Pain/Grief Cooties & Healing

[anon72]

I have now been low contact for one month - have improved so much in a month.  And am extremely grateful for that (as am working like crazy with therapy, experiencing my grief/pain, trying new things, trying to keep busy etc. etc.).  Staying on the forum.  Using CBT/mindfulness.

I was shaking at times, had massive anxiety, could barely talk to people for the first month at work etc.   And looked very sad and probably miserable - but I was just trying to survive (and probably still do - even though I am trying to be as positive as possible).   Accordingly, people I guess felt sorry for me at the beginning (not that I asked for that - as I hate pity).  So one of the work friends I had distanced himself quite a bit - had also been a day trip with him somewhere once - and looked like I was in pain I guess (because I was at the time). 

I am working on moving like crazy towards the light and am getting there.  Am more peaceful at times.  And can actually smile and laugh at times (if I don't feel like it - I still fake it .  Anyways, one of the things that I am finding is that people avoid me and I feel like people are scared of pain/grief cooties (although noone knows what is going on). 

Guess it probably looks like I am just wallowing in my own pain/sadness, but I am definitely not - and who cares anyways (I know - am working on not caring slowly but surely).    Anyways, it is irrelevant what people think (I know), as I cannot control that.  But how can I move beyond the grief/pain cooties, or do I just need to continue looking outside my own workplace for friendship/companionship until people eventually forget?   It just really hurts, but I guess I cannot expect people to understand such a complicated situation, and not something you can really share with someone who doesn't know you at a deep level.

Can anyone else relate to what I am talking about?  Thanks for listening.  This is one of the things that I am struggling with at the moment, so I can continue moving forward.

[joeramabeme]

Hey Anon72, I can relate.  I am more than 7 months since she moved out and 2 since the divorce.  I have found that people have varying thresholds for listening to grief (emotional kind).  My firsthand experiences have ranged from telling one friend that my wife was going to leave and her response was F her and then changed the topic all the way through another friend that has stayed with me while listening and being supportive.

This process has taken quite some time and has had moments of liberation mixed with times of continuing to fall down the rabbit hole.

I was shaking at times, had massive anxiety, could barely talk to people for the first month at work etc. 

Your story sounds as if you have had quite a traumatic experience or perhaps have had trauma re-triggered?  Do you have a therapist?  Coming from trauma or being traumatized is a serious matter in itself.  It really is worthy of seeing a therapist and there is absolutely no shame in reaching out.

But how can I move beyond the grief/pain cooties, or do I just need to continue looking outside my own workplace for friendship/companionship until people eventually forget?

I think there are friends that you can meet or perhaps know but are unaware that they would be supportive. 

I don't understand the part about "they eventually forget"?  Their reaction is about them, not you.  If they are not interested in what is going on with you, they probably don't remember more than you are in a bad space. I have found it best to keep personal matters as far from the workplace as possible.  The social norms work are nothing like personal lives - be cautious.  Do you reach out at work because you need a place to reach out to with what is going on?

[anon72]

Hey Anon72, I can relate.  I am more than 7 months since she moved out and 2 since the divorce.  I have found that people have varying thresholds for listening to grief (emotional kind).  My firsthand experiences have ranged from telling one friend that my wife was going to leave and her response was F her and then changed the topic all the way through another friend that has stayed with me while listening and being supportive.

This process has taken quite some time and has had moments of liberation mixed with times of continuing to fall down the rabbit hole.

I was shaking at times, had massive anxiety, could barely talk to people for the first month at work etc.  

Your story sounds as if you have had quite a traumatic experience or perhaps have had trauma re-triggered?  :)o you have a therapist?  Coming from trauma or being traumatized is a serious matter in itself.  It really is worthy of seeing a therapist and there is absolutely no shame in reaching out.

But how can I move beyond the grief/pain cooties, or do I just need to continue looking outside my own workplace for friendship/companionship until people eventually forget?

I think there are friends that you can meet or perhaps know but are unaware that they would be supportive.  

I don't understand the part about "they eventually forget"?  Their reaction is about them, not you.  If they are not interested in what is going on with you, they probably don't remember more than you are in a bad space. I have found it best to keep personal matters as far from the workplace as possible.  The social norms work are nothing like personal lives - be cautious.  :)o you reach out at work because you need a place to reach out to with what is going on?

Thanks Joeramabeme for sharing, greatly appreciated.  

I am living overseas (been here for 2.5 years) and don't really feel like there is anyone here that I could talk about it with.  One of the things about moving around as an international expat is that your good friends are spread far and wide - and the only person I have tried to talk about it with is my sister (which has been wonderful).  

