"I really enjoyed seeing you last night"

[formflier]

[  However that's not what this topic was about

Unicorn,

Can you start a topic about dealing with your resentment?

I would also recommend starting a topic about "Is my relationship "fine"?"

If you are avoiding those topics because they are not the point of a thread, then let's have a separate thread for those.  The threads/topics that you are posting and solving might seem like progress, because it likely appears to you that you are solving things and moving forward.

In my opinion your relationship is continuing to deteriorate.  Just the other day you were talking about detaching.   

Your relationship is not fine.

FF

[Notwendy]

Unicorn - I understand that this may feel like you are being criticized, but it isn't for that purpose. One of the kindest things my sponsor did for me was to help me see things about myself that I was not able to see. I learned a lot from her honesty, but my first ( an natural ) response was to first feel angry over what she said. However, sometimes the best support is from people who don't agree with us.

I understand that it is a betrayal to find out that someone you are in a relationship is married. It can be a huge shock to our own boundaries and values. I believe that you had no intention of being involved with a married person, but now that you are, you are in an uncomfortable situation, as this man says he is in love with you and yet is still somewhere in the process of divorcing his wife.

What to do? In a sense, you are in limbo, and so is he. It is frustrating that your limbo is contingent on his getting a divorce, putting this fate of the relationship completely out of your hands. No matter what you do, or say, your relationship with him can not proceed to marriage until this situation is resolved. How frustrating.

The solution to this, albeit maybe not the solution you wish for ( which is for him to be divorced, but you have no control over this) is to look into yourself at your own boundaries.

There is much to consider when in a relationship with someone who is married to someone else- beyond any personal or moral considerations:

A person who is married is at some level, not completely available to you for a relationship.

To agree to be in such a relationship, one has to accept the terms of that as one has no control over the person's marital status.

This boundary is up to you to decide. Being in a relationship with an intermittently unavailable person is not easy for some people, but your SO is who he is and the terms are what they are ( at least for now).

One does not have to be in physical contact, or be romantic, to be in a relationship. At the moment, you are in a relationship - an emotional, dramatic, relationship with a married man. This isn't what you would wish for, but it is what it is.

The boundary between being in a relationship and not,  includes emotion.  What you are doing is being moral by not being affectionate, yet the two of you are in emotional, personal, and dramatic space with each other. One solution is to not engage in emotional relationships with married men at all, including him. If you don't want to be in a relationship with a married man, then don't be in one. If you do choose to be in a relationship with a married man, then you also have to accept that you made this choice to be in a difficult and complicated situation.

Whatever this man has done, he is a human being. From what I can see, he gave you a compute, helped you fix it, and said that he is glad to see you. This isn't a crime. Yet on your side of the fence, you are irritated because it disrupted your schedule. This is a problem for you, but it isn't something he said, or did. This is how you saw it, and it is something to consider for you.

The fate of the divorce is not in your hands, but the interactions on your part and the boundary of whether or not to be in a relationship with a man who is still legally married to someone else is in yours. So is how you perceive him and interact with him.

And you too are human, with feelings, and this situation is hurtful and stressful for you. But it is what it is, and to honor your feelings might mean to consider if a relationship with someone who is married is something you wish to continue.

[Verbena]

I don't see how having a relationship with a disordered man who led you to believe he wasn't married when in fact he was, and still is married years later, could be "just fine."  

My point is this:  If your SO got a divorce tomorrow, then what?  His issues, your issues, will still be there.  If there's so much conflict and drama and work that has to be done just to get along with him now--when you're not married to him and he doesn't even live in your state--what is it going to be like if/when you do marry him?  

There are so many red flags all over your situation.  There were a few with my situation, too, over thirty years ago before I married my husband, but I didn't see them.  I wish I had because his behaviors have only become worse.  

Your relationship is a ton of work, and he isn't even physically around you.  




 

[unicorn2014]

I wish I could not care that he was legally married to someone else and if he hadn't proposed marriage to me I wouldn't care but he did and I do. There's no way to undo his marriage proposal. Does what I'm saying make any sense?

[unicorn2014]

I was talking about detaching because he had a volatile reaction to me telling him not to refer to our physical relationship while he was still married. That is definitely a hot button. The reason he mentioned it is because I told him my daughter had a hickey. I decided one way to avoid that conflict is to no longer tell him about my daughter's crush , that way he won't have a point of reference. My SO claims he's never had feelings for someone before so he can be quite immature sometimes.

