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VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
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Author Topic: Introduction - 24-year marriage coming to an end  (Read 1292 times)
MovingOn23

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« Reply #30 on: April 12, 2017, 02:54:19 PM »

Today, moving week begins - that is, I begin moving into the house I'll be renting for the next 12 months, and we begin moving out of the home we've shared for the last 10+ years. While it is true that my BPDw moved out and into her own apartment at the end of last year, we hadn't yet sold our house until now. So it begins - moving my stuff to my new house, moving her remaining stuff that hadn't been moved to her apartment, and sorting out what to do with "our" stuff, because we are still separated and planning on living separately (at least for the foreseeable future).

She was emotional this morning, saying that she doesn't know what her place is, and how she feels like she can't say anything for fear that I'll interpret it as her controlling aspects of my new residence (pretty interesting that she's the one walking on eggshells now ... .).

I told her that this is really just a change in living arrangement for me (it really just solidifies the separation that began over 5 months ago) and gets us out from under the house (which was too big and too expensive anyway). I acknowledged that this week will be difficult as we pack up the house and move out, but I didn't apologize for doing what I'm doing and I didn't try to persuade her that she shouldn't be upset. I told her that what I need in regards to the move is for her to be supportive when I ask for moving help.

As for the status of the separation, she asked a couple of weeks ago for me to at least wait until after the move before making any decisions - and I agreed to that. I'm basically in one-day-at-a-time mode, and feeling that unless things fall apart that it'd be too soon to make decisions re: divorce vs. reconciliation. I'm very interested to see how we fare through this move - after that, she has a business trip, then I have a business trip, both of which will also serve as tests for whether we can manage our relationship in healthier ways than we have in the past. We will also have to deal with some more administrative-type things, like a few remaining bills that we need to divide up (more potential landmines).

We'll see - she got upset this morning, but it didn't turn into what used to be the typical emotional maelstrom of texts and phone calls. I'm grateful for that and hopeful that it's another positive sign.
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Lucky Jim
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« Reply #31 on: April 12, 2017, 03:54:58 PM »

Hey Movin'On, As hard as it is on you, I sense growth for you in this process.  :)on't rule out the possibility that you might be a lot happier when you get the move behind you.  You may find that life is a lot more peaceful without the drama or expectation of a confrontation.  Play it by ear.  Listen to your gut feelings!  Become who you are.

LuckyJim
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    A life spent making mistakes is not only more honorable, but more useful than a life spent doing nothing.
George Bernard Shaw
MovingOn23

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« Reply #32 on: May 09, 2017, 09:34:51 AM »

A lot has happened since my last post.

I got moved into my rental house.
We got moved out of our marital house that we sold.
Both of these were accomplished under a "one day at a time" premise.
Then, as scheduled, my BPDw went on her week-long business trip.

Purely by coincidence, the day she was scheduled to return from her business trip was our 25th wedding anniversary. This landmark date has been looming ever since the separation began 5+ months ago, and I have debated what to do (or not do) about it. I didn't feel right not doing anything to recognize it (after all, we really have been married that long), but given the circumstances, I didn't think that a true "celebration" was in order either. I openly discussed this conundrum with my wife. Add to the whole mix the fact that she was returning from a business trip, it was a weekday, it was also the day after our youngest son's birthday, and just a few days away from my upcoming business trip, and even under the best of circumstances, the day was anything but ideal for celebrating anything - so I decided we would go out to dinner. Just dinner to mark the occasion and recognize 25 years of marriage.

She was already upset - she posted something vague on facebook about how the day was supposed to be wonderful, but instead was awful - and my mom (who went through a divorce a long time ago) replied that she had been through something similar and that everything would be ok. Apparently my wife read into this reply and thought that I had told my family that I was going to break things off with my wife (I had not discussed any such thing with my family). My wife did not bring up the post or the reply, and I didn't either.

So we went to dinner together, and as the meal progressed, my wife became more and more upset. Eventually she was in full "you brought me here to break up with me" mode, and I tried repeatedly to remind her that we had agreed to approach things one day at a time until after the move and after our business trips were over - but she wasn't hearing it.

