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Author Topic: Why Can the BPD Never Own Their Mistakes?  (Read 4212 times)
JerryRG
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« Reply #30 on: June 30, 2016, 08:21:32 PM »

The short answer for my exgf is immaturity, in emotional development, decision making skills, long term goals, short term goals, honesty, reality, finances, you name it. She just lives in her own dream world where everything is everyone else's fault. Eternal victim and giving her power away, always expecting someone else to do the right thing. But blaming those who try to point out the fatal flaws in her thinking.

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seenr
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« Reply #31 on: July 01, 2016, 09:07:47 AM »

I have seen my ex own a mistake in the immediate aftermath of it but then make the mistake somebody else's. As an example she has got very drunk, then the morning after felt guilty for ten minutes then claim her drink was spiked.
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Meili
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« Reply #32 on: July 01, 2016, 09:22:04 AM »

My x has owned some of her mistakes. She expects me to just move past them because she apologized though.

She told me this one day as she was 'yelling' at me for something that I did and apologized for.
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bAlex
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« Reply #33 on: July 01, 2016, 11:59:56 AM »

They might be ashamed of the things they've done or who they are.

If they feel like they're being accused or pushed into a corner the normal response is to stand up for themselves, because accepting the blame is just too painful.

To them it would serve as confirmation to you both what they already believe about themselves - that he/she is "a bad person". So, for that reason they can't agree with you even if they know you are right.

As emotionally tough as my ex was, or thought she was, she was extremely sensitive to criticism. So in eccence, I think it's nothing more than a defence mechanism.
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Meili
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« Reply #34 on: July 01, 2016, 12:20:25 PM »

I agree with what bAlex said. I think that shame has a huge. My x had talked about wanting to reconcile (which is what I want/wanted). We were communicating. Then she told me that she's been doing some research and thinks I suffer from BPD. When I pointed out that she was projecting that was that. Communication has been very limited since.

I should have known better than to say it though. Some of our biggest fights were because I didn't validate her feelings and/or pointed out some flaw.
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Lucky Jim
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« Reply #35 on: July 01, 2016, 12:54:38 PM »

Excerpt
I should have known better than to say it though. Some of our biggest fights were because I didn't validate her feelings and/or pointed out some flaw.

Hey Meili, Don't beat yourself up!  Who knew?  BPD is an extremely complex disorder.  Even if you did all those things perfectly, it's doubtful that the outcome would have been different.  Why?  Because most BPD relationships are not built to last, in my view.  Just the way it is.  The stress is enormous over the long haul and even the strongest Nons lose their footing after a while.  The burden grows until it ultimately becomes unmanageable, like the straw that broke the camel's back.  Those that hang in there in a BPD r/s generally do so at an enormous sacrifice.  You probably don't want to hear this, but I predict that a day will come when you will be grateful to have moved on.

I'm jaded, of course, so feel free to take this post with a grain of salt!

LuckyJim
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    A life spent making mistakes is not only more honorable, but more useful than a life spent doing nothing.
George Bernard Shaw
Meili
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« Reply #36 on: July 01, 2016, 01:08:02 PM »

Nah, I'm not beating myself up, but thank you for checking in with me on it. I do have a history of that and all.

I make mistakes. I'm human. I gave up trying to own other people's responses to things. Giving up that responsibility has been quite liberating!

I should have just been more considerate is what I meant. I should have known that it would be a painful/shameful thing for her to hear, and it really wasn't my place to say.

Besides, who knows, maybe she'll tell her counselor about it and they can explore it? Either way, it's totally out of my hands now. She knows how to contact me if she wants.
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Wize
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« Reply #37 on: July 01, 2016, 01:19:01 PM »

Validating a pwBPD's feelings is a full time job.  Doesn't leave a lot of time for the good stuff.  And the "good stuff" in a BPD relationship is the moments when they aren't disregulating.  We're not SO's, we're full time nurses and therapist.  No thanks.
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Meili
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« Reply #38 on: July 01, 2016, 01:29:27 PM »

Not all pwBPD are the same Wize, just like not all non's are the same. It isn't fair to lump them all together like that. Sure, they share the same traits, but they all function on a spectrum of different degrees.

