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How to communicate after a contentious divorce... Following a contentious divorce and custody battle, there are often high emotion and tensions between the parents. Research shows that constant and chronic conflict between the parents negatively impacts the children. The children sense their parents anxiety in their voice, their body language and their parents behavior. Here are some suggestions from Dean Stacer on how to avoid conflict.
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Author Topic: BPD Friend - Do I go No contact or not?  (Read 2075 times)
empty-reflection

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« on: November 14, 2016, 02:55:33 PM »

First off, this is regarding a friend of mine and this board doesn't have a 'friend' section so I chose 'family member' because she felt like a sister to me anyway.  I will say that everything I've read on this site has been super helpful to me and that is why I decided to post my story here.  I will 'try' to be brief.

About 8 months ago I met a woman online and we became very close.  I am a recovering opioid addict and after a 20 year stint on opiate replacement drugs, I kicked everything for good.  I have been 100% sober (8 months) for the first time in my life and it has been a transition of sorts.  I am a member of a website that helps other people wean off and live a sober lifestyle.  This is where we met and I think it is important to explain that is where this all began.

In the beginning, she told me she was someone else (yes, catfished) and I believed her for about a month and brought up my suspicions and she told me her true identity.  I thought it was strange that she did that but I got over it very quickly and honestly didn't care... .as long as she was honest with me in the future.  I am very honest and forgiving and I feel these traits are important when living my newly founded sober lifestyle.  My friend was still in transition and battling on various fronts.

We became very close and would text and email 50+ times a day and everything just became routine.  I didn't realize until later on that I had become co-dependent in this friendship.  I started to notice patterns about her that were different from other people I've known and her life always seemed un-managable (after the mask was shed).  I ended up being there for her.  I was always her sounding board and in return she fulfilled a void that I had... .I still don't know what that void exactly is, but basically she became somewhat of a new addiction to replace my old opiate addiction.  These things I can see in myself now and I'm working on solutions via professional help.  Ok, so there is the background.

As time wore on, I started to notice she was paranoid/delusional and she was always the victim in a lifetime of failed relationships (friends, boyfriends, family).  I remember thinking at the time I realized this that I was 'happy' I was on her good side.  In August, we were having a normal conversation and I said something that she took as a blatant attack (which had nothing to do with her).  She told me we couldn't be friends anymore and didn't want to waste her time with me.  She immediately blocked my number unfriended me on FB.  I took this incredibly hard and suffered terrible anxiety attacks for weeks.  I had only a couple of months of sobriety and I was having issues managing emotions/stress.  I had never experienced anything like this before and I started to question everything.  I felt like I developed a personality disorder because I was such a mess.  How could she just completely cut me off and move on like nothing had ever happened?  Friends can break your heart too it seems.

Three weeks later I decided to email her and say 'goodbye' for my own closure.  I didn't expect her to respond but she did about a week later.  We slowly started talking again and within no time we were right back to where we were before BUT during our 'time apart' I continued to do a lot of research to learn to effectually navigate a friendship with her.  I felt better prepared and I had a better understanding what I was facing. We ended up talking about what happened and she explained to me that she was very sorry and that she pushes the people she cares about away, didn't mean what she said, can't handle rejection, shuts down, etc.  So we ended up maintaining a decent friendship for a while.

About a month ago, during a normal texting convo, she proceeded to accuse me of something that I did in the past but she's forgiven me and it didn't matter anymore... .what?  Nothing she said was true and was completely imagined.  She thought I contacted her family and told them she was suicidal.  First off, we live 5000 miles apart and I have never nor would ever speak to her family members.  She thought I did this because 'she severed ties' before and I was upset.  I promptly defended myself because I am not going to take responsibility for something I didn't do.  Yes, I care about her... .yes, I will entertain her rants and stories... .but when my character is called into question, I react.  I have been nothing but supportive to her and accepting of her disorder.  I was not upset that I was accused BUT I wanted to understand why she thought that.  I also knew that she needed time to cool down because she flipped out saying very hurtful things and telling me to 'leave her alone' (I didn't take these things personally because I knew it was her PD).  I waited 10 days and emailed her a heartfelt letter stating I know she needed to cool down and I accepted/understood her and just wanted to be there for her.  I also made it clear that when the dust settles that it was important to talk about what happened and if she still wanted to leave her alone that she could tell me when she was no longer enraged.  Radio silence.  Still.  It has been over 3 weeks.