[formflier]

  There's no way to undo his marriage proposal. 

Yes there is,

Say no.

FF

[Notwendy]

I don't know if it makes sense. It doesn't make sense to me in the contractual sense. A person can say anything they want to say, but if it isn't valid, it isn't valid.

A person who is married can not in all validity ,propose to someone else. Sure, he or she can say it, someone can say anything they want, but is it valid?

What if, for instance, I drew up a contract to sell you a house. You agreed. Then in the transaction, the bank calls and says the house is owned by someone else. It was not possible to sell you this house as it was not ever for sale in the first place.

The agreement is null and void. The contract doesn't have to be undone because it isn't a valid contract. Now, if I did that, it would be a nasty thing to do. People do nasty things. Sometimes we can not undo them. But at some point we have to deal with our reaction to it whether or not it is to be resentful, seek payback, let go.

Yes, he proposed to you. You can't undo that he said it, but a non valid proposal is nothing to undo because it isn't valid. But even if it was, a proposal is just that- and people can undo, take back or refuse a proposal. Even a valid proposal is not a permanent commitment.

[HurtinNW]

Unicorn, I can empathize with where you are at. Early in our relationship my ex proposed to me. This was huge news in our community and I was so, so excited. I've never been married and this was like a dream come true for me. We had a party, friends toasted, I was on cloud nine.

As the devaluation started, then the recycling, the plans for the wedding never materialized. In fact the whole idea seemed to grow further and further away as his problems manifested. Friends stopped asking when the date was, which was painful in a particular way. Then they stopped even asking if we were together.

It was humiliating for me to have to confront that this sacred promise of marriage was in fact a farce. I was very resistant to confronting that truth for a long time. I wanted to believe we were still engaged, even if none of our actions looked like it. How many engaged couples have a fiance who breaks up with them all the time? In the time we were supposed "engaged" we had several friends who actually met, engaged, got married, and had anniversaries. So much for that!

I could give a hundred examples, but over and over again I was forced to confront that the proposal wasn't founded on anything concrete and lasting. For him it was what he was feeling at the time. When he was idealizing me, he wanted to get married. When was devaluing me, he wanted to break up and be abusive. The sad truth is both feelings were real for him, and both equally shallow, fleeting and unreliable. In fact just a week or so before his last break up with me he wanted to go look at rings. By this time I felt like I was in a relationship with a volatile two year old. His proposal didn't mean anything real. I could lie to myself to the cows came home about it, but it was just part of his shifting emotions.

You write: "My SO claims he's never had feelings for someone before so he can be quite immature sometimes."

This raised   to me, because my ex often claimed he had never had feelings for anyone before. I should have paid attention to that. How does someone get to their 50s and not have feelings for someone? In my case I found out that he told his previous girlfriends the same thing. If it is true your SO hasn't ever had feelings for anyone before, then what does that say for him marrying someone he didn't love? He's making an excuse for his immaturity.

I also don't want you to feel criticized. I know how tremendously hard this is. But I see you veering between defending his behavior and defending your resentments about it, instead of stepping back and looking at the big picture, even if it is painful.

[unicorn2014]

I wanted to let you all know I have read your replies, tried to reply a couple of times, don't have anything worthwhile yet. Thank you for your time and energy. 

[Verbena]

Proposing to you when he is married to someone else is a big red flag in itself. Making you feel wrong for asking when he is going to get divorced while telling you you are the love of his life is another. He is playing games with you that won't end of you ever do indeed marry him.

[Sunfl0wer]

There's no way to undo his marriage proposal. Does what I'm saying make any sense?

NO

Quite bluntly... .

You are speaking like a victim. 

You are speaking like a person who is not in charge of her life but allows life to be in charge of you.

You are speaking like circumstances decide your fate... .vs you deciding on circumstances to be in.

You are speaking like a person who has no volition to make her own decisions.

To NOT decide... .

and allow HIM control

And allow his ex wife control

Etc

... .Are all choice YOU have made.

You cannot change a thing until you embrace the wonderment of being in charge of you and your decisions.

Please start using empowering language vs victim talk.

You are where you are... .

Because of your active choices today

You are the one who has power to change this.