When I say I was shaking, I was probably exaggerating a little (my BPD mum did that for so many years), just felt very anxious (probably wasn't actually shaking).  But was incredibly anxious.  Yes, I have a therapist, and that is helping a lot, thank goodness

Yes, you are right.  In my family, it was always about what everyone else thought or how they perceived us (uBPD mother's idea).  I know - who cares - still reforming my "inner terrorist" :D  Accordingly, I am still in a space of learning to not care what others think (as that was the most important thing with my uBPD mother).  Regarding personal matters and the workplace - you are completely correct.  I haven't talked about with anyone there - nor do I plan to - only once mentioned that I was processing stuff.  

I guess the weird thing about being an expat - is that much of our social/work lives are intertwined - so sometimes it is difficult.  But that is cool, I am continuing to look for social outlets outside of work, most definitely.  Thanks again for reminding me of stuff

And I hope you continue to heal and get better, a big hug!

[heartandwhole]

Hi anon72,

I can very much relate to your feelings about the challenge of finding supportive friends during and after the breakup with pwBPD. I am (and was) also an expat at the time, and my friends are all over the place as well. It was very difficult to explain the rather deep depression that came over me to my friends and family. Most didn't understand, but I have to say that they tried (and I tend to minimize, so I kept the explanations as simple as I could), which meant a lot to me.

I agree with joeramabeme that work colleagues might not be the best route to take, I experienced what felt like a harsh blow when one of mine questioned my "mental health" at a meeting.    He had heard something from another colleague who is actually a friend of mine—well, you get the picture. It's hard!

I wonder if when communicating with your friends and making new ones that you can simple say something along the lines of "I've just broken up with someone I felt extremely close to, and it's bringing up a lot of pain and grief from my past that I wasn't aware of." Just to let people know that this breakup is not like any other, and that your need for understanding and compassion is much greater now as you work through it.

My therapist was the one person I could really share all with, and that helped me so much. So, I'm glad that you are working with a therapist. I think finding a good one is golden.

Also: I do think one month is not very long, as far as moving forward. Everyone is different, of course. It took me close to 9 months to start feeling like I was coming out of survival mode and actually looking forward to things. I think in many ways these kinds of breakups can feel like a lonely journey, precisely because it is hard for other people who haven't been through it to understand. Nothing new for me, I am used to dealing with my feelings on my own from my FOO dynamics, but knowing that people cared about me and supported me while maybe not really understanding how hard it was still helped.

You are doing great, anon72. Keep on keeping' on, and let yourself be surprised by the recovery journey. It doesn't always go the way we imagine, but I was pleasantly surprised, too.  

heartandwhole

[anon72]

Hi anon72,

I can very much relate to your feelings about the challenge of finding supportive friends during and after the breakup with pwBPD. I am (and was) also an expat at the time, and my friends are all over the place as well. It was very difficult to explain the rather deep depression that came over me to my friends and family. Most didn't understand, but I have to say that they tried (and I tend to minimize, so I kept the explanations as simple as I could), which meant a lot to me.

I agree with joeramabeme that work colleagues might not be the best route to take, I experienced what felt like a harsh blow when one of mine questioned my "mental health" at a meeting.    He had heard something from another colleague who is actually a friend of mine—well, you get the picture. It's hard!

I wonder if when communicating with your friends and making new ones that you can simple say something along the lines of "I've just broken up with someone I felt extremely close to, and it's bringing up a lot of pain and grief from my past that I wasn't aware of." Just to let people know that this breakup is not like any other, and that your need for understanding and compassion is much greater now as you work through it.

My therapist was the one person I could really share all with, and that helped me so much. So, I'm glad that you are working with a therapist. I think finding a good one is golden.

Also: I do think one month is not very long, as far as moving forward. Everyone is different, of course. It took me close to 9 months to start feeling like I was coming out of survival mode and actually looking forward to things. I think in many ways these kinds of breakups can feel like a lonely journey, precisely because it is hard for other people who haven't been through it to understand. Nothing new for me, I am used to dealing with my feelings on my own from my FOO dynamics, but knowing that people cared about me and supported me while maybe not really understanding how hard it was still helped.

You are doing great, anon72. Keep on keeping' on, and let yourself be surprised by the recovery journey. It doesn't always go the way we imagine, but I was pleasantly surprised, too.  

heartandwhole

Hi Heartandwhole,

Thank you so much for sharing your experiences, greatly appreciated.  Whilst I haven't had a relationship break-up like you (which must be extremely intense), it has been figuring out what had been going on in my head for the last 40+ years (ie. because of all the FOG stuff with my uBPD mother).  

You are completely correct regarding the work thing, I have tried to not talk about it - the only thing I mentioned once to a superior was that "I was processing stuff" - which is pretty mild really.  Other than that, I don't talk about stuff - and would struggle if someone questioned my "mental health" also.  

Yes, good point, although I am really scared of sharing anything at this stage with many people.  Just been burned too many times with stuff like that (which we all have).  Yes, I am very grateful that I have found a good therapist, am very lucky.