Plus, there is the fact that if they feel validated and safe some of the time it is much easier to bring them back to that point. They need consistency, not constant validation. There is a difference between the two.

It should also be mentioned that everyone should be treated with compassion, validation, respect, and consideration.
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bAlex
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« Reply #39 on: July 01, 2016, 01:44:33 PM »

I should have known better than to say it though. Some of our biggest fights were because I didn't validate her feelings and/or pointed out some flaw.

Yes and I think it is for this reason that my relationship failed too, or at least what caused things to go south initially.

Having this knowledge, it makes one wonder if any of her actions were deliberately intended to be hurtful at all? I'm seeing another side of her, and it's one the needs unconditional love, lots of it. A scared little girl that just needs acceptance and doesn't know any better because her parents abandoned her growing up.

Contrary to what I said in other threads I think if I truly understood her actions, and didn't see it as a threat the relationship could've worked. I'm not speaking for everyone, my experience didn't involve cheating, or any of that...

Thing is I realised all this waaay too late.

Not taking the blame here, don't really think anyone is to blame really, I just understand her better now.
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Meili
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« Reply #40 on: July 01, 2016, 01:53:36 PM »

Yep, that's my story too bAlex. I learned too late.

BUT, I will also say that I was only responsible for half the r/s. I can take credit for my missteps, she has to take credit for hers.
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bAlex
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« Reply #41 on: July 01, 2016, 02:22:08 PM »

Yep, that's my story too bAlex. I learned too late.

BUT, I will also say that I was only responsible for half the r/s. I can take credit for my missteps, she has to take credit for hers.

I do understand what you mean, but at this point I don't even see the point in either of us owning up to our part in any of it. I see it as totally irrelevant. She admitted to some of her mistakes but ultimately it didn't make a difference. Mistakes were made on both our parts and that's ok. I don't love her any less because of it, I have forgiven her and I don't hold the past against her.
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Circle
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« Reply #42 on: July 01, 2016, 09:32:39 PM »

Yeah, it's great to look back and say "if only I had known the techniques and strived for excellence, there is a possibility it would've all worked". The thing is, we are all human, and even at our best, we probably hit 9/10 or 90%. Which still leaves 1 day out of 10, where you aren't going to get it right. So, in line with the theme of the article; on the 10th day, you make a mistake. And, guess what? It's not alright; you've been blacklisted.

"But, I've been doing everything by the book!"

Not on the 10th day you didn't. On the 10th day, you were human, you let down your guard, decided it was alright for you to be normal, and make a mistake. Well, guess what? You don't get a free pass. Because, you're not allowed to make a mistake.

Unless of course you're a perfect 100%, all the time: validating, not j.a.d.e.ing, staying calm, walking away from conflict, being compassionate, not being too co-dependent/care-taking, setting up your boundaries.

It's not like being human, at home, in normal life. It's like war. You don't get to mess up; cause if you do, you've just stepped on a grenade, or taken a bullet, and you're back to square 1, trying to 'Stop the Bleeding'.
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HoneyB33
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« Reply #43 on: July 01, 2016, 11:53:02 PM »

Totally true Circle, and who the h*ll can live like that? I sure can't. To be severely punished for not being 100% perfect? That's miserable. Plus, I don't want to be perfect, I rather enjoy my imperfections because I find they lead to really beautiful things if I learn with them.
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bAlex
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« Reply #44 on: July 02, 2016, 04:21:32 AM »

Circle,

Would you be with someone who constantly tells you what a bad person you are? That's how she perceived it, I didn't see it that way. I'm not suggesting anyone put up with anything that makes them unhappy, I'm just saying that I understand her motivations for her actions better. And if those actions aren't intended to be hurtful nor perceived as such who's to say that such a relationship isn't sustainable? Different people/problems/situations, I'm speaking strictly for myself here. Perfection wasn't an issue in my case, but the need for her to be loved and what she perceived as hurt was.
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bAlex
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« Reply #45 on: July 02, 2016, 04:25:01 AM »

Totally true Circle, and who the h*ll can live like that? I sure can't. To be severely punished for not being 100% perfect? That's miserable. Plus, I don't want to be perfect, I rather enjoy my imperfections because I find they lead to really beautiful things if I learn with them.

