Is it normal for it to be getting worse?

[justnothing]

It’s been a bit over a week since my ex killed himself, after having first sent me a note telling me it was my fault, and I’ve been coping with it a lot better than I once would have thought I would. I’ve been trying to reach out to as many people as I can and trying to think as rationally as I can about it and for the most part that seems to be helping.

It’s just that for the past couple of days it seems to have gotten somewhat worse and I can’t even explain in what way. Like I’ll look at my new bf and feel guilty for being with him and/or spending time with him and at the same time I also feel extra pressure to “make it work” with him in the long run because if we break up in a few weeks, months or even years it’ll be like… “Is that what my ex threw away his life for? For something that was always destined to end on its own someday anyway?”

At the same time I’ll try to talk to as many people as I can and I’ll try to go over the list of people I can talk to in my mind and then realize that it’s a relatively short one because I’ve always been bad at making friends and finding people I can even relate to and then I’ll think “yeah, I’ve always had very few friends and now I killed one of them”.

And at the same time I’ll think about how I don’t want to “let him win” and I’ll feel determined to make my relationship work regardless of him and to try to work on connecting to other people and work on myself and I’ve decided after he did it that I’m now done with that type of relationship where I’m always walking on eggshells and playing the supportive role just to gain someone’s favor. But then it’s hard to break out of that kind of pattern because growing up the “supportive role” was the only role I was ever able to play without being rejected, everything else was never good enough for anyone around me.

And at the same time I just miss him. He may have been messed up and turned out to be the kind of person capable of doing what he did… but he was also a friend whom I enjoyed talking sometimes on the weekends and exchanging messages with even if they were brief ones. He was also someone I cared about and if only he had done this differently – like if only he had just told me he hated me and cut me off but continued living… then at least he’d still be alive and I might be hurt but I’d know that he was still alive somewhere and that would have been OK. His life and his happiness were important to me whether or not I was involved with them; he didn’t have to just throw them away just to hurt me. And he did it over a relationship I have that doesn’t lay on stable ground to begin with (none of my relationships ever did) I probably would have sabotaged it all on my own at some point anyway… he didn’t have to throw his life away just to try to sabotage it too.

[uniquename]

Yes. Stages of grief are the same as stages of breakup, stages of dealing with mentally ill relative. Denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance. Depression usually follows the other 3. They are cyclical and you often don't step off to acceptance for s while. Until then expect a roller coaster. I hate that you're going through this. It's not your fault.

[Turkish]

... .like if only he had just told me he hated me and cut me off but continued living…

This is hard to process,  like accepting his hate (hypothetically), might have given him reason to live. But no one's choice to live rests upon another person.  That's an unwinnable and unfair burden to place upon anyone. 

[valet]

It does get worse at first... .after that it gets better. And even then again it'll get worse.

There are no promises except those that we make with ourselves. If we keep those promises it will always be alright in the long run. These relationships can teach us the value of them. And even still, nothing is a mistake.

[justnothing]

Once again thanks everyone for the support. It certainly has been like a roller coaster ride but at least that means that I get to have breaks between the bad times. Sometimes I can’t tell if it would be better to try to distract myself more or to try to process more or just do a bit of both during different times. Today it certainly helped a lot to write this post and I very much appreciate you guys for being here so thank you.

There are no promises except those that we make with ourselves. If we keep those promises it will always be alright in the long run. These relationships can teach us the value of them. And even still, nothing is a mistake.

Thank you, I’ll try my best to internalize that. As for nothing being a mistake… it’s funny because I’ve spent my whole life living in fear of making mistakes because from age 7 the possibility that my mother might kill herself if I made one too many was always in the background… but I suppose I need to stop thinking in those terms, especially now but also in general.

[heartandwhole]

Hi justnothing,

I'm glad you posted. It's good to hear about your process, even though the reason is so heartbreaking.    I think it's very normal to have relatively good days followed by really bad ones, and every permutation in between. Grieving has recognizable stages, but we can cycle through them several times and skip steps until we are ready.

