our choice of friends

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hello All,


Do we non's choose unhealthy friendships or are we unhealthy and the best we can get is a "banged up" person as a friend?

I have always been motivated to meet new people and always tried to be therefor friends.  Looking back, it seems most of my male (I am male as well) buddies were a bit dysfunctional and saw our friendship as merely hanging out. I treated it as we were family. This is due to not having a family. Not hanging out anymore was no big deal for them but devastating for me. I saw it as loosing family. 

Many of these guys were misfits and that is what brought us together. A few have cleaned up their act and do not want to associate with the past anymore.

I see the few healthy people I remained friends with are still my friends and we are in touch. The ones who fell by the wayside are not in touch with each other so it's not like they are ostracizing me.

Should I use what I have learned on this forum and accept the fact I chose some disordered people to become friends / family and when they move on it should be of no consequence to me?

  I am in my early 40's and many moved on by my mid 20's. I feel like an autistic person in a room waiting for his friends / family to show back up. Admittedly, I may have been slightly clingy / needy and i do not think I was too socially awkward. My humor is a bit vulgar at times. Whenever they got girlfriends, I knew enough not to bother them that much as they needed time alone, etc.

On the other hand, sometimes it's natural for people to move on and cut ties with the past. I cannot and never could.

I go on facebook and see people I vaguely know having a great time with lifelong friends and it pains me. I need to stop going to facebook.

Your thoughts please

Thanks

[Please help]

Hello All,


Do we non's choose unhealthy friendships or are we unhealthy and the best we can get is a "banged up" person as a friend?

I have always been motivated to meet new people and always tried to be therefor friends.  Looking back, it seems most of my male (I am male as well) buddies were a bit dysfunctional and saw our friendship as merely hanging out. I treated it as we were family. This is due to not having a family. Not hanging out anymore was no big deal for them but devastating for me. I saw it as loosing family. 

Many of these guys were misfits and that is what brought us together. A few have cleaned up their act and do not want to associate with the past anymore.

I see the few healthy people I remained friends with are still my friends and we are in touch. The ones who fell by the wayside are not in touch with each other so it's not like they are ostracizing me.

Should I use what I have learned on this forum and accept the fact I chose some disordered people to become friends / family and when they move on it should be of no consequence to me?

  I am in my early 40's and many moved on by my mid 20's. I feel like an autistic person in a room waiting for his friends / family to show back up. Admittedly, I may have been slightly clingy / needy and i do not think I was too socially awkward. My humor is a bit vulgar at times. Whenever they got girlfriends, I knew enough not to bother them that much as they needed time alone, etc.

On the other hand, sometimes it's natural for people to move on and cut ties with the past. I cannot and never could.

I go on facebook and see people I vaguely know having a great time with lifelong friends and it pains me. I need to stop going to facebook.

Your thoughts please

Thanks

[eeks]

Hi please help,

I would say that friendships could have some of the characteristics of intimate relationships, in that we are likely to choose friends at a similar level of emotional maturity to ourselves.  (Otherwise you would probably find that you did not have much in common.) 

I wouldn't put phrasing on it like "the best we can do", though, because to say "I am not satisfied with this situation, but it is probably the best I can do" is so characteristic of the kind of rationalizing I hear from myself and other people who grew up with emotional dysfunction.  That's not to say we should go to the other extreme and become unrealistic and entitled, but an opportunity to notice that fulfilling friendships are at least theoretically possible.

I have always been motivated to meet new people and always tried to be therefor friends.  Looking back, it seems most of my male (I am male as well) buddies were a bit dysfunctional and saw our friendship as merely hanging out. I treated it as we were family. This is due to not having a family. Not hanging out anymore was no big deal for them but devastating for me. I saw it as loosing family. 

Many of these guys were misfits and that is what brought us together. A few have cleaned up their act and do not want to associate with the past anymore.

This is interesting.  It sounds like you perceived a higher level of emotional intimacy and relying on each other in these friendships than they did.  Can you look back and think of why that might have been? 

I see the few healthy people I remained friends with are still my friends and we are in touch. The ones who fell by the wayside are not in touch with each other so it's not like they are ostracizing me.

