Sis relationship and visiting

[Depression = 72% of members]

Forewarning: this is going to be loong.

Some (actually a lot of) background: Sis was the family scapegoat, abused by both parents more than myself or our other two sisters. My mother would pit us against each other, and later ask why I was so mean to her. She was molested as a child by a family friend, and I have heard from extended family that she has said our cousin did also (~30yo at the time) who lived with us through my and Sis' teenagehood and was her best friend the whole time.

When my big drama with my mother was occurring, she took Mom's side against me, talked about how horrible a person my husband was, and that I truly must be brainwashed and weak of character. For a little, Sis was my go-between with the family - when I gave her my Christmas gifts for the whole family, she said, "Let's say they're from both of us." I objected because in an effort to prove my love to the family I had put a ton of effort and time and love into these gifts, and she took offense. Since she's the one who gave them to the rest of the family, I have no clue what she told them.

My entire family moved out of state shortly after I married, Sis with them. A year later, she invited me to her high school graduation. I politely declined and wished her all the best, because (in conjunction with my T) I decided that I was too unstable for a confrontation with my entire family, which is exactly what that would've led to. She then sent me a horrible little email that sounded exactly like how my mother would've spoken - filled with condescension, judgement, guilt trips, and not-so-subtle insults. I responded to her as if my mother was writing the email for her (which would've been just like her, but it wasn't smart on my part), which just devolved the whole situation. She didn't speak to me for years, including when I invited her and my other sisters and family to my sealing to my husband.

I reached out to Sis on her birthday a few years back, reminiscing about our childhood together. This reinstated some sort of relationship between us (at which point, I was part of the church and I'm fairly certain she was not, but we didn't discuss it because I didn't wish to be judgy). We discussed her coming to visit shortly after reestablishing contact. We had a date set, things fell through on her end and it didn't happen. Six months later she told me she was coming in a week... .when my husband and I would be on a backpacking trip we'd been planning for over a year. I told her I wouldn't be able to see her when she came because of that. She did not speak to me for another year.

I had a single opportunity to speak to all three of my sisters around the 2014 holiday season. They put on speakerphone with the three of them, but every time I asked one of my younger two sisters a question, Sis would answer for them, I scarcely even got to hear their voices.

When I sent my NC letter (which I cc'd my sisters on, in the hopes of preventing my words getting too twisted), Sis called me and said my letters were all lies and nonsense, that Mom is a great person, and that my personality truly has changed. I asked if that meant she didn't want to talk to me anymore, and she said she still wanted a relationship (why, if I've changed so much?).

Lately, our relationship has been pretty superficial, though she asks about my husband now and says she's fine with him (I'm skeptical). I've been out of the church for a couple years now, but I had avoided telling any of my relations because I knew that it would only cause trouble for me. But just a month or so ago it had finally gotten to the point where it was unavoidable to tell Sis - questions like "So what's your ward now? Do you like your calling? What did you think of General Conference?" I'm not good at lying, so after some dodging the questions, I decided it would be easier to just tell her, after which I asked her not to tell mom or the family. Her response was to get offended that I even made the request, "Of course not! It's not like I talk to Mom that often, and we don't talk about you!" Such vehemence seemed uncalled for, but whatever.

Now, it's been a year and a half since I told my mother (and father) never to contact me again. Yesterday, she called me - the first time since I asked her not to. I did not answer, and I'm proud of myself for finally not answering. But still, just seeing my mother's name come up on my phone was intensely nerve wracking. What bothers me about this is that I strongly suspect that Mom called because Sis told her I'm not part of the church anymore - though I don't have any evidence of this, so perhaps I'm judging her unfairly

Now, to the point: Sis has brought up wanting to visit me again, but after the fiasco last time, I've been dodging the question, saying my schedule is too hectic (it is). She's been getting more insistent, and I'm not quite sure what to do. I have this fantasy in my mind that once we see each other face to face for the first time in 8 years we'll have a wonderful sisterly relationship, and she'll be understanding, but I recognize that this has a very slim chance of ever becoming reality. What makes me so hesitant is, well, all of the above. But acknowledging that I'm not sure I actually want to see her makes me feel like a bad sister.

