View from a borderline. It's scary...

[Frustratedbloke]

I just found this, written by a self-confessed Borderline.


www.megsanity.com/article.asp?post=176

Read the bit about the people that just won't leave them alone, the ones that deserve the punishment. That's us, the people that tried to give them a chance and see the good in them even when they were being awful... .

[Mutt]

Hi Frustratedbloke,

That's the perspective of one person. BPD is a spectrum disorder and different people have different personalities,  traits and severity of the disorder. I would like to share another perspective from a pwBPD.

My Definition of Love. I have Borderline Personality Disorder.

[WoundedBibi]

Besides it being just one way BPD is for one person, I really see it as an affirmation of what I suspect BPD is like for a pwBPD. So I don't find it scary. I find she is able to look at herself, even when she doesn't like her own behaviour. I find it to be applauded she has found a way to live her life without it being consumed by this disorder. And that she has found a way to stay with her husband for so long, to work through it together. And for him to be able to withstand the storms without losing himself or his ability to love her.

I wish all pwBPD could be so self reflective. I wish they could all find a SO as strong as him. I know I'm not.

Other than that, this site does have rules about not posting links to personal blogs and stuff...

[C.Stein]

This is but one account of a person who suffers from BPD.  This in no way should be construed as a catch-all definition of BPD behavior.  I also don't feel it is right to cherry pick parts of single persons experience and make it a generalized property of all borderlines.  

That said, it is refreshing to see someone who is capable of such honesty, self-reflection and change when faced with a PD.  This is something we all struggle with at times (honesty, self-reflection and change) but it is orders of magnitude more difficult for a borderline.  So for those who are able to grow and be more than the disorder I tip my hat to you.

[Frustratedbloke]

Fair enough, mine was much more of the undiagnosed, first four paras variety it has to be said

[FannyB]

Wow - amazing that someone with BPD could manage their demons sufficiently well to realise their SO truly loves her.  Would have been great to have heard how the relationship works from the husband's perspective, but for those still hoping for a future with their BPDex - you've actually given them hope!

Fanny

[Ab123]

Wow. Her description of the rage is actually really beautiful, and what I imagine my exbf feels. I came on here today fighting the urge to contact him... .  I'm somewhere he was supposed to be with me, and thinking of him often. I'm very thankful for all the advice not to tell pwBPD your suspected diagnosis, or I might have sent a link to the article. He likely would t respond well, and it would do no good. And I'd wreck things with my new boyfriend by opening contact and traveling down a dark path. 

But, how I wish it were as simple as my ex having an "aha" moment, and it is so tempting to think he could see himself in the article. 

But, that would only work if he were self aware and searching himself. And, he isn't.

[wanttoknowmore]

What about those pwBPD who do not rage outwardly... .my Ex hardly ever raged, yelled or cursed.  During dysregulation, she used to go in silent withdrawal... .total lack of communication for 24 to 48 hours... .after that she used to come back and pretend that nothing bad happened and life becomes normal again for a month or so.

Also, her texts ,phone calls only expressed complaints, denials that I did not say that or do that, and if confronted with facts... .either silence or in simple non angry voice saying " the problem was actually caused by you" I did not create problem. She would say "you are stressed thats why you acted crazy last night"   Interesting !  It was she who was "acting crazy" but blaming me for what happened. 

This all without her raising her voice, cursing, yelling or acting ragefully. Moreover, she still addressed my name  in respectful manner even while in dys-regulated state.

So, QUITE/ACTING IN types manifest their disorder in different manner.

pw BPDs comes in different flavors, sizes and shapes, colors , styles and degree of intensity.

[Frustratedbloke]

Mine was exactly the same, it wasn't outward rage, it was a death stare, followed by silent treatment. She'd use a different name for me when she was angry, not the pet name, and I might not hear from her for six days at a time. She wouldn't discuss past disagreements when she came back and yeah it was like nothing had happened, which really used to put me off balance. I'm a communicator, she wasn't. We just weren't a good fit!

I wasn't saying mine was like this with outward rage, but the thinking there is scary, the ones that stick around are asking for a mauling... .

[Lonely_Astro]

My ex wasn't an outward rage type (not toward me, of course) but I did see her rage about her mom, someone who cut her off in traffic, or her boss.  But she never raged at me, for whatever reason.  She would admit that she was an inward rage type.  When I began to be subjected to arguments and then ST, I knew our r/s was on the way out... .even though I wanted to deny it. 

This article was interesting to me.  It gave me an inside view of ONE person's fight with BPD.  By no means do I think it's a catch all for a spectrum disorder.  It does, however, give me a hint on insight into what my ex may have been experiencing.  Though this author seems much more in tune and self aware than my ex.  J was self aware, don't get me wrong, but that didnt prevent her from doing a lot of nasty things to me (and others). 

