recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, threats, or self-injurious behavior

Also, you may engage in other impulsive behaviors such as actions that are harmful and destructive to yourself, others or to property.

3. You may have an inaccurate view of yourself and others, and experience a high level of suspiciousness and other misperceptions.

Two of the DSM-IV criteria for borderline disorder are included in this group:

-A markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of your self (your identity), and

-Paranoid ideation or severe dissociative episodes (transient and stress related)

In addition, you may consistently experience

Expectations of negative and harmful attitudes and behaviors from most people

Impaired social reasoning under stress

Impaired memory under stress

4. Finally, you may experience tumultuous and very unstable relationships.

The final two DSM-IV criteria fall in this group:

-You may engage in frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment, and

-Your relationships may be very intense, unstable, and alternate between the extremes of over idealizing and undervaluing people who are important to you

You may also recognize that you have overly dependent and clinging behavior in important relationships.

[Dutched]

Yes you are right, this is a place for support which have great resources (topics and highly recommend by professionals – even the NHS-  -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/bpdfamily.com , learning centre) and NO you are NOT invisible.

Of course you want to understand the symptoms you described are typically or not.

But reading your story please do not concentrate on that.

You made a great ‘discovery’ already by questioning your partners behaviour! That is a great accomplishment by itself!

As experienced (30+ yrs) things in a way can be dormant for yrs. but eventually will prevail and deteriorate the r/s, as we think to act / respond towards the adult person we see.

But not realising (and how could we!) that the adult body we see is ‘only’ the skin of an emotional 4-6 yr. old kid.

So we unwillingly reinforce certain behaviour as a 4-6 yr old has no clear view of the world, has no clear understanding that action will cause reaction, has no clear view that some behaviour is not done, etc.

First of all, I advice you to concentrate on your wellbeing and that of your D13!

Get your strength back, so go out to family, friends, a local activity, shopping with D13, etc. Up to you to invite your partner, but only ask him 1 time (!), a no is a no, so go out alone (or with D13).

While reading and learning about BPD and Cluster B behaviour start re-establishing your own boundaries which get you back on your feet.

Hope it might help for now.

[moo22]

Thank you so much for all your input, it really is a great help to know that people are listening, I have kept things hidden from all my friends and family, I really don't know how I do it sometimes.

[moo22]

I am on this board because I need to end the relationship but it's damage limitation that I am trying to achieve by better understanding the condition, maybe I do need to be on a different board to achieve that? If my B/F isn't BPD then he is just a vile bully with no understanding of the emotional upset and mental pain he has caused me over the years. He has sought help from a therapist but they thought he may have Cyclothymia (he had gone there thinking he may be bipolar) I now don't believe it is either but I may be wrong. He didn't follow up the therapy due to an accident and now I've tentatively mentioned BPD to him, he says there's nothing wrong with him and the way he is is down to circumstance (circumstances caused by me in his mind). He has given up smoking nicotine recently which makes him slightly psychosed, at least it seems that way to me but when his moods change again in a few weeks he may be more open to getting help.

[once removed]

hi moo22 

its not advisable to approach a person with the notion that they are mentally ill; youre not going to find much of anyone who would be receptive to it. if your partner is indeed mentally ill (no one here can diagnose) then you must understand that his belief system is likely quite entrenched, so its understandable he would say theres nothing wrong with him and shift the blame onto you.

this is the detaching board, and you suspect BPD, so i think youre in good company. if you are looking for ways to end the relationship with minimal damage, this article we have here may help: https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a110.htm

[MapleBob]

I am on this board because I need to end the relationship but it's damage limitation that I am trying to achieve by better understanding the condition, maybe I do need to be on a different board to achieve that? 

Well, first of all, welcome! 