Should I use what I have learned on this forum and accept the fact I chose some disordered people to become friends / family and when they move on it should be of no consequence to me?

I'm glad to hear you have some healthy friends you are in touch with.

If you really do believe that the disordered friend moving on is "of no consequence", then stick with that.  I wonder if there are some emotions under that, though, and you might need to do some grieving of those friendships anyway?

I relate to some of what you are saying.  At the times when I felt worst about myself, I ended up befriending people who I trusted not to judge me, and often that meant intelligent, educated people who had also been through some life challenges.  I guess I assumed that "successful" people (who had an easier time with career and relationship) would not understand or empathize with what I was going through, and give me some kind of superficial motivational lecture. 

However, choosing friends who have also been through life challenges (even if they have had some therapy and personal growth) has had its own drawbacks for me, in that the result is often that neither of us can give the other what they need, and the friendship often ends in conflict.

Thanks for this thread, I am doing some reflecting of my own on friendships.

eeks

[eeks]

I go on facebook and see people I vaguely know having a great time with lifelong friends and it pains me. I need to stop going to facebook.

I hear you, about how it feels to see things like this on social media and that the first idea for a solution is to avoid the distressing stimulus by reducing use of social media.

And that may still be a good idea.  However, I can see here that there might be an opportunity for emotional self-awareness as well.  When you see posts/photos like this... .people you vaguely know having a great time with lifelong friends... .that burst of emotion... .what are you feeling?  Are the feelings tied to any judgments/beliefs about yourself (and if so, what are they?)  Does the feeling remind you of any past situations in your life? 

And what might these feelings be telling you about your unmet needs/what you value/what is important to you? 

[Please help]

I should re-phrase my earlier post. Many of the guys I hung with did not have the same emotional maturity as I did. I did enjoy their companionship out of need for a family. Anyone who was nice to me would have filled the role. Not having a family left a huge void in me.

Seeing happy and stable people in social media enjoying lifelong friends makes me realize my upbringing was wrong and I should have selected more "normal" people as these "normal" people would be stable enough to maintain a lifelong friendship. Mine unfortunately were / are not.

The guys I hung with probably saw me as a funny guy who they partied with. They had families and were not looking to fill voids as I was. Therefore, I needed them more than they needed me.

[Turkish]

Interesting post.

I never had family. No siblings or a father, just BPD mom, who was mostly cut off from her large Midwestern family by distance. I only met my uncles and cousins twice when I was 4 and 7.

I do have a few life-long friends, all of whom came from dysfunctional families: 2 brothers who had a likely schizophrenic (and probably BPD as well) mother. Another whose mother ran off with his dad's best friend when he was 11 (her attempts at contact over the years were weak and pathetic, so in his mind, he has no mother),  Another has a mother who may be a high functioning pwBPD, and whose dad suffers from depression. His little sister (41) is dBPD as well as some other alphabet soup diagnoses. We all consider each other brothers.

Of the other friendships I cultivated through my 20s and 30s, they fell by the wayside.  I really have no idea how healthy or not it s to think like this, but in my opinion, anybody worth a let of my time I feel that friendshio should be forever. It's not a stalker type thing, but rather "we connect, why not stay connected for the long haul?" A few somewhat long friendships with both men and women abruptly terminated. A couple just fizzled, and a couple just ended. Some were just the normal moving on and growing. Others were with, in retrospect, dysfunctinal people I was attracted to because of their dysfunction.

Through it all, I keep thinking of your point about your FOO. My friendships with the crew I've known for 30 years are solid (though the one brother no one still likes except me... .he has issues... .and my T says that this demonstrates my loyalty). Since then, however, I've not developed any close friendships. I don't know how much of it has to do with me or others.

[HurtinNW]

I disagree with the notion we pick friends or intimate partners at our own emotional maturity.

I know in many ways I am very mature and wise. I adopted kids from foster care, for instance, and 20 years of parenting them has given me many life lessons. Ditto for my work and art and writing.

I think sometimes our very fearful parts speak in relationships. We might be quite mature in some places, but when it comes to adult relationships, other parts of us speak.

In other words, we are not uniform people. One part of us may be mature and wise, another part very young. The part of me that parents is very wise. The part of me that picks lovers is very young. Interestingly, the part of me that picks friends is quite healthy and sane. I have awesome friends.