She left the restaurant before I could pay the bill, and once I was able to pay, I found her standing in a field next to the parking lot, upset and crying, confronting me with things like "when did you know it was over," etc... What followed was a dysregulation-fest, including us arguing, her turning off my car as I was driving down the road then getting out of the car and walking down the side of the road. Then getting a ride from my son to the house where she broke 2 wedding / couple-related pictures in the driveway. A long session where she had me cornered in my garage, berating me with things like "you never loved me," "you were never in this," "you had this planned all along," etc. to which I responded as little as possible, or with responses like "you can choose to see things however you choose to see them." She would not stop, and physically would not let me by. I did eventually lose my temper, and even said something along the lines of "if I was undecided about the divorce before, I'm definitely sure now! It is OVER!" Eventually she let me by, then left the house, then came back. She made sexual advances toward me (which I declined), and eventually agreed that I could drive her home. Once we were in the car leaving my subdivision to take her to her apartment, she attempted to jump out of my moving car (fortunately I was able to stop in time), then walked away and ended up laying down, in the dark, on the ground next to a large landscaping rock at the entrance to my subdivision. After that I did eventually get her dropped off at her apartment, and after declining invitations to come inside, I went home and turned off my phone.

The next morning, predictably, I turned on my phone to find a slew of text messages - followed by a text message that said "only read this one, I'm sorry for everything, etc... ." and a promise to give me the space I apparently needed and that she hadn't understood until now that I needed that space. My 17 year-old son expressed that he couldn't stand to be around our drama and that he wanted to go away on vacation (especially considering I was going to be out of the country for a week, leaving him at home alone with my wife still in town), so my wife and I agreed for him to go on a trip to visit family out of state for a few weeks, leaving at the same time as me.

My wife sent a small arrangement of flowers to my workplace with a note that said "I am So Sorry for everything! I will do whatever you ask or need for another chance on us!" After I was off work, I met her to talk. She was very subdued - she said she had taken a leave of absence from work and that she was going to go stay with family out of state for a while. I told her that I thought that was a good idea and that she should take care of herself as best she can.

A couple of days later, I left out of the country on my business trip. We basically agreed to no contact during my trip, which she honored until near the very end of the trip when she texted about needing to ask me something. I replied that I'd prefer to wait until I was back to discuss anything. Then she asked permission to send me an email, and I said ok.

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MovingOn23

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« Reply #33 on: May 09, 2017, 09:44:26 AM »

The email
[bracketed text] is where I replaced something to not mention specifics or names
I felt that posting as much of the letter as possible was important for providing insight into her thinking:

Please read with an open mind... .

If only I knew where to begin…  There is so much going through my mind, so I will just start writing and see what happens.
 
For starters, I want to let you know that I have acknowledged I have made so many mistakes throughout the years and it is clear that you and [the kids] have suffered tremendously. I also want to acknowledge that I agree that we can’t continue the way we were, and I don’t want to. I would like to build a new and amazing future with the man I have fallen in love with all over again.
 
I attended my first [co-dependency group] meeting last night and had a long talk with [friend who attends this group] and it became apparent that I have been trapped, unknowingly, inside my inner child and became stubborn towards our relationship and withdrew from you and the family, while also creating resentment towards everyone. Realizing all along I just wanted someone to grab me and hold me and take charge.  I was so tired of it all and it should have been a clue when I kept saying “I’m done, I’m over it, I can’t do this anymore”, but neither of us really knew what was going on or how to understand it.
 
Fast forward to November 2016, when I thought I knew what I wanted after I had withdrawn myself so far that I thought I wanted a separation.  It felt like the right thing to do at the time (or I rationalized it). During that conversation and seeing that there was not really a reaction from you then reinforced what I was feeling allowing another shield to be placed for protection. I had not only withdrawn so far at this point myself, I had also pushed you so far away that there seemed to be no hope and we didn’t know how to communicate to figure this out, so we were going with it.  You brought up counseling, but I responded with what I thought was the right answer, which was ‘No, we’ve tried that and it didn’t work’.  Being unsure with everything at this point I decided I was going to just follow your lead because I didn’t know what to do or be honest about my feelings.  I was in denial with myself and being stubborn about the whole thing, whether I thought I was proving a point or whatever it was. So, I agreed to filing for a legal separation and meeting with an attorney you had sought out, all along knowing I was too emotional, crying and asking if any of this would make things final.  This should have been the first indication that this was not really what I wanted, but I let my stubborn tendency be in control rather than stepping back and trying to figure out what was really going on. 
 
