in a different phase

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Two weeks ago last night we thought our marriage was over, divorce was being discussed and I was moving my things out of the bedroom into the other room.

I am still in the other room, enjoying it actually. I also have "my own" bathroom. I have been able to keep things in a more orderly manner, not perfect but neater. That helps me mentally.

My wife came to me and told me how sorry she was for how she has treated me. I let her know how she has attacked my character and integrity over the time we have been together and that I was over dealing with it. She said she thought about what I said and she came to me and apologized. An act? I don't think it was. She talked about how she wants to take responsibility for her actions and the hurtful things she says to me.

At this point I am observing if words turn into actions.

Her son is still a major issue (for those of you that know that situation).

Our sex life together is still an issue. I believe she uses her weight and push/pull stuff to hide deeper issues with the sexual problems.
If she can find any reason to feel the need to push me away she will use that as a barrier.

On top of all what I just mentioned, we are struggling with marriage issues that two "normal" people may have in communicating. All the PD stuff just makes it worse.

Has anyone ever read these two books
"The 5 love languages" by gary chapman
"Her needs, his needs" by willard harley

we are both reading these books, I bought copies for both of us to read. When I hear my wife talk about trying to fix herself, that's a good sign, for now.
 

[byfaith]

Two weeks ago last night we thought our marriage was over, divorce was being discussed and I was moving my things out of the bedroom into the other room.

I am still in the other room, enjoying it actually. I also have "my own" bathroom. I have been able to keep things in a more orderly manner, not perfect but neater. That helps me mentally.

My wife came to me and told me how sorry she was for how she has treated me. I let her know how she has attacked my character and integrity over the time we have been together and that I was over dealing with it. She said she thought about what I said and she came to me and apologized. An act? I don't think it was. She talked about how she wants to take responsibility for her actions and the hurtful things she says to me.

At this point I am observing if words turn into actions.

Her son is still a major issue (for those of you that know that situation).

Our sex life together is still an issue. I believe she uses her weight and push/pull stuff to hide deeper issues with the sexual problems.
If she can find any reason to feel the need to push me away she will use that as a barrier.

On top of all what I just mentioned, we are struggling with marriage issues that two "normal" people may have in communicating. All the PD stuff just makes it worse.

Has anyone ever read these two books
"The 5 love languages" by gary chapman
"Her needs, his needs" by willard harley

we are both reading these books, I bought copies for both of us to read. When I hear my wife talk about trying to fix herself, that's a good sign, for now.
 

[formflier]

Love language book is huge!  I am "bigtime" acts of service guy.  My wife is "bigtime" touch person.  So for me... .touching is not natural but when I consistently do it in a non-sexual way... .it is very productive... .my wife feels loved.

Umm... yeah... sexual touch too!

Luckily we both are very very low on gift giving.

So, when my does do an act of service for me I really appreciate it and I also recognize when she is trying to be supportive... .but is hugging on me... .I understand what she is trying to "say".

Personally... .I'm a much bigger fan of "boundaries"... .by townsend and cloud.

That book followed by boundaries in marriage could be a huge change for you guys.

Once boundaries are established and understood, it clarifies "who is responsible" for different things.

Byfaith,

Very happy for you.  Focus on keeping momentum going.

FF

[empath]

I've read the Love Languages and His Needs Her Needs, too. They weren't terribly helpful for me and my husband. Several years ago, we read Boundaries in Marriage which I found helpful; my husband, well, thinks boundaries are punishments because it feels like abandonment to him. I also really like Beyond Boundaries by John Townsend and am currently reading Necessary Endings by Henry Cloud. They give a good idea of how to tell if there is real change.

My husband claims to be a words of affirmation or gifts guy, but he discounts my affirmations of him and his contributions and rejects my gifts. I'm not sure that he knows what he is. My top one is physical touch which is also where I feel the most pain when it got really bad and where I had to draw a boundary to keep myself healthy. Sometimes, people who are 'not of good will' can use their intimate knowledge of you to hurt you even more effectively.