Your feelings are so understandable, and I hope your current boyfriend will be patient with you as you work through this loss and what it means to you. As    Turkish said, you are not responsible for anyone's choices but your own, regardless of what your mother's statements broadcast to you when you were young. No one, let alone a child, can bear that kind of burden.  

Keep posting and sharing. We want to know how you are doing.

heartandwhole

[justnothing]

Keep posting and sharing. We want to know how you are doing.
 

Thank you, I appreciate that.

Today I was having a better day actually but then it turned out I’ve got another friend to worry about. She’s been having some major, major health issues lately and apparently they just got worse… so, like they say, when it rains it pours…

[pjstock42]

One thing I've learned from this is that there is no "normal" in regards to this healing process.

You can go multiple days where you feel like you've turned a corner and then everything can come crashing down again in an instant for seemingly no reason. I'm trying to stop pondering whether or not my progress is "normal" because I just don't think there's a baseline there for comparison.

Hope your friend is doing OK.

[justnothing]

I'm trying to stop pondering whether or not my progress is "normal" because I just don't think there's a baseline there for comparison.
 

Yes, I suppose you’re right…

Hope your friend is doing OK.

Thank you, I hope so too.

The thing is [bear with me, some of this is going to sound kind of crazy], she’s my best friend [even though she’s almost 40 years older and only talks to me once a week because of some weird rule of hers] and after a lifetime of having very few friends and always having rotten luck with people she’s been a huge blessing in my life for the past several years. She’s always had high blood pressure and refuses to take meds because she’s paranoid about the effect they might have on her liver or whatnot and a couple of months ago she had a stroke. The irony is that my ex was actually one of the people who comforted me after that happened at the time and back then I actually had the thought at one point that “at least I’ll still have him” if she dies… So anyway, today she didn’t want to tell me what happened because we agreed to not talk about her health [because the last few times I got too pissed at her for not taking meds or consulting with doctors] and she said that she just wanted me to do the talking because it was important for her to be able to be there for me while I’m grieving but she was only able to do it for half an hour and then she had to go because she’s not feeling well for a reason that she didn’t want to tell me but implied strongly that it was related to what happened two months ago… So basically I’m trying not to panic right now because maybe she’ll end up being just fine and keep on living for many years to come but right now it’s kind of hard not to.

[JQ]

Hello JN,

I'm sorry to hear about your loss and I truly do wish you peace and the strength you need at this time. I hope that you know that nothing you did, didn't do or said or didn't say caused him to do this horrible act. Those who suffer from BPD a Very Serious Cluster B Mental illness have the highest rate of suicide idealization & the highest of all mental illness of completion of the act. I fear for my exBPDgf safety & well being because of her BPD. She has talked to me about it more than once, how she would do it, make it look like an accident to her kids. But know that you, me, everyone in the group & mental health professionals couldn't do anything about your exBPDbf and the act he committed. YOU did NOT kill him and you need to tell yourself this, YOU need to BELIEVE it!

I think you reaching out to so many is a very positive thing and I really commend you, trying to seek out an answer as to why and trying to make sense of it all. Chances are it never will make sense but as someone pointed out, YOU need to take care of YOU and YOUR needs.

Reading your post I noticed a couple of things. "But then it’s hard to break out of that kind of pattern because growing up the “supportive role” was the only role I was ever able to play without being rejected, everything else was never good enough for anyone around me."  You took care of a family member in order to seek out approval, love, some kind of acknowledgment but it never came.  Growing up in your family doesn't sound all that much different then me growing up in mine or I'm sure others in the group could tell you similar stories. We're NONs aka "Codependents", it's who we are because of how we grew up. I like you grew up in a supportive role & continued the supportive role my entire life until recently. I'm here to tell you that YOU can break the cycle you've been in. I & others here are proof of that! It's not easy, it going to suck, but in the end you're going to be so much better off learning to love yourself and developing your own sense of self!