I think the question is not how we choose friends. It is what we do with the friendships we have. Do we cultivate the healthy ones? Do we let the less healthy ones drop by the wayside?

I feel I'm pretty good at distancing from unhealthy friends, which tells me my codependency with my ex is primarily a romantic/sexual dysfunction on my part, and not endemic to my entire relating skills. If your codependency is reflected throughout all your relationships then I would definitely think about that, and how to unravel and tease it all out.

Also, cutting ties is a very important function of life. What you just helped me see is I can do that with friends but not my ex. I believe that letting go of relationships that are harmful is absolutely critical for survival. Interesting how we can do this in some areas but not others. I think letting go is part of the birth cycle. If you don't let go you won't seek new friends. It can be a way of being trapped in helplessness.

Instead of focusing on the friends you have had, can you focus on creating new ones? Perhaps ones who share similar passions, values and goals?

[Please help]

I agree with how we are various pieces put together.  Old friends know my story. I think I should realize old friend does not = good friend. Friends should be for life If you connect with someone on a close level, that relationship should be able to grow. Us NON's often have an unusual approach to relationships of all kinds.

I did not go through the normal development as a kid. I as on my own at 18 living in a boarding house taking night classes with no family. I did whatever I could to collect friends as it was all I had.

I think I knew there were pieces of me missing even back then due to my upbringing. This is why I attached so easy to people. 

As of late, I can tell who grew up normal and who had it similar to how many of us had it. There is something "slightly off" in the mannerism of many of us. I could be wrong but it's how I feel. I reconnected with my 2 F cousins a few years older than me recently. They had it bad as well. Right away, I could tell their mannerisms and moods were similar to mine.

Maybe we are a bit more prone to depression than others. This causes slight levels of decreased confidence and not always bubbly charismatic. I don't know. My point being, I like friends who are similar to me. Unfortunately, many of the people who grew up rough are sort of messed up.

[myself]

As far as your 'healthy' friendships go, what's healthy about them?

What has helped keep your connection going with those people?

Has it been more on them, you, or both when finding the shared balance?

[Reforming]

Hi Pleasehelp,

Interesting subject. In the year after my relationship ended I reassessed my circle of friends and I was struck by the by how many of them (not all) were dysfunctional.

Two of my closest friends had tried to commit suicide at different points in their lives and a number of the others were struggling with a variety of different mental health problems.

Why were so many of my friends unhealthy?

I think there were a number reasons.

Firstly mental health issues are very common. Around a third of the population is effected. So there's a pretty high chance that a sizeable number of my circle would be struggling with some form of mental health issue.

But even allowing for that in my case the percentage was higher.

Why? The idea that we're drawn to people of similar emotional maturity makes sense but I also think we're drawn to people who we feel are less likely to reject us and make us feel dysfunctional.

Hanging around with people who are dysfunctional to various degrees can serve a number of purposes.

It's a way of distracting yourself and others from your own issues - especially if you chose friends who are unhealthier or less functional than you

It's facilitates rescuing or care taking which is a way of making ourselves feel stronger and heroic at the expense of the person we're rescuing. Sooner or later the person being rescued senses this and it breeds resentment.

It can be a way of avoiding intimacy. Dysfunction gets in the way of real intimacy especially where one person has the upper hand. And if you chose someone who isn't really available you never have to let them get close to you

It's a way of avoiding rejection. Many dysfunctional people have lower self esteem so they're less likely to reject you.

I will throw in a couple of other broader observations. There are a lot of dysfunctional relationships out there - including non romantic ones.

A lot of us lose touch or outgrow friendships during the course of our lives. There are lots of reasons for this. In our teens and twenties we form friendships faster and more easily because we have the time and the inclination and we're more open. Experience makes most of us more cautious

But it also takes a lot time, commitment and effort to maintain a close friendships. As we get older careers and marriages dominate our lives and we frequently lose touch with many of our friends and form fewer new friendships.

Finally FB is not a realistic reflection of anybody's life. In fact I'd suggest it's frequently the very opposite. People can have hundreds or thousands of FB friends and post photos showing an amazing social life but the reality of their life can be utterly different.