The dilemma I'm having is: The silent treatment is driving me crazy.  I feel like I've lost my best friend with absolutely no answers/explanations.  I feel like she just 'moved on' and everything is easier without me... .like I never existed.  I am constantly second guessing myself.  Here's the thing though... .she didn't block/unfriend me from FB which is the only making things worse for me. Why, if she wants me to 'leave her alone' are we still friends on social media?  I am at a crossroad of going completely NC and blocking her entire existence BUT at the same time, I felt like I understood her as much as a friend could.  I wanted to be strong enough to weather the storm 'with' her, as her friend because as she says, 'everyone leaves'.  I cannot tell if she really hates me or is punishing me.  The not knowing is killing me.

My idea is to send her a message on FB and just say, "Hi.  I am still right here." and see if she responds.  I will give her a week and then go no contact if I hear nothing.  I refuse to play further games and maybe this last 'act' will give me some kind of closure.  I also know if we reconnect, this will happen again.

I'm very sorry this is so long but I wanted to give a good background.  Thanks for any opinions you may have.  Great site, btw.
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DazedandConfus3d
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« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2016, 03:27:19 PM »

Firstly- I'm sorry for the heartache and confusion you're going through- I think everyone here has felt very much similar. 

Also, I wish you way more than luck in meeting your goals around substance use- I know how tough that can be, esp when things in the rest of your life start coming apart.

Now here's my opinion, and it's just my opinion- you've gotta do what you feel, but since you asked here it is:

Dude.  Walk away. 

There are people not 5000 miles away who won't lie to you about who they are, who won't make you crazy and who won't ditch you for no reason.  Go meet some of those people. Engage in things in your life that make you happy and feel fulfilled.  Fill your heart with joy, and the pain you feel right now will fade away over time.



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« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2016, 04:36:17 PM »

hi empty-reflection and Welcome

silent treatment is painful, from a family member, romantic partner, friend, no matter. im sorry youre experiencing this.
 
this is a touch decision to make, and there are no right or wrong answers. should you continue the friendship, there are communication tools, lessons involving good boundaries, and explanations for some of the behavior that you are subject to as a friend that will help depersonalize it, on the Improving board. they are no guarantee that the hurtful behavior will ever stop - a person with BPD is hypersensitive to criticism and may perceive it where it wasnt intended - couple that with difficulty regulating emotions and impulsivity, and you may always experience lashing out, or being cut off. it is possible to get to a point where you find the friendship rewarding, and are able to depersonalize, even be unaffected by the hurtful behavior, but this will take work on your end. the question is whether the friendship and all it entails or may entail, is worth that work.
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« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2016, 08:09:49 PM »

Hi empty-reflection,

Welcome

I'd like to join everyone and welcome. I'm sorry that you're going through this. I've seen my ex wife treat her friends this way, I didn't get it then because I didn't know that such a things as PD's existed.

I think that what you're going through, a large portion anyways, is splitting. I don't think that you're completely split black because she didn't block you on social media. I'd suggest learning the tools, especially validation because a pwBPD have low self worth and low self esteem and need a lot of validation, I'd be careful with not triggering shame, and by no means am I suggesting that you're doing but I'm careful with my ex wife because I don't to be completely split, I've been through it too many times Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) That being said.

When you meet someone with BPD for the first time, they have a perfect image of you, that's untainted but slowly your friend us starting to see imperfections on that image.  A pwBPD have a really hard time seeing people as an integrated whole. Good people have bad qualities and bad people have good qualities. Your friend sees people as with all good or all bad, I think that her indifference is because you're split black. It's not personal to you, it helps to people that have or are going through it, you can your feelings about her actions too. I suggest to depersonalize it, it's something that can't be managed eternally, and it's something that she's going through internally.
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empty-reflection

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« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2016, 10:23:03 PM »

Thank you all very much for your comments.  It means a lot and I agree with all of you.  It has been very difficult to deal with because I can't talk about it in real life.  The people aware of my friendship with her would think I'm nutty for even thinking about her - nevermind posting on a support site.  Everyone says, 'good riddance'... .AND my rational mind agrees.  I know that feeling like this is not healthy.  I know this.  