I supported my BPD step mother/sister & 1/2 brother, emotionally, physically, mentally, financially over decades. The ironic thing is I had to learn about BPD from a recent exBPDgf who told me she was diagnosed with BPD. I then dove into everything & learned all that I could about it. I learned I was a NON and I enabled their behavior. I accepted their behavior of emotional, physical, mental abuse in order to maintain some sort of r/s with them hoping that someday I would finally hear the words I wanted to but they never came. Like you I gave & I gave of myself until I was near complete mental / physical collapse from my exBPDgf & her behavior. Then realized with the help of a couple of good therapist that she had the same behavior as my "family" did and I was reacting & behaving the same way with her as I was with my family in order to prevent a life without her ... .or them. I was seeking the love, approval, & the words I never had in my family from her. It would never come because she helped me continue the cycle of abuse. I was the one responsible to stop the cycle.

Once I put in boundaries with my family, enforced them & they reacted in the way I expected it was easier to separate them from my life. I was tired of giving and receiving nothing in return. A r/s is suppose to be a 2 way thing, you give and receive on both parties regardless if it deals with siblings, parents or a s/o. If you give of yourself, your mind & soul & don't receive an equal amount in return then ask yourself is this really a r/s that you want to be a part of? I also learned that my BPD "family" perpetuated my love BPD r/s and I had to stop all of it. Once I did that the anxiety started to decrease. My day to day happiness started to increase & those who remained in my life that were NOT BPD noticed a difference & our r/s became better, stronger for it.

His life & happiness were important to you but ask yourself this. Is your happiness & your life more important to you? Is your life & happiness more important to you than your family who you played a constant supportive role for? If not then maybe you need to reevaluate things. YOU are responsible for your life & happiness and NO ONE ELSES.  You need to apply the 51% rule here and learn to like yourself, learn to be ok with yourself, learn to have a sense of self.

I was like you, I found happiness in the success & happiness of others. It eventually caused a lot of pain, heartache & problems beyond anything I could ever imagine. Once I found a sense of self without others then I could move forward in MY life & I was happier. And others have noticed & want to be a part of my life without wanting anything in return and these r/s are more than the others could ever be.

I do care about my family & my exBPDgf, but my happiness, my life NO longer revolves around them. The boundaries in place protect me from them. MY anxiety for all purposes is gone. I got there with a lot of help & I hope that you have sought out a really good therapist who is experienced in Codependent / BPD r/s to help you through this. To help you learn more about you & why you are the codependent that you are so you can finally learn to let go of all the baggage that got you here. That will help you break out of your "supportive role" and learn to live life for YOU!

I truly wish for you all good things on your journey of self discovery. I wish you peace & contentment. I wish for you that you will learn to love yourself more then you do others and that you find happiness in yourself without the approval of others. It is truly liberating when you do!

J

[justnothing]

Hello JN,
I'm sorry to hear about your loss and I truly do wish you peace and the strength you need at this time. I hope that you know that nothing you did, didn't do or said or didn't say caused him to do this horrible act. Those who suffer from BPD a Very Serious Cluster B Mental illness have the highest rate of suicide idealization & the highest of all mental illness of completion of the act.

Thank you. I’ve been trying to keep that in mind it’s just that... .statistics or no I know it wasn’t necessarily his destiny to kill himself. He had made improvements on his own over the years, he seemed very strong and capable when faced with many other obstacles that would have broken many people and I fully believe that if he’d gotten therapy and applied himself to it that he could have gotten to a point where suicide would have never been an option. It’s just that he didn’t get therapy; he kept convincing himself that it wasn’t an option for him and I don’t even know how true that even is. I don’t understand why he was able to overcome abuse, hardships at work, major health problems but he wasn’t able to overcome the fact that it took me time to tell him about a new relationship and that I drew a boundary…

You took care of a family member in order to seek out approval, love, some kind of acknowledgment but it never came. 