I think most of us really only have a few genuinely close friends.

Reforming

[Wize]

Hello All,


Do we non's choose unhealthy friendships or are we unhealthy and the best we can get is a "banged up" person as a friend?

I have always been motivated to meet new people and always tried to be therefor friends.  Looking back, it seems most of my male (I am male as well) buddies were a bit dysfunctional and saw our friendship as merely hanging out. I treated it as we were family. This is due to not having a family. Not hanging out anymore was no big deal for them but devastating for me. I saw it as loosing family. 

Many of these guys were misfits and that is what brought us together. A few have cleaned up their act and do not want to associate with the past anymore.

I see the few healthy people I remained friends with are still my friends and we are in touch. The ones who fell by the wayside are not in touch with each other so it's not like they are ostracizing me.

Should I use what I have learned on this forum and accept the fact I chose some disordered people to become friends / family and when they move on it should be of no consequence to me?

  I am in my early 40's and many moved on by my mid 20's. I feel like an autistic person in a room waiting for his friends / family to show back up. Admittedly, I may have been slightly clingy / needy and i do not think I was too socially awkward. My humor is a bit vulgar at times. Whenever they got girlfriends, I knew enough not to bother them that much as they needed time alone, etc.

On the other hand, sometimes it's natural for people to move on and cut ties with the past. I cannot and never could.

I go on facebook and see people I vaguely know having a great time with lifelong friends and it pains me. I need to stop going to facebook.

Your thoughts please

Thanks

Hey OP.  Like you I'm in my early 40s and have often wondered why I pick the friends that I do.  On the personality disorder test I scored 75% in schizotypal, which I somewhat relate to.  Because I have 6 siblings who I am very close to, I've never sought too man close friendships with non-family members.  My siblings are also my best friends.  I do have one very close friend but our relationship is strained right now... .growing pains I guess.  btw, deactivate your FB account.  It's all bullsh!t anyway.

[joeramabeme]

Please help

So glad you wrote this post, I thoroughly identify and have struggled with a similar series of questions for the same reasons you mention.  Your questions are very deeply rooted and there have been some some great replies.  Apologies in advance for the length of my response, this topic really hits home... .


My overall sense is your question has a bit of a “what came first; the chicken or the egg” theme.  In other words, are you attracted to emotionally immature people b/c of your background or do emotionally immature people have a propensity to gravitate to you.  My guess is that there is probably a blend of factors that determine which friendships and relationships we pick at any given tme.  But the more predicatable and important point is understanding which of those r/s’ continue over extended periods of time.  I think for most people,  level of maturity and relational needs are dynamic, so, the relationships we have over a long(er) time are more likely to be a reflection and indication of our persistent sense of self. 

. . . and saw our friendship as merely hanging out. I treated it as we were family. This is due to not having a family. Not hanging out anymore was no big deal for them but devastating for me. I saw it as loosing family. 

What I have observed in myself is, that like you, having come from a broken home where I missed out on critical developmental pieces; I have had a desire to search for those missing pieces in my relationships with others.  My best label for this desire is, “soul-yearning”; an instinctive need that my being is searching for a connection outside of myself.  The feeling is similar to the alien in the movie “ET” where all he wants to do is go home but doesn’t have a space ship and is very sad.


I also relate to the feeling that friendships/relationships have an almost life-or-death gravity about them.  An intense and out-of-balance need of looking to others to fill an instinctual desire that was left void from childhood neglect.  As an adult, I realize that what I seek from those r/s’ is beyond anything that could be fulfilled by another person – except by my parents during my formative years.  So in summary this all sounds something like; I seek a form of parental love in my adult relationships but from the perspective of a boy, not a man.  When these relationships are threatened or end it feels “devastating”.  Not that it isn’t, but much more so because of what is being sought deals with validating a fundamental part of the essence of your being. 


Seeking this love and acceptance is totally understandable and normal.  What is not normal is that we did not receive it and by the time we are aware of that, we are full grown adults.  I also want to add here that in my past, I have often times heard people talk about “self-love” as the answer.  While this is a well-intentioned comment, it is somewhat misguided in that it implies you can give yourself something that you do not have and don’t know much about beyond a visceral desire.  My takeaway from these types of comments is that I need to stay rooted in the idea that I have self-worth while I search out what I need.