As I've said before, I am newly sober which I think makes everything more challenging for me.  Being on LAO's (long acting opiates) for over 20 years caused me to be 'numb'.  I had zero emotions and not a care in the world... .until I quit.  I was hit with an avalanche of unfamiliar emotions and she was there for all of it.   It created an attachment for me.  She brought out a lot of feelings/emotions within me that I didn't know were there.  I ended up caring for her deeply and I worried about her safety (at the time high risk behavior was involved).   I really didn't understand BPD at the time either but I knew something was 'off'.  I have helped many people taper off the drug in the past year but she was the only one person I truly attached to.  She respected my opinions and advice because I had made it out the other side.  I guess that's where the ' love bombing' started... .and we know where that leads.

I want to detach desperately.  I want to stop thinking about her and questioning my own character.  I want to stop flip flopping, 'do I stay or do I go'.  I want to stop feeling sick to my stomach and faking each day with a smile. I told her I would stand by her even if she was mad at me but if I am painted black... .it only appears pathetic and stalker-y to her now.  The Facebook thing is so hard.  I can't tell if she just doesn't realize we're still FB friends OR she's hoarding followers (musician so she has a ton) and I'm just a body count.  Worst of all, why do I care about someone that is unable to reciprocate in the same way?  

If she would just say, 'I hate you and leave me alone' it would be so much easier to finally block her and let go. So so much easier.  I feel like I'm waiting for a recycle that may never happen and it makes me feel pathetic that I have fallen so low.  I am still grieving so I'm not my positive self right now, sorry.  I wish there was a way to delete her memories like it was to delete her texts.  

I know I have obvious self-esteem issues after this and I am trying to work through them with a therapist for the first time in my life.  I used to be so confident and proud of my accomplishments but now I am an empty-reflection.  Thank you for listening to me vent... .it makes me feel not so alone. I don't know what I'm going to do yet (reach out or NC)... .I know I will try and learn to detach because I have to... .whether I stay or I go.  I just have to.  I will keep reading and learning from all of you that came before me.  I thank you all.  
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« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2016, 06:26:22 AM »

First of all, I want to commend you for your achievement with addiction and your personal insight. I know that you have worked hard on this. Whatever happens, I hope that you stay strong and keep up these amazing steps to your well being.

Now, also forgive yourself. Although you have made great progress, some patterns are just that- patterns and once aware of them, we can work on them. I've done some personal work on co-dependency and learned that relationships can follow an addiction pattern. When we are close and being loved bombed, we experience a lot of "feel good" emotions. Then if the person abruptly paints us black, or gives us the ST, we then can experience a withdrawal. The drama and push pull patterns can mimic an addiction with the ups and downs. An emotionally stable relationship doesn't do this.

The ST can feel unbearable because of this. But you have already proven that you are a strong person and you have the tools to deal with this.  I assume that your sobriety program has included a counselor or sponsor to call to help you as well. It is OK to call them when you are feeling like you do- I would bet they have experience with this. And you can post here.

Breaking a substance addiction is such a great step to take to achieving a more physical and emotionally healthy life. It would make sense that learning to manage relationships is part of this- and your friendship with this woman is a learning experience along the way. It is great that you have stayed strong and not turned back to your old ways to manage your discomfort. You reached out here, and you can reach out to your counselors.  I commend you for that.