PD often needs special communication tools.

[Lilyroze]

  byfaith,

"The 5 love languages" by gary chapman
"Her needs, his needs" by willard harley Are wonderful books. I am a firm believer in the different love languages and knowing each others personality types really go along way in the helping of relationships. 90% of the problems in marriage or relationships is communication. Learning understanding, empathy, compassion & better communications skills will really strength your foundation and love.

It is truly wonderful how far you both came from just a short time ago. The both of you reading the books is taking on mutual trust and responsibility to gain better understanding.

Good luck to you both. Keep us updated.

[byfaith]

I know the book on boundaries will be essential. I am going to search those out today.

To be honest I still get confused on boundaries at times.

Tell me if this is a situation where boundaries need to be set? In my opinion yes, definitely.

my wife's 31 year old son (paranoid SZ) has free access to walking into our bedroom in the evening ( still a problem)
Last night she asked me to come in and lay on the bed and watch television with her (we are sleeping in separate rooms for the time being). It wasn't 5 minutes and here he comes down the hall and walks right in the room. He did this 3 times within a half an hour. The 3rd time she told him not to come in anymore and as he walks out he shouts a profanity "He said I %uckin' was one!" (he believes I accused him of being a child molester)

This problem is not going to go away. The way I think on this is that after a specific time in the evening he should not be allowed past a certain place down the hall. My wife will not go for this. That is a physical boundary. That is one of the main reasons I have enjoyed my own room for the past 2+ weeks. I can shut the door. I don't want to remain in separate bedrooms, this to me should be temporary. That is if we work our situation out

The other boundary is emotional. I don't want to be in the same room or area with him when he is having this delusion. Although I have sympathy for him that he has to live with idea, I don't want to be subjected to it.

My wife and are are gridlocked on this subject 

[Notwendy]

A boundary isn't about someone else. It's about you. So, your step son can basically do whatever he is going to do, but your boundary is about what you will do.

Likewise, your wife isn't going to impose a restriction on him coming to your bedroom, so that boundary is still what you are going to do.

Your own room is a good boundary, because it can be your private space that you decide who comes in and who does not.

The room you share with your wife isn't a boundary that you have control over, since she has some control over it too.

You two are at a gridlock over this, which isn't an easy place to be. It may be that, you either tolerate being in her room her way, or you decide not to spend time with her in there if the son is going to intrude. She can visit you in her room if she wishes, but it is your room, your rules there.

While you wish to share a bedroom, it seems unlikely that things are going to change much.

What does the son do during the day? Is your wife agreeable to a sitter? It might mean that to have any intimate time, you would have to meet somewhere else. Like a hotel room. She may not feel so sexy with him roaming around. I know there are other problems, but a hotel room, where the two of you can snuggle- without other expectations- might lead to something else eventually if she isn't focused on him.

If he is in some sort of day program it might mean taking a lunch break to have some time with her. At his age, it would be good for him to spend some time away from her.

It is a sad reality for parents of children with disabilities who are dependent on them to think about what will happen as the child is likely to outlive them one day. Some parents make arrangements for their grown children to transition to day programs, group homes, if at all possible. You might approach the idea of a day program/occasional respite/skilled sitter as something that is good for him, if it is available.

[formflier]

It's been discussed for a while that the son is a "sticking point" or "point of contention".

On the one hand... .I hope that you can have empathy for him and your wife... .and can find ways to express that empathy.


On the other hand, your wife is clearly not an expert (nor are you) in "handling" someone with your step sons needs.

Can you guys jointly agree on an expert (I would guess PhD type Psychologist) that can advise both of you and be part of your sons "treatment team".

There is no part of me that will ever believe that "treatment" for him would involve him doing whatever he wants at home.

He will have delusions... .one's that you don't like.  You need advice on how to best respond and to do that consistently.

