should a pwBPD be heald acountable

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I... was loyal and understanding and forgiving against all odds, and held up to my own values.

she has convinced her flying monkeys i wasn't this

M21Y, it's hard to answer an emotionally biased question like this in a meaningful way... .it's like asking "should we avenge bad people that kill helpless puppies"... .the facts are really important. What does avenge mean (shot with a gun or write a letter to the editor)? What do we mean by kill (shot a family pet for trespassing or worked in an animal shelter)?

Stage I of detachment is to just feel our feelings (which you have done for a while now) and to start working with them.

You've acknowledged knowing that anger is a secondary feeling - its hiding from ourselves in many ways. Your therapists has suggested that you are over indulging. Some of us are too. It's a fine line.

Anyway, can you re-ask this question with some facts attached to it. I've read your posts and I really don't have a balanced sense at all of what happened.

Can you tell us your side of the story, your wife's, and your daughters? Dial us in a bit. It will be easier to answer a situational question.

PS: Can we get past the Wizard of Oz, Harry Potter , and Gangsta lingo... .its not helping you stay grounded, dawg  

[love4meNOTu]

Hi Married21Years -

I'm just going to tell you what I did, and the result.

My exhBPD sent emails to my parents and others. (Not sure to whom, exactly). My parents knew it was coming because I had warned them that it was the type of action my ex would probably do, and lo and behold, he did exactly that.

My parents told me one thing, and that was the email he sent to them made HIM look bad, not me. That is the exact opposite of what my ex intended, and that may happen to you. You might look bad to others because you are out for revenge.

So if you don't care that's one thing. I am also not so invested anymore in caring what other people think of me or my life. It's my life. I also don't think other peoples drama is attractive, in fact, when people have excessive "created" drama in their lives I tend to avoid them.

The opinion I care about is my own. How I think about me. If I did the right thing. In the end, I do believe that my higher power will be proud of how I acted, as I am proud about how I acted and reacted to the belittling instigated by my ex.

I'm not oblivious to the fact that I helped things get out of control with my ex. I did not know how to validate anyone or anything, and I was immature in some of my knee jerk responses. All of that contributed to an inferno.

I know better now, so I do better.

Bless you,

L

[Fr4nz]

I think we as nons should try and uncover all the lies and deceit. Just for ourselves.
It hurts, yet it also opens our eyes to the truth.

a BPD can never really be held accountable.
whatever acts they commit, it's always because someone behaves in such a way that they only could do what they did.

In defense of her cheating, she said:
"you forced me to, you never gave me any attention"
while it was her actually that had been pushing away any attention and intimacy for over 2 years... .

In the end it's always someone else's fault.

Exactly this! 

[fromheeltoheal]

In the end it's always someone else's fault.

Why do you guys think borderlines need to do that?

[Fr4nz]

They are VERY good at pity parties. This is rock solid. If it's good enough for court it's good enough for me. When I finally found my daughter after my ex ran away, we had three psychology experts explain BPD to the Judge. Although the doctor that checked out the evidence seems to think she strong NPD. But they all said pwBPD know right from wrong but they choose to do wrong.

That's why many BPDs end up loathing themselves, probably: they know right from wrong, yet they cannot "hold it togheter" because of their fears/impulses.

[Fr4nz]

In the end it's always someone else's fault.

Why do you guys think borderlines need to do that?

They cannot face shame, due to their self-loathing and the fact that they mostly see the world in terms of white/black; hence, inflexible psychological defence mechanisms kick in, and they end up painting you black.

From here, their self-victimization.

[fromheeltoheal]

In the end it's always someone else's fault.

Why do you guys think borderlines need to do that?

They cannot face shame, due to their self-loathing and the fact that they mostly see the world in terms of white/black; hence, inflexible psychological defence mechanisms kick in, and they end up painting you black.
From here, their self-victimization.

Pretty good!  So does knowing that take the power out of a borderline's blame?

[hurting300]

I apologize but I think I may have misunderstood the question? Every person has too be held accountable for their actions in someway. Just because someone has BPD does not mean they get a free pass. BPD isn't like schizophrenia. BPD is merely a "bad personality" honestly. Nothing chemical like bipolar disorder. I don't believe in revenge because that's petty.

