I think I'm a little BPD , too ;(

[Depression = 72% of members]

I will try to keep it as short and concise as I can , and try to arrange things historically. A lot of topics from the past are my thoughts and best guesses, as I have not been there, so can only try to reconstruct things:

- Granddad from dad's side, was very violent towards his family, dad suffered broken arms a few times from beatings. Dad a little bit autistic, prone to explosions etc, also beat us sometimes (my sister more than me). Funny though, that same man (granddad) was  a wonderful person towards us (grandkids)
- other granddad from mum's side, I think he... .disposed... .of his wife. The grandmum I knew as grandmum was not our biological grandmum.

* My parents argued, scream, yelled, shouted at each other a lot when we were kids. I think it's redirected aggression that dad beat us up sometimes instead of mum or his parents.
* Like us, I think dad got a lot of mental/psychological devaluation & guilt tripping from his mum. (we also got this from our mum)

* I am very intelligent and (THINK THAT I AM) social but had huge problems with dating and approaching girls. This mostly resulted in finding ... .khm... .borderliners FINDING ME on the internet. Live attempts at pairing ended up with slightly less crazy girlfriends (they were all smart, charming, intelligent and beautiful, incredible sex, etc... .just crazy). Like me?

* My insecurity (which I tend to wash out with computer gaming for the past 30 years or so) manifests inself in various manners: clinginess, abandonment issues, codependancy issues, naivety, impulsiveness, slight(?) daytime narcissism counteracted with severe loss of self worth before bedtime (best not forget computer games before sleeping), slight black and white thinking, emotional overwhelmingness, tendency to fall in love too easy, tendancy to get too intimate too fast... .

Where do I go from here? My last ex BPD girlfriend was the worst of the lot. I feel completely destroyed, and all the supposed knowledge and experience I've thought I piled on over the years does not help. I feel that she is a very extreme case of me. The difference being that I am aware something is wrong and trying to find scientifically proven solutions for my problems, while she thinks **** should I know what and is reading Byron Katy or whoever other crazy person's advice.

My (older) sister isn't even trying. Still lives with our parents, no boyfriend, no job, will sabotage and self-sabotage anything and everything not to change the status quo. Once upon a time I managed to force her into therapy and she manipulated me (I later found out) into me allowing her to quit going. Later found out from therapist (who wouldn't tell me any details) that just when she was at the precipice of change she pulled back and ran away (from everything?).

I am really $!77 and tired of this life. And listening to and reading motivation advice, and feel the fear and do it anyways. I think all (if not all, then most) of these disorders are really PTSD from childhood that are next to impossible to get rid of. *&*#$@ ^@% !

[badenergytroll]

I will try to keep it as short and concise as I can , and try to arrange things historically. A lot of topics from the past are my thoughts and best guesses, as I have not been there, so can only try to reconstruct things:

- Granddad from dad's side, was very violent towards his family, dad suffered broken arms a few times from beatings. Dad a little bit autistic, prone to explosions etc, also beat us sometimes (my sister more than me). Funny though, that same man (granddad) was  a wonderful person towards us (grandkids)
- other granddad from mum's side, I think he... .disposed... .of his wife. The grandmum I knew as grandmum was not our biological grandmum.

* My parents argued, scream, yelled, shouted at each other a lot when we were kids. I think it's redirected aggression that dad beat us up sometimes instead of mum or his parents.
* Like us, I think dad got a lot of mental/psychological devaluation & guilt tripping from his mum. (we also got this from our mum)

* I am very intelligent and (THINK THAT I AM) social but had huge problems with dating and approaching girls. This mostly resulted in finding ... .khm... .borderliners FINDING ME on the internet. Live attempts at pairing ended up with slightly less crazy girlfriends (they were all smart, charming, intelligent and beautiful, incredible sex, etc... .just crazy). Like me?

* My insecurity (which I tend to wash out with computer gaming for the past 30 years or so) manifests inself in various manners: clinginess, abandonment issues, codependancy issues, naivety, impulsiveness, slight(?) daytime narcissism counteracted with severe loss of self worth before bedtime (best not forget computer games before sleeping), slight black and white thinking, emotional overwhelmingness, tendency to fall in love too easy, tendancy to get too intimate too fast... .