Thoughts?

FF

[formflier]

When I walk in the bedroom and "want" time with my wife.  I close and lock the door.  My wife does the same.

Kids knock but can't walk in.

Keep it simple.  When you want time alone with your wife... .use a boundary.  (the door). 

Close it and lock it.

Now... .before you really set off on this course of action... .I would hope you run it by your step sons "treatment team"... .whoever that may be.

Yes... .your wife can get up and unlock it. 

I'm more interested in what you do... .than they do.

FF

[byfaith]

Can you guys jointly agree on an expert (I would guess PhD type Psychologist) that can advise both of you and be part of your sons "treatment team".

Our MC is a PhD type Psychologist. He has suggested all of the things that you (FF) and notwendy suggested.
Her reply to all these things is that "he will feel like I have abandoned him" my wife cannot detach herself from her son.

It's almost like she is letting him (her son) call the shots. 

I will say the one good thing is that he is going to therapy every two weeks

my wife told me last week that she feels like she is being drained by two men. She basically tries to fill his emotional needs and I get any leftovers. To be honest she really doesn't do much of anything for me. I think just the thought of trying to give me any emotional support makes her feel resentful.

For instance last night we are laying on the bed watching tv, forgot to mention this earlier, he comes to the room says he needs her help down in his room doing something. She left our time together to go tend to him, she was gone for about half an hour. I didn't say anything.

 

[formflier]

 
This needs to come from his T.  In other words... ."In order to meet Johnny's needs, please do x,y, and z" for him.

What does his T say?

FF

[byfaith]

well to begin the weekend on a good note as I get ready to head home.

My wife texted me today and thanked me for the copy of the book "5 love languages"

Earlier in the day I texted her out of the blue and told her I would play cards with her tonight because I love her.

she has been wanting me to play but I have been kind of giving reasons why not to play... .she texted me back and said" that is very sweet of u to tell me. Thank you "

maybe we can play strip poker  RIGHT!

[Icthelight]

maybe we can play strip poker  RIGHT!

Her son said he's in
Glad you're doing better.

[KateCat]

Her son said he's in

byfaith, you are such a nice, earnest, forgiving, optimistic, giving man. Please heed what others have said about the necessity for boundaries on your part. This is not your wife's first poker game, if I recall.

[motherhen]

I hope that you have a wonderful weekend.

The love languages book is great. I have not personally read His Needs, Her Needs but have read up on it quite a bit after an acquaintance became heavily reliant on their forum to attempt to manipulate her unfaithful husband into coming back. I wouldn't recommend it for anyone but particularly those who have a BPD spouse. The basic premise is that if you don't meet ALL of your spouses need, they will stray and when they do it is your fault.
You can look at the Marriage Builders forum that is based off Dr Harley's book(s) and see how that plays out. I won't link to it here but here are a few quotes from the portion of the website that lists a brief summary of Dr Harley's concepts.

Give your spouse your undivided attention
a minimum of fifteen hours each week,
using the time to meet the emotional needs
of affection, conversation, recreational
companionship and sexual fulfillment

This sounds nice, but can be used as a weapon in unhealthy relationships. While mom was tending to many small children all day and Dad working nights, he *had* to cheat. Imagine a BPD finding you lacking in this area.

When you meet each other's most important emotional needs, you become each other's source of greatest happiness. But if you are not careful, you can also become each other's source of greatest unhappiness.

Your BPD dysregulates, this will be your fault.

Policy of Radical Honesty:
Reveal to your spouse as much information
about yourself as you know; your thoughts,
feelings, habits, likes, dislikes, personal history,
daily activities, and plans for the future

So, basically enmeshment.   This encourages poor boundaries and lack of your own identity in my opinion.

Much of their forum is based on how to manipulate your unfaithful spouse into coming back by exposing their affair to their employer, friends, and family and on social media. Check out their surviving an affair forum and Exposure 101 sticky.

