I can't do it.

[PFCI]

So, it was a 3 day weekend for most people in Japan.  Many people are happy about this, but not me.

3 days with my uBPDw istead of 2?  Not good... .

And it wasn't.  Physical violence, which I basically told her I won't tolerate anymore, being locked out of the house twice, once at 4am (although I made sure I took a key with me), pick pick picking at me all 3 days, apart from a couple of hours when she acted like a normal human. 

Showing empathy, validating, and being nice to someone who has basically abused me almost daily for 11 years, and continues to do so, I just can't do it.  I was so exhausted at the end of three days, I basically stopped speaking to her Monday evening.  I tried, but I just don't think I can do it.  Couldn't do any work at the office this morning, because I'm winding down from a super stressful weekend.

I don't want to be her friend.  I don't want to be with her.  I just want to make living in the same house as her as bearable as possible until the kids grow up and I can get out.  How can I do that?

I seriously hate this woman. 

[Turkish]

I know you've educated us about custody issues in Japan.  Do you have any options for support there as a male? 

[PFCI]

One of the most interesting points was when I finally got back in the house, she went into 3 hour lecture mode about why I am such a terrible person, and all the things she'd done for me since we'd met (cos it's a debt to her that can never be re-payed... .).  As usual, I was hoping it would end soon (recently, I've just been walking away to avoid lecture time, but given the level of escalation at that point I figured it was better to let her get everything off her chest), when she said ":)o you think I don't care about you?".  I really didn't know what to say.  Because I honestly can't tell.  Some times she acts like she does, some times she acts like she doesn't.  So I paused, went "ummmmm... ." at which point she stormed off.  Which meant I could go to sleep, which was a result.  

But, I wonder, does she really believe she cares for me? Or does she think that I should think that?  Seemed odd to me?

[PFCI]

I know you've educated us about custody issues in Japan.  Do you have any options for support there as a male? 

Support as in therapy?  Not really.  Japanese aren't big on that.  But I should start to explore the options.  I'm thinking about seeing a lawyer to check out my options.  I've read a lot about divorce online, but a professional opinion would be best.

I'm honestly wondering what's best for my kids.  If I stay, if I go, or of I could get partial custody or visitation.  I can't believe leaving them alone with that woman and not seeing them any more would be better than being there and trying to absorb some of the flack for them, and protect them as best I can.

[Turkish]

Support as in for DV.

You went back and you talked.  She's justifying her behavior,  and also sending confusing signals.  Have you tried the communication tools in lesson 3 on the Improving Board? 

[PFCI]

Support as in for DV.

You went back and you talked.  She's justifying her behavior,  and also sending confusing signals.  Have you tried the communication tools in lesson 3 on the Improving Board? 

I'll take a look. 

The DV is unacceptable, but mainly from a respect perspective.  If push comes to shove (no pun intended), she's 163cm and about 50kg.  I'm 180cm and over 70kg. If I need to physically stop her, I can and will.  But obviously, I don't want to do that.  It also leaves me open to accusations of DV myself, which as a larger, stronger, non-Japanese spouse of a Japanese woman I'm very wary of.  Also, once I went to leave, and she physically blocked me, and called that cops, threatening to report me for DV.  SO I need to be careful.

Honestly, the situation is so messed up.  I wanna stay for my kids, but I'm wondering how much more I can take... .

[ohmygod]

There is nothing wrong feeling you can't be nice to an abuser. That is a normal natural reaction and your brain is just doing its job -trying to protect you.

[formflier]

As usual, I was hoping it would end soon (recently, I've just been walking away to avoid lecture time, but given the level of escalation at that point I figured it was better to let her get everything off her chest), when she said ":)o you think I don't care about you?". 

OK... .take a deep breath.  She escalated and got her way.  It worked for her.  Your job is to do what works for you and not do what doesn't work.  Unapologetically.

So... .this is a boundary issue for you (I am not saying it is your fault... .but it is your responsibility).

She is NOT going to all of a sudden be reasonable and "see it her way".

From practical experience I can tell you that exiting is usually better.  As long as my wife can see me, it seems to keep the fire burning, but if I leave her alone, it seems to burn out.

Once I tried staying in room but putting on headphones to block the noise.  Trust me... .that is NOT a good idea.

Listen... .you can do this.  The skills are hard and they will feel weird because you are not used to having boundaries.

"Should you do this... .?" is a totally different thread. 

You need to get professional advice about your legal options  In the meantime, enforce boundaries and be deliberate about being a good relationship partner to her.