Where do I go from here? My last ex BPD girlfriend was the worst of the lot. I feel completely destroyed, and all the supposed knowledge and experience I've thought I piled on over the years does not help. I feel that she is a very extreme case of me. The difference being that I am aware something is wrong and trying to find scientifically proven solutions for my problems, while she thinks **** should I know what and is reading Byron Katy or whoever other crazy person's advice.

My (older) sister isn't even trying. Still lives with our parents, no boyfriend, no job, will sabotage and self-sabotage anything and everything not to change the status quo. Once upon a time I managed to force her into therapy and she manipulated me (I later found out) into me allowing her to quit going. Later found out from therapist (who wouldn't tell me any details) that just when she was at the precipice of change she pulled back and ran away (from everything?).

I am really $!77 and tired of this life. And listening to and reading motivation advice, and feel the fear and do it anyways. I think all (if not all, then most) of these disorders are really PTSD from childhood that are next to impossible to get rid of. *&*#$@ ^@% !

[Narkiss]

Personality disorders run in my family. BPD, narcissism. I have some of the traits myself. It was worse when I was younger. I did the devalue discard thing. Clinginess and abandonment. I dove into intense relationships head first. I had an emptiness I tried to fill. My emotions shifted (although not as radically and quickly as a real BPD). I could be impulsive. I once told my BPD that I at least had one parent who loved me, but we were on the same continuum. I am more thoughtful, measured and stable but how do you make up for a lifetime of this?

[gotbushels]

Hello badenergytroll 

There have been discussions where BPD traits are extreme parts of "normal" humanity. To fit DSM5 you will require at least five criteria and get a dx by a qualified physician or P.

I would be somewhat cautious about taking a negative slant toward what you discover about yourself. Know that a lot of people may have the issues you do, and I think you did mention someone that is significantly in a much more difficult position. I want to highlight that fact, but not to alienate your ex pwBPD. Sometimes drawing this comparison can help us.

I think it's important to use what you've learned from your relationship with the pwBPD. Specifically mindfulness might help you, given the things around anger and traits that you do not desire of yourself. I think if you've already learned the tool, why let it go to waste?   

Have you considered going to see a T or P to consider strategies for yourself? I wouldn't consider it unusual to visit a professional just for a checkup, even Ts and Ps.

  Narkiss I think the "making up for time" issue is quite similar to badenergytroll's point about being frustrated(?) about carrying baggage around ("*&*#$@ ^@%"  . I don't want to seem preferential of the tools here, but I'd like to hopefully helpfully share that mindfulness might help here too. Taking quiet time to search for acknowledgement and compassion can help.   

[Mutt]

Hi badenergytroll,



You sound frustrated.

I am really $!77 and tired of this life. And listening to and reading motivation advice, and feel the fear and do it anyways. I think all (if not all, then most) of these disorders are really PTSD from childhood that are next to impossible to get rid of. *&*#$@ ^@% !

What do you mean here? Do you a mean a therapist is giving you motivational advice? Can I ask you what you're reading?

[MaybeSo]

I think all (if not all, then most) of these disorders are really PTSD from childhood that are next to impossible to get rid of. *&*#$@ ^@% !

I think you are correct, most of us carry some kind of relational trauma from childhood.  We don't "get rid of it" ... .we grow and we integrate by embracing all parts of self, including the dark stuff.

I have some borderline traits.  They were most fully apparent while I was so triggered by my partner with similar (arguably worse or more intense) traits... .the one that led me to this BDFamily.

For a while I was frozen in fear with the mere idea that I could have some of this stuff we call BPD.  But, our partners and the people we choose to love DO mirror parts of us.  We wouldn't love them if the didn't, we wouldn't be drawn to them.  Eventually I just sat with it.  The truth will set you free.  The truth of what you have been through, what you carry,  what is scary as hell... .all of it.  Trauma is life's response to life threat and that includes a child's desperate need to stay (psychologically) safe with the grown-ups that are suppose to be their caretakers... .the traits I carry are what kept me functioning and alive as a child who was living with adults who had their own unresolved trauma and were needy.   Those 'traits' w/out examination and integration do not serve me well in adult relationships anymore, and those traits come from a place of primitive fear from childhood... .so that is what I needed to see, learn and integrate... .but as a child... .they provided strategies and defenses that kept me psychologically alive as a child in  my family so that I could live and grow and be functional enough and have the opportunity to grow even more as I age and mature.   Embrace all parts of yourself.  They are well earned and come-by honestly.  The more we know all parts of self, the more these parts are not 'running the show' in ways that no longer work for us as adults.