It starts with owning your decisions and choices.

... .

For me to post... .and pretend like I am helping you by telling you the words to engage in the last conflict... .

Is enabling

Is engaging in drama

Is triangulating

Is rescuing

My boundaries don't allow that.

I rather be an example of good boundaries and not instruct you on how to engage in the latest drama.  Maybe my actions will be heard by someone.

This is NOT fine at all.  I think you know that.

[love4meNOTu]

There's no way to undo his marriage proposal. Does what I'm saying make any sense?

NO

Quite bluntly... .

You are speaking like a victim.  

You are speaking like a person who is not in charge of her life but allows life to be in charge of you.

You are speaking like circumstances decide your fate... .vs you deciding on circumstances to be in.

You are speaking like a person who has no volition to make her own decisions.

To NOT decide... .

and allow HIM control

And allow his ex wife control

Etc

... .Are all choice YOU have made.

You cannot change a thing until you embrace the wonderment of being in charge of you and your decisions.

Please start using empowering language vs victim talk.

You are where you are... .

Because of your active choices today

You are the one who has power to change this.

It starts with owning your decisions and choices.

... .

For me to post... .and pretend like I am helping you by telling you the words to engage in the last conflict... .

Is enabling

Is engaging in drama

Is triangulating

Is rescuing

My boundaries don't allow that.

I rather be an example of good boundaries and not instruct you on how to engage in the latest drama.  Maybe my actions will be heard by someone.

This is NOT fine at all.  I think you know that.


Thank you Sunflower, I needed this today.

L

[Skip]

Unicorn, I pop into your threads every few weeks and I can see a steady erosion in the way you treat your married bf/fiance' - you treat him with a great deal of contempt.

Downward Cycle

• He is not been forthcoming or honest regarding his marriage or getting a divorce



• You have huge and growing resentments which you deal with by treating him in an uncaring way (he tries t pacify you with secondary thing and that give you some satisfaction and relief to reject them)



• He has growing resentments and these will likely come your way in full force when you are at a vulnerable point.

The two of you deep into a relationship death cycle.  Experts like John Gottman would say that you are in "Stage Four", the final stages of relationship destruction/death.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/your-relationship-breaking-down

When I was commenting earlier, my point was that the trajectory of the relation is on a failure path.

Regardless of the circumstances, you (Unicorn) are investing time (month and month) in this relationship and you have dreams that your partner will get a divorce, move locally, and you will live happily ever after.

The problem I see  is that the two of you are treating each other in ways that will destroying the fabric of a "relationship".

Week by week, you compassion for this man wanes. If there is another suspected breach of trust, you will

His side: He has destroyed any trust that you had, but more importantly,  he is not doing the conventional things to rebuild it. Instead, he is winning the battle of wills on setting lack of transparency as a normal and is getting you to more and more accept it/live with it. Your relationship is on a "need to know" basis.  You will be able to buy into this for while, but ultimately you will come to realize that betrayal is a norm in the relationship. The next serious "suspected" breach of trust will have you second guessing everything. Every trust breach is like cancer unless resolved. It grows and grows under the surface.

Your side: You are resentful and have become emotionally unavailable, irritable, and controlling. You have pounded repeatedly on his self esteem, made him plead, and rejected him. You've dis'ed him to your family, your church friends, etc.  Putting him down and rejecting a man is like a cancer, too. He hates it. It grows and grows under the surface.

Your threads here are mostly about getting validation and advice on how to walk the line and not blow up the relationship, but still assault on his self esteem, punish him, make him him craw, and reject him.

He is firmly entrenched in providing you selective information and not yield. You have erected a punishment system to try and force him to be more transparent. Battle. Battle.

The conventional solution is to get a therapist engaged to help see it the two of you can get your values aligned. I suspect he doesn't want a third party to start digging into this because he won't be able to "BS" him like he has you. I'm not sure why you don't want to do it - I wonder if you know, deep down, the therapists is going to say that you rtwo are not good for each other, and you aren't ready to let go of the "dream".

It's cold war.

You need to get on a very different path for this relationship to survive. More of the same and "tweaking it" might feel like progress, but it completely ignores the severe damage smoldering below the surface.