So, we are now into December where once again I think I’ve got this figured out and move out making up excuses. I continued to be emotional and question myself daily, but it was not until you left for [out of town trip] in early January to meet up with your family on a trip we were both supposed to be on, that I was slapped in the face and realized what I had done and was completely devastated. This resulted in me basically stalking you your whole trip making it a miserable one.  Finally we talked and agreed we would try counseling.
 
So we started counseling in mid-January and continued weekly until March. It was during this time, when we started communicating and re-connecting that I completely fell back in love with you all over again.  We were communicating, learning what each of us would like or even need out of the relationship, and our passion and intimacy exploded.  It was like we were newlyweds with our lunch ‘dates’ all over again.  We had opened up to expanding our horizons and trying new things and naturally, my mind moved faster than yours and I was seeing where we were approaching the next chapter/stage of our lives, where we going to become ‘empty nesters’ and we could enjoy a new beginning and new adventures…as it would just be the two of us in a matter of a few years, but this was not where you were.
 
I have come to realize I have been a burden and pressure to your unhappiness these past several months pushing you even further away.  I was not able to step back and give you the time you needed to catch up to where I was and during this time I was becoming more fragile with emotion, which was escalating everything. From insecurities, to abandonment to losing control of myself.  All at the same time not thinking rationally or able to just let you be to figure out you and where your thoughts and feelings were.  I was pushing and nagging and allowing my emotions to take over becoming a crystal glass that could break at any moment making it difficult to do anything or communicate unless I felt secure.
 
With the above I would like to apologize for losing control and not allowing you the space you needed to come to a place of peace.  I hope that you can accept this apology and see that I am putting into place what I need to in order to become a better wife and mom.
 
You will ultimately make your final decision, but I would like to ask you to join me in starting a new journey together and walk by my side as I begin working towards figuring my issues out to becoming a better me for everyone.  Marriages are work, but I would like to work on healing us if an option, rather than losing us.  If we are going to make changes, let’s make them together and be a success to our kids and family and keep a unified family showing them there is love worth keeping out there. 
 
I would like to start building new memories with you that could include… [various activities that I like to do], vacations, RV trips cross country, our kids becoming adults in a working world and coming and going, marriages, and even maybe one day grandkids.
 
I hope I have been able to provide you with some truth and insight on what I am facing and hopefully not pushing you further away.
 
I Love You with All My Heart, I got lost…  I am now fully aware that I need help and hoping it’s not too late to become a better me with you.
 
Will you consider a new beginning and memories and allowing the past to stay as the past?
 
A few quotes I found that touched me... .
 
“Our love is a journey, starting at forever, and ending at Never”
 
“It’s okay to not have the answer yet, continue the journey and trust the process”
 
 
All my love,

[ BPDw ]


This letter said so many of the things that I'd been wanting to hear from her for so long. I have to admit that reading it felt like a game-changing moment.
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RedPill
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Relationship status: Divorcing, 17 year marriage
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« Reply #34 on: May 09, 2017, 10:59:36 AM »

Hello MovingOn23,

I just read through your story from beginning to end. What a journey. I can't imagine the pain and heartache you must have felt through all that. It sounds like you've learned a lot and taken steps to begin the process of healing and reclaiming yourself even through some terribly turbulent times. And that's not an easy job. That deserves to be recognized.

You must feel so conflicted after receiving that letter. It sounds like exactly everything you've been hoping for. Like an affirmation of all the effort you have put into the marriage, and even of re-building yourself as you detached from her. That must be very hard. I absolutely cannot tell you what to DO about it, but it must be terribly conflicting. A feeling that I see a lot on these boards.

I did have one question and one comment about your story. The question: how has your teenage son been through this process? I have a teenage daughter who I worry about and I wonder how your son has been. The comment: please be careful when she's raging like she was in the garage when she wouldn't let you out. It would be so easy for her to slip, to fall, to hurt herself and then claim you caused the abuse. Be very cautious.