[Narkiss]

Yes, despite the traits, I am not borderline. I can feel empty at times, but I have a good sense of myself. I do not rage or abuse others. I can see other people's perspectives very well. I am consistent and can balance my needs with theirs. In fact, I put the needs of SOs first, which is something I am working on. 

None of us here are borderline truly.

[badenergytroll]

True that.

Thanks for everyone here.

I am sort of retracing the steps and roads and paths from last year.

They say,  everybody wants to dance with the devil,  but nobody wants to pay the band.

Now, I have sort of got the "magic " skills I wanted... .  But at what price?

The price of getting to know myself? And the dark sides nobody wants to see... .In others.

:-\

[gotbushels]

Could have been worse? I think of the fellow a few years ago getting a divorce past his 60s. 

Things like that can help to refocus to things like gratitude and moving forward.

[JJacks0]

This is something that I was just thinking about... .to the point that I became paranoid that it may have been me the whole time, not her.

I have to remind myself that she had very real symptoms long before I even knew her, including suicide attempts, cutting, etc. So at most, I have symptoms as well... .but she most certainly does.

I never really thought of myself this way until recently. Since we separated a few months ago I have felt so desperate to get that attachment back.
Only when I had it, I think I began to devalue it. Of course I had reasons (her own suicide threats, calling me selfish, etc.) that made me put my wall up. But as soon as she was gone it's like I began to idealize her.  I guess these are probably natural reactions to a break-up and not representative of a personality disorder necessarily. I just have such an extreme reaction to her absence - I am so miserable, depressed, anxious and desperate to have her back. It makes me think I must have some abandonment issues myself.  I've also become so much more angry and quick to anger... .others have suggested that this is merely circumstantial, which I hope is true. It's frightening to notice these traits in myself.

[Moselle]

Where do I go from here? My last ex BPD girlfriend was the worst of the lot. I feel completely destroyed, and all the supposed knowledge and experience I've thought I piled on over the years does not help.

Well, this depends alot on you really. A person with BPD doesn't really have the ability to reflect and accept the stuff you mention here, so although you might have some traits, we can safely assume that you are on the co-dep side of the fence not the BPD side.

badenergytroll, you gotta decide to be a goodenergytroll for yourself, do the stuff for you which you clearly didn't get in your childhood. I understand it's not easy as I am on this path too, but it is rewarding and joyful each time I discover a new truth and add it to my recovery. I track it in a journal so I can see the growth when I become jaded or discouraged.

Your story strikes a chord with me because I entered a relationship last year which ended up being a similar one to my ex as well. I then hit rock bottom, decided enough was enough and entered the CoDA programme 6 months ago. I learned that the repair needed was not in the intellectual understanding side, but on my emotional side. The one (feelings based) which drove me back into a BPD's arms. My growth from participating fully has been phenomenal. Really, I have gone from a victim 6 months ago to a survivor today. I am aiming to be thriver. Its possible for all of us. I truly believe that. We just have to take it one step at at time and keep at it. The journey is a victory.

What do you think is holding you back from embracing a decision to recover?

[earlgrey]

Could have been worse? I think of the fellow a few years ago getting a divorce past his 60s. 

Yeah right, who'd want to get a divorce in their 60s!

I'm only 59 so that's OK. Anyhow... .

I am slowly recognising my own traits which have contributed to bad r/s, the latest one that I have recognised is my flipping between wanting out and wanting in... .break up/make up. Does this happen in all r/s, or is it the mark of some kind of profile?

It certainly feels to me like black/white thinking, it all seems black I want out then when I am out I reverse... .it has always been like that right through my adult life, and I have only put it into focus these last few days.

It seems part of what one can expect in a pw BPD, along of course with many others.

The reason maybe I (we?) am not really BPD (I like to think - I feel I'm more with codependent type traits) is because I am finding 'faults' and trying to change and improve damaging behaviour, whereas my STBexB/NPDw has not the slightest understanding of such a process. "There is certainly nothing wrong with me, if this r/s is not much good it is because of you!"

