I called her out...likely not best thing...but I stood up for myself

[formflier]

So... .she gets home and starts asking questions about fitting something in the van for someone at her work.  Conversation is not bad... .but not particularly good either.

Then... .she calls S16 to come upstairs and "help Daddy get seats out of the van... ."  (hasn't asked me to help her yet... .nor had she asked me how I was feeling... .if back was ok for lifting... .etc etc)

So... .I ask her when the seats need to be out of the van.  "S16 leaves at 6 in the morning" is what she says.

I ask again if it can be done later this evening... .she says "I suppose I can get some women to help me get them out tomorrow"

I say "Can I get a direct answer to a direct question?  When do the seats need to be out?"

More blather... .she "should have known better than to ask for my help"

I walked out of room saying that if she can answer my question directly, I would consider helping.  I heard her yelling about not wanting my help.

Sigh... .

The reality, from my point of view.  I was having tingling in an arm and wasn't a fan of trying to lift something at the moment.  Perhaps I could loosen up and do it later.  

Then... .the presumption she showed by asking S16 to come help... .and not asking me... .that was a bit much.

I don't plan to bring it up again... .

FF

[Sunfl0wer]

 
Kinda curious what you think.

If you had a redo, what are your thoughts on how it would go?

[formflier]

 
She is back home now... .and hasn't mentioned it.  Seems fairly pleasant.

If I had a redo I would make it more about me. 

"If you would like my help sorting this out, I'm going to need the information I requested"

or

make it all about her feelings

"Is there something on your mind you would like to discuss?"

In the answer I gave... .it was very evident with tone and all the rest... .that I was complaining about her... .or giving the impression that she was "wrong" in the way she approached me.


FF

[Sunfl0wer]

Humm, thx... .
I was wondering where you would head since likely, my thoughts may not occur to you in the heat of a moment in need, but working from where you are at could be easier.

Sory tho... . not sure I woulda went that way so I'll share... .had time to digest by now.

What do you think about a SET?

S: Sounds like you want to help coworker
E: Pretty cool of you!  I love that about you, thinking of others, ur great. (Ok, a bit corny, silly, exaggerating now)
T: wasnt what I was expecting for the night.   Id like to help, when can we discuss?  I need to understand to consider some issues and plans towards my evening.

Ok, so that is a bit um... .draft like... .but maybe you see my direction?

... .

Sounds to me like you reacted in defense of her encroaching on your time, health, availability, etc.

In line with P advice of not making her "wrong," you seem to imply wrongness.

... .

Seems like her focus was on being "hero" for coworker or such, but your communication switches her orientation from Her Hero to "in Conflict with FF." (Which is invalidating and makes her feel the need to defend imagined wrongness)

Maybe any approach that helps her retain the role she brought to you?
Validate the "Her Hero?"
Then SET
Then leave it up to her to respond/react?

[teapay]

Why didn't you just tell her there was a tingling in your arm and that you couldnt do it right then, maybe later, then enforce that boundary until you felt better.  Not much to say after that.  If that wasn't okay with her, she could  ask someone else to do it or solve the problem in another way.  It is good that your starting to stick up for yourself.  There are many ways to do it.

[formflier]

Why didn't you just tell her there was a tingling in your arm and that you couldnt do it right then

That's like throwing a fastball... .and letting the hitter know it's coming.

"Right... .I've heard that excuse before... .you would think after laying around all day your arm wouldn't tingle... "

Or something like that... .

FF

[KateCat]

I ask again if it can be done later this evening... .she says "I suppose I can get some women to help me get them out tomorrow"

How about: "OK."

[teapay]

Sure you might a get predictable irrating comment from her, but that is part of sticking up for yourself.  That might be undesirable, but not something to be afraid of to the extent that cant be you and have your own needs/wants.  You would have honestly told her your desires and enforced a boundary making that possible, simplifying the interaction.

[KateCat]

I too think this dynamic can change. (Bet your wife doesn't treat you with such cruelty when you're out in public, or in front of your parents.)

Don't be afraid.

[Cat Familiar]

The  getting "some women to help me" quote was definitely a passive aggressive remark.

What I've been doing lately when my husband pulls that kind of BS on me is to play dumb and happily agree that would be a great idea. It kind of steams him, but I pretend I don't notice and just stay in my upbeat happy place.

[KateCat]

What I've been doing lately when my husband pulls that kind of BS on me is to play dumb and happily agree that would be a great idea.

Heh heh heh. This is actually quite satisfying. Enjoy!

[formflier]

It kind of steams him, but I pretend I don't notice and just stay in my upbeat happy place.

Yeah... .now that I've got some separation from the "event"... .I wish I had done this differently.  Granted... .I didn't have much time to sort this through and it had been a while since I've been "voluntold" to do things.

I do wish I could have exited at "getting women to help me". 

Perhaps... ."Sounds like good plan honey... ."  stay happy and leave room.

Later on that evening she texted me ":)on't worry about the van... .I handled it"  I didn't respond to the text.  The old me would have said something "snippy" about me not worrying about it... .  The new me ignored her "invitation to fight" or "re-litigate" the issue.

Let's back up at look at big picture for a second.  Where does my actual reaction "show" me to be in this process of "accepting" or "dealing with" my pwBPD in a healthy manner.