Some quick context about me: 17 year marriage to stbxudBPDw. After years of conflict, accusations, blame, withdrawal, and counseling she served me for divorce two weeks ago. I didn't realize until about 6 months ago that her behavior was so out of bounds to indicate a PD. Now I can see it and I am amazed. We're staying in our small house for now in separate beds. We have a teenage daughter.

My best wishes for you, MovingOn23. Hang in there.
RedPill



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Sluggo
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« Reply #35 on: May 09, 2017, 04:08:51 PM »

Movingon23,

That is insightful letter.  My wife could not write or has not been able to write.  I have been waiting for a letter like that also, but don't think my wife is able to allow herself to be that insightful. It is too painful for her.

Have you received letters like this in the past where she is able to name the issues and her part in it.  Or is this something different?

What are you going to do?


 
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DaddyBear77
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« Reply #36 on: May 09, 2017, 05:18:20 PM »

MovingOn23, first of all, thank you so much for sharing your story from beginning to end.

First, I'll admit that I haven't read every post here, but I read your first posts and these last few posts.

As someone who has wished and wished for an "I'm so sorry" letter, I can absolutely relate to where you are right now.

But I want to make an honest, "outside the situation" observation about your BPDw's letter:

Did she really make a commitment to change in that letter? She says "[I'm] fully aware that I need help" but does she actually make a commitment to making those changes?


This is the person that, just a week or two ago, threw herself multiple times out of a moving car, putting her life in real danger. She cornered you and kept you trapped while berating you, then later made sexual advances (as though nothing happened?).

She seems to make no mention of that in this letter, so I'd ask you to consider viewing this letter with a great deal of caution and skepticism.

What changes do you REALLY want to see? Is it really that you'd like her to stop "losing control and not allowing you the space you needed to come to a place of peace"? OR is it to get the serious, very difficult-to-sustain help that a pwBPD needs to get healthy(er) and really make things "work" inside a relationship?

I sincerely hope that this is an opening for you to discuss the issues that are really important to you, and create a real plan to reconcile. I can really see how much you love and care about this person. I really hope for the best for you both.
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BeagleGirl
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« Reply #37 on: May 09, 2017, 09:45:28 PM »