You are biding your time while you gain wisdom.

Hang in there.

FF

[HopefulDad]

I'm thinking about seeing a lawyer to check out my options.  I've read a lot about divorce online, but a professional opinion would be best.

Yes!  Even it simply confirms what you've read online, it's still best to do this.  I hope you have options where you can divorce and still remain part of your children's lives.

On a different note, I met an old friend for lunch today after not seeing each other for years.  He knew my ex so he was blindsided by the divorce news.  We started talking about BPD and he said he could relate as he had dated a Japanese flight attendant who he strongly suspected suffered this.

Your wife isn't a former flight attendant, is she? 

[PFCI]

Yes!  Even it simply confirms what you've read online, it's still best to do this.  I hope you have options where you can divorce and still remain part of your children's lives.

Your wife isn't a former flight attendant, is she? 

I doubt it, but it's worth checking out. 

I think it's extinction bursts, because she's clearly not happy with my new attitude towards her, and not getting the reactions she wants.  She's tried the old favorites, now she's trying to work some new angles, and some very old ones.   It's probably very frustrating for her.

 But the raging everyday, it's hard on me and our oldest son, who is her secondary target. He even turned to me last night and said "I don't like Mummy", because he can see that her treatment of him is unfair. 

It's so bad, I'm thinking should I leave anyway.  Anybody else been through this stage?   Does it ease off? 

I guess seeing a lawyer and finding out the lay of the land would make the prospect of leaving more real, if nothing else.

Another rage last night, and I left the house before she woke up.  No contact all day.  I have the urge to message her, but probably I shouldn't?  I didn't actually do anything wrong last night, so I've nothin to apologise for.  But  I still have the urge to sort things out, even though they are her things, not mine.

And no, she was never a flight attendant.   

[Turkish]

The other angle is kids.  On the one hand,  children seeing one parent raging at the other (or even more subtle emotional abuse such as tone,  and words... .my ex is more like this) is damaging.  A child being the target of verbal and emotional abuse speaks for itself.  What did you say when your son said that?  Validation works with anyone,  not just pwBPD. It can start with a simple non judgemental question. With Reflective Listening,  you repeat the words back,  validating and the good kind of mirroring.  "I hear that you say you don't like mommy.  Why not?"
Adjust age appropriately.  My S6 says that he loves me more.  I ask why.  I've never gotten a strait answer.  Both kids S6 and D4 are bothered that their aunt and their grandma spank, hit and smack their 2 year old cousin.  Not judging , I asked them how they felt seeing that.  "Sad." I responded, "I'd feel sad,  too." Validating their feelings seemed to soothe them. 

Given the level of conflict,  you might get something more clear.  It's a fine line between validating their feelings and telling them what to think,  even if it's unintentional.  There are great resources on the co-parenting board which can help.

Let us know what legal advice you can get there,  also concerning child abuse.  I only know about the culture from what little I've read,  about public face  and private face  (I think there is a term for it,  but I forget). We'll support you as we can,  even as outsiders.

[Woods77]

It's time you got out of this before it destroys you further. You can't do anymore.

A relationship is suppose to be an enhancement of your life.

It's a mutual enjoyment.

You aren't meant to hate your partner or get any kind of abuse. Yes she is ill but she will never ever get better without any specialist DBT therapy. It's IMPOSSIBLE.

A truth you won't want to hear but you are making it 100% worse for your children by staying. They are growing up in a dysfunctional relationship and are heading for problems in their future because this is affecting them. Staying for them? You need to leave for them and leave for yourself. Sorry but I'm sure you've done everything you could but It sounds awful. Even in a normal relationship when you start dreading the weekend means it's over.

Why do you think it's better to stay? Having two parents where they are arguing and one is abusing the other is not healthy for kids, it's the opposite. You need to leave for them. They'd be happier surely without all this stress.

I have seen first hand what happens when you stay for the kids. It can end up with kids self harming unfortunetely.

Your future right now could end up with her 1. Killing you. 2. Meeting other men. 3. Financial ruin. Horrible but how else is this going to end logically? It's awful situation and we have all seen things we can't believe happened to us. In the end if you can get out you can start to feel better.

You could have sole custody of the kids, tell your lawyer she's physically and mentally attacked you. That's the truth. You could also look at co-dependency online as you may be co-dependent and that's why you've stayed so long.

Finally don't be so harsh on yourself as we are all in or have been in similar boat. I never thought I'd be in some of the worst situations in my life because of my partner. I stayed far too long and I've lost a sense of self, reason and in the end a lot of money.