I apologize for the long winded post and again admit that I haven't read the book. I would proceed with caution, especially with a BPD spouse. You don't want to give her a weapon to use against you. You want to build relationship in a way that works for you both. Cloud and Townsend books are also fantastic for healthy relationship building.

[Notwendy]

The idea that I would meet all my spouse's needs and he would meet mine gives me the chills. I think it can be a recipe for poor boundaries. Also, if someone has extreme emotional needs- a mental illness- meeting them might be an impossible task. I may be an outlier here, but I don't believe that the purpose of marriage is to meet all of each other's needs, especially if the boundary between someone's wants and needs is blurry. Or if their expectations are impossible for anyone to meet.

I think that is a huge burden to place on anyone. I also think the idea that a spouse can prevent their spouse from cheating is placing the blame on the spouse. However, the decision to cheat is up to the person who cheats. He/she is responsible for that. (However, of the couples I know who were able to repair their relationship after infidelity, both looked at their contribution to the issues in the marriage)

Yet marriage also involves some agreements/boundaries and violating these agreements can put the marriage in peril. Nobody is available 24/7 for all sexual desires, but denying sex altogether or most of the time is not fair to the other person. Spending intimate time together as a couple is essential. While having other friends and hobbies can be a good thing, one has to be careful to keep the bond between spouses a priority.

ForByFaith, I think the issue with the son is a situation that you will need to come to terms with. You want it to change, but it may not be something your wife wants to change. Accepting her may also include accepting that this is the way things are. I agree with FF that outside professional guidance may help, but ultimately- for a person to change, he/she has to want to change.

A mother-child bond is strong. Although it is expected that a grown child will separate from a parent, if that child has serious mental/intellectual delays, that separation may not occur. It is actually the child who initiates this. By the teen years -the child naturally begins to separate from the parent- becoming more interested in peers and then a romantic relationship. For the parent, it can be painful "my child doesn't need me anymore". An emotionally healthy parent can step back and let the child take the natural course of becoming an adult. ( this may be harder for a parent with BPD). But if the child is very delayed or mentally ill, this step may not ever happen. He/she can continue to be mainly bonded to the parent- unless that parent takes steps to socialize the child in some sort of group home/day program and the child is actually capable of participating.

Your wife and her son are in this relationship for 30+ years. IMHO, unless she is motivated to change this, it may be that the two of them are a package deal for you. You love her, she loves her son. Since you have not had the experience of raising a special needs child, perhaps getting help- to understand him and his issues may help you work with the circumstances as they are?

[formflier]

Will try to tie up several ideas in this one post...

Boundaries books:  Here is my interpretation.  By establishing boundaries you also establish responsibility.  Since each party is responsible for their own emotions and actions, by definition the spouse is not "needed" or "required" to meet someones "needs".

Now comes the tie in with Christianity.  (Townsend and Cloud write from Christian perspective).  They would argue that this sets up marriage to follow the model of Jesus.  That Jesus doesn't shame or "require" people to come to him and love him.  They have a choice... .free will.  Just like our spouses.  We meet our own needs and when our spouse "comes over" into our "property" to help with our emotions, it should be special to us because they are doing it of their own free will (because they love us) and not because "they have to".

Last caution:  The boundaries books are written for "most couples" and are not written for high conflict couples or people with PDs.  I could see someone with a PD going "I'm going to "boundary" someone as a form of punishment. 

Basically, very useful book, when kept in the proper perspective.  I don't know much about the other book being discussed... .so... .no comments there.

Byfaith,

I think some things are going in the right direction in your relationship.  Your job (IMO) is to keep momentum going.  Build good will.  Can you put aside the son issue for a couple of weeks.  Not saying be a doormat, but try not to focus on it.

I would focus on you and your wife being a couple and having your time.  If the son barges in, express that your desire is for "marriage time" but that you will respect choice she makes.  Exit if she won't shoo him away.