MovingOn23,
    I too would like to hear what your thoughts after having some time to ponder the letter.  I feel like there are many things in the letter that must draw your heart back to the dreams you have held onto for so long of a marriage that not only lasts 1/4 century (a huge achievement), but heals to the point where you can feel like it was worth all the pain and possibly even find some purpose for the pain that you have endured for so long.
    I am in a similar situation, though I know there are enough differences that I can't really say what I think you should do.  I would, however like to share some of what I'm thinking and would love to hear more of your perspective.
    This August will be my 22nd wedding anniversary.  The 21st went by with barely any recognition because things were in such a state of brokenness that it almost felt like rubbing salt in the wound to "celebrate".  I was in the middle of coming to understand that my husband is and has been emotionally abusive throughout our marriage and was being confronted by his unwillingess (inability?) to recognize and change those abusive behaviors.  I had been asking for a separation since April of 2016, but was still stuck in the cycle of abuse because I kept hoping that his words of remorse were the sign of change to come.  I now realize that I would spend hours "teaching" him what to say as I revealed the deep wounds he had inflicted right after the abuse and tried to convince him that what he had done was wrong.  He would wait a day or two until I was exhausted and desperate for some hope to cling to and then parrot them back to me.  At first that would lead to a tearful reconciliation, sex, a day or two of him smothering me with attention, then finding a way/reason to pull away emotionally, then tension building, then abusive act, then I'd spend hours explaining the hurt and trying to convince him that what he did was wrong... .
    I moved out at the end of January.  Sitting at the table with our two sons and telling them that I was leaving the home, probably for 6 months, was the hardest thing I have ever done.  I look back now and know it was God who gave me the strength to leave, because I was enduring incredible anxiety throughout the day and nightmares at night and, while I never fantasized about how to commit suicide, I felt like death was the only escape from the pain of my marriage.
   I started learning in the months before I left how to "poke holes" in the remorseful words of my husband.  I would ask questions that I hadn't "provided the answer to" about what he had done that was hurtful and why he did it, and whatever else came to mind.  Inevitably, I would start to see that he didn't understand what was wrong with his behavior, or he had justified it in his mind.  My mantra became "if you don't understand/believe that a behavior was wrong, there is no reason for you to stop that behavior". 
    Fast forward to this past Sunday, three months into our separation.  He is still focused on saying the right words to get me to come home, but when met with resistance and a request to disengage from the conversation, he traps me in a room.  When I firmly tell him to get out of my way and he realizes that he has just committed an act that I have clearly identified as abusive, he steps out of the way but then chases me down the hall begging me to come back and talk to him some more.
    The reason I tell you all this is because I feel like my husband is regularly communicating words similar to what your wife shared in the letter to you.  He is sorry for certain actions that I have indicated are unacceptable.  He is willing to do whatever I ask him to do.  He sees a beautiful future where he is the kind of husband I have been asking, begging, and now demanding he be.  IF I will return to our marriage while he works through these things. IF I don't move forward with legal separation.  MY unwillingness to return will do irreparable harm to our marriage and our children. 
    For now, I am holding firm on not working on our marriage until he has not only shown a willingness to do what is asked of him (DBT and consistently demonstrating "adult" responsibility with money, parenting, and upkeep of our house, etc), but starts to figure out how to be a healthy husband without having to be given step by step directions and lists of "rules" to follow. 
    I guess I feel like the damage is already done where it comes to our kids having to go through this separation.  Lengthening the term of that separation is probably less traumatic than coming back and (most likely) having to leave again if/when hwBPD falls back into patterns and refuses to continue the healing process.  I also have read and been advised that focus on improving a marriage when one member of that marriage is extremely unhealthy will not only be an exercise in futility, but will serve as a distraction/diversion from the unhealthy spouse working through their issues.
    I'm a little sad that I read a beautiful letter from your wife and distrust it based on my distrust of what my hwBPD says.  She probably is fully sincere about her desire to seek healing for herself and reconciliation with you.  I believe my husband is sincere, up until the point where he is asked to make a sacrifice he doesn't feel is necessary to maintain the relationship at a level that meets his basic needs.
    Would you consider asking your wife to seek healing regardless of your marital status while you seek healing for yourself.  You could potentially put a time frame around the "individual work" with the expectation that you will re-evaluate your readiness to start working on the marriage at the end of that period.  That's generally the approach I'm taking with my husband.  So far he's been very resistant to focusing on himself without some sort of "guarantee" that I will come back to the marriage and I've been very resistant to making that commitment without seeing significant change, at least in his attitude about why he's putting in the hard work (to be healthy vs to "win me back".
BeagleGirl
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ArleighBurke
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« Reply #38 on: May 09, 2017, 11:40:00 PM »

I've just read this post from start to finish.

You decided a long time ago to end the marraige. Yet you have been sleeping with her, seeing her, and been on the fence for months.

And she has been "promising you the world" - everything will be different, I can get better... .Do you believe it? When I threatened to leave my wife she said the same. Of COURSE that's what she'd say.

But what EVIDENCE do you have that she can change? I would like to think that signing divorce papers was enough of a motivator for her to get help - but she didn't. Living apart - big red flag - but she still didn't do anything. Selling the family home - NOW she says she'll change?

I LOVE my wife. But I have moved out and we are separated. Despite my love for her, she cannot change, and I cannot live with her drama. It is the most painful decision. Like having to put down your family dog because it has a painful inoperable injury. Love does not conquer all.

In a post a while back YOU said:
Excerpt
my wife doesn't understand what is wrong, ... .I'm not being specific about my reasons for wanting out of the marriage. ... .I don't really want to make it only about her, but more about the relationship dynamic and my feeling that it is not going to change - that the ongoing act of trying to rationalize or fix the relationship is making me feel worse, not better.

Making the final decision to leave is so hard. I understand the eternal hope you have that things may get better. But reality is they probably won't. You may be living apart but you are NOT separated. GO NO CONTACT. Spend 2-3 months with no contact, then see her again to check where things are at. Has she had any therapy? Has she done any self-improvement?

In reading HER letter:
Excerpt
I would like to ask you to join me in starting a new journey together and walk by my side as I begin working towards figuring my issues out to becoming a better me for everyone.  ... .  If we are going to make changes, let’s make them together... .