[enlighten me]

I apologize but I think I may have misunderstood the question? Every person has too be held accountable for their actions in someway. Just because someone has BPD does not mean they get a free pass. BPD isn't like schizophrenia. BPD is merely a "bad personality" honestly. Nothing chemical like bipolar disorder. I don't believe in revenge because that's petty.

I have to disagree with the point that its not like other dissorders. There is a lot of evidence that shows the BPD brain differs. Firstly inpwBPD there is evidence of an over active insula. This is the part of the brain that deals with negative feelings. If this is the case then pwBPD will see everything as more negative than it is. This explains why my exgf hated the word nice. Nice to her was a throw away compliment. If something was nice then it was ok. If it was ok then it wasnt that good. If it wasnt that good then it was bad. Hence me saying you look nice turned from a compliment to a critisism.

[married21years]

PS: Can we get past the Wizard of Oz, Harry Potter , and Gangsta lingo... .its not helping you stay grounded, dawg  

Flying monkeys comes from out of the fog reference to proxy recruitment. have you read it ?

i posted a link.

[married21years]

  they know what they have done they chose a false reality to avoid pain.

i do not choose a false reality i feel the pain and i deal with it!

[married21years]

That's why many BPDs end up loathing themselves, probably: they know right from wrong, yet they cannot "hold it togheter" because of their fears/impulses.

this is what happened on our twentieth anniversary, she got a tattoo to stop everyone telling her how lucky she was. as she was having affairs behind my back.

[hurting300]

I apologize but I think I may have misunderstood the question? Every person has too be held accountable for their actions in someway. Just because someone has BPD does not mean they get a free pass. BPD isn't like schizophrenia. BPD is merely a "bad personality" honestly. Nothing chemical like bipolar disorder. I don't believe in revenge because that's petty.

I have to disagree with the point that its not like other dissorders. There is a lot of evidence that shows the BPD brain differs. Firstly inpwBPD there is evidence of an over active insula. This is the part of the brain that deals with negative feelings. If this is the case then pwBPD will see everything as more negative than it is. This explains why my exgf hated the word nice. Nice to her was a throw away compliment. If something was nice then it was ok. If it was ok then it wasnt that good. If it wasnt that good then it was bad. Hence me saying you look nice turned from a compliment to a critisism.

Every persons brain is different yes. But is isn't a Chemical disease of the brain. This is my point. It is PERSONALITY that's it. Can it be controlled with meds? No. The only thing that rarely works is "Talk Therapy". A depressed person deals with negative feelings differently as well but again that's a chemical imbalance. If someone is BPD it's literally a personality defect. Sad business it really is. In 99% of cases it's not the victims fault. By victim I mean the pwBPD

[enlighten me]

If you google BPD brain differences there are a few that can be seen. Another is that the hyperthalamus (I think) is smaller in a BPD brain. This part of the brain controls a lot of hormones. So potentially it could be a chemical thing with BPD. I witnessed with both my uBPD exs a number of hormone related behaviours and my personal unprofessional opinion is that BPD has a lot to do with hormone imbalance.

Behaviour like the angry outbursts followed by calm feels to me like a pressure relief valve going off. If thats the case then what is going on chemically in the BPD brain could explain a lot. Both my exs did a lot of cortisol reducing behaviours. One was intollerent to caffeine which increases cortisol. In her own words caffeine makes her crazy.

If you look at the behaviour patterns from idolisation to discard and compare it to what hormones you would expect to see at each stage then there for me is clue. During idolisation we have all the good hormones. Could this be countering the ones that produce the negative behaviour? The same effect is got from drugs and alcohol. Is this why pwBPD have a higher rate of substance abuse issues?

Yes I may be seeing what I want to see but as an engineer if there is a fault you look at all the symptoms and if it fits then thats probably the cause.

[married21years]

but they are aware and should be held accountable. otherwise they will never learn from the consequences of their actions.

they will never seak help. this is also a learned coping mechanism that is dysfunctional. reinforced by enablers, of which i was one!

[fromheeltoheal]

So potentially it could be a chemical thing with BPD. I witnessed with both my uBPD exs a number of hormone related behaviours and my personal unprofessional opinion is that BPD has a lot to do with hormone imbalance.