 
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empty-reflection

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« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2016, 08:49:06 AM »

Thank you notwendy.  Spot on.  Yes, it does feel like an addiction and I'm well aware that I am detoxing and retoxing.  At least with a substance, I won't receive the ST which makes this worse in a lot of ways.  I feel like I'm 'chasing' someone that doesn't want to be chased and it feels degrading.  I am going to paste my last correspondence to her that I sent 3 weeks ago.  Can you guys tell me what you think?  She has not responded.  I can't tell if something I said was insulting, she really doesn't care or doesn't know how to respond.  Anyway, this is very personal but I have to vent it out.  It really does help.
----------------------------
I am contacting you because some time has passed and emotions should have cooled down a little bit. I know you were very upset and I know that stepping back was the correct thing to do. I tried to implement this strategy (with your agreement when we started talking this last time) because it is a healthy way to deal with a conflict when we both 'react'. What I would like to know is: did you mean what you said about me leaving you alone? I will, if that is indeed what you want but I wanted to ask you when you weren't as upset and time has passed. We have been here before and got through it. We were both thankful that we did because we both valued our friendship. It had been discussed on many occasions that we were glad we became friends and happy we had someone that was there... .just to be there.

I know you dude. I feel like you are misunderstood under the surface and I felt like I could understand you as well as a friend could. Whether you honestly dislike me at this juncture or not, I feel like I got to know the 'real' you. I feel like you let me in and allowed me see things about you that no one/or very few knew. I have seen you at your strongest and I have seen you when you were at your most vulnerable. Your vulnerability came with a cost though…it made me care about you, want to understand you and I wanted to be there for you.

You have explained these things to me before: You told me that you have trouble with rejection. You told me you are aware that you can be paranoid and it can create a skewed reality and happens when you are in a manic state or heavy depression, which I believe you were recently in. You warned me that you lash out at the people closest to you and push them away before they can get too close/hurt you. I know that when you lash out, it comes from a place of extreme emotion and uncontrollable hurt. You told me that when you lash out you are often sorry and remorseful of things you said but don't know how to fix it because time has passed and it's easier to move on and cut your losses (this friendship seems to be an expensive loss, at least to me). If you were upset and said things you didn't mean, it's important to convey to me after you’ve cooled down. I did not take what you said to me personally, because I knew this. You and I have been through a lot together dude and I told you I would not stop trying unless my friendship with you had worn its welcome. I have known these things about you and I've always accepted this part of you, without judgment. You are my friend and I refused to judge you for something that could not be helped and your feelings are valid no matter how upset you are at the time. We all have our crap, dude. I only wanted to understand and support you because you deserved someone that honestly and truly would... .even when you push them away.

I felt our friendship was strong enough to withstand differing viewpoints and we would be able to discuss them and come to a resolution even if it took some time to step back and reflect. I was not trying to intentionally hurt you and for that I am sorry. You told me before that you thought I was a good person and knew I wouldn't intentionally hurt someone. I wouldn't. I especially wouldn't try to hurt someone I cared about. I cared for you like a sister would... .I still do. I told you I would stand by you through all of your turmoil and pain and I meant this. I feel like a deserter for walking away if you really don't want me to... .I only wanted to be a friend that would be strong enough to weather the storm even if you were upset at me. I considered us very close although we've never 'met' and I believed you felt this way too but maybe this changed and I will accept your current opinion as truth.

The 'best friend' statement was from me and how I felt. I didn't say 'we'. I would never assume mutual feelings based upon my own... .I was talking about my feelings and the effect of you being in my life had on 'me'. You were the closest friend I had so it had equated 'best friend' to me... .Our friendship was not based on 'obsession' because if you really felt that way, I doubt that you would have had regular mutual contact with me multiple times a day. You and I were on a level playing field and I wanted nothing from you but your friendship... .and in turn I offered you mine.

If this friendship has really run its course for you... .please tell me (when not upset) and I will respectfully back away and distance myself. Friendships can only exist if both people warrant the benefits. I have learned a lot in regards to navigating the troubled times in our friendship and I still believe benefits of our friendship outweigh the disagreements/misinterpretations. Yes, it can be hard sometimes but all worthwhile things are, IME. I think the friendship we have is worth it, but it is my opinion and I digress.