[Daniell85]

I ran into the same bullheadedness and intentional lack of transparency in my relationship. Everything was a fight for simple, normal, basic standard of behavior. I stepped out of the relationship. I am not sure I am done DONE, but I don't know what to do except to not participate in a relationship where the other party is relentlessly trying to force me to accept poor treatment and give over control to them.

I see Unicorn in the same situation in a lot of ways. People have commented about her taking her relationship back to a different stage and go in the opposite direction.

I am curious, since her partner is so stubborn and lacking in transparency, what is there to actually do... what steps can actually be done when your partner flat out won't work with you?

[unicorn2014]

There's no way to undo his marriage proposal. Does what I'm saying make any sense?

NO

Quite bluntly... .

You are speaking like a victim. 

You are speaking like a person who is not in charge of her life but allows life to be in charge of you.

You are speaking like circumstances decide your fate... .vs you deciding on circumstances to be in.

You are speaking like a person who has no volition to make her own decisions.

To NOT decide... .

and allow HIM control

And allow his ex wife control

Etc

... .Are all choice YOU have made.

You cannot change a thing until you embrace the wonderment of being in charge of you and your decisions.

Please start using empowering language vs victim talk.

You are where you are... .

Because of your active choices today

You are the one who has power to change this.

It starts with owning your decisions and choices.

... .

For me to post... .and pretend like I am helping you by telling you the words to engage in the last conflict... .

Is enabling

Is engaging in drama

Is triangulating

Is rescuing

My boundaries don't allow that.

I rather be an example of good boundaries and not instruct you on how to engage in the latest drama.  Maybe my actions will be heard by someone.

This is NOT fine at all.  I think you know that.

Hi, I think you really misunderstood me here. I'm not saying I'm powerless to say no. I'm saying the relationship started off at the level of engagement and there's no way to undo that. If he hadn't proposed to me I wouldn't care if he was married or not because it wouldn't affect me. The only thing him being married prevents is him marrying me.

[unicorn2014]

Unicorn, I pop into your threads every few weeks and I can see a steady erosion in the way you treat your married bf/fiance' - you treat him with a great deal of contempt.

Downward Cycle

• He is not been forthcoming or honest regarding his marriage or getting a divorce



• You have huge and growing resentments which you deal with by treating him in an uncaring way (he tries t pacify you with secondary thing and that give you some satisfaction and relief to reject them)



• He has growing resentments and these will likely come your way in full force when you are at a vulnerable point.

The two of you deep into a relationship death cycle.  Experts like John Gottman would say that you are in "Stage Four", the final stages of relationship destruction/death.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/your-relationship-breaking-down

When I was commenting earlier, my point was that the trajectory of the relation is on a failure path.

Regardless of the circumstances, you (Unicorn) are investing time (month and month) in this relationship and you have dreams that your partner will get a divorce, move locally, and you will live happily ever after.

The problem I see  is that the two of you are treating each other in ways that will destroying the fabric of a "relationship".

Week by week, you compassion for this man wanes. If there is another suspected breach of trust, you will

His side: He has destroyed any trust that you had, but more importantly,  he is not doing the conventional things to rebuild it. Instead, he is winning the battle of wills on setting lack of transparency as a normal and is getting you to more and more accept it/live with it. Your relationship is on a "need to know" basis.  You will be able to buy into this for while, but ultimately you will come to realize that betrayal is a norm in the relationship. The next serious "suspected" breach of trust will have you second guessing everything. Every trust breach is like cancer unless resolved. It grows and grows under the surface.

Your side: You are resentful and have become emotionally unavailable, irritable, and controlling. You have pounded repeatedly on his self esteem, made him plead, and rejected him. You've dis'ed him to your family, your church friends, etc.  Putting him down and rejecting a man is like a cancer, too. He hates it. It grows and grows under the surface.

Your threads here are mostly about getting validation and advice on how to walk the line and not blow up the relationship, but still assault on his self esteem, punish him, make him him craw, and reject him.

He is firmly entrenched in providing you selective information and not yield. You have erected a punishment system to try and force him to be more transparent. Battle. Battle.

The conventional solution is to get a therapist engaged to help see it the two of you can get your values aligned. I suspect he doesn't want a third party to start digging into this because he won't be able to "BS" him like he has you. I'm not sure why you don't want to do it - I wonder if you know, deep down, the therapists is going to say that you rtwo are not good for each other, and you aren't ready to let go of the "dream".

