Realizing ex had antisocial personality as well

[shatra]

  I had been thinking that my ex had another diagnosis in addition to BPD---but I had been fooled  because he put up the "image" of Dad of the year, and also he "seemed" to be remorseful (so I told myself "he can't have antisocial personality---after all, he apologizes a lot"---yet I realize now he treats me in such a callous way and doesn't understand why I am upset over the breakup?
   Also, he meets the antisocial criteria for financial irresponsiblity and failure to plan ahead---yet while I was with him, I fooled myself into thinking "He's just not a numbers/math person, and his impulsivity is from BPD"!  I am only now finding out more about his lying and cheating, which he slyly hid from me in the past---so parlty I didn't know all this before, and partly I was in denial and didn't "want" to know this before... .but yes it is possible for them to have a diagnosis of BPD and APD at the same time. 
    Anyone else see this? I am hoping maybe this will make it easier to let him go

[seenr]

I think my ex had this as well.

Some authors believe that a lot of these disorders are linked and a toxic person may have traits of all of NPD, BPD, APD.

The thing I am slowly realising is that if something feels off for me/us, that gut instinct has to be telling us something. From maybe a year into my relationship with my ex, I was scared to get close to her as every time I did, boom it all came crashing down. I'm only realising now, that a pattern evolved where neither of us could let go. I'd like to think I'm an empath and a co-dependent, but over time, some of my behaviour became as bad as my Ex's. I realised last year that I wanted that to stop so I did and chose to be calm and to try to talk to her whenever there was a problem. But it didn't work... .

I just googled one page on APD & Sociopathic behaviour and this sentence stands out:

Affective traits associated with psychopathy/sociopathy include callousness toward others, limited emotional responsiveness, a deeply ingrained pattern of avoiding personal responsibility, and an absence of guilt or regret for one’s actions.

I would say this is my ex to a tee, can you say the same about yours?

[DreamerGirl]

seenr, I can definitely say that mine fits those traits as well as BPD and NPD. 

It's just a very hard thing to try and understand how another human being can not have feelings.  I'm glad we do, I would hate to be so cold and unfeeling toward people and animals.

Mine, well he has joked about accidentally hurting animals in his profession.  He uses a chain saw and there have been occasions where he has killed animals that live in trees.  He thinks it's funny although he toned that down when he saw how upset I was.  But that's the truth, he has no feelings or compassion towards anything.  Is that just Borderline or is that BPD and Sociopath. 

If they have no feelings of compassion or pain or sadness towards an animal, I would think they actually possibly feel the same way towards humans, us, as well. 

[seenr]

Yeah, my ex once joked about accidentally killing a household bird who flew through a door as the door slammed. But other times she would be horrified at stories of cruelty so I really never knew. There was also a youtube video I showed her daughter one time that seemed funny and she said it wasn’t (a kid with his mum on a rollercoaster & the kid, maybe 14, was scared, but was ok) so she apologised to her daughter. Three weeks later I saw her showing her daughter the same video & both laughing. That was hard to comtemplate - not ok when I showed it, but funny when she did.  I do have a very good friend, who is very caring towards his friends, but not so much for animals, so that’s another item into the mix. He certainly is not a psychopath.

I guess we just need to go on our instinct – if this person is causing us pain by their words & actions, it is enough to make us question them.

[Leonis]

This thread makes my ex seem like an angel.

[seenr]

 

Feel free to chime in Leonis!

This thread makes my ex seem like an angel.

[Leonis]

Feel free to chime in Leonis!

From my experience, my ex actually really liked animals. Bunnies, in particular (yes, I realized the irony of my choice in avatar). I have never seen her being callous to animals, at least.

[shatra]

Seenr wrote-- That was hard to comtemplate - not ok when I showed it, but funny when she did. 

----True---that also sounds like the BPD inconsistency---one week they hate what they adore the next week, one week the video is bad the next is it a comedy they laugh about

Dreamer wrote---If they have no feelings of compassion or pain or sadness towards an animal, I would think they actually possibly feel the same way towards humans, us, as well.

---Yes you are right---mine was the opposite--he felt compassion toward animals but not so much to people

[shatra]

Leonis wrote that the ex was never callous to animals----somehow some of them can identify with an animal---animals are less thratening and give unconditional love---they are less likely to abandon the BPD

Seenr wrote---Affective traits associated with psychopathy/sociopathy include callousness toward others, limited emotional responsiveness, a deeply ingrained pattern of avoiding personal responsibility, and an absence of guilt or regret for one’s actions.

I would say this is my ex to a tee, can you say the same about yours?

-----I saw him act callous toward others (talk nastily and act "rough", he actually had strong emotions (but not always  emotionally connected---maybe that was the BPD not the Antisocial personality)... .deeply iingrained lack of personal responsibility (always in heavy debt, didn't show up for scheduled appts with kids' teachers, no planning),  and the absence of guilt or regret?  He denied having regrets, would say whatever happens happens,,,but I think he had guilt at times... .When I told him I was upset when he cancelled a date he said "You are making me feel guilty! Stop"  So I assume he felt guilt. Is it possible for an antisocial personality disorder to feel guilt?