If 'finality' is your decision, please know that I only wanted the best for you and always will. Sorry this is so long but I wanted to fully explain in case this is the last time I spoke to you. I wanted you to understand that I cared for you even if the feeling is no longer reciprocated. I will remember you. I have learned a lot about myself on many levels and thank you for being in my life as brief as it may have been. Thank you for reading, my ole pal.
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empty-reflection

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« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2016, 06:28:44 PM »

Just venting for a minute.  Today has been hard and it has been frustrating.  I read the email I posted above and still felt it was sincere and honest weeks later.  It's one of those days that nothing makes sense.  Yesterday, I was strong and stoic but today I am in shambles again.  Bluntly, I just miss her.  I feel like she died, but it is worse than that... .I am dead to her.  I feel like having a temper tantrum today like a young child and sending her an email about how I really feel... .how she's really damaged me... .how broken I am.  Almost forcing her hand to block me so I can have some kind of closure.

I have been through so much in the past year suffering through an excruciatingly long taper and yet this feels like a challenge far beyond my grasp.  I have achieved something that many have not and still I feel empty.  I'm not sure if anyone has the experience with being on opiates as long as I have, but it creates a 'zombie' effect where you have no emotional depth.  All of your feelings are surface level and it is very difficult to understand sadness, happiness and anything beyond robotic automation.  It deadens something in your brain... .She is the first person in 25 years that I actually cared for and loved... .it was the first time I felt compassion for someone else, other than myself.  I identify my sobriety with her in my life and now I feel completely lost and defeated.  I am seeing a therapist about everything because I've had issues dealing with a range of emotions I've never had before.  When I quit, I was so confident and sure of everything.  I was so very proud of myself for kicking a drug with a 95% relapse rate.  I am in the 5% and I sit here in a puddle of self-doubt and shattered resolve.  I am not going to relapse, I am not worried about that but the thought I do have is, "It was so much easier being numb and not caring about anyone else".

Anyway, I am just venting here like a journal of sorts.  Hopefully tomorrow will be better and like sobriety, I will take it one day at a time.  Thanks for reading.
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« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2016, 07:40:12 PM »

Excerpt
I identify my sobriety with her in my life and now I feel completely lost and defeated.

You're kind of wavering there, you gave yourself credit with your sobriety and then connect that with your ex. You did that. How do you attribute that with her?

When you say that you want to let her have it because she may take the initiative to shut you out first, maybe that would give you closure. Do you think that you might regret that? What feeling can you idemtify with here? Do you feel angry at her ?

Many of us, including myself were not given closure, when two adults in a healthy r/s decide that they don't want to continue for whatever resin they give each other closure. Your ex is emotionally immature and can't give that you. You can give closure to yourself.
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empty-reflection

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« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2016, 08:36:59 PM »

I should re-word that.  No she does not get credit for my sobriety, at all.  That is all me... .what I meant is ever since the first day since I've been sober, she had been there and now she's not.  Meaning my 'support' friend is gone and I'm trying to adjust without her. It is hard dealing with the loss when everything is so fresh especially since she was my main go-to for issues/sharing.

Yes, I am angry and venting on this thread.  I am wavering my thoughts daily/hourly. I am not going to do anything but I'm sharing my thoughts about what I'd like to do for the sake of expressing frustrations.  I am angry at myself for how I feel.  I'm well aware that I drive my own feelings and I am responsible for learning how to adjust them.  I am also aware that talking about how I feel when I feel weakened, helps me get back to feeling ok again.  It comes in waves and I hit a low spot.

I desperately want closure for myself.  This is why I share and read on this forum.  I will get there and I will be stronger for it. Thanks for your reply... .I definitely wanted to clear up the fact that I don't hold anyone responsible for my sobriety but myself.   
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« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2016, 08:47:37 PM »

Excerpt
All of your feelings are surface level and it is very difficult to understand sadness, happiness and anything beyond robotic automation.

It may be hard for you understand your feelings. I think that you articulate well  Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2016, 02:10:32 PM »

If anyone has read my thread you would have learned that I met my BPD friend online (BPD was unknown at the time).  We have never met in person.  We have spoken on the phone a dozen times but mostly it was texting.  I realize it isn't the same as a long term relationship with a physical person but there was still a very intimate connection formed.  She would share things with me that were incredibly deep and soul baring in text message novels.  It was almost like she talked to me like she was talking to herself.  We ended up being very close this way... .I could sense her tone and emotion, etc.  Anyway, I wanted to explain that since we never actually met we still created a close bond.