It's cold war.

You need to get on a very different path for this relationship to survive. More of the same and "tweaking it" might feel like progress, but it completely ignores the severe damage smoldering below the surface.

We had a therapist working with us for a couple of years, and that therapist thought he was good for me. That therapist thought he was in a dead marriage and had an opportunity to be with the woman he was in love with.

The last few days have provided a couple of opportunities for me to get into it with my SO and I let it go so despite how I appear on the board, I am getting better. Today's example was when he told me he talked to his mother, his mother told him she was happy for him that he met me, said she was tired of his wife. This kind of irritated me and I said to him "so what happened to that good news you said you might have for me this week?" And he said it wasn't the end of the week yet. He texted me after the phone call and asked if he said something wrong but I didn't respond to that, I let it go. Two such things have happened in the past few days where I had an opportunity to pick a fight with him and I didn't, I let it go. I don't know about you, but to me that means I'm getting better.

I'm really trying hard _not_ to ask him about his divorce and I think that does count for something, at least to me. I'm really trying hard not to triangulate. Perhaps I should talk more about the positive things I'm doing and less about the problems.

[unicorn2014]

I ran into the same bullheadedness and intentional lack of transparency in my relationship. Everything was a fight for simple, normal, basic standard of behavior. I stepped out of the relationship. I am not sure I am done DONE, but I don't know what to do except to not participate in a relationship where the other party is relentlessly trying to force me to accept poor treatment and give over control to them.

I see Unicorn in the same situation in a lot of ways. People have commented about her taking her relationship back to a different stage and go in the opposite direction.

I am curious, since her partner is so stubborn and lacking in transparency, what is there to actually do... what steps can actually be done when your partner flat out won't work with you?

Daniell85 I've also decided to stop asking my partner about his divorce. THat's really helping and Allowing me to focus on the things I do enjoy about him like the kind of work he does, or the way he helps my daughter with her homework. I've found that if we don't talk about the issue of his divorce we're fine. I miss my ring but I won't put it back on until I get a case number. He has _really_ good advice when it comes to my daughter, its on par with that of my sober male friends or even my daughter's psychologist or guidance counselor.

Like I've been saying, if he hadn't proposed to me, I wouldn't care if he was married because it wouldn't have mattered. God only knows how many men I went out with in the past who might have been separated but not divorced. See what I'm saying? Being married isn't a problem until you want to marry someone else.

[unicorn2014]

[  However that's not what this topic was about

Unicorn,

Can you start a topic about dealing with your resentment?

I would also recommend starting a topic about "Is my relationship "fine"?"

If you are avoiding those topics because they are not the point of a thread, then let's have a separate thread for those.  The threads/topics that you are posting and solving might seem like progress, because it likely appears to you that you are solving things and moving forward.

In my opinion your relationship is continuing to deteriorate.  Just the other day you were talking about detaching.   

Your relationship is not fine.

FF

FF i am thinking about it and in thinking about I know my part, at least in the beginning of the relationship, and how I ended up in this kind of relationship in the first place. However after the fact he was married rose to the surface that changed everything and then the bad behavior became his problem, not mine. Nevertheless I am thinking about your suggestion to post about resentment  and will post it when I can. Thank you for your feedback.

[unicorn2014]

  There's no way to undo his marriage proposal. 

Yes there is... .

Say no.

FF

I think many people are misunderstanding me here. I'm not saying I'm obligated to him. What I'm saying is that by him starting our relationship off at the level of engagement he made his marriage my business. Had he simply asked me out, which would have been hard to do long distance, it wouldn't have mattered if he had been married.

Somebody once put it succinctly on this board that the only thing him being married prevents is him marrying me.

I'm learning how not to pick up the gauntlet and I've avoided two arguments with him so far in two days. I'd say I'm making progress.

[unicorn2014]

Whatever this man has done, he is a human being. From what I can see, he gave you a compute, helped you fix it, and said that he is glad to see you. This isn't a crime. Yet on your side of the fence, you are irritated because it disrupted your schedule. This is a problem for you, but it isn't something he said, or did. This is how you saw it, and it is something to consider for you.

Hi Not Wendy, I don't know if I replied to this or not so if this is a repeat, I apologize. I was able to assert myself to him and tell him I need to say good night by 8pm and we resolved that problem. In fact he made a point to observe the clock the night after that.