I think the quickness of this likely shows "my true heart".  On the one hand... .I didn't make a big deal of it an accuse her back of all kinds of stuff (the old me), but I did feel the need to "push back" and "stand up for myself". 

It was quick... .I didn't belabor it... .apologize for it... .or any of that.  Somehow she figured out the van seats.

I asked for clarification a couple times... .I'm guessing asking once is reasonable... .and should have left the rest out. 

Or... was I taking on too much "obligation" by worrying about it at all.  She was calling S16 up to help me with seats... .but didn't know if I was able.  Should I really be worrying about if she wastes her and S16s time.  (fictional example) So... he comes in and says he's ready to help... .I could say I'm not and leave it at that.  No explanation really needed. 

Thoughts?

FF

[Sunfl0wer]

My thoughts are that it appears you perceived this as an attack of some sort that needed defending.

Maybe you thought she was trying to use you, hijack your time, inconsiderate of you, not accepting your disability as a real factor in considering you, not really thinking of you as anything more than a tool or such, or some variation.  ... .obviously something was offensive to your senses.

I think you may do well to consider the perspective that her motivations were not to attack you.

Saying that tho, does not mean you were wrong to consider yourself, limitations, desires, etc.  For if you don't, no one else may.

My niece said... .
"Today, I am just "doing me.""
Meaning, she is just gonna do her thing, not consider others too much.  She meant it in a positive way, to not allow herself to be distracted.

I think your wife was
Just "doing FFw"

Seems like her first encounter with you she heard:
He is saying I am wrong

And it went downhill for her.

I suspect she and her boundary/enmeshment issues did not consider you as a separate person who would need to do anything other than what she felt driven for.  (Meaning, she simply didn't consider you.  Yet, this IS her being her.)

The way you state "i will need information I requested"
Really hits me like a reprimand to a child.
It sets up a poor schema mode for her to behave like the disobedient child.

I feel a message that would set a more positive schema mode would be... .
Looks like you are really determined to help this person out. (Stated in a complimentary tone)
I may be able to help, not sure, lets discuss what is involved.
In any event, I trust that either way, your likely to figure this out somehow. (Trying to compliment her for resourcefulness even if she doesnt rely on you... .also, she doesn't NEED to rely on you only, so this validates that reality too, putting that out there, that she IS capable of figuring out stuff.)

This way... .
If she chooses you... . It was positive
If she doesnt... .She was resourceful in your eyes
(And you are also the one getting to care for and consider yourself as you do need more info before agreeing)

She has a way to NOT be wrong!

Idk, am I really not following this? Or what?

[formflier]

Sunflower,

You are following this really well. 

I perceived that she was making plans for my back (carry things) without consulting me ahead of time. 

I know if no instance where she has done this with any positive outcome... .literally... .none.  So... .there is history there on my side as well.  She and her family expect to be able to tell me to lift things and when I decline or say I can perhaps do it later... .all kinds of craziness happens.

Last big thing was perhaps a year ago... .  I was told by her father that I would be helping to move a piano onto my trailer... .and then drive it 8 hours to my sister in laws.

I responded that due to my back I don't lift pianos.  A screaming fit broke out between my father in law yelling at my wife, my wife yelling at my father in law.  Both were telling the other that they would get piano moved and should "stay out of it"... .and my mother in law screaming at my wife to "not talk to her father that way".

I stayed in back room of their house until the screaming was over.  Later... .my wife blamed me for making them do that to each other.

Oh... .how I wish I was exaggerating by using the word "screaming"... .  Honestly... I'm not sure they could have been louder... .if they had tried.
 
I no longer have any relationship with my in laws... .this was one of the instances I used in my decision to move on from them.

So... .long way of saying... .I'm sure history played a part in my reaction... .even if I don't have conscious memory of bringing that into my thought process.

FF

[KateCat]

I remember the piano incident and it informs my thinking about events like this most recent one. These things just seem like they would feel awful.

Props to you! You are really getting your situation under control. Freeing yourself. I had no idea you'd stepped so far away from interactions with your wife's family. You are making this new state and this new place your own.

[formflier]

Yep... .last attempt to do anything with her parents was in July.  Wife's brother was in town... .so I invited everyone over to grill and hang out.  

I walk out on deck and asked them how they were doing.  Her parents just stared at me.  Brother said hi.  Brothers girlfriend was very chatty.

I hung around a few more minutes... .then went inside and played with kids for couple hours.

Yep... .just stared at me.

It had been few months since I had spoken to them.

From time to time my wife will claim I hate them.  I don't engage.

Knowing the family... .they want to use magic eraser and pretend things never happened or were never said.

I am done with that game.

FF

[Cat Familiar]

Wow! They really are the in-laws from Hell!

[formflier]

Wow! They really are the in-laws from Hell!

I would describe my relationship with them as "entertaining but bearable" for most of our marriage.  We never lived close to them.

In last couple years... .lots of weird stuff.  Then a fair period of calm for 6 months or so.  Whatever got stirred up with us moving close to them... .sent them off the charts.

I've been unapologetic about boundaries and naming their behavior.  I suppose they are used to people backing down or... .just not talking anymore.

My mother in law doesn't talk to 3 of her siblings.  I'll bet money they will never talk again... .for the rest of their lives.  They fought over their Mom's care in nursing home... .and a very limited estate.

When I say fought... .physical fight by the ailing Mom's bedside.

Sigh.

FF