Extreme times call for extreme measures. Do your best to get out of it. You could even install a camera to record incase of abuse, but if you can leave now.

good luck and take care of yourself

[PFCI]

A truth you won't want to hear but you are making it 100% worse for your children by staying. They are growing up in a dysfunctional relationship and are heading for problems in their future because this is affecting them. Staying for them? You need to leave for them and leave for yourself. Sorry but I'm sure you've done everything you could but It sounds awful. Even in a normal relationship when you start dreading the weekend means it's over.

Why do you think it's better to stay? Having two parents where they are arguing and one is abusing the other is not healthy for kids, it's the opposite. You need to leave for them. They'd be happier surely without all this stress.

I have seen first hand what happens when you stay for the kids. It can end up with kids self harming unfortunately.

You could have sole custody of the kids, tell your lawyer she's physically and mentally attacked you. That's the truth. You could also look at co-dependency online as you may be co-dependent and that's why you've stayed so long.

I understand what you are saying, but in Japan, the chance of a western man getting custody of Japanese kids from a Japanese Mum is literally zero.   It just won't happen.  Chances of my wife allowing me to see the kids again if I leave, almost zero.  Chances of the older child, S9, who's already been painted black by BPDw not getting the abuse instead of me?  Zero.  I can take a few more years.  S9 can't.  If I honestly thought that me leaving would improve things for the kids, I would. But it wouldn't. 

I am co-dependent, but I'm working on that. 

[formflier]

You aren't meant to hate your partner or get any kind of abuse. Yes she is ill but she will never ever get better without any specialist DBT therapy. It's IMPOSSIBLE.

A truth you won't want to hear but you are making it 100% worse for your children by staying. 

This is pretty strong opinion.

While not common, it is possible for those with BPD to "mature" in a safe relationship structure.

Children seeing boundaries at work is a life lesson that can be valuable.

FF

[KateCat]

in Japan, the chance of a western man getting custody of Japanese kids from a Japanese Mum is literally zero.   It just won't happen.  Chances of my wife allowing me to see the kids again if I leave, almost zero.

I believe this and am sorry you have the Gaijin Blues. The things you write of will probably not be changing quickly enough to be of help to you and your children, but some legal consultations can assure that you understand your options fully.

If I may be so bold (I am not a parent), I think you are one husband and father for whom this particular forum is the perfect dojo. If you were in the United States, things would be different. But you are where you are. The teachings here are powerful and transformative. Sometimes counterintuitive, often frustrating. But ultimately powerful.

I hope you can settle in for the long haul and read the forums here on parenting as well. It will be slow going, but it sounds as though you are already on your way and have a fundamental understanding of the need for this work.

The fathers who participate here are an extraordinary group of men, in my opinion. 

[PFCI]

Certainly the advice on here is useful.

To be honest, the plan of staying until my kids are in highschool is looking less and less likely to happen.  I'm really not sure I can take 9 or 10 years of this. 

Honestly, posting on here really helps.  Things in my life seem kinda normal.   But then I post about them on here, read it back, and... .no, it's not even vaguely normal.  It's completely bad and wrong.

So, my new goal is junior high school, or basically 5 years (5 and a half).  Kids will probably be physically as big as or bigger than my wife by then, and have more independence.  I can provide them with a safe place if they decide to leave the house, either for a short time, or permanently.  Also, they can see me if they want, as they will have some independence. 

Less than 6 years.  I can do that.

[Turkish]

PFCI,

While you continue to pursue your legal options,  can you commit to mastering the communication tools in order to do whatever you can on your side to reduce conflict? Also,  to look at the resources on the Co-Parenting board to help you and your son? 

T

[PFCI]

PFCI,

While you continue to pursue your legal options,  can you commit to mastering the communication tools in order to do whatever you can on your side to reduce conflict? Also,  to look at the resources on the Co-Parenting board to help you and your son? 

T

I'm already trying the various communication tools, as well as boundaries.  My wife seems rather confused by the change.  Also, seems she's trying some new things.  She's stated to ignore my text messages to make me stressed about what kind of situation I'll find when I arrive home.   I think an initial increase in conflict is normal when trying new things and setting boundaries with a BPD individual?

I'll certainly check out the co-parenting board.  It's certainly something I need help with.

[formflier]

 My wife seems rather confused by the change.  

Please take this as validation that you are behaving differently and that your wife is basically saying "Whoa... .who is this new guy... .?"