Thanks for your reinforcement regarding the time period, you are right - it is still fairly short.  I guess that I am way too driven and treat everything like a project - when in actual fact - grief does not work like that.  Regarding a relationship - can totally imagine that it took you almost 9 months - makes total sense.  Not sure how long it will take me - I hope it will be sooner (as it is my mum) and I had a pretty ordinary year last year breaking up with a gf, quitting smoking and then having significant anxiety/depression - until I discovered the underlying issues (all this BPD stuff).  But am grateful that I figured that out and working on it.

Yes, very true, I guess we have had to learn how to deal with stuff in our original families - most definitely.  :)id you have BPD dynamics in your original family Heartandwhole - as I am not familiar with your story other than your broken relationship?  Thank you so much for your support and concern, it really is greatly appreciated!  This community rocks.

Big hug for you heartandwhole - I hope that your recovery continues to go from strength to strength.  ,

Anon72

[Grey Kitty]

Some thoughts about pain/grief/sadness, starting out that we live in a society that doesn't value these emotions, doesn't model people expressing them publicly, and doesn't show people how to support somebody who is feeling them. (And it is far worse for men!)

Have you ever seen somebody else at work who was obviously hurting/sad/grieving/depressed, and been able to reach out to them before? Please don't take this the wrong way--I'm not saying this to make you feel bad about times you didn't... .I'm saying this to help you understand how weird and awkward some of the people around you may feel... .explaining the "cooties"


Next question... .do you feel like you can trust people to be kind and supportive if you did acknowledge any of your feelings? When you were a kid, what happened? Were you taught not to show these feelings, or punished if you did?


And like heartandwhole said, perhaps coworkers are not a good choice to trust with these feelings, even if you do feel safe with the idea of sharing them at all.


Lastly a weird little story. There have been quite a few times in the last few years when I was VERY hurt and distressed. Walking is good for me in so many ways, so I would often be out walking in public, perhaps right on the verge of tears. While doing it at really sad times,I had this weird sad little fantasy... .that somebody would stop and ask me how I was doing, and actually care enough to want a real answer. A stranger, or perhaps a distant acquaintance. And I somehow vacillated between deflecting the question and answering it and feeling supported by this person in my little fantasy world.

What was really weird was that one time I actually had the opportunity. A stranger did show concern. And I deflected instead of engaging. I think it was a lesson I needed to learn. And looking back at another incident, I did learn that lesson; I took the other path last year in a similar situation with a different stranger. And I am very glad I did.

[anon72]

Some thoughts about pain/grief/sadness, starting out that we live in a society that doesn't value these emotions, doesn't model people expressing them publicly, and doesn't show people how to support somebody who is feeling them. (And it is far worse for men!)

Have you ever seen somebody else at work who was obviously hurting/sad/grieving/depressed, and been able to reach out to them before? Please don't take this the wrong way--I'm not saying this to make you feel bad about times you didn't... .I'm saying this to help you understand how weird and awkward some of the people around you may feel... .explaining the "cooties"


Next question... .do you feel like you can trust people to be kind and supportive if you did acknowledge any of your feelings? When you were a kid, what happened? Were you taught not to show these feelings, or punished if you did?


And like heartandwhole said, perhaps coworkers are not a good choice to trust with these feelings, even if you do feel safe with the idea of sharing them at all.


Lastly a weird little story. There have been quite a few times in the last few years when I was VERY hurt and distressed. Walking is good for me in so many ways, so I would often be out walking in public, perhaps right on the verge of tears. While doing it at really sad times,I had this weird sad little fantasy... .that somebody would stop and ask me how I was doing, and actually care enough to want a real answer. A stranger, or perhaps a distant acquaintance. And I somehow vacillated between deflecting the question and answering it and feeling supported by this person in my little fantasy world.

What was really weird was that one time I actually had the opportunity. A stranger did show concern. And I deflected instead of engaging. I think it was a lesson I needed to learn. And looking back at another incident, I did learn that lesson; I took the other path last year in a similar situation with a different stranger. And I am very glad I did.

Grey Kitty, your comments definitely made me think and reflect.  Yes, I do remember when there was a fellow worker who was struggling and getting angry at people (and had cried at times) - and I completely steered away from her - now that I remember.  But I always thought that it was just because she was an angry person - but now I reflect on it - she was obviously going through a trying time in her life. 

And in answer to your question, I never felt really trusting to share my feelings as a child (as often they would be used against me by my mother - brought up again later etc. etc. - all very manipulative), so that I struggle even as an adult to talk about my feelings with someone without feeling like I am burdening them.  Even when someone is listening attentively - I always apologize for burdening them - now I realize where I get that from.  Even when I talk to my therapist - I still find it difficult to actually say what I am feeling deep down - weird isn't it - how deep these feelings go.