Borderline personality disorder is a personality disorder, not an organic brain disease or hormone imbalance.  We know that because organic brain diseases or hormone imbalances can be changed or balanced with medication, where there is no medication that is effective for BPD.  The other way around is possible though EM: when we're stressed cortisol levels spike, and testosterone levels spike after intense exercise, as a couple of examples, so hormone levels are behavior- and mental state dependent, so it follows that someone who experiences extreme emotions, some of which result in extreme behaviors, are going to experience hormone level fluctuations too.

[married21years]

but by keeping making excuses for their behavior, they will embolden their Armour.

pwBPD have an inner hole in them. that is sad.

in my case she had an abortion at 15, then the next month her BF died in a car crash. and she says she internalized the guilt.

she has convinced herself she was forced into an abortion. the inner toxic shame is un-dealt with and repressed and she blames herself for him dying.

she used my love to recover and suppress her feelings for years. abusing and mistreating me, to get supply to reduce her pain.

but this is her journey, and she has to want to start it. at present she just wants to carry on as she is.

getting supply from people by claiming to be a victim of me.

she even tried to gaslight me claiming i hit her, when in fact she hit me in the face with her fist many years ago and recently with a log.

[enlighten me]

This area of medicine for me is like the ocean. We know a bit about it but only a fraction of it.

ASPD is a personalty dissorder where a genetic link has been possibly highlighted. Bi polar is a personality dissorder which is treated with medication.

Every day new discoveries are being made.

I agree that pwBPD are responsible for their actions and that therapy can help them. I do wonder if the success of therapy such as DBT may have something to do with brain plasticty. Could therapy be rewiring the bad behavior to good? If thats the case then it also points to a physical problem in the brain.

[married21years]

you cannot get a pwBPD treatment unless they want it, if a pwBPD dosn't want treatment you should not be in a relationship with them in my opinion. that is a boundary i have. if you have a serious issue, you need to take responsibility for it. if it is hurting other people and you dont deal with it you have to remove yourself.

this is my personal boundary, i feared for my family's safety so i immediately sought medical help many years ago. as i was having nightmares, i now realize it is CPTSD flashbacks.

but their safety was paramount!

[Larmoyant]

Hi All

should a person with BPD be held accountable or should it just be glossed over.

should their lies be exposed or should a light be shined on it and illuminated.

discuss

Hi Married, I'm pretty resentful of my ex right now as the pain and destruction he's caused is immense. People with BPD seem to go around inflicting such pain on people who love them and impulsive or not I think they should be held accountable for their actions. If they’ve harmed you in some way and you have evidence proving this then I say point it out to them. How are they ever going to learn if you don’t? Maybe they'll seek therapy or maybe they won't, that's up to them, but maybe something will get through, at least for some, and they won't want to keep hurting people.

I don't know much about your personal circumstances or what your ex did, but it's terrible what happened to you, especially her deceiving your daughter. Personally, I wouldn’t get others involved as I don’t want to hurt him as he has me, but I can understand the hurt behind wanting to do this.

Married, have you shown your ex the evidence you have? Maybe give her a chance to apologise or make amends? I tried this with my ex and of course there’s been no apology just more blame shifting, even with strong evidence, however, I’m counting on his lucid moments when reality breaks through and he experiences guilt or sadness or whatever it is he feels. I’ve seen him like this on occasion, times when he expresses regret for some of the things he’s done to others. Not many moments like this, but I’ve been there. I am content knowing that one of these days a moment like this will arise and maybe, just for a moment, he’s sorry. Maybe, just for a moment he’ll realise that I never hurt him although I could have and that I was really there for him. Maybe just for a moment he'll hold himself accountable.

[married21years]

hi thanks, every time i have confronted her, she denied and convinced me her version of reality. she told a friend that she had cheated with a friend, then told me she just did that to not sound so sad. and yes she convinced me. doh!

this time i have kept the evidence under wraps to build a irrefutable case. the one that matters is my daughter, i cannot let her get sucked in with these lies like i did.

publishing the evidence is the only way to make my daughter safe! 

[once removed]

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