Tl;dr: My sister closest in age, and the only one speaking to me on a regular basis, wants to come visit me and I don't know how to feel about this.

Any advice? Similar stories?

[Forever to Roam]

Forewarning: this is going to be loong.

Some (actually a lot of) background: Sis was the family scapegoat, abused by both parents more than myself or our other two sisters. My mother would pit us against each other, and later ask why I was so mean to her. She was molested as a child by a family friend, and I have heard from extended family that she has said our cousin did also (~30yo at the time) who lived with us through my and Sis' teenagehood and was her best friend the whole time.

When my big drama with my mother was occurring, she took Mom's side against me, talked about how horrible a person my husband was, and that I truly must be brainwashed and weak of character. For a little, Sis was my go-between with the family - when I gave her my Christmas gifts for the whole family, she said, "Let's say they're from both of us." I objected because in an effort to prove my love to the family I had put a ton of effort and time and love into these gifts, and she took offense. Since she's the one who gave them to the rest of the family, I have no clue what she told them.

My entire family moved out of state shortly after I married, Sis with them. A year later, she invited me to her high school graduation. I politely declined and wished her all the best, because (in conjunction with my T) I decided that I was too unstable for a confrontation with my entire family, which is exactly what that would've led to. She then sent me a horrible little email that sounded exactly like how my mother would've spoken - filled with condescension, judgement, guilt trips, and not-so-subtle insults. I responded to her as if my mother was writing the email for her (which would've been just like her, but it wasn't smart on my part), which just devolved the whole situation. She didn't speak to me for years, including when I invited her and my other sisters and family to my sealing to my husband.

I reached out to Sis on her birthday a few years back, reminiscing about our childhood together. This reinstated some sort of relationship between us (at which point, I was part of the church and I'm fairly certain she was not, but we didn't discuss it because I didn't wish to be judgy). We discussed her coming to visit shortly after reestablishing contact. We had a date set, things fell through on her end and it didn't happen. Six months later she told me she was coming in a week... .when my husband and I would be on a backpacking trip we'd been planning for over a year. I told her I wouldn't be able to see her when she came because of that. She did not speak to me for another year.

I had a single opportunity to speak to all three of my sisters around the 2014 holiday season. They put on speakerphone with the three of them, but every time I asked one of my younger two sisters a question, Sis would answer for them, I scarcely even got to hear their voices.

When I sent my NC letter (which I cc'd my sisters on, in the hopes of preventing my words getting too twisted), Sis called me and said my letters were all lies and nonsense, that Mom is a great person, and that my personality truly has changed. I asked if that meant she didn't want to talk to me anymore, and she said she still wanted a relationship (why, if I've changed so much?).

Lately, our relationship has been pretty superficial, though she asks about my husband now and says she's fine with him (I'm skeptical). I've been out of the church for a couple years now, but I had avoided telling any of my relations because I knew that it would only cause trouble for me. But just a month or so ago it had finally gotten to the point where it was unavoidable to tell Sis - questions like "So what's your ward now? Do you like your calling? What did you think of General Conference?" I'm not good at lying, so after some dodging the questions, I decided it would be easier to just tell her, after which I asked her not to tell mom or the family. Her response was to get offended that I even made the request, "Of course not! It's not like I talk to Mom that often, and we don't talk about you!" Such vehemence seemed uncalled for, but whatever.

Now, it's been a year and a half since I told my mother (and father) never to contact me again. Yesterday, she called me - the first time since I asked her not to. I did not answer, and I'm proud of myself for finally not answering. But still, just seeing my mother's name come up on my phone was intensely nerve wracking. What bothers me about this is that I strongly suspect that Mom called because Sis told her I'm not part of the church anymore - though I don't have any evidence of this, so perhaps I'm judging her unfairly

Now, to the point: Sis has brought up wanting to visit me again, but after the fiasco last time, I've been dodging the question, saying my schedule is too hectic (it is). She's been getting more insistent, and I'm not quite sure what to do. I have this fantasy in my mind that once we see each other face to face for the first time in 8 years we'll have a wonderful sisterly relationship, and she'll be understanding, but I recognize that this has a very slim chance of ever becoming reality. What makes me so hesitant is, well, all of the above. But acknowledging that I'm not sure I actually want to see her makes me feel like a bad sister.