Actually the irony of it all is that my present r/s has never made me flip black and want out. It is just that i really have had enough of 1sided abusive cr@p. Enough is enough. But being my grand old age and married to an attractive younger woman, and D7, the idea of heading out there again alone makes me almost change my mind and want back in!

[gotbushels]

I'm not sure if you're joking earlgrey, but I can recall several people getting divorces after 60. On this site, there was one fellow who was talking about his divorce around 65-75(?) after struggling with his pwBPDSO for decades. That was strongly sobering for me.

I think a lot of us have traits that contribute to us being the partner of a pwBPDSO. Regarding the flipping, I think it's significant enough to see a professional about. I do think uncertainty early in a relationship is actually a good thing, but to make it such that it results in breakups and makeups is moving away from what seems healthy. I recall seeing an area on this site that discussed what's normal. A prolonged and repeated set of these cycles, I think that's enough of a concern. It might help to keep in mind that it might not be an issue. For example, in my life, I considered "out" a lot with my relationship with the pwBPD. But with another partner, it was never at issue. If one person makes our life very, very difficult, it makes sense to not want to be around that person a lot.

When I found things that reminded me of BPD in my own behaviour, it helped me to step back and look at the other traits. I think under some situations normal people do black/white thinking and that's okay. It takes quite a lot to be a pwBPD. I think the important thing is that you've identified it, and now you're investigating it. Then you can work at changing it.

I think you're right about a difference between a non and a pwBPD being that one is less afraid to confront damaging behaviour while the other is more afraid. I've found that there are sometimes valid reasons why a behaviour is there. For example, my ex would do things to escape pain and use pleasure to cover the pain. Alcohol, sex, or attacking others can be examples of this.

Yes, that part about heading out there again makes sense to me. I think that's quite a powerful disincentive to leaving a relationship. I think it takes quite a lot to push someone out of a relationship with this being a factor.

[badenergytroll]

Hello again after a long break. Some things feel better, other same ( = worse over time). So let me fill you in on what's up... .

What do you think is holding you back from embracing a decision to recover?

No clue. I mean, I have clues, but when you keep looking at a tree you fail to see the forest. Co-dependency is really a frustrating issue. Lack of self confidence even worse. Then comes naivety.

But the worst part, by far, is constant self sabotage. I can totally understand drug addicts. I don't need any drugs, i never did, or tried, my brain messes itself up on purpose. There is a clear path, and precise, simple things, that I need to do and practise, every day, to make changes in life. And nothing mental or metaphysical, it is studying (things required for better employment), and doing chores (for instance, looking for and applying for better employment). All tests and all people classify me as very intelligent, very sociable, easy going, good looking; nobody can get a grasp of why am I so crazy up in my head - me neither.

I learned a lot about neuroplasticity, psychology, neuroscience, itd - I know that, it is not even important to get a diagnosis - just do things that fix the problem. It is all very simple. But I practise escapism instead. Thanks to the above characteristics, I manage to get along in life without hitting *absolute* rock bottom. Simply I do necessary things only when absolutely needed - and because, they are seldom needed - I just waste my life away day after day like I did for the past many decades.

[badenergytroll]

Also, I still have the tendency to help others in a blink of an eye - without doing the same for me.

I also have, still did not learn to say "NO!" well enough. This causes great discomfort, every time I do not do that.

Is this an impulsive/ADHD issue? Are some people simply born this way, requiring this instant fix of whatnot, all the time?

I remember I was very young when I was tought chess. Or puzzles. They both require immense patience and concentration. I never enjoyed either of those activities.

Especially the losing part - which is a logical conclusion, innit? Clearly there is no way to win in activities that require traits one does not want to develop.

[gotbushels]

badenergytroll there's a lot of issues you talked about. It might help you to break it down into a simple list of things that you want to get done that are important to you. With the right amount of effort, you can get a reward, and the task will be simply cleared for you. Which is the most important issue you'd like to work on? This may be related to a few things, but don't let that discourage you.

I'll do for you here what someone did for me once, and it helped me to move forward.