Sure, but that's if you think you actually need to be perfect. Just the act of thinking that will cause a relationship to fail. I don't know your story, but mine didn't involve what you speak of.
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Meili
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« Reply #46 on: July 02, 2016, 07:32:22 AM »

I do understand what you mean, but at this point I don't even see the point in either of us owning up to our part in any of it. I see it as totally irrelevant.

Well, yeah, totally irrelevant as far as the od r/s is concerned. But, what about you as a person going forward in your life?

We cannot change our pasts. Those have already been written. But, we have control over our futures. Looking at our actions allows us to change, grow, and evolve. It can keep us from repeating old patterns and thus help avoiding repeating the same hurts.
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Circle
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« Reply #47 on: July 02, 2016, 12:18:56 PM »

bAlex,

I have been with somebody who has told me what a bad person I am; namely my dxBPDso. Who is to say such a relationship isn't sustainable, you ask? Good question. Probably a good many people on the law boards here would say that it is not. Even though, I am sure that many of them sympahized with their pwBPD's plight and used techniques, etc.

The problem is, it doesn't matter if you understand/sympathize with someone's plight, if they go for the heavy weaponry (legal action, the law, custody, false accusations, smear campaigns, etc.) and decide to take you out. Or, you are practicing the techniques and being cheated on. That's like trying to grow crops in the desert. You can do it; but is it sustainable?
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gotbushels
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« Reply #48 on: July 03, 2016, 10:48:53 AM »

Yeah, it's great to look back and say "if only I had known the techniques and strived for excellence, there is a possibility it would've all worked". The thing is, we are all human, and even at our best, we probably hit 9/10 or 90%. Which still leaves 1 day out of 10, where you aren't going to get it right. So, in line with the theme of the article; on the 10th day, you make a mistake. And, guess what? It's not alright; you've been blacklisted.

"But, I've been doing everything by the book!"

Not on the 10th day you didn't. On the 10th day, you were human, you let down your guard, decided it was alright for you to be normal, and make a mistake. Well, guess what? You don't get a free pass. Because, you're not allowed to make a mistake.

Unless of course you're a perfect 100%, all the time: validating, not j.a.d.e.ing, staying calm, walking away from conflict, being compassionate, not being too co-dependent/care-taking, setting up your boundaries.

It's not like being human, at home, in normal life. It's like war. You don't get to mess up; cause if you do, you've just stepped on a grenade, or taken a bullet, and you're back to square 1, trying to 'Stop the Bleeding'.

So good. Thanks for the accurate reminder.  Smiling (click to insert in post)
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bAlex
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« Reply #49 on: July 04, 2016, 07:39:09 AM »

I do understand what you mean, but at this point I don't even see the point in either of us owning up to our part in any of it. I see it as totally irrelevant.

Well, yeah, totally irrelevant as far as the od r/s is concerned. But, what about you as a person going forward in your life?

We cannot change our pasts. Those have already been written. But, we have control over our futures. Looking at our actions allows us to change, grow, and evolve. It can keep us from repeating old patterns and thus help avoiding repeating the same hurts.

Nah I've just let go of the finger pointing and the need to be right. That makes moving on a whole lot easier imo. She knows what she did, so do I. Although she might not admit to some of it, like we discussed earlier, it's probably just too painful for her to do and I'm ok with that.
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Herodias
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« Reply #50 on: July 04, 2016, 07:56:23 AM »

Circle,

Would you be with someone who constantly tells you what a bad person you are? That's how she perceived it, I didn't see it that way. I'm not suggesting anyone put up with anything that makes them unhappy, I'm just saying that I understand her motivations for her actions better. And if those actions aren't intended to be hurtful nor perceived as such who's to say that such a relationship isn't sustainable? Different people/problems/situations, I'm speaking strictly for myself here. Perfection wasn't an issue in my case, but the need for her to be loved and what she perceived as hurt was.