The fate of the divorce is not in your hands, but the interactions on your part and the boundary of whether or not to be in a relationship with a man who is still legally married to someone else is in yours. So is how you perceive him and interact with him.

And you too are human, with feelings, and this situation is hurtful and stressful for you. But it is what it is, and to honor your feelings might mean to consider if a relationship with someone who is married is something you wish to continue.

Thank you Not Wendy. I think for me I want to not ask him about his divorce, which is what members had advised months ago. That for me will give me some peace of mind. I did experience a challenging phone call with him today which I managed to ride out without getting in trouble, so perhaps I am getting better.

[Lou12]

For me to post... .and pretend like I am helping you by telling you the words to engage in the last conflict... .

Is enabling

Is engaging in drama

Is triangulating

Is rescuing

My boundaries don't allow that.

I rather be an example of good boundaries and not instruct you on how to engage in the latest drama.  Maybe my actions will be heard by someone.

Amen Sunflower! This is exactly what I have expressed in past posts to Unicorn. By answering questions on the most recent conflict is helping Unicorn to avoid the core problems of the relationship which effectively isn't helping Unicorn at all.

[unicorn2014]

Sunflower has a post about enabling on the PI if you want to discuss that  there. Please keep this discussion focused on my topic which was about asserting one's needs for sleep  when in a relationship with a person with Bpd traits.

[Sunfl0wer]

Hi, I think you really misunderstood me here. I'm not saying I'm powerless to say no. I'm saying the relationship started off at the level of engagement and there's no way to undo that. If he hadn't proposed to me I wouldn't care if he was married or not because it wouldn't affect me. The only thing him being married prevents is him marrying me.

Quite frankly... .

Yes, you are correct... . I do not feel able to understand you.

I would like to be able to support and give constructive feedback.

However, my experience is that it is so hard for me to understand you.

My observations are... .

... .one post you are committed

... .another post you are using detaching tools

... .another you are asking how to engage in conflict

... .another you express desire to step back from conflict

... .you have a problem

... .all is fine

And so on.

These ideas do not seem to change throughout the month.  They change and swing like a pendulum throughout a single thread.

I have no way to help you when I cannot identify where you are at.

I suspect there are others that feel similar, that want to be helpful, but to do so is a struggle for us.

Personally... .

I find much of the dialogue and quotes of his texts very distracting to the issues rather than illustrative of them.

I rather hear you take a stance on something and support you in that stance.

[Sunfl0wer]

 

Please keep this discussion focused on my topic which was about asserting one's needs for sleep  when in a relationship with a person with Bpd traits.

Fair enough

Can you share alternative actions you could have taken?

[unicorn2014]

Since I am not currently able to commit to the relationship until my SO provides me with a case number for his divorce it may be  best if I refrain from posting about it further on the conflicted board. If I can get to a point of radical acceptance I will move over to the staying board. That way people won't feel like they are wasting their energy  by enabling me or advising me on how to engage in conflict. Thank you for your time.

[Sunfl0wer]

Since I am not currently able to commit to the relationship until my SO provides me with a case number for his divorce it may be  best if I refrain from posting about it further on the conflicted board. If I can get to a point of radical acceptance I will move over to the staying board. That way people won't feel like they are wasting their energy  by enabling me or advising me on how to engage in conflict. Thank you for your time.

This is your choice to make, you own it.  

I will not attempt to persuade you differently.

However, at the risk pf JADEing, I will sincerely restate... .

Can you share alternative actions that you could have taken?

... .

We are all here to learn from the collective wisdom of one another.  Just as you are here learning about communication with SO, I am also here to learn communication skills.  

[Notwendy]

The boundary in a relationship is not only at the commitment, or the bedroom door.

Morality aside, someone who is married legally can not legally marry someone else. The marriage needs to be dissolved first. I think that is clear.

If one has a boundary to not be emotionally involved with a married man, then that boundary includes the nature of the interactions.

We are in relationships with everyone we are in contact with. It is our boundaries and theirs that determine the nature of that relationship.