Call me cynical, but she identifies SHE needs to figure out her issues, but then straight away ropes YOU into having go help her.

Tell her you need space - real space - and that you have confidence in her to start her journey - and that you will come back to her in 3 months to see where she's at. I almost guarentee in 3 months time she'll have a stack of excuses on why she hasn't done anything.

(Sorry to be down and cynical, but just like me, you are clinging to lost hope and empty promises).
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MovingOn23

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« Reply #39 on: May 10, 2017, 10:35:32 AM »

Did she really make a commitment to change in that letter?

Not in the letter, but we are negotiating on the selection of a counselor that we feel would be effective in helping address our individual (and eventually collective) needs.

I am very skeptical, and I've told her so, pointing out the ongoing pattern that seems to inevitably end up right back in another bad situation eventually.

She is very embarrassed by her bad behavior after the anniversary dinner. Though she doesn't specifically mention it in the letter, she has verbally referenced it with me.

Excerpt
What changes do you REALLY want to see? Is it really that you'd like her to stop "losing control and not allowing you the space you needed to come to a place of peace"? OR is it to get the serious, very difficult-to-sustain help that a pwBPD needs to get healthy(er) and really make things "work" inside a relationship?

The latter - but again, I'm skeptical about her ability to sustain that.

Excerpt
I sincerely hope that this is an opening for you to discuss the issues that are really important to you, and create a real plan to reconcile. I can really see how much you love and care about this person. I really hope for the best for you both.

Thank you - your feedback is very much appreciated.
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MovingOn23

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« Reply #40 on: May 10, 2017, 10:39:00 AM »

I did have one question and one comment about your story. The question: how has your teenage son been through this process? I have a teenage daughter who I worry about and I wonder how your son has been. The comment: please be careful when she's raging like she was in the garage when she wouldn't let you out. It would be so easy for her to slip, to fall, to hurt herself and then claim you caused the abuse. Be very cautious.

We have 2 sons - one attends college out of town (so hasn't been around for these recent episodes) and the other is at home. Our son at home has made it clear that he thinks the solution is divorce. His biggest complaint lately is that he hates the back-and-forth, the recycling, the indecision.

Thank you for your reply - I also wish you and your family the best in your own journey.
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MovingOn23

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« Reply #41 on: May 10, 2017, 10:42:08 AM »

Movingon23,

That is insightful letter.  My wife could not write or has not been able to write.  I have been waiting for a letter like that also, but don't think my wife is able to allow herself to be that insightful. It is too painful for her.

Have you received letters like this in the past where she is able to name the issues and her part in it.  Or is this something different?

This is different. I haven't heard these things from her before, taking responsibility for her actions and apologies were never things she conveyed in the past.

Excerpt
What are you going to do?

I don't know. The letter made me feel more in favor of reconciliation than anything has thus far, but I'm still sorting through my feelings and what a framework for making sure the necessary work happens would look like.

Thank you for your reply, I really appreciate it.


 
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MovingOn23

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« Reply #42 on: May 10, 2017, 10:44:02 AM »

    Would you consider asking your wife to seek healing regardless of your marital status while you seek healing for yourself.  You could potentially put a time frame around the "individual work" with the expectation that you will re-evaluate your readiness to start working on the marriage at the end of that period.  That's generally the approach I'm taking with my husband.  So far he's been very resistant to focusing on himself without some sort of "guarantee" that I will come back to the marriage and I've been very resistant to making that commitment without seeing significant change, at least in his attitude about why he's putting in the hard work (to be healthy vs to "win me back".
BeagleGirl

I think this is an idea worthy of exploring further. I have an appointment with my counselor tomorrow and we have a lot to talk about, as they do not know about the anniversary dinner or anything thereafter yet.
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MovingOn23

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« Reply #43 on: May 10, 2017, 10:46:25 AM »

I've just read this post from start to finish.

You decided a long time ago to end the marraige. Yet you have been sleeping with her, seeing her, and been on the fence for months.

And she has been "promising you the world" - everything will be different, I can get better... .Do you believe it? When I threatened to leave my wife she said the same. Of COURSE that's what she'd say.

But what EVIDENCE do you have that she can change? I would like to think that signing divorce papers was enough of a motivator for her to get help - but she didn't. Living apart - big red flag - but she still didn't do anything. Selling the family home - NOW she says she'll change?