And yes, wow, instead of deflecting - engaging instead - incredibly powerful indeed!

And yes indeed, you are both right, coworkers are not people to be sharing your feelings with, so am glad that I haven't.  I did learn a lesson many years ago when I was depressed in my first job after breaking up with a girlfriend - and mentioned it to one of the superiors at our school - who was not actually a very nice man - and he said something like he couldn't promise that it wouldn't go against my reference or share it or something similar (can't remember exactly - have blocked it out).  Suffice to say, I learnt my lesson

Thanks 

[Grey Kitty]

Random thought about coworkers... .

Unless you've already got much more than being coworkers in the relationship with them, good plan not to overshare with them. A simple statement like "I'm going through some personal stuff, if I seem a bit (angry, withdrawn, sad, whatever emotion you will be unable to hide), please be patient with me, it isn't anything about you or my job." might be OK.

If someday you see somebody acting out (like the woman you thought was "angry", consider some validation. Sometimes having another person reach out a little makes a huge difference, and perhaps you will be that person. You might be inviting HER to overshare a bit more than the coworker relationship justifies... .but you are a caring and trustworthy person. (And don't have to match by oversharing and putting yourself at risk)

And in answer to your question, I never felt really trusting to share my feelings as a child (as often they would be used against me by my mother - brought up again later etc. etc. - all very manipulative)

I didn't have it as bad as you did--My parents didn't do anything that abusive/manipulative if I shared something. But my parents never seemed to have genuine feelings, so there was still no good model of how to experience them, share them, or anything. Still stuff I had to learn.

I struggle even as an adult to talk about my feelings with someone without feeling like I am burdening them.  Even when someone is listening attentively - I always apologize for burdening them - now I realize where I get that from.  Even when I talk to my therapist - I still find it difficult to actually say what I am feeling deep down - weird isn't it - how deep these feelings go.

Not weird at all. Pretty normal to struggle with this.

It is also a true challenge to find and build relationships where it is safe to share such things. (Brené Brown has done TED talks and other videos on the subject that are really good; you might want to search for her on youtube if you haven't watched any before)

Meanwhile, a T is a safe person to share these things with--I'm very glad you have that kind of relationship.

[anon72]

Random thought about coworkers... .

Unless you've already got much more than being coworkers in the relationship with them, good plan not to overshare with them. A simple statement like "I'm going through some personal stuff, if I seem a bit (angry, withdrawn, sad, whatever emotion you will be unable to hide), please be patient with me, it isn't anything about you or my job." might be OK.

If someday you see somebody acting out (like the woman you thought was "angry", consider some validation. Sometimes having another person reach out a little makes a huge difference, and perhaps you will be that person. You might be inviting HER to overshare a bit more than the coworker relationship justifies... .but you are a caring and trustworthy person. (And don't have to match by oversharing and putting yourself at risk)

And in answer to your question, I never felt really trusting to share my feelings as a child (as often they would be used against me by my mother - brought up again later etc. etc. - all very manipulative)

Thanks Grey Kitty for your thoughts, greatly appreciated.  Makes sense.   

I didn't have it as bad as you did--My parents didn't do anything that abusive/manipulative if I shared something. But my parents never seemed to have genuine feelings, so there was still no good model of how to experience them, share them, or anything. Still stuff I had to learn.

I struggle even as an adult to talk about my feelings with someone without feeling like I am burdening them.  Even when someone is listening attentively - I always apologize for burdening them - now I realize where I get that from.  Even when I talk to my therapist - I still find it difficult to actually say what I am feeling deep down - weird isn't it - how deep these feelings go.

Not weird at all. Pretty normal to struggle with this.

It is also a true challenge to find and build relationships where it is safe to share such things. (Brené Brown has done TED talks and other videos on the subject that are really good; you might want to search for her on youtube if you haven't watched any before)

Meanwhile, a T is a safe person to share these things with--I'm very glad you have that kind of relationship.

[heartandwhole]

Hi anon72,

Excuse the long delay of replying to your reply, I was on vacation and have just gotten back into the swing of things.   Also, sorry that in my original reply I forgot that you are dealing with a parental situation, not a romantic relationship. I think Grey Kitty's advice about speaking to co-workers and friends with a "I'm going through a trying time personally right now" is spot on.

How are you feeling these days, anon72? Are you still NC with your mom for the most part?

Oh, and to answer your question: yes, I think that there are BPD traits in my family, specifically a sibling and maybe to a lesser extent a parent, too. I noticed after learning about BPD that more than one of my close friends exhibit traits (and I suspect one friend might have most of the traits/might be diagnosed).

Thank you for the hug, it is much appreciated—and here's a big one right back at ya  

heartandwhole

[heartandwhole]

*Meant to write LC, not NC