Second of all, two things jump out at me when reading what you've told us. The first is the bit I've bolded above. If you really feel that you need to end this relationship (that's the bottom line, really) then you can find support on this board for detaching/healing/learning about how to do that effectively. A good start is to read the sticky thread called LESSONS on this board, and follow the links, and study up and find the bits that really apply to your particular situation:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=136462.0

The other thing that jumps out at me is something that I myself had to learn when I first landed here: if your pwBPD doesn't have all nine traits then they are not diagnosable clinically as suffering from BPD. That doesn't mean that someone who has only eight of nine traits is any easier to tolerate in a relationship just because they aren't diagnosable! My ex is probably one of these.

[C.Stein]

I am on this board because I need to end the relationship but it's damage limitation that I am trying to achieve by better understanding the condition, maybe I do need to be on a different board to achieve that? 

Well, first of all, welcome! 

Second of all, two things jump out at me when reading what you've told us. The first is the bit I've bolded above. If you really feel that you need to end this relationship (that's the bottom line, really) then you can find support on this board for detaching/healing/learning about how to do that effectively. A good start is to read the sticky thread called LESSONS on this board, and follow the links, and study up and find the bits that really apply to your particular situation:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=136462.0

The other thing that jumps out at me is something that I myself had to learn when I first landed here: if your pwBPD doesn't have all nine traits then they are not diagnosable clinically as suffering from BPD. That doesn't mean that someone who has only eight of nine traits is any easier to tolerate in a relationship just because they aren't diagnosable! My ex is probably one of these.

Bob,

You only need 5 of the 9 traits to be diagnosed per DSM4.  DSM5 approaches it a bit differently but it is still essentially the same.  This is why BPD is classified a spectrum disorder and every individual is different in the outward expression of the disorder.

[MapleBob]

You only need 5 of the 9 traits to be diagnosed per DSM4.  DSM5 approaches it a bit differently but it is still essentially the same.  This is why BPD is classified a spectrum disorder and every individual is different in the outward expression of the disorder.

Oh, weird. I thought I read that somewhere. Still: same advice applies. "Not diagnosable" or "diagnosed otherwise" doesn't mean that their behaviors aren't spot-on BPD/spectrum.

[khibomsis]

moo22, I am in the same situation. Got on this board because of my uBPD mom, started posting for support when my niece 15 got diagnosed with BPD, and then realized I had been in therapy for years over one, possibly two BPD exes. So now I'm pretty freaked out. And in a way I guess I am dealing with it now because I am in a safe secure relationship with somebody who loves me to bits and has really stood by me through the tough times. It is as if I am now safe enough to confront the many things I have been dealing with by building such strong walls around me I did not have to see what was beyond them. But it makes sense that my FOO would have predisposed me to have relationships with BPD people. Dysregulation, rages, substance abuse, scapegoating, emotional neglect and  denial was all I ever knew. I thought of it as normal. I guess the one question we all ask on this board is what hooks us into these relationships? Unless it is a child below the age of majority it always is a choice. In my case it was because I did not know any better. The question most of us get when first posting is what are you doing to take care of yourself? It certainly works for me. Day by day my way is getting a little bit clearer.

With your statement that you need to leave, trust me, there is no easy or civilized way of doing it. Just make an exit plan that safeguards you and your child's safety and leave. With both my exes the time it got really ugly is when I left. So if that is what you want to do don't try and make it better. There is nothing you can do but take care of yourself You will be glad you did.

[moo22]

Hello Khibomsis, It great to hear you are in a normal loving relationship now. I fear that once I end this relationship I will either fall for somebody with BPD or similar troubles or end up alone to prevent that from happening. I always found it impossible to open up to people before I met my current b/f but never felt that way with him, I guess I felt flawed and knew (in my head) if I showed people the real me they wouldn't like what they saw and my fragile self worth couldn't cope with that but then I meet someone who subconsciously I realised had "troubles" so I could open my heart to him. i just find it hard to believe I could have a normal loving supportive relationship. As much as I have tried to build feeling of self worth over the years I guess deep down I still feel flawed.