This is why I believe mine left... .the only problem is that he was screwing around with women, spending all of our money and getting us in debt, drunk all the time, on pills, driving and getting in car crashes! How could I not say anything? I tried to be very understanding, I suppose I just came off as a pathetic person willing to deal with him like that... .the whole situation was sad. I do not believe he has changed one bit. He insisted he wanted to drink for the rest of his life... .I do not believe he will change with the next person. He already told me she doesn't like it either. I can say that was my part in it- trying to make him clean up his act, but then that's controlling - I can't win. This is why I don't see how I was to blame for anything here except getting into it in the first place. He is how he is, I cannot change it. My changing myself made it worse.
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bAlex
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« Reply #51 on: July 04, 2016, 08:14:39 AM »

Circle, I see what you mean. But it is entirely dependant on the situation and the people involved. My situation didn't involve such things like you mentioned, that's why I think that a rs in my case would be doable if you truly understand that person's motivations and actions and don't see it as threatening. I'm not saying it will be easy all the time, and it does depend on what that person actually does, but I'd be lying to say it isn't possible.

Don't get me wrong, I'm in no way beating myself up about it or looking back and torturing myself. It's merely an observation about my ex and the way she is. I don't believe her to be a malicious person now that I look back, I just didn't understand her back then, like most guys still don't today.
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Meili
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« Reply #52 on: July 04, 2016, 08:32:08 AM »

That's exactly how I look at it bAlex. My x got so sick of hearing me say things to the extent of, "I know that you're not being malicious," or "I know that you're not intentionally hurting me." When I told her those things, I was hoping that she'd stop and look at what she was doing. I'm not sure that ever happened.

But, I do agree with you that it depends on the people involved. There are people out there who are disordered and have loving, lasting r/s. Like any couple, it takes the right combination, learning how to deal with each other in a manner that sustains the r/s, a lot of love, compassion, caring, and understanding, a lot strength and courage, but most of all, a lot of desire. It has to be something that they both truly want for reason other than it's what they want.
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goateeki
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« Reply #53 on: July 05, 2016, 09:44:09 AM »

I have to add something here.  It will make me feel better and add to the discussion, I think.  Let me start by quoting part of what Green Eyed Monster said: " Their disorder is quite literally a guard against having to feel culpability... ." This is brilliant. Many have said insightful things on this site, but this one is really helpful.

Background: Ex wife has huge history of trauma, 19 year marriage imploded a few years back. She is diagnosed. Children (girl, 12 and boy, 9) in therapy. Girl resistant to it, boy actively seeks it out.  Ex wife told me specifically that she did not want me to tell her emotionally significant things boy was saying while he is with me, such as asking me why we divorced and if we could please remarry. She insists that I report every sneeze, but if the children are in emotional distress, she wants nothing of it.

I mentioned to the children's therapist that this was happening. She asked both of us to come in speak with her.  During discussion, ex wife stated that -- and I quote -- I was "never around" during our marriage.  When asked if she could identify one positive quality that I possess, she said she could not.  This is the woman who wanted to marry me and initiated two pregnancies.

I don't think I could have been more "around" during our marriage than I was.  I'm reasonably sure that the nons here who deal with pwBPD on a regular basis know just how intensely jealous they can be, how suspicious they can be of every other relationship a person has -- extending even to mere acquaintance.  I was one of the people subjected to this.  I ended friendship after friendship to make this person feel secure that I wouldn't leave her, as her mother did when she was 11.

The reasons she advanced at that moment for the end of the marriage are pure fiction.  Over the years, she has said some things that have seemed to conflict strongly with reality, but these two statements to me represent wholesale revision of our life together. 
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