Understand that to her, dysfunctional is "normal and safe"... .perhaps "comfortable" is a better word.  Expect her to resist changes.

As long as you have thought through your actions and words and they are healthy... .or healthier than they used to.  Be steadfast... .let your wife sort out the "new you".

Can you tell us more about text messages and how they relate to anxiety/stress?

FF

[PFCI]

Can you tell us more about text messages and how they relate to anxiety/stress?

FF

She isn't answering my texts anymore.  Hasn't for a few days.

It makes me really stressed, as I have no indication of what kind of mood she's in, and so what kind of situation I'm walking into when I go home.  Probably she doesn't know that (but maybe she does), but this is definitely a new behavior. 

[formflier]

 
OK... the stress thing is yours to work on. 

Mindset:  Walk in door with open mind and two plans. 

Plan 1:  I "take the temp" and if bad... .I go to store.

Plan 2:  Temp is good... .I do healthy relationship stuff, but don't go over the top.


FF

[PFCI]

OK... the stress thing is yours to work on. 

Mindset:  Walk in door with open mind and two plans. 

Plan 1:  I "take the temp" and if bad... .I go to store.

Plan 2:  Temp is good... .I do healthy relationship stuff, but don't go over the top.


FF

To be honest, we both work full time, and with 2 Elementary school kids, evenings are busy.  Just walking out isn't really an option.

However, I know the problem is mine.  I shouldn't care about her mood, it's her problem, not mine.  If it's OK, great, if not, I stick to my boundaries and get ___ done as needed, whilst generally keeping out of the way as much as possible, and trying to include some activities I like for my own sake. 

I shouldn't be scared to go home, but it's me who is making me scared. 

[ArleighBurke]

I completely get wanting to know her state before walking through that door. But that is an indication that YOU are enmeshed and allow her to control the home.

She is the hurricane. And when you get swept up in her path you are just like a little wooden house. She can't trust you or lean on you. Instead, you want to be the rock. Allow her to whirl around you, but you are strong and steady. THEN she can trust you - she knows that you are there.

When you walk through the door, you want to be providing STRENGTH and STABILITY for her - no matter what mood she's in. Avoiding her is sending her the message that either you cannot handle her, or she is broken/undesired. Instead, be with her. She will feel your emotional strength. Listen to her vent. Listen with validation so she feels heard - but don't get swept up in it. Be level headed, help her where you can (as part of validation - using SET - I hear you've had <problem X>. <Empathise>. How about we <solution>). Show her you are SOLID. Show her she can rely on you to withstand her storm. Show her you are SAFE.

This involves being EMOTIONALLY DETACHED. This involves listening with VALIDATION. And it involves SELF-CONFIDENCE.

And whether you end up staying with her or not, THIS is the type of man you want to be for any woman.

[formflier]

  Just walking out isn't really an option.

 

Walking out is ALWAYS an option.  Let the kids get zeros on homework.  Let dinner go cold.  Perhaps there will be no baths.  Sure... .you will be threatened that she will send a note to school saying the kids stink or have no clothes to wear because you walked out of house.  (I have heard variations on that threat often)

Walk out!  Let her send the note... .do not engage in such things.  Do not protect her from being her.

Ultimately... .you are making a statement with your actions about YOUR value to you... .or perhaps the relative value of you to your kids and wife. 

When I started asserting my value here are some things I did/was faced with:  Pull over to side of road turn off car and walk away from van full of wife and kids.  Wife left in van ranting.  Very dysfunctional, but I "modeled" for my kids that you DO NOT stay put and listen to blather like that.  That happened a few times and guess what, the problem (that specific behavior) is almost nonexistent today. 

The last in car episode was several months back, very low grade compared to above.  I gave her clear choice to continue the date night and talk about other things or go home.  She pressed for a blaming conversation and I took her home.  She huffed a bit on the way out of the car.  I drove back to restaurant and enjoyed a meal by myself.

She claims I have made scenes in restaurants by walking out.  Rarely does she "go there" when we are out to dinner.

The key is to be consistent

I would much rather you make the decision to "suffer through" another month of bad evenings without speaking up for yourself and leaving, vice sticking up for yourself for a couple nights and then caving in on a few other nights.

Critical you read and understand the lesson below.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=85479.0


Another way of looking at it. 

I can't promise you that if you have good boundaries you wife will "get better" (although this is likely), I can promise you that if you "intermittently reinforce" dysfunctional behavior there is almost no chance she will improve.

Take time and think about this... .

FF