Invite her to your room as well.  I would lock door and be much "stronger" about boundaries down there.

Hopefully after a few weeks to generally improving trends (yes there will be setbacks) you can set up some sort of conference or meeting with the step sons T... .or have your marriage T and stepson T talk and get a "professional recommendation" on what is "best for the son". 

Have that recommendation specifically address boundaries and respect for the space of others.

Likely it won't be as strong as you want it.  Likely it will be way stronger than your wife wants it.

Then after she digests it for a week or so.  In the context of a MC session.  You need to ask for a clear answer from her on if she will follow that... or not.


Respect her choice.

Respect your own choice.

Generally "demands" are not good in a r/s.  I would not feel comfortable "demanding" she follow everything "exactly".  I would feel comfortable with you "demanding" a clear answer from her.

I would NOT attempt that conversation outside of MC.

FF

[empath]

In the early years of our marriage (maybe even premarital), we read His Needs Her Needs. There is a strong undercurrent of control and manipulation in Harley's idea, and now I can see a lot of very unhealthy views about marriage. Also, sexuality is not listed as a 'need' for women. One of the things that made me think outside the box was the fact that my husband seems to have a black hole of need for love; it doesn't matter how much I do everything that he wants, it's not enough for him to feel love. It doesn't matter how much I listen and reflect, he doesn't feel listened to. Doing more wasn't getting us anywhere. That also sets some people up for guilt because they aren't doing enough.

[Cat Familiar]

Yep. If they don't "receive" it, no matter how hard we try to "give"--it's never going to be enough, and even worse, it won't even be understood or acknowledged.

In the midst of the arguments I used to participate in before I realized how completely useless they were, the number of times I heard, "You never... ." or "You always... ." It shocked me because I realized that no matter how much I tried, at that very moment, all my effort was in vain, due to the black and white thinking.

I don't know if my efforts were appreciated later, outside of the argument, but at this point, I don't spend a whole lot of time wondering what he's thinking and trying to discern if I'm appreciated or if he understands that I care about him. When he's in one of those needy places, it is indeed like trying to fill a black hole.

[Notwendy]

Those "you never" statements drove me crazy. I could do all I could to meet his needs, and the one time I would not do it - you name it - not want to have sex, not cook dinner, not whatever could lead to a

"You never"

I really wanted to be a good wife, and when I heard these complaints, I took them to heart. It was really hurtful. My first response was to do even more of what he was complaining about, to prove that it wasn't "never" . Talk about positive reinforcement.

But eventually that didn't work as I lost interest. It's hard to have an interest in things when you know that they are to be followed by a "you never". Fortunately, in MC, my H got that part when he was able to hear me say what is the point of doing what you aren't going to remember anyway. That cut down on the "you nevers".

Sometimes, these behaviors continue because they work- they get a response from us to try harder to please. I'm not suggesting we don't do caring things,-we should- but to be careful our behavior isn't enabling theirs.

[byfaith]

Thank you for everyone's ideas and responses. I am going to go back and read over them again and attempt to respond.

My optimistic side wants to say that the situation is getting better. My gut (and reality) is telling me otherwise. I look at some of the positive aspects and I want to hold on to those and see a ray of hope.

be back later

thanks
BF

[byfaith]

quote from Formflier
I think some things are going in the right direction in your relationship.  Your job (IMO) is to keep momentum going.  Build good will.  Can you put aside the son issue for a couple of weeks.  Not saying be a doormat, but try not to focus on it.
I would focus on you and your wife being a couple and having your time.  If the son barges in, express that your desire is for "marriage time" but that you will respect choice she makes.  Exit if she won't shoo him away.

I have been trying to build goodwill. It has been successful to a degree. I was told saturday that "my efforts" have not gone unnoticed. She told me I have not been a source of stress for her lately. I listened. I made direct eye contact, I didn't make any type of body language movements that would show irritation. This was the message... .you have not been a source of stress for me, so keep up the efforts. Then she said this about herself... .I know I am not doing the things I need to be doing but I don't need you to voice your disapproval, I am trying to do better.