I LOVE my wife. But I have moved out and we are separated. Despite my love for her, she cannot change, and I cannot live with her drama. It is the most painful decision. Like having to put down your family dog because it has a painful inoperable injury. Love does not conquer all.

In a post a while back YOU said:
Making the final decision to leave is so hard. I understand the eternal hope you have that things may get better. But reality is they probably won't. You may be living apart but you are NOT separated. GO NO CONTACT. Spend 2-3 months with no contact, then see her again to check where things are at. Has she had any therapy? Has she done any self-improvement?

In reading HER letter:
Call me cynical, but she identifies SHE needs to figure out her issues, but then straight away ropes YOU into having go help her.

Tell her you need space - real space - and that you have confidence in her to start her journey - and that you will come back to her in 3 months to see where she's at. I almost guarentee in 3 months time she'll have a stack of excuses on why she hasn't done anything.

(Sorry to be down and cynical, but just like me, you are clinging to lost hope and empty promises).

All excellent points that I will take to heart. Thank you.
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« Reply #44 on: May 10, 2017, 11:55:34 AM »

Wow-wow wow... .movingon23,

I remember reading this post the first time, we are in very similar situations as I am separated from my uBPDstbxh since Nov 2016 also. 23 yr marriage. This time its for sure, though. We have separated for a week here and there and I remember wishing so hard he would say the words, sincerely, that your wife writes.

Flash forward to now, and I don't want to hear it. I'm truly done. Sometimes I read on breakup board: "She left without a word" "He was so cold when he said goodbye" "She has no feelings!" "I haven't heard from him in 3 weeks"   Well, I'm pretty positive my pwBPD is gonna say those things about me! Sure, after 23 years of every type of emotional, verbal abuse, gaslighting to the point I questioned if I was the pwBPD, recycling, the rages, glaring, mocking, blocked doorways, the threats (I'll keep the kids because you're sick and I can prove it), the put-downs (no one will hire you, how will you support yourself) etc etc... ., yes I am DONE! I will act "unemotional" in the face of his pleading and manipulation, if he even does and I don't want him to, because I am SPENT. I don't want to hear it - I have heard it all before.   

We endured 7 years of MC and seriously, all it did was arm him with professional terminology to attack me, blame me even more, and make excuses for his behavior. The hundreds, thousands of times during this 23 year marriage I cried myself to sleep at night, wondered how I was ever going to be free, ached for him and his pain but no way to help him, the disappointments, all of it. Now done. 

I hope it all works out for you, I really do. But tread carefully.  Attention(click to insert in post) You've come oh so far and we all know what it takes to accomplish what you have. Don't throw it away. Remember how it felt everytime you got duped before. Make 1000% sure its for real this time if you do take her back. Make her prove it if you can.

Namaste.
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MovingOn23

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« Reply #45 on: May 22, 2017, 04:55:41 PM »

A few weeks later now, and if I'm honest with myself, we've recycled again. I still haven't given her keys to the house, and she's still being VERY respectful of my space, but we are spending a lot of time together. She is getting back into individual therapy, and has been consistently attending her ACA support group. She is still talking about HER issues (not "our" issues which she used to strongly emphasize) and seems almost excited that she has begun to figure out how her past has been triggering her behaviors.

Yes, I am hopeful. I want to believe.
I also have a small voice inside that is afraid that I'm just Charlie Brown, thinking I'm finally going to get to kick that football, and hoping that Lucy isn't going to pull it away at the last second yet again.

At my last appointment with my counselor, they strongly emphasized just how long and difficult the road to recovery would be for my wife and, based on their past experience with her, they do not feel optimistic about the outcome.

Kinda sucks when being realistic about a situation means ignoring what's real right now.
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ArleighBurke
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« Reply #46 on: May 22, 2017, 06:12:05 PM »

If things are working, then enjoy the now!

But be mindful to not expect the same in the future. Maybe things will work out, maybe they won't. This is not up to you. Accept you have done all you can - and keep an open mind and heart.