Should I use what I have learned on this forum and accept the fact I chose some disordered people to become friends / family and when they move on it should be of no consequence to me?

I say yes; use what you have learned on this forum to accept that some people you have relationships with may be disordered or otherwise unbalanced but do not conclude that it should be of NO consequence to you.  Once aware that we are seeking out missing pieces of our core developmental needs from others, we may also start to become aware that we are susceptible to attracting and even promoting behaviors from others that have corresponding and complimentary out-of-balance ways of relating.  For example, I have observed a pattern of relating in my marriage that also shares a similar pattern with past friendships and to a lesser extent, even current friendships.  That pattern is directly related to the childlike parental love seeking I mentioned earlier.


In some (not all) close friendships, and my marriage, there were elements of narcissism, control and One Up – One Down relationship dynamics happening.   Dynamics that I attracted and fostered as a function of yearning for parental love.  Post divorce, I identified this as a pattern that ocurred in my marriage.   When we met, each of us had found a level of relational comfort and suitability.  For my ex; her fear lead to seeking someone willing to be controlled so that she could ease her anxiety and this fit in with my seeking a parental figure that could guide and love me.


I had a narcissistic friend (20 years ago) who fit this model of; needy child / rescuing adult pattern perfectly.  In the beginning of this friendship, it worked great.  I got the attention and valuation I sought, and he  got the unquestioning adulation and compliments.  However, over time, the relationship dynamics caused me resentment towards him because, the more valued I felt, the less willing I was to play second-best.  Staying in a “one-up/one-down” style of relationship turned unhealthy for me as, past a certain point of emotional growth, I could not sustain the emotional-health I had achieved from partaking in the relationship to begin with.  It was a friendship that started and was guaranteed to have a definite ending point.  FWIW, this guy is still a narcissist who is rescuing others today.  I picked him as a friend over 20 years ago but would not spend more than a few hours a year with him now.


These same dynamics, on a more matured level, played out in my marriage.  As I grew, I was no longer willing to except second-best.  Even though it worked in the beginning, it failed as I changed and grew into a newer self, but she did not. 


In these examples, asking for better/equal treatment, was a kind of breech of contract that I perpetuated.  The original and unspoken agreement is something like;  provide me with my parental love and I will agree to feed your insecurity and not ask for equal treatment (very generalized for brevity).  This is not a conscious decision, just a playing out of emotional internals against the backdrop of a friendship/relationship/marriage.


The problems with this type of internal emotional wiring, is that it can and often does attract people who, like us, have a primary developmental deficiency that requires a complimentary band aid to buoy feelings and provide a platform to resolve internal inconsistencies.  The “detaching” board is rife with messages blaming others for the pain they are feeling when in fact, the greater truth is more often that both parties are seeking to compensate for internal and pre-exsting emotional wounds.

I am in my early 40's and many moved on by my mid 20's. I feel like an autistic person in a room waiting for his friends / family to show back up. Admittedly, I may have been slightly clingy / needy and i do not think I was too socially awkward.

On the other hand, sometimes it's natural for people to move on and cut ties with the past. I cannot and never could.

I go on Facebook and see people I vaguely know having a great time with lifelong friends and it pains me.

It is natural for people to move on but feels foreign (and frightening) to those of us that still trying to create a childhood bond that never occurred.  I will never forget when I was 16 years old and out with a friend who told me how onerous his parents were about him being home on time and asked me how I got my parents to let me stay out so late without limits?  Without speaking a word I thought, because they don’t care.  At that moment I realized how different my home experiences were from my friends.  They were trying to break the bond with their parents and get out of the nest and I was still trying to create a bond with mine.   


People who grew up with secure attachments, aren’t out searching for them.  Those of us who never established them are perpetually seeking it; and yes, it does impact both our romantic relationships and close personal friendships – how could it not.  Try not to get hung up on the FB thing; appearances are very deceiving.  People who have secure attachments do not need to flaunt what they have and nor do they need  to covet it. 

The guys I hung with probably saw me as a funny guy who they partied with. They had families and were not looking to fill voids as I was. Therefore, I needed them more than they needed me.