Ok - so there has been a shift in my thinking since yesterday that I wanted to share with you guys.  I've had this big elephant in the room of 'why didn't she block/unfriend me on facebook'... .and it has been driving me a bit nutty so I cut social media down to the bare minimum.  Now, it almost feels like NOT blocking her was the best thing I could have done.  She was on a rampage yesterday on FB saying things that I would never say in a thousand years in public.  I remember thinking to myself, "I am nothing like this person".  If we did block each other, than I never would've seen this side of her.

It is a strange realization, but the more time I get away, I'm starting to see things like this.  I have always tried to be a good person.  I treat people with respect and understanding.  I care about people and I am empathetic to another person's struggles.  I live in shades of grey as I'm sure most of us on this site do.

When I first met my friend, I thought she was just like me... .had my same attitude/opinions, etc.  The further I get away from the friendship, I'm starting to wonder if she was only mirroring me?  It certainly seems like it from where I now stand.  It was almost like she was mirroring my positivity and reflecting it back to me... .  I was kind of a moral compass for her and would attempt to keep her centered.  From her actions online, she is no longer centered and is quite literally making a 'fool' of herself... .and being a person I would not associate with in real life.

I don't want to see anyone act like a fool but it has helped me realize that maybe we didn't have as much in common as I originally thought.  I was stuck on the initial facade for so long and it's taking time for the layers of truth to peel away.  I still love and care for her, but it feels like my first step away from the reeling pain and into acceptance of facts and reality.  Maybe my first glimpse of actual detachment? 

Anyway, I wanted to share that.  Thanks for reading guys.
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« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2017, 10:26:12 PM »

Hi Everyone,
I thought I'd check in and say hi.  I've been lurking in the background for a while because I didn't have much to say.  Reading this forum is still incredibly helpful because it's very difficult for other people who didn't experience a friendship/relationship with a BPD to understand.  I haven't had mutual contact with my uBPD friend since the end of October.  I did cave and sent her a 'merry xmas' but never got reply... .I figured as much though.  We are still friends on FB which could be a blessing or a curse.  The jury is still out on this one.  On one hand, it removes the mystery of if she's alive, etc... .on the other hand, I've got to see the chameleon in action.  It is unbelievable how much someone can change in a couple months.  I've seen her go from being my best friend to someone I can't even recognize.  Completely different opinions and interests.  Really WEIRD to watch from the side lines.  For now, I'm fine being here... .everyday gets easier for me.  I know our friendship will never be what it was... .because she is no longer the same person and nothing good will ever come out of it.  Only pain and confusion, for me.  She found someone else to mirror, I guess.  I can pretty much guess how that is going to end... .right?  Anyway, keep fighting the good fight guys.

PS.  I use creative writing as an outlet sometimes... .I wrote this a while back when I was really confused and couldn't stop thinking about everything... .I figured you guys might relate... .I hope you like it.


The wait.


I can hear the words without hearing. I have no choice because there are no words, only the reverb of silence that surrounds me. My dreams are invaded when I descend for a peaceful reprieve. I find no peace there. No quiet. Only questions. Venom whispers.  My body is caught in a solstice as the warmth of the sun turns away pushing me toward the darkness once more. Sunless. Starless. Moonless. Standing alone withering, I wait. Solitude is my savior. Solitude is my torment.

I have been baited and I have been poisoned. Toxic. Choking. Tears. I stand here shivering and waiting for the relief that will never come because all that I knew was an illusion. A ghost. A reflection. A mask. My mind plays tricks to make sense of what is senseless. The answers never come so I am required to play both roles. The seams that hold me together are as strong as tempered steel caused from the constant cracking and welding. The smile I wear is faded. Jagged. Sincere. My silhouette in its weakest state is outlined by confusion and dampened with shame for losing all I had given away. I hide here. Blinded sight. Holding my breath so I know I'm still alive. Hollowed.

Balancing on my heels and toes I stand on a blade that will not cut me but I can feel the searing heat of the slice. Frozen in place my breathing is shallow as I wait for time to pass me without a sneering glance. Everyday here gets darker consuming all with shadows. This is the place where the serpents cannot hide from me. This is where I hunt. This is where I slay. This is where I crumble. This is where I wait.
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