Tl;dr: My sister closest in age, and the only one speaking to me on a regular basis, wants to come visit me and I don't know how to feel about this.

Any advice? Similar stories?

[Forever to Roam]

To clarify a couple points: the NC letter I sent was for my parents and my mother is the one that called yesterday.

[Kwamina]

Hi Forever to Roam or FTR as you're also known here

Forewarning: this is going to be loong.

Don't worry about it, it really wasn't that long at all

Thanks for the background story, it helps to get a clear picture of what you're dealing with. You mention that lately your relationship with your sister has been pretty superficial. You also mention this:

Sis has brought up wanting to visit me again, but after the fiasco last time, I've been dodging the question, saying my schedule is too hectic (it is). She's been getting more insistent, and I'm not quite sure what to do. I have this fantasy in my mind that once we see each other face to face for the first time in 8 years we'll have a wonderful sisterly relationship, and she'll be understanding, but I recognize that this has a very slim chance of ever becoming reality. What makes me so hesitant is, well, all of the above. But acknowledging that I'm not sure I actually want to see her makes me feel like a bad sister.

Considering what you've been through with her, it makes total sense to me that you might feel conflicted about what to do. If you were to decide to have more contact with her, having strong boundaries will be crucial and I would strongly encourage you to take (another) look at the communication techniques described on this site such as S.E.T. and D.E.A.R.M.A.N.:

Express your truth - S.E.T.: Support, Empathy, Truth

Assert yourself - D.E.A.R.M.A.N.: Describe, Express, Assert, Reinforce, Stay Mindful, Appear Confident and Negotiate

These structured ways of communicating can help minimize the likelihood of further conflict, while maximizing the likelihood of getting through to the other person. Have you explored these resources before and if you have, do you find any of the material useful?

Now, it's been a year and a half since I told my mother (and father) never to contact me again. Yesterday, she called me - the first time since I asked her not to. I did not answer, and I'm proud of myself for finally not answering. But still, just seeing my mother's name come up on my phone was intensely nerve wracking. What bothers me about this is that I strongly suspect that Mom called because Sis told her I'm not part of the church anymore - though I don't have any evidence of this, so perhaps I'm judging her unfairly

Since you don't have any evidence your sis told your mom, I think it is probably best not to engage in too much mind-reading. Perhaps your sis did tell your mom, but perhaps she didn't and there can be numerous other reasons why your mom called. To prevent yourself from ruminating about these things and to help you stay in the present, mindfulness/meditation can be helpful. Have you ever practiced this?

The Board Parrot

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi Forever to Roam, 

Your story reminds me of those which so many of us have about our BPD parents, and for you it is a sibling causing current difficulty. They are sad stories in that we always hope for a better relationship, for stability, and for them to finally understand us and that the relationship we always have wished and hoped for would suddenly come true.

I have this fantasy in my mind that once we see each other face to face for the first time in 8 years we'll have a wonderful sisterly relationship, and she'll be understanding, but I recognize that this has a very slim chance of ever becoming reality. What makes me so hesitant is, well, all of the above. But acknowledging that I'm not sure I actually want to see her makes me feel like a bad sister.

I'm sure you may have read this before, but a review doesn't hurt: https://bpdfamily.com/content/emotional-blackmail-fear-obligation-and-guilt-fog

I sure understand the push and pull of doing what you feel is right and feeling guilt because of it. A bothersome set of feelings if I do say so! 