I think it is critically important to use the correct words here to identify your thoughts and feelings.  You don’t “need them”;  you have already proved that you are able to get by just fine with or without them.  Rather, your sense of emotional well-being feels dependent upon them. 

Friends should be for life If you connect with someone on a close level, that relationship should be able to grow.

Not sure that friendships should be for life in the context of what you are describing.  After all, it is a 2-way deal; even if you get some deeply needed emotional comfort from a friendship, they too have needs that are likely to change and grow over time.  You can always keep an open line of communication with friends, but you may not have the close friendship you once had through no fault of either person. 


Also, you have the ability to discuss this and decide together with your friend; what type of friendship would you both like to have, it can be mutually decided upon.  If they are really close friends, share your inner truth with them.  The best of your friendships will likely respect and honor your words and needs and work with you to help you attain your desires.   Ironically, this will also help create some of the close bonds with others that are being sought after.  If we know what we need and can express this to others that really care about us, we have a chance to grow and smooth out some of the sharp edges of pain and discomfort that reside in our core being. 


Taking a chance with deep honesty is scary, yet, it can create the sense of intimacy, belonging and connectedness that we are seeking in the world.  Of course we also have to be ever mindful of who we are choosing to have that honesty with and realize that there are going to be some deep disappointments that impact us at the very core due to the original hurts we sustained during developmental years. 


Learning all this is a long process.  How to integrate past learning, forge new approaches and keep your safety zone intact takes time and persistent effort.  I was very fortunate to have met a 12-step sponsor while in my 20’s that has acted as a parental mentor for most of my adult life.  Even given this fortunate break, I am in my 50’s and still unlearning and re-learning much of what should have been passed onto me as a child.


Overall, be easy with yourself.  This a deep loss that is important to acknowledge, mourn and heal from; but not to take blame for or judge yourself about.  It is a fine line to walk along to acknowledge and stay blameless and shameless.


Sorry for the length of my post, but I sure got a lot out of writing all this out as I spent many-many years spinning in the “ether of not knowing” before I learned (and continue to learn) about these things in myself.   


Best wishes - JRB

[Please help]

I knew there was something abnormal about me almost having anxiety attacks thinking that these guys were no longer part of my life. Reasons & seasons come to mind. Late teens  and early 20's, they were breaking from families and hanging with friends. This worked great for me as they filled the role of family. Once mid 20's came about, they settled down with wives and I was not ready. It hurt like no end. I finally found my family and now they were all moving on.

I moved away to probably avoid the pain and explore the world. I always thought when i come back, they will be there. Maybe they just needed a few years off to start families etc.

I realize they have all moved on and sure there were nice times but it was not the soul bending experience I found it to be.

I need to reassess how I viewed this connection to them

Thanks

[valet]

Interesting post. I find that these days especially I am drawing very inward and have become far less reliant on other people to meet my needs. I don't ever feel lonely, and I'm not so much in the business of expecting others to take care of me or read my thoughts.

The inherent struggle for me right now is a lack of motivation. I don't feel so inspired these days like I did in the months following the end of my relationship. In other words, there is something missing. I don't want to do anything, but I also don't want to not do anything. Ambivalence, I suppose. It's time to fill the gas tank back up and getting rocking again, I think.

[C.Stein]

The inherent struggle for me right now is a lack of motivation. I don't feel so inspired these days like I did in the months following the end of my relationship. In other words, there is something missing. I don't want to do anything, but I also don't want to not do anything. Ambivalence, I suppose. It's time to fill the gas tank back up and getting rocking again, I think.

I've been in this state for the past 1.5 years, the last 7 months of my relationship up to this point.  Before I got involved with my ex I had motivation and direction.  Then I met her and all the motivation and direction became centered around her and a possible future with her.  When it started to fall apart I began spinning in the wind unsure of myself and where my life was leading.  I am still spinning in the wind post trash bin trying to find an solid anchor again, to find some internal energy and fortitude to stop spinning and push forward.

[Please help]

Most of my friends were potheads who liked acid. I smoked weed but never did the hard stuff. I drank too much. The real stoners in the group went their own way. Once even commented to me I was different from them. I can see what he meant. I was hardworking and ambitious. They were not. I think as mentioned here, alot of us becoming friends had to do with self confidence. Most of us lived in apartments and came from broken homes. Yet we lived in a fairly affluent city. This can hurt a child's development when they know they do not fit into a community's social norm.