As another user said, it just seemed like we weren't "a good fit".  Her new BF is PERFECT for her though... . 

[Frustratedbloke]

The new one is always perfect. Until they aren't

[FannyB]

My ex 'acted in' - so I know where you're coming from. I honestly don't believe that my ex attributes her multiple relationship breakdowns to her actions/reactions. When we started going off the rails she actually said 'Oh, no - not again' as if she was some princess in a fairy tale forever cursed to be denied everlasting love. 

As the woman in the article states, their feelings change quickly and they know not why. Most will just assume the partner is bad, so the cycle perpetuates with the new Mr/Miss Right. Great to see that with self-awareness and an iron will some can actually change things and make a relationship work. Pity that they are the exception rather than the rule.


Fanny

[stimpy]

My ex upwBPD would always 'acted in' as well. Maybe this is more common than is suspected. My cycle of abuse was simple. She would say or do something that would upset me, I would call her out on it, an argument would ensue, and then I'd be blamed for the argument. Then I'd get the silent treatment... .

I'm soo glad to be out of all that.

Fanny, you comment about "Oh no -not again" made me smile. I had a very similar experience with my ex. What is so amazing to me is that pretty much all of her relationships ended really badly, and yet the common denominator - her, was something she never ever recognised... .It was ALWAYS someone elses fault. She was never ever to blame for anything.

I found the Megsanity link interesting, the author seems to have a level of self awareness that is rare by all accounts. And her attempts to recognise when a rage was coming was great to see and some of the coping mechanisms were interesting as well.

Stimpy

[Fr4nz]

As another user said, it just seemed like we weren't "a good fit".  Her new BF is PERFECT for her though... . 

Yeah... .he will be the 100000-th love of her life

[MapleBob]

My ex upwBPD would always 'acted in' as well. Maybe this is more common than is suspected. My cycle of abuse was simple. She would say or do something that would upset me, I would call her out on it, an argument would ensue, and then I'd be blamed for the argument. Then I'd get the silent treatment... .

Oh yes, that sounds very familiar! Except I didn't get the silent treatment after all of the other parts - it was usually more of her getting angry, bringing up things from the past, and doing anything to avoid accountability. (Or, alternately: playing the victim.)

[GreenEyedMonster]

It's interesting how the BPD sufferer is basically strapped into the rollercoaster, too.  She can see these things happening, but also feels powerless to stop them, as if the things are happening to her instead of her doing them.  I think that's important to remember as we empathize with our BPD partners.

I also noticed how her husband practiced radical acceptance, realizing that the accusations and anger that she hurled at him were her pain, not a reflection of who he was as a person.  He seems to realistically see that he will never have a "normal" relationship with her where these accusations will go away.  Someone with a fragile ego could never pull off something like this.

[wanttoknowmore]

My ex 'acted in' - so I know where you're coming from. I honestly don't believe that my ex attributes her multiple relationship breakdowns to her actions/reactions. When we started going off the rails she actually said 'Oh, no - not again' as if she was some princess in a fairy tale forever cursed to be denied everlasting love. 


That's exactly what my ex used to say as soon as some disagreement started... .She would "lets not talk about that"  ":)on't go there again" "that's in the past... lets move on"

So, she would not allow processing of conflictual dialogue  and  mostly will distract or digress from it. If I insisted too much... .she will go in silence or stop talking.

[Lonely_Astro]

He seems to realistically see that he will never have a "normal" relationship with her where these accusations will go away.  Someone with a fragile ego could never pull off something like this.

Fragile ego or not, at what point does one stop and say that enough abuse is enough, though?  I say that because I didn't (and don't) consider myself to have a fragile ego.  I tried to make it work with my ex, way more than I really should've.  I knew full well that I wouldn't have an easy or normal r/s with her.  I tried my best, through that knowledge, to have the best r/s with her that she would allow.  And yes, I say allow because even though I would TRY to do the 'correct' thing, it never turned out to be 'right' in her eyes.  But that's BPD, isn't it?

The problem seems to lie when they have a partner that holds them accountable.  They can't have that.  While I understand they don't have the ability to think about long term consequences to their actions and they are impulsive, that doesn't give them an excuse.  Dismissing their behavior isn't right just like snapping on them for every little thing isn't either.

I understand that's not what you meant by your post.  I just wanted to respond to the part about the fragile ego.  You don't have to have a fragile ego to lose a pwBPD.  Everything is on their terms. Plain and simple.  Nothing is about you, at all.  You could literally be anyone (trust me, I've discovered this first hand of late).  Your ego plays zero role in this, it's all about them. 

[Frustratedbloke]

Yep I have to agree, it's all well and good congratulating someone on consenting to a lifetime of pain, but as I get more and more distance I cannot see how it would ever be worth it.