[byfaith]

as far as the book "his needs, her needs" I think I am going to intercept that book when it comes UPS and not have us read that. I agree with the basic idea of crossing over and doing things for our spouse to build love. Each spouse has different needs that need to be met within the marriage. I see though where the author of that book takes it to another level that could cause some major issues.

The book that I am reading now, "the 5 love languages" I believe covers enough to help a marriage in the regards of building love in a marriage.

It bums be out that my wife has not cracked the book open. I went and bought the book a week ago one for her and one for me. It's more important for her to be on Facebook and playing a game on the internet.

I am going to bring it up in MC on Thursday

 

[formflier]

 
So, I think it is ok for you to "lead" by gently encouraging her  to read the book.  

I think it would be ok to ask her a couple broad questions about the book.

If you are positive she hasn't done anything... .then perhaps ask her out of a "date" to go read some.  Get out of the house, go to a place where you can sit and linger for a while while enjoying hot coffee and appetizers.

If she declines to go... .make sure that you go do it.  In other words... .yes it is a "ploy" on your part but you want it to come across and showing your dedication to the effort, to you living and enjoying life, and that you are going to invite her along... .but ultimately will be doing it with or without her.

Focus more on what you do... .focus less on what she does.  I'm not sure if I would bring it up in MC or not.  If you want to bring it up in MC... .make sure you have clearly addressed it beforehand.

FF

[byfaith]

So, I think it is ok for you to "lead" by gently encouraging her  to read the book. 

I understand what you are saying. I will need to pull everything I have from inside of me to do this. I am just getting to the place in my mind with all of this that if she wants to save the marriage, also, she will do something as simple as read a book.

Over the past almost 4 years I have read and read and read and tried to apply what I have learned ( in the process I have learned a lot about myself) some good some bad.

It is soo hard to encourage someone who sits in the house all day. I come home and she is in pajama bottoms 90% of the time. She has had a hairline fracture in her foot for the past 2 years, she won't heal it, therefore it is an excuse not to do this or that. She has health problems she will not address. She has pre-cancerous patches on her skin that she has blown off the last 2 appointments to get removed. She blew the second one off yesterday, she slept through it because she was up all night. The doctor told her she is developing liver problems, she has sleep issues, depression issues, she is on 2 anti depressant meds and an anti anxiety med. When she messes around and doesn't get that filled at the end of the month her world comes crashing down.

We had an opportunity to go do something together to get out of the house this past Sunday and she would not go. I didn't get mad. I sat and talked with her.   

That is part of the tip of the iceberg, thanks for letting me vent. I am tired. It's affecting me physically. I know, self care. I do that. It feels like it is slipping away.

Ok all that being said, I will softly encouarge her to read the book.

[Wrongturn1]

I am just getting to the place in my mind with all of this that if she wants to save the marriage, also, she will do something as simple as read a book.

This reminds me of my experience with the love languages book.  My wife and I agreed to read the book in hopes that it would help our marriage.  I read the whole book in about a week and found a lot of content that would be very helpful for two mentally and emotionally healthy people in a relationship.  My wife read about a page and a half and then never picked it up again. 

The thing about the love languages book (or other similar books) is that these books don't cure BPD.  As long as the BPD condition exists, the relationship will be largely dysfunctional.  Books might be able to help the non in the relationship make some changes that cause incremental improvements in the relationship, but the BPD will still suffer from BPD and bring all the problems that come with that to the relationship. 

[byfaith]

Do you agree that these issues need to be brought up in MC? These are all choices she is making which is having severe negative impact on our marriage.

How do you discuss these things without sounding like its blaming?

These are all valid issues IMO.