   I tried to hang with more normal kid's from 12-14/5 but they did not care for me. I was too odd for them. They were the typical kids i.e played sports , stable homes, etc and I stood out like a sore thumb. Maybe that is why I gravitated to these guys. I moved to a new city and fell in with what I would describe the popular crowd but was kicked out. My insecurities were too much as I worried who liked me, etc and they thought I was a loser.

I may be having a revelation here. I think I had spurts of self confidence but it was not consistent. Too much going on at home probably.

I was always grateful for this group as it was the first time in my life I was around people who were somewhat stable. Thus , they became family. This was a mistake as i  should tell my inner child at 18-20, there are a few guys in the group who are worthy but the rest add nothing to me. They are not surrogate family. I am merely so weakened from a bad childhood, I will latch onto anything.

Wow -this is a real breakthrough  -   if you look at my other posts, I describe living in a fantasy world. My fantasy world friends were stable - tough guys or at least sound men, not lazy druggies.  Most of them have nothing in common with me. I simply needed moderately healthy companionship.

  I think self confidence (or lack thereof) played a much larger in my development than I thought.

  Based on my childhood, it would have taken a herculean effort to overcome self esteem issues. Everyone in my life hated me. Father blamed me for his going to prison, mother took off, etc. I have talked about this in other posts.

  At least I put myself out there trying to hang with the best quality group of people. I did meet and become close friends with a few great guys through this. 

[GreenEyedMonster]

This thread hit home for me because it's pretty close to where I am right now.

I was bullied a lot growing up, especially in elementary school.  I went through a really awkward phase around age 10 that was really hard for me.  I was a clumsy, heavy-set kid with a high IQ -- basically the epitome of a nerd.  I had a hard time relating to the interests and priorities of my peers, who were mostly concerned with athletics, physical appearance, and pop culture.  The things I was good at actually made me more uncool.  Until late middle school, I more or less had to settle for whomever would put up with me.  I found some poise in high school and fell in with a great group of friends who remain my good friends until this day, even though we see each other a lot less.  To top it off, I am an only child, meaning that I didn't have the closeness of a brother or sister, nor the social connections a bigger family provides.

I have one or two friends who are like family, but I'm also jealous of people who seem to have a circle of friends like that.  I keep waiting for the point in my life when that will happen, and going out to look for it.  This past week I was deeply betrayed by some people I had been hanging out with for about a year and a half.  I felt like we were like family, but apparently they only found me to be entertaining company.  For me, loyalty is an important part of friendship, but I'm finding that it's not for a lot of people.  In fact, people find a desire for loyalty almost stalker-ish, which I find really disorienting.  If someone is a good friend, I want to be able to call them just to talk sometimes.  That's not as common as I thought.  Sometimes when things aren't going well in life, you need someone to vent to who will just listen.  Very few people will just listen to me and validate me.  I don't have a brother or sister to do that with, so having close friends to fill that space in my life is important.  I also want friends who care whether I'm there or not, believe it or not.  I want someone who calls to see if I want to come to something, or sends me a text when they don't see my name on the RSVP list for a party.  I want a friend who is close enough that we could go to Europe and stay in a few hostels and see Scandinavia together.  My friends have other people like that in their lives.  In fact, most people seem to have someone.  Why don't I have someone like that?

It must be nice to have a circle of people who call you to do things together, for the sole reason that it makes you feel wanted.  For the most part, if I don't call other people, they seem to forget I exist

[drained1996]

"I will never forget when I was 16 years old and out with a friend who told me how onerous his parents were about him being home on time and asked me how I got my parents to let me stay out so late without limits?  Without speaking a word I thought, because they don’t care.  At that moment I realized how different my home experiences were from my friends.  They were trying to break the bond with their parents and get out of the nest and I was still trying to create a bond with mine."   


A bond they were incapable of giving you.  I feel your pain and understand the sadness understanding that fact brings.  I think it's a core problem a lot of us here have suffered, and it's a very hard one to comprehend... .and effectively understand.