[strong9]

Yep I have to agree, it's all well and good congratulating someone on consenting to a lifetime of pain, but as I get more and more distance I cannot see how it would ever be worth it.

Put me in this camp as well. In fact, I don't want to congratulate him as much as I want to offer condolences for his lifetime of chaos. Now that I have peace, I know I could never take on such a burden for anyone other than my own children.

[rfriesen]

To my mind, it really depends how sincere this BPD sufferer is in trying to control her behaviour. If she can show her husband that they really are partners in dealing with the disease and that she respects him and is doing her best, then I can see trying to make it work. For me, the real question would be honesty. I could see myself being ready to deal with occasional rage, but not lies and manipulation. Because then there's simply no partnership, no sense that you're in something together. A partner who has outbursts of anger, but who is aware of that and can take responsibility afterwards ... .that I could conceivably deal with. But lies, deceit, and manipulation ... would be a complete deal-breaker for me.

[letmeout]

During dysregulation, mine would sometimes use the silent treatment, up to a week or more at times. But mostly he would just rage out of control like he was possessed by a demon, and then turn around and act like nothing happened.

Living with someone who has, what I like to call rabid BPD is no way to live. Your body never seems to have time to recover, and it causes a host of ills eventually.

[MapleBob]

For me, the real question would be honesty. I could see myself being ready to deal with occasional rage, but not lies and manipulation. Because then there's simply no partnership, no sense that you're in something together. A partner who has outbursts of anger, but who is aware of that and can take responsibility afterwards ... .that I could conceivably deal with. But lies, deceit, and manipulation ... would be a complete deal-breaker for me.

Yes! I've been thinking a lot lately that my uBPDex was actually a pretty spectacular girlfriend: she's sweet and gorgeous and intelligent and attractive and fun and interesting and has a lot of, really, very admirable qualities. But in terms of having the skills to be a partner (like forgiveness, accountability, paying anything forward, sacrifice, compromise, direct and considered honesty, anything even approaching stability... .), she's just not up to the task. And I feel for her about that, truly. She has a lot of growing to do before she can get what she wants - and when she does, she'll be looking for a guy just like me. Maybe she'll be lucky and I'll be single and convince-able!  

[FannyB]

I think one of the worse things about being with a borderline is that you can't put anything in the 'good will' bank that will allow any future blips to be successfully managed. My ex did something to me once which if it had been the other way around would certainly have ended the relationship. She apologised profusely and I let it go with a laugh saying 'Remember this when I fck up'. Needless to say that when she next blew up over some triviality, the fact that she had done far worse recently and been forgiven was conveniently dismissed with 'well I said sorry for that'.  You just can't win and have to be an extremely special person to go the distance with a borderline - whether they are in therapy or not.


Fanny

[MapleBob]

I think one of the worse things about being with a borderline is that you can't put anything in the 'good will' bank that will allow any future blips to be successfully managed. My ex did something to me once which if it had been the other way around would certainly have ended the relationship.

Right? Mine actually came right out and said "if you had said/done the things I've said/done, I wouldn't be able to forgive you." 

[Ab123]

I think this article was part of what drove me to break NC yesterday, with some momentary irrational hope that he would be a bit self aware if I asked questions about his behaviors and willingness to change. I immediately regretted hitting send, sent him a text asking him not to answer, and we just had a short very pleasant exchange, which I posted about elsewhere. 

But, we need to remember that letting them hurt us doesn't really help them. Mine is an emotional vampire. He can't help it and I can't help him.

I think that is what the author is talking about when she said the stupid ones stay. In my text exchange yesterday, besides making it clear that he misses me and regrets that we are apart (making it very clear that I could have him back if I wanted), my ex also made it clear that he very much respects my walking away and my need for space. He made it clear that there is a beautiful "one that got away" pedestal that he is happy to keep me on. (And he all but said that I earn that by being smart and staying away.).

[GreenEyedMonster]

For me, the real question would be honesty. I could see myself being ready to deal with occasional rage, but not lies and manipulation. Because then there's simply no partnership, no sense that you're in something together. A partner who has outbursts of anger, but who is aware of that and can take responsibility afterwards ... .that I could conceivably deal with. But lies, deceit, and manipulation ... would be a complete deal-breaker for me.

Yes! I've been thinking a lot lately that my uBPDex was actually a pretty spectacular girlfriend: she's sweet and gorgeous and intelligent and attractive and fun and interesting and has a lot of, really, very admirable qualities. But in terms of having the skills to be a partner (like forgiveness, accountability, paying anything forward, sacrifice, compromise, direct and considered honesty, anything even approaching stability... .), she's just not up to the task. And I feel for her about that, truly. She has a lot of growing to do before she can get what she wants - and when she does, she'll be looking for a guy just like me. Maybe she'll be lucky and I'll be single and convince-able!  

I would agree with all of these things.  They ring very true to my experience.  My ex was in many ways a fun companion and a fun boyfriend, but he was not in any sense my partner.