Good luck.
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MovingOn23

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« Reply #47 on: June 01, 2017, 04:42:18 PM »

Latest update - my BPDw is starting with a new counselor, someone who comes recommended by my counselor, who understands the BPD issues my wife is dealing with. This counselor is also able to do EMDR which my counselor thinks may help - IF my wife is willing to face the issues she hasn't gone far enough to face in the past. But she still seems to be going in the direction of taking personal responsibility and working on her own personal issues.

I'm hopeful, but waiting ... .
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MovingOn23

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« Reply #48 on: August 09, 2017, 02:43:10 PM »

2 months since my last update - my wife is still regularly attending counseling (as am I) and starting to dig into childhood issues. My son mentioned (without any questions or prompting from me) that "mom is different" - that she is "way better" and how she isn't blowing up like she used to.

We even went on a 1-week trip that involved camping every night - which isn't really something we've done before. Camping is very much my thing but she was willing to give it a go, and it went great.

Her apartment lease is up at the end of the month, and I had already told her that I see no reason why she would need to continue living separately - but she later calmly said that maybe she should go ahead and keep an apartment because she doesn't want to jinx our progress or rush us or take anything for granted. That what we're working on isn't a "done deal" yet - I was pleasantly surprised and impressed to hear that come from her.

So forward progress continues. I continue working on being direct and communicating my needs (and not doing things based on what I think she would want me to do). I also continue making sure that I'm actively demonstrating my love for her, as well as communicating that I recognize and appreciate what she's doing for herself and how it's improving our relationship.

Still a work in progress, and I won't pretend that there won't be challenges along the way, but life on the other side of her breakthrough is still pretty darn good.
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« Reply #49 on: August 09, 2017, 03:42:25 PM »

MovingOn23,

Wow, I just read through your entire posts… you have been through a lot, I was married for 21 years to my child bride, my first marriage, we had three children together, and the oldest is special needs, she too had a bad childhood, in a word, horrific, she told me what happened to her after about four years of us getting married, before our second son was born, and I was too young to understand, or else process, so as the years went on, so downhill the marriage went, we tried so hard, started over so many times, even got remarried at one point, to make a very long story short, I, well we both fought hard to stay together, and in the end we lost… you see, what she went through as a child haunted her, she acted out, and made her do many things that was not conducive to any healthy marriage, so much pain, it almost killed me to lose her over and over, and it took me years to finally come to grips, and even try to understand what and why all this was happening, Why our marriage was falling apart, but you see I loved her so very much, we had history, years and years together and three beautiful children, and I was NOT going to give up… And in the end, she left ALL of us, and moved on to be with her inner tormentors full time, I became a divorced and single full time father with full custody, Fast forward to 2007, so I’d been divorced a whole year, and I met someone new, she seemed awesome, perfect, and after all I was an old pro, might as well been a phycologist, boy was I wrong, my new lady and I dated for four point five years, and then we married, she had also been married before, then as time passed, so did the never ending fights, which grew worse and worse, why was this happening, so here I am, also 51, and I am tired, I ain’t got no fight left in me, this one is another mission for God?… I am absolutely sure she is BPD, maybe some HPD to, it was too good to be true, and I fell for it, the same thing to me,  I read your whole post, and I hope the best for you, and your wife, just be careful, I knew its very hard to let go, in the end my first wife let me no choice as she finally left on her own accord, this current wife, she is full of anger now, all was hidden way until after a few years of marriage passed, and why, I think I know, what will I find out about her childhood, as far as I know, it’s all fake made-up story, a phony… secrets within secrets this family, I feel like I was tricked sometimes, I have no motivation to continue beyond basic caregiver, I am so tired of the fights, the “dysregulation”, the endless character assassinations, sometimes, I think a scared teenage girl is standing there yelling at me, no I am sure it is !,

Again, good luck to you, I hope for you the best, whatever the outcome, for both you and your wife, v/r Tim
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“We are so used to our own history, we do not see it as remarkable or out of the ordinary, whereas others might see it as horrendous. Further, we tend to minimize that which we feel shameful about.” {Quote} Patrick J. Carnes / author,
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« Reply #50 on: January 10, 2019, 05:46:47 PM »

Hey there. I was just curious, are you guys still together and how are you these days? I'm still recovering from a tramautic 7 year on and off again relationship with my uBPD that ended 6 months ago and I'm just curious. Hope you're doing well.  Thanks!
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