Like you say quite often FF, it comes down to choices, she is making her choices but her choices are poor ones that are self destructive and destructive to our marriage.

[formflier]

We had an opportunity to go do something together to get out of the house this past Sunday and she would not go. I didn't get mad. I sat and talked with her.   

 

Hmmm... .interesting.


Why not go to the opportunity without her?  From a certain point of view "her tactic" worked for her.  You stayed and filled a need (or want) that she had, and she didn't have to do anything to get that, other than refuse to participate in the outing.

Not enough info (nor would it be right for me to say this decision was right or wrong on your part), but I would want you to think deeply about how YOU made the decision to not go. 

Dude... I can tell you are tired and towards the end of your rope... .     

I'm going to shift my stance a bit on the bringing it up in MC.  I think you should bring it up, but in more of a broad sense. 

1.  I still think you need to directly invite her to go out with you and enjoy being together and to read and linger somewhere... .just to be together.  Do this  before MC.  Critical that you go, regardless of what she does.  In fact, bring her a cup of coffee home... .or some other thing from the place that you enjoyed.  You are making a clear effort to invite her into your world and to show her that she is important to you.


2.  I would not focus on the book in MC.  I would focus on a broader issues of "doing" the relationship.  Going on dates, enjoying each other's company.  Be clear that it is a priority for you and that you want her to come along.  No blame for her not coming... .this is about you, your feelings and your desires for the r/s.

3.  Be open and inviting to listen to her priorities.  Where is this (dating) on your priority list.  No judgment from you, you just want information and an answer to the question, will you go out and enjoy time with me reading and discussing the book.

I think a T can take that and spin it positive much better than.

"after all this time, abuse and crap I've put up with... .you would think she could at least read the book I got her or get out of her PJs. "  (did I get your sentiment pretty close?)  Note... .I agree with your sentiment.  I'm also pretty sure it's not going to help your case any to express it... .


Do you think you can pull this off?  Something along the lines of how I think you should bring it up in MC?

FF

[Wrongturn1]

Do you agree that these issues need to be brought up in MC? These are all choices she is making which is having severe negative impact on our marriage.

Good question.  If reading the books was MC homework, then yes, definitely.  Otherwise, I guess it depends on what you want out of marriage counseling and what you hope to achieve with the love languages book. 

My uBPDw has never agreed to attend marriage counseling (which I have suggested multiple times before, along with personal counseling for her, but she'll never do either according to her), so I really don't have any experience in this area.  From the anecdotes I've read around here, it seems like MC is unproductive for the majority of couples where one spouse is BPD.  For a minority of couples (e.g., FF and his wife), it seems to help.

[formflier]

  For a minority of couples (e.g., FF and his wife), it seems to help.

Yep... .but also important to set expectations and not have the attitude that MC was "what did it".  The real goal is to be able to communicate effectively... .and avoid communication that is full of blame.

I'm glad I've done as much MC as I have... .I think it is a net positive.  There was a lot of unpleasant unproductive stuff that went on in MC.  Some of this was due to untrained counselor, some of it was a counselor needing to learn each person and their tendencies.

MC with a pwBPD involved is not something for a "fleet average" counselor to try and take on. 

As a general statement I recommend that people try, but remember that boundaries are still in place about verbal and emotional abuse.  Let MC take lead on enforcing those, but don't be shy about asking MC if the conversation is "productive" or "helpful"... .try to get MC to help steer towards "solutions"

FF

[byfaith]

Hi Wrongturn1,

Just asking, are you in a place where you are satisfied with your decision to stay with your wife?

What I am in the process of doing is trying to decide if I should stay?

I am for sure trying.

Deep down in my soul I know I will live a miserable life if I stay (with things remaining a constant as they are now).

I know I can't have everything I want... .but I do have needs. There are needs that are not getting met (not just sex) although that is one of the needs.

I am tired of feeling empty from what a marriage relationship should offer


FF,
Yes I will try to pull that off and let you know how it went