I believe the desire to belong and be a part of a family with strong relationship is part of our being, ingrained in us, and perhaps it is what helps to keep us resilient and strong, hoping for better. Yet the hope we have needs to spring forth within us for ourselves, not for the other person who most likely has BPD. You and I and others here have the hope and desire to become stronger and healthier, to become more whole within ourselves. I can tell that you want this for yourself too, because you've been careful to set boundaries and watch out for yourself. You are doing what is necessary for you. We cannot change who they are, only change ourselves. BPDs have a different way of seeing the world than we do. I really like the Parrot's ideas of setting up strong boundaries for yourself if you decide to try LC.

 
Wools

[Forever to Roam]

Considering what you've been through with her, it makes total sense to me that you might feel conflicted about what to do. If you were to decide to have more contact with her, having strong boundaries will be crucial and I would strongly encourage you to take (another) look at the communication techniques described on this site such as S.E.T. and D.E.A.R.M.A.N.:

Express your truth - S.E.T.: Support, Empathy, Truth

Assert yourself - D.E.A.R.M.A.N.: Describe, Express, Assert, Reinforce, Stay Mindful, Appear Confident and Negotiate

These structured ways of communicating can help minimize the likelihood of further conflict, while maximizing the likelihood of getting through to the other person. Have you explored these resources before and if you have, do you find any of the material useful?

.

I'm sure you may have read this before, but a review doesn't hurt: https://bpdfamily.com/content/emotional-blackmail-fear-obligation-and-guilt-fog

Thank you both for bringing these resources back to my attention - as Wools said, it's always good to review. They are absolutely helpful: I think I've gotten fairly good at SET and the first half of DEARMAN down, and I know I need to work on the Reinforcing, staying Mindful, Appearing confident, and Negotiating.

I'm finding, at least with my sister, I'm finding it hard to separate out where love ends and FOG begins. This will require more thought, and digging to determine what I (realistically) want to do with this relationship.

Since you don't have any evidence your sis told your mom, I think it is probably best not to engage in too much mind-reading. Perhaps your sis did tell your mom, but perhaps she didn't and there can be numerous other reasons why your mom called. To prevent yourself from ruminating about these things and to help you stay in the present, mindfulness/meditation can be helpful. Have you ever practiced this?

You hit the nail on the head with this one, Parrot - trying to mind-read is a huge weakness of mine. Is it just me, or is that it rather like empathy turned on its head? And you are right, there are a million other potential reasons for that call that I am unaware of. And I need to remind myself, there is honestly no need for me to know the reasons; I need to keep my mind on my boundaries and my reasons for them.

I have practiced mindfulness/meditation, though I've gotten out of the habit of meditation because of various life factors. I will start making time for it again, clearly I'm in need of it.

Hi Forever to Roam or FTR as you're also known here

Don't worry about it, it really wasn't that long at all

Thanks for the background story, it helps to get a clear picture of what you're dealing with. You mention that lately your relationship with your sister has been pretty superficial.

Considering what you've been through with her, it makes total sense to me that you might feel conflicted about what to do. If you were to decide to have more contact with her, having strong boundaries will be crucial and I would strongly encourage you to take (another) look at the communication techniques described on this site such as S.E.T. and D.E.A.R.M.A.N.

Your story reminds me of those which so many of us have about our BPD parents, and for you it is a sibling causing current difficulty. They are sad stories in that we always hope for a better relationship, for stability, and for them to finally understand us and that the relationship we always have wished and hoped for would suddenly come true.

I sure understand the push and pull of doing what you feel is right and feeling guilt because of it. A bothersome set of feelings if I do say so! 

I believe the desire to belong and be a part of a family with strong relationship is part of our being, ingrained in us, and perhaps it is what helps to keep us resilient and strong, hoping for better. Yet the hope we have needs to spring forth within us for ourselves, not for the other person who most likely has BPD. You and I and others here have the hope and desire to become stronger and healthier, to become more whole within ourselves. I can tell that you want this for yourself too, because you've been careful to set boundaries and watch out for yourself. You are doing what is necessary for you. We cannot change who they are, only change ourselves. BPDs have a different way of seeing the world than we do. I really like the Parrot's ideas of setting up strong boundaries for yourself if you decide to try LC.

 
Wools

Thanks for the support, advice, and understanding, you two, I really appreciate it.