Um… well that’s where it gets kind of messy… you see the approval, love and acknowledgment did come… at times… it sort of came and went, if I’d done everything just perfectly and if on top of that she also happened to be in the right state of mind than my mother would shower me with love and approval for it. I can’t say I didn’t get plenty of conditional love from her, it’s just that… that was the only option. And then when I tried going out into the world and facing others I was met with unconditional rejection everywhere I turned. So it was either “play that role and maybe you’ll get what you want” vs. nothingness.

With my ex I can’t really say that it was necessarily a one way street. There had been a few times in which I considered letting the relationship fade out because it didn’t seem too healthy but I was afraid of leaving him alone without any friends… but other than that talking to him was often quite enjoyable. Sometimes he was supportive of me too when I was in need. One of the last conversations I had with him was about movies, history and Southpark… and he seemed fine… supportive, normal(ish), somewhat content with his life and with no indication that something like this could happen…

[JQ]

JN,

I can't say if it was or wasn't his destiny to end his life ... .I don't know if you can say that about anyone right?  I can say those with BPD are very VERY mentally ill with very tortured minds. He like others who have BPD can managed day to day challenges at work, car breaking down, etc, but it's the relationship part of life that he and so many others have the day to day challenges with. My exBPDgf has a Ivy league education with 2 Master's, she's a very incredibly smart woman working for a Fortune 300 company ... .but it's the r/s aspect of life that she just can't manage.

You said, "he wasn’t able to overcome the fact that it took me time to tell him about a new relationship and that I drew a boundary".  This is part of the r/s that they struggle with ... .as you've read pwBPD have EXTREME fear of abandonment & engulfment that lead to Push / Pull behavior.  Once I decided I had enough of the constant going back & forth I decided to pack up everything I owned & moved out of state. She called me driving frantically down the road looking for the U-haul asking me to come back ... .& less the 12 hours earlier she had told me to my face that she didn't love me & was pursuing a r/s with another man. It's this behavior of love, friendship, mother to son, father to daughter, brother to brother, wife to husband that is at the base of BPD behavior. They just can't seem to manage the love & caring that we as NON's want to give them which sadly they've wanted all their life but are INCAPABLE of managing.

You said, "Um… well that’s where it gets kind of messy… you see the approval, love and acknowledgment did come… at times… it sort of came and went, if I’d done everything just perfectly and if on top of that she also happened to be in the right state of mind than my mother would shower me with love and approval for it."  This is what I'm referring too ... .we as NON's received very little if any "approval/love/acknowledgment" from those we're suppose to receive unconditional love from, our parents. BUT, we had to be "PERFECT"  you also said "on top of that she also happened to be in the right state of mind" which is "normal" for someone with BPD.  YOU had to be the perfectionist, give & give of yourself mentally, emotionally, physically to "MAYBE" get something in return. We were always chasing love, we wanted to make our parent proud, see what I did? But more times then not it never came. Because they are INCAPABLE of managing ANY relationship.

We then enter the outside world & perpetuate our "love relationship" with this warped sense of self & continue to give & give of ourselves to those who show nothing in return as you pointed out. You said, "play that role and maybe you’ll get what you want” vs. nothingness."  This is where you, me & other NONs really need to dive deep in our own self evaluation. As you pointed out, "it gets kinda messy" ... .I've said it's going to suck, it's going to be ugly but in the end you will end up with a sense of self that you've never had before. It's so liberating and freeing knowing that people will still like you, still want to spend time with you and still want to share their life with you. That they will return your love, friendship, and your genuine concern for them equally back towards you just because they like you, they love you, they want you to be their friend for no other reason then they like you at the core of who you are. IMHO, no one else is worthy of my time if it is a one sided relationship and they want to be an emotional vampire sucking out the very life of my soul.