For instance, if I am speaking to a married man who I know, and I don't wish to cross a boundary, then there are boundaries to that interaction. It is appropriate to say something like " or "congratulations on your child's graduation". ( this is likely to not be personal- probably announced in the paper) or the new grandbaby or something like that. It would be inappropriate for me to say something derogatory about my relationship with someone else, or to step over the line of drama, triangulation, deeply personal information. All this can go on in a hallway, online, and with no physical contact- no commitment. One can have a dramatic emotional relationship in many contexts.

ie, the boundaries of the relationship and the content and context of the exchange between two people are determinants of a relationship.

I make this point because, even though your SO proposed to you when married, and there have been some boundaries in the relationship, it remains emotionally charged. Yes, he was wrong to do this, but by remaining in the emotional atmosphere of the relationship, this is in a way, complying in the situation. The choice to be in such a relationship and the boundaries are determined by both people, but the only choice someone can control is their own. The point is that, while he was wrong to propose, the choice to continue this LDR in this manner was yours too, and so he is not entirely to blame for the current relationship.

There is probably nothing you can do to change the fact that this man is still married with an unknown divorce date, but your side of this is up to you. As of now, if the choice is to stay, than radical acceptance would include accepting this uncertain situation and the responsibility for the choice to stay in it.

[unicorn2014]

Since I am not currently able to commit to the relationship until my SO provides me with a case number for his divorce it may be  best if I refrain from posting about it further on the conflicted board. If I can get to a point of radical acceptance I will move over to the staying board. That way people won't feel like they are wasting their energy  by enabling me or advising me on how to engage in conflict. Thank you for your time.

This is your choice to make, you own it. 

I will not attempt to persuade you differently.

However, at the risk pf JADEing, I will sincerely restate... .

Can you share alternative actions that you could have taken?

... .

We are all here to learn from the collective wisdom of one another.  Just as you are here learning about communication with SO, I am also here to learn communication skills. 

I learned from this thread that it is my job to tell my SO when I need to go to sleep. PwBPD have abandonment issues around bedtime so this is an area where self care is really important, especially since sleep is an issue for me.

[unicorn2014]

The boundary in a relationship is not only at the commitment, or the bedroom door.

Morality aside, someone who is married legally can not legally marry someone else. The marriage needs to be dissolved first. I think that is clear.

If one has a boundary to not be emotionally involved with a married man, then that boundary includes the nature of the interactions.

We are in relationships with everyone we are in contact with. It is our boundaries and theirs that determine the nature of that relationship.

For instance, if I am speaking to a married man who I know, and I don't wish to cross a boundary, then there are boundaries to that interaction. It is appropriate to say something like " or "congratulations on your child's graduation". ( this is likely to not be personal- probably announced in the paper) or the new grandbaby or something like that. It would be inappropriate for me to say something derogatory about my relationship with someone else, or to step over the line of drama, triangulation, deeply personal information. All this can go on in a hallway, online, and with no physical contact- no commitment. One can have a dramatic emotional relationship in many contexts.

ie, the boundaries of the relationship and the content and context of the exchange between two people are determinants of a relationship.

I make this point because, even though your SO proposed to you when married, and there have been some boundaries in the relationship, it remains emotionally charged. Yes, he was wrong to do this, but by remaining in the emotional atmosphere of the relationship, this is in a way, complying in the situation. The choice to be in such a relationship and the boundaries are determined by both people, but the only choice someone can control is their own. The point is that, while he was wrong to propose, the choice to continue this LDR in this manner was yours too, and so he is not entirely to blame for the current relationship.

There is probably nothing you can do to change the fact that this man is still married with an unknown divorce date, but your side of this is up to you. As of now, if the choice is to stay, than radical acceptance would include accepting this uncertain situation and the responsibility for the choice to stay in it.

Yes right now I am choosing to stay in a relationship with a separated man. I think it's important to make that distinction as they have been physically separated since July 2012.

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I am working on a post about my resentments and I'm also thinking about another one "is my relationship healthy?"

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I know it is not recommended to hang out on the deciding board for too long. I wonder if that has changed since it has also expanded to conflicted?

I did have an awkward conversation with my SO yesterday which he is still processing today which I kind of want to post about but I also don't want people to think they are enabling me by responding.

[Sunfl0wer]

Great, it sounds like you are saying that you know what to do:

it is my job to tell my SO when I need to go to sleep.

How about working on a plan now... .

When you imagine yourself telling your SO that you need sleep, what thoughts and feelings come up for you?