As for having a "fragile ego," what I meant was that you couldn't have a relationship between a pwBPD and someone who takes their behavior personally.  If you need your partner to make YOU feel like a good partner, you aren't going to get that.  Clearly this woman's husband has a rock-solid sense of self and can withstand her attacks.  That is not something everyone has.  I am not faulting anyone for not having that; it's rare.  Radical acceptance -- the choice to see the person beyond the disease and understand that they can't fix that -- is also a deeply personal choice.

I take issue, though, with "holding partners accountable."  While there is some degree of this that happens in every relationship, I think that if this becomes a large part of your role, you're forcing a relationship to work where you're simply incompatible.  Entering a relationship becomes, then, like training a dog or raising a child.  The idea is not to train your partner to be good to you, but to find someone who wants to be good to you.  If you need to train your partner not to abuse you, it's a bad relationship, period.  If a grown man in his 40s cannot figure out how to be kind to me on a basic level and consider my needs as well as his, then he is not ready to be in a relationship, and my *accountability* will not magically turn him into a person who is.  If I can't say no to someone when I need to, or I can't ask for something I need, then it's not a healthy relationship.  To think that I can set rules and boundaries and change someone's fundamental selfishness is an exercise in denial, and a waste of my time.  I want a boyfriend, not a son.  The way I hold my partner accountable is by terminating the relationship.

I think that a misunderstanding of Cluster B disorders in general is that if we just set boundaries and make the individual aware of their shortcomings, they will love us enough to want to fix them.  That isn't how it works, and many people here can attest to that.  That is how we would react in the same situation, so we assume that is how they will react. 

I've read quite a bit about relationships with people on the autism spectrum as well, because I had a short experience with that.  It is interesting to see how many of those relationships are purely a product of projection -- the neurotypical person sort of pencils in the feelings that the autistic person should have, and imagines them, and that fulfills their needs.  I see a lot of the same thing with pwBPD, where we imagine that the pwBPD must feel a certain way toward us, and thus would care about being "held accountable."  We imagine the feelings they have toward us in the idealization stage as being very similar to ours -- rational, though-out, reasonable.  I think we are missing some of the pieces here when we think in those terms.

[C.Stein]

Yes! I've been thinking a lot lately that my uBPDex was actually a pretty spectacular girlfriend: she's sweet and gorgeous and intelligent and attractive and fun and interesting and has a lot of, really, very admirable qualities. But in terms of having the skills to be a partner (like forgiveness, accountability, paying anything forward, sacrifice, compromise, direct and considered honesty, anything even approaching stability... .), she's just not up to the task.

Mine ex was the same, though I don't know if I would go so far as spectacular.  Outside an intimate relationship she is generally an amazing person.  Even inside an intimate relationship she can be amazing at times.  This is what kept me going, kept me hoping she could find a way to be more than the sum of her past actions.  As it turned out it was a fools hope.

The critical things required to achieve a truly intimate relationship and bond she couldn't handle.  She was also an in-acting "rager" for the most part, but I don't think I ever saw her really "rage".  She would get upset, frustrated, annoyed, pissed off but I don't think I ever saw her rage, however there may have been a few texting "rages", hard to really judge when you're not there in person.

I also hope she can find a way to grow past this as I feel she is very close to being a good (if not great) partner, but I don't think she will ever really get there.  

[MapleBob]

The way I hold my partner accountable is by terminating the relationship.

You're talking about relationships with pwBPD specifically, right? Because that seems like a pretty destructive and unforgiving policy otherwise!

(Keep in mind: I do agree that pwBPD - and, honestly, A LOT of nons too - are not capable of true accountability.)

[GreenEyedMonster]

The way I hold my partner accountable is by terminating the relationship.

You're talking about relationships with pwBPD specifically, right? Because that seems like a pretty destructive and unforgiving policy otherwise!

(Keep in mind: I do agree that pwBPD - and, honestly, A LOT of nons too - are not capable of true accountability.)

Yes, I'm talking specifically about my BPD partner.  But as I said, in my opinion, if "accountability" looks like anything more than a healthy conversation about why something bothers me, and that conversation doesn't lead to change, apologies, forgiveness, and better understanding, I begin to think that my partner is in the situation for something other than a real relationship.  My BPD partner was completely unmoved, very early in our relationship, when I told him that it bothered me that he didn't attend one of my performances.  He responded with defensiveness and accusations against me.  I could try for more "accountability" by getting angry at him, but at that point, I've already figured out that this is a one-person show.  "That bothered me," or "That hurt my feelings," should be enough to generate some positive change in a good relationship.

Prior to that relationship, I was with the same partner for more than a decade, so clearly I'm not that merciless.  But with the previous partner, if something he did bothered me, it led to a discussion, not a fight.