It is all very simple. But I practise escapism instead. Thanks to the above characteristics, I manage to get along in life without hitting *absolute* rock bottom. Simply I do necessary things only when absolutely needed - and because, they are seldom needed - I just waste my life away day after day like I did for the past many decades.

Many of us like to procrastinate. Even the most driven have grains of procrastination. Even when we prefer one task over another, you can say the forfeited task has been procrastinated upon.

Simply I do necessary things only when absolutely needed - and because, they are seldom needed - I just waste my life away day after day like I did for the past many decades.

Many of us like to only do what's minimal and necessary to get an effect. While some people call that lazy, this quality is often a good thing because it simply recognises a shortage of resources. Many human problems involve limited resources. In fact, one of the most successful people I know described herself as very lazy.

Also, I still have the tendency to help others in a blink of an eye - without doing the same for me.

This seems like a habit. If you find the answer to "why", I think it will help you.

I also have, still did not learn to say "NO!" well enough. This causes great discomfort, every time I do not do that.

I think you know you want to work on how to say no. You certainly aren't alone in this, it's human to sometimes dislike rejecting people.

Is this an impulsive/ADHD issue? Are some people simply born this way, requiring this instant fix of whatnot, all the time?

If you're using a pathology to skirt a problem, it's going to waste more of your time than dealing with the problem directly.

I remember I was very young when I was tought chess. Or puzzles. They both require immense patience and concentration. I never enjoyed either of those activities.

Immense patience and concentration are sometimes considered very painful activities. Many people don't enjoy them because of this. If you can recognise this, I have no doubt it will change how you do things. You seem to have a variety of good traits. If you can grasp ideas around this pain, imagine the possibilities for yourself. That's hope.

Especially the losing part - which is a logical conclusion, innit? Clearly there is no way to win in activities that require traits one does not want to develop.

Not every worthwhile activity is set up into a win-lose situation. Some tasks require a compound of skills. Some tasks give a compound of outcomes. If a task is big enough, then it may help you to look at these ideas for that task.

[Moselle]

badenergytroll there's a lot of issues you talked about. It might help you to break it down into a simple list of things that you want to get done that are important to you. With the right amount of effort, you can get a reward, and the task will be simply cleared for you. Which is the most important issue you'd like to work on? This may be related to a few things, but don't let that discourage you.

That's great advice GB, for me too

Hello again after a long break. Some things feel better, other same ( = worse over time). So let me fill you in on what's up... .

No clue. I mean, I have clues, but when you keep looking at a tree you fail to see the forest. Co-dependency is really a frustrating issue. Lack of self confidence even worse. Then comes naivety.

BET, I found it helpful to put a name to all the stuff I had.

www.coda.org/index.cfm/newcomers/patterns-and-characteristics-of-codependence/

This is about the best list which described me, and I'm not sure if this is a good template for you, you can find one or make your own. But there is something about making a list - The brain can work with that, and I wonder if your scattered brain just needs a bit of structure to settle down. As GB says we tackle one tree at at time and small successes build momentum over time, and the forrest eventually makes sense. It's not linear BTW, I've found that it has peaks and troughs.

But the worst part, by far, is constant self sabotage. I can totally understand drug addicts. I don't need any drugs, i never did, or tried, my brain messes itself up on purpose. There is a clear path, and precise, simple things, that I need to do and practise, every day, to make changes in life. And nothing mental or metaphysical, it is studying (things required for better employment), and doing chores (for instance, looking for and applying for better employment). All tests and all people classify me as very intelligent, very sociable, easy going, good looking; nobody can get a grasp of why am I so crazy up in my head - me neither.

Well why do you think you self sabotage? I know this is a seemingly abstract question but whose love did you crave as a child, and what did you think you needed to do/not do to get that love. The answer may have some clues to this trait.

I learned a lot about neuroplasticity, psychology, neuroscience, itd - I know that, it is not even important to get a diagnosis - just do things that fix the problem. It is all very simple. But I practise escapism instead. Thanks to the above characteristics, I manage to get along in life without hitting *absolute* rock bottom. Simply I do necessary things only when absolutely needed - and because, they are seldom needed - I just waste my life away day after day like I did for the past many decades.

Why do you think you only do things when neccesary? I asked this question in my coda group 9 months ago. The answer someone gave, astounded me