[Itstopsnow]

I think BPD and ASPD overlap at certain points in your relationship with them. Especially in the end when they are so  dyregulated and are in the midst of replacing you. I can only speak from dating a male BPD. He was heavy on the NPD and ASPD as well. Some may argue they are just so hurting inside that they can't see anyone else's pain. I think it's BS! I think sure they have a deep pervasive mental illness that causes mood swings and they constantly are thinking and looking at situations in distorted negative ways. But that is also because they themselves live a very deceptive lifestyle. Constant lies, manipulations, cheating . Projections . They are paranoid you are doing the same things to them because they don't trust the world and again they are living this way. They have part of their psyche stuck in the toddler phase. So they don't care or think of other's needs and wants. They care about themselves . It's an extremely selfish self centered illness. And yes it's very sad that they were hurt that bad that it crippled them emotionally.

But that doesn't stop them from knowing right from wrong. That is another reason why they experience themselves at times as being  "intrinsically bad ". That I guess is part of their conscience eating away at them. But they don't want to take ownership and fix their defective parts because then they would have to admit they are the one with the problems. That they are doing the wrongs things. They have  black and white thinking so they can't deal with that. They also have no object constancy so they don't really hold onto or value the good times you had with them. Or view all the ways you were there for them and helped them. It's an illness that affects so many aspects of their thinking and acting . It's like they are the only one who matters in this world . It's their world and we are just in it. It's very hard to understand and even when you think you do. Then random thoughts of other ways they hurt you come up.

I guess the best thing to take from it is. They are very very sick. And wasn't about you or me. It's the way the function in life. It's not personal . But they do know they are lying, cheating, abusing  etc... .Best to walk away and never look back. I haven't gotten there yet myself. But I'm hopeful. Knowing these things have helped me in my own journey to heal. We were super close to a person that is and was incapable to feel genuine intimacy. Who knows no loyalty or faithfulness and who will never experience freedom of lower self . Their passions rule them. They fool us because they are over the top into us in the beginning. This again is part of their illness . The bottom line is. They are selfish and want so bad to love and be loved but they know they are sick on some level. Some may have even been diagnosed . They are too afraid to give up their sick illusion of control . In reality they are so out of control it isn't even funny! It's sad they will never have control over their emotions and feelings if they do not seek medical assistance . And most family's are enablers . They don't know what to do or how to cope .

[shatra]

Itstopsnow wrote---
  They live a very deceptive lifestyle... .We were super close to a person that is and was incapable to feel genuine intimacy. Who knows no loyalty or faithfulness

---Yes he was so deceptive!  ANd he was constantly telling me "I'm as honest as the day is long"... .so I foolishly believed him!  I'ts true that he is not capable of feeling intimacy and is not loyal (though he said "I'm the most loyal, monogamous person in the world"... .that plus his cold, callous way of discarding people, plus his tough exterior and lack of empathy  steer him towards antisocial personality as well as BPD.
---The new person he is with recently moved closer to his city---and he responded by dating one of his neighbors---pushing the new person further away, not closer!

[Itstopsnow]

Sounds like my ex proclaiming virtue and innocence . Mine was a former catholic priest which makes it even more disgusting . Maybe what they say is what they wish they were. Who knows. It's funny... Most borderlines become so defensive saying we don't understand the depths of their pain. But all their pain is self induced. They don't trust because they can't be trusted and live a life of lies. So they question if others are lying too. They make over the top gestures to pull you in close only to become distant and aloof .  I can't imagine being ok with living like that. They feel on the outside and never belonging because they are constantly carrying on lies and a secret life. They have no one they truly can confide into . And when and if they do tell others. They spin it to make it seem they are being abused and used in their current circumstances . It's so hard to feel any compassion for them. Especially when they lean more towards antisocial . I think a lot of the (BPD) men are this way.  My was also a waif. Very needy , clingy and dependent . Only makes it seem like they are faithful and so into you. But they will drop you on a dime if they feel like you'll leave them. Carry on full fledge relationships behind your back with batting an eye . I wish him a life a misery. I have no more care for someone like him. He used my faith and religion. Physically assaulted me, verbally abused me. And made me feel like I was a bad angry person. Told complete lies about me to his other ex. He is scum. I wish I knew what was happening in his life. I really would like to have some closure. But I won't get it. At least I'm physically free. Now time to get mentally free.

[shatra]

Itstopsnow wrote--They make over the top gestures to pull you in close only to become distant and aloof .   they are constantly carrying on lies and a secret life.
---Yes thehoneymoon period was full of him going over the top for me.  And yet he is a liar

 It's so hard to feel any compassion for them. Especially when they lean more towards antisocial . I think a lot of the (BPD) men are this way.   Only makes it seem like they are faithful and so into you. But they will drop you on a dime if they feel like you'll leave them. Carry on full fledge relationships behind your back with batting an eye .

----Exactly---the lies and cheating.  And then lying about the cheating. I think BPD makes them lie and cheat out of neediness and fear of losing you, and Antisocial makes them lie and cheat out or arrogance and lack of feeling?