[Dutched]

Hi Moo22

I didn’t realise you are having very, very serious thoughts about ending the r/s., maybe in fact decided to do so

In case of that, the Legal section of the Board can be very helpful, must say I don’t know if someone is familiair with the UK legal system (I am not), so ask for it.

Now the emotional part of it. That will be a very, very bumping road, specially in the way you described your situation. Do not forget you shared many, many years, there are many shared memories, good ones, as well as those terrible ones. You can’t throw that away when you end it, that is memory you will have to carry with you.

That is the bond you share.

That is the bond also your daughter share with her parents. She will suffer too. It is well known that teenagers are very vulnerable for the consequences of divorce. Despite all that is written out on the internet about the resilience and flexibility kids have, the excuses made that anything is better than… etc., fact is that something inside broke in order to fully trust to create and sustaining emotional bonds in their lives. I could be over anyway, anytime. Seems special girls are more vulnerable. (see Wallerstein – the unexpected legacy of divorce)

A summary found at www.waynegrudem.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Summary-of-Judith-Wallerstein-book-on-consequences-of-divorce1.pdf

I translated (I am not native English) a text from many years ago that someone cam up with in my local support group (t didn’t help with exw, as exw categorically refused treatment) but for some others I was told, it made just the difference to accept treatment.

Just being hopeful that it can be a sort of help for your husband in the interest of you and your daghter.

A parent who sees her/himself through the child’s eyes only, should find the life-saving motivation to seek treatment!

See the unrestrained love for you that can be found in the gleam of the child’s eyes!

Your child, the most precious you have!

Doesn’t he/she deserves that?

What is your answer to your child, parent?

Seeking excuses for yourself and condemning your child to life long?

Facing yourself for your child, your most precious till death?

You parent, you, being the most precious person for your child!

So ask yourself can YOU knowingly hurt and condemn your child?

YOU choose, but remember a life sentence… as a gift for the most precious you have…

As much my experiences can be of some help in divorcing.   

# have a really good talk with your lawyer and make very clear it is not an average case!

# lawyers don’t see the risk as we see, so “educate” him, to think “out of the box”!

# keep in control, keep your mind sharp, question his advices, strategy!

# You know your ex, feelings = facts… so use it in your advantage

# a BPD will try to act behind your back, prepare and stay prepared

However that might be easy. Yes, because of their dissociative way of thinking. Remember it is a very, very emotional process for a BPD (as for us, but really more for them!). In such a mental state they stay predictable(!), use that.

# let the stbex shoot the ball, but be aware you have your FACTS right.

# DOCUMENT and DOCUMENT ! So save/print/copy whatever can be of use! Make notes, mentioning dates/ times and (if any)  even witnesses!

# safe copies or better original paper regarding to property, insurances, bank statements, etc.

# guard / store stuff from your side of the family (inheritances) that is precious.

# open a 2nd bank account!

# being to buy some extra household/kitchen stuff, cloths, bed linen, etc. Yes small and very handy stuff, but you need to think into your future!

# he will try to hurt you on your most sensitive spot. You know which it is, so be prepared => think outside that box to safeguard your belongings/interests…

In my case she concentrated on only 4 points of which she thought would hurt me. We played sitting duck until…

She had 2 yrs. to prepare the split of the belongings, she finally failed as her descriptions were considered by court to be “to vague to split”( a cooking pan in the kitchen…=> which one the court asked?)

Even her own childhood belongings were forgotten, and the list go’s on.

But oh yeah, she didn’t forgot to claim pieces that are in my family for a 3-4 generations… to hurt, to destroy.

She failed with that too, it was legally already secured which she knew, but dissociative tried…

Good luck for now and stay strong !

[moo22]

hi moo22 

its not advisable to approach a person with the notion that they are mentally ill; youre not going to find much of anyone who would be receptive to it. if your partner is indeed mentally ill (no one here can diagnose) then you must understand that his belief system is likely quite entrenched, so its understandable he would say theres nothing wrong with him and shift the blame onto you.