It is a difficult & challenging journey on our path of self discovery JN. Like me, like others you will stumble on your path up the mountain of self enlightenment.

BUTTT trust me ... .the journey is so worth the view once you get to the top of the mountain!    

JQ

[pallavirajsinghani]

Perhaps you are aware of the following lines:

Hell hath no limits, nor is circumscribed
In one self place, for where we are is hell,
And where hell is must we ever be.”

― Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus


These are the lines spoken by Mephisopheles.  Hell is not a place, it is a state of mind.  No one is/was the cause of the suffering and the hellish pain.  Blaming you was a desperate attempt at understanding the cause of the pain, it was a desperate attempt at finding some logic, origin and reason for the pain.  This is why you got blamed.  BPD is a disease of dysphoria.  It is unending pain and people in pain lash out. 

While you can feel sorrow and grieve, you cannot rationally accept that you are the one who precipitated someone to take their life.

Please do consider grief counseling... .if available to you.

God Bless.

[justnothing]

Thanks again for the replies, I appreciate them and sorry for taking time to reply and… well… that I never the less keep going over the same points over and over… it’s just that those same points keep coming up again and again.

To JQ, I guess I probably should have mentioned this before (I kind of did in the past but in a different part of the board so it’s understandable not to have seen it) but part of what makes things so difficult and confusing when it comes to my ex is that I’ve got BPD as well and the only difference between him and me is that I’ve been in therapy for the past 16 years whereas he only ever got a few months-worth or so of therapy only he didn’t follow up on it because it didn’t feel right for him or because of some excuse or another… well that and the fact that his childhood was like 50 times worse than mine. But other than that we had enough in common that… on the one hand I feel like ought to have been able to empathize with him more and I ought to have been able to see this coming and that I ought to have known what to say and what not to say and how to not have said it… and I even wonder if there wasn’t a time, like even a year or so ago, where I would have known better than to set a boundary with him or I would have known better than to tell him about the trip at all or something like that… And at the same time I suspect that I might have done some projection with him because, for example, back when broke up with me 5 years ago it hurt like all hell but my way of dealing with it at the time was that I bought myself a couple of new video games… and before that when he started making new friends I did feel intimidated by that but I didn’t say or do anything about it because I wanted him to have friends in spite of myself and when my bestie (she also has BPD but she’s had 30 years of therapy) and I set boundaries with each other somehow we’re each able to deal with that. And throughout my adult life I used to be suicidal and easily triggered and so I know what that’s like but eventually I managed to overcome that and when looking at my ex… he seemed so capable even without therapy… back when I met him he used to self-harm a lot and I was actually the one that got him to stop doing that… and he’d been able to stand up to so many challenges that I really believed that there was room for hope with him over time.

I guess what I’m saying is that I know from myself and from other pwBPD I’ve met that there’s hope so I don’t have the luxury of being able to say that there was never any hope for him to begin with… so it’s this idea that maybe along the way things could have gotten better for him if only he’d stayed alive… like if only I’d made a better choice of words or taken a different course of action… that’s what haunts me.

Today I saw a poster of the movie “The Hunger Games” and I remembered how when he and I talked about it he told me that he didn’t like the main character because of how she pretended to love one of the other characters and he said that was a big trigger for him because of his ex who cheated on him. And looking back at it it’s like “I should have known that not telling him about my new bf for a while would be a trigger for him” but at the time I didn’t know he’d see that as being on the same level as lying or that he’d be as triggered as that… so it’s like I know that I didn’t know but I keep thinking that “I should have known”.

Please do consider grief counseling... .if available to you.

Well I have a therapist… idk if grief counseling is any different but I’ll try looking into it. I doubt there’s any available in my area but thanks for the suggestion.

I thought that I had been doing better but then the thing with my bestie happened so that kind of set me back. She's one of the few close friends I have left.