Hello Once Removed, I totally understand what you are saying, I only casually mentioned it to him because he has sought help from mental health professionals in the past and has been on anti depressants for 22 years, he knows in his lucid phases that he has a problem and mentioned BPD to me in the past but I had no idea what it was at the time. I did pick the wrong mood to mention it to him but at some point in the future he will be more rational and I hope for his sake that he gets the help he needs.

[warhar]

Hello Moo

Whilst making preparations to leave don't forget to get some counselling/therapy for yourself too. I can't emphasise how important that is (and this is coming from someone who used to scoff at 'all that psych nonsense'!)

Good luck!

[moo22]

Thanks Warhar, I definitely think counselling would be a good thing, I will make an appointment on Monday.   

[moo22]

Hi Dutched, thank you for all your advice, it's a great help. Our daughter is desperate for us to split up (we never actually got married, I now think it is so I couldn't divorce him, which I would of done long ago). She realised he had mental health problems that were effecting our family badly for the last few years and sadly has grown to hate him, I have always tried to highlight any positive traits he has but she is not interested. She wants a better relationship with her father but feels the only way to achieve this is by him living elsewhere. So although I know us splitting up will effect her, I am sure it will be a far more mentally healthy situation for her, as long as he doesn't completely loose his grip on reality when the time comes.

[moo22]

I'm starting to fear that I have BPD tendancies and that baby sitting my messed up b/f has overshadowed my own problems so I could ignore them. I don't like doubting my own sanity like this and I must stay focused for now. 

My main problem lies in the fact due to b/f inability to hold down work, we live in a flat owned by my mom who lives in a flat above us, so myself and my daughter moving out isn't an option, plus we have no money to do so anyway. So I have to somehow negotiate b/f's moods with the outcome of him moving out and limit the trauma to my daughter and myself, not an easy job!

[khibomsis]

moo 22 I think growing up in a BPD FOO it would be impossible for us not to have some BPD patterns of behaviour. I never knew any better, in fact, the more I do the emotional work, the more horrified I get about how I used to be. It doesn't have to be genetic, meaning, it is not necessary to have a brain abnormality. It is just that as a child growing up I learn that it is 'normal' to dysregulate. I did not know that emotional neglect is not love. I had no idea it was possible not to FOG. For many years I stayed very LC with my FOO becuase they can trigger me just like that. So I wouldn't beat up on myself if I were you. Great news that you have decided to seek counselling! Also good that you can see how rescuing your bf is taking attention away from your own inner work. How do you manage to be so resilient? What are your favourite ways of practicing self-care?

[moo22]

Hello again Khibomsis, I can totally understand what you are saying, I do display some BPD characteristics but that is just the way I have learnt to respond to certain situations, and I have certainly displayed emotional dyregulation in the past. I have used alcohol to deal with the stress of my relationship as well, I'm not talking been drunk everyday but enough to feel tired all the time and unfocused. I have stopped drinking almost completely now (apart from a couple of glasses of wine once a week) and I am starting to think more clearing and it is really helping me to stay calm. As for self care, well I have to admit I don't really do a lot for that, my passion for life is pretty low these days, I am lucky to be self employed and my work is fairly creative, so I guess that helps to keep me sane but I know I must start thinking about myself again and start doing things for me.

[khibomsis]

good for you about the drinking, moo 22! it must have been very stressful dealing with bf, but it says you must have been a strong person to be surviving and dealing with it.I work a lot at staying calm too, have discovered that though I seldom rage at others I rage with myself fairly often. Another hangover from my childhood where rage was the emotional background to everything. All the children and grandchildren carry constant anxiety because when it is quiet you know it is just the calm before the storm.So learning deep breathing techniques to calm myself down. Definitely taking more care of you is a step forward.