Fear of Intimacy...

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

Not that I am in the situation to be intimate with someone else, but sometimes I think about it and I start to cry. I actually used to be somewhat promiscuous before I married my ex... .so the fact that I have not had sex with anyone since my ex is a big deal for me. Sometimes I think about what it would be like to be with someone else and I just want to curl up and avoid it all together.  I was a very sexual person, particularly with my ex. He could never complain about me that I didn't "give him enough"... .I bet he still does though. I only said no to him twice in 9 years. He was always wanting sex. I had a younger man and I was afraid if I said no, I would lose him. Maybe that's part of it- Maybe there is some kind of trauma behind that. Knowing you were not loved the way you thought you were, plus all the women he had during the marriage and finding a woman in my bed with him... .just set me over the edge. I know my lesson here is to be more careful with myself and make sure I am with someone whom I can trust if I ever meet anyone. I just have no interest in it at all... I find this bothersome. Is this normal?

[Herodias]

Not that I am in the situation to be intimate with someone else, but sometimes I think about it and I start to cry. I actually used to be somewhat promiscuous before I married my ex... .so the fact that I have not had sex with anyone since my ex is a big deal for me. Sometimes I think about what it would be like to be with someone else and I just want to curl up and avoid it all together.  I was a very sexual person, particularly with my ex. He could never complain about me that I didn't "give him enough"... .I bet he still does though. I only said no to him twice in 9 years. He was always wanting sex. I had a younger man and I was afraid if I said no, I would lose him. Maybe that's part of it- Maybe there is some kind of trauma behind that. Knowing you were not loved the way you thought you were, plus all the women he had during the marriage and finding a woman in my bed with him... .just set me over the edge. I know my lesson here is to be more careful with myself and make sure I am with someone whom I can trust if I ever meet anyone. I just have no interest in it at all... I find this bothersome. Is this normal?

[woundedPhoenix]

"I just have no interest in it at all... " that sentence kind of resonates with me. This feels very confusing but it is normal i think.

I long for intimacy and closeness now, i think more then ever before in my life.

Sexually, it's a different story, i don't know why but i can no longer open up fully on that end. Maybe it is because towards the end of my BPD relationship, sex became the only form of closeness still left, one of the few ways to still connect, and even that was subjected to this ill feeling that the person i was looking for, was no longer 'there'. So even sexually i felt rejected, controlled, discarded.

And that's a very sharp contrast if i look at the way i was, i was a very sexual person and i could just throw myself.

I wonder what that means... .has our sexuality evolved to merely be a tool to try to control or gauge the status of a relationship where we all too often felt rejected, not the free and beautiful experience it is supposed to be?

[Sunfl0wer]

I find this bothersome. Is this normal?

I think "normal" for sexual desire comes in a wide range.  Speaking for myself and my own observations, many things can affect my sexual desire.

- exercising regularly, increases it.  As does eating healthier.

- grieving over a loss, decreases it

- hormones changing with age, and hitting about 35, I found an increase

- getting older, and feeling less insecure, another increase

- being in a new relationship that is exciting, increase

- being in a relationship where my non sexual intimacy desires are being neglected, causes me a decrease.

- being with a partner who wants to have a positive impact in me, cause an increase

- sometimes anxiety can increase desire for me (I seem to have desire when anxious over work... .like one may crave a drink after a stressful week)

- being in a new relationship generally causes an initial increase for me as I become conditioned to regular sex, the body seems to adjust to expecting that.  Where as if it is a more regular relationship, where sex is weekly, then my body seems to adjust to that too.  Then if I am not in a relationship, focused on other things, my libido can just turn off and not seem to care.

I usually don't get turned on by looking at guys, so outside of a relationship, or potential for one, if I am not turned on, it pretty much doesn't bother me.

So, I really don't know what is "normal" for everyone else, hence why speaking for myself and simply sharing cause maybe we all tick a bit different for our own normal.

Yet, there was actually a time my doctor asked if I orgasmed each encounter.  So, he also asked other things, was trying to determine how depressed my body was functioning at and if it was capable of certain chemical reactions, specifically that day his focus was oxytocin.  So depression, and other medical things can affect a body in ways too.  

Hopefully something helpful.

[Herodias]

You both have very valid points that I can relate to. Maybe it's just a matter of finding the right person eventually. I actually had a dream last night after I posted this that I was dating someone who seemed young, but got older as the dream continued. We were dating and liked each other allot, but didn't even kiss... .when we eventually did, it was wonderful. There was no sex in the dream. I actually woke up happy... .maybe that was my answer. Take it real slow... .thing is, so many people today are in such a rush. I guess the right person will not be. I felt like eventually my ex was just using me as his sex toy in the end... .I felt very discarded when he moved on with so many other women so fast. I was thinking about how he told me that he didn't want to marry his baby's mother due to the future women! I wonder if he still feels that way... .When I heard that I realize it was his addiction to new relationships and not me that was a big part of the problem with him. It's just awful feeling so used. : (

[Sunfl0wer]

Hummm... .

Sounds like maybe this is not so much "personal"
But more "detaching?"

That answer was about ex more than you
or a dream

Than
your current sexuality

What about you?

[Dragon72]

I'm desperate for intimacy and my uBPD wife just can't seem to give it to me
 
She sleeps in a separate room with our 3 year old son. We have sex once every fewmonths and it usually involves me making love to her with little input from her, although she does seem to like what I do. Then as soon as its finished she goes off to sleep in a different bed.

I so want to feel loved, but I don't think she's capable.

[Herodias]

Dragon, my ex did that to me too. Very lonely existence.  Sunflower, maybe. Maybe because he was young and then got  older. I don't know. I have court with him in two days -I'm not happy about either! I don't want to see him!

[Sunfl0wer]

Sometimes focusing on my ex allowed me to escape feeling and experiencing myself.

I wonder if you find similar true.

Easier to discuss ex than self and self intimacy?
A form of escape of self?

Idk
am trying to be helpful

[Whatwasthat]

Maybe there is some kind of trauma behind that. Knowing you were not loved the way you thought you were, plus all the women he had during the marriage and finding a woman in my bed with him... .just set me over the edge. I know my lesson here is to be more careful with myself and make sure I am with someone whom I can trust if I ever meet anyone. I just have no interest in it at all... I find this bothersome. Is this normal?

Just to say I think this sounds completely 'normal'.

If the message is indeed to be more careful with yourself (which sounds right to me). Then it seems natural (and helpful) that your mind and body are not currently keen on the idea of sexual intimacy. Surely this is about your whole system seeking to protect you? I imagine it's reminding you that you need to be cautious about who you let into your life (let alone who you have a sexual relationship with). If you follow your body (and mind's) 'advice' then surely - in time - this will all 'normalise' again.

[Herodias]

Yes, Sunflower... .I heard today at a divorce group that focusing in your ex prevents you from moving on. I am focusing on myself though... .I just focused one what was wrong with him so that I could get a grip on what happened. I was devastated. It is weird to hear other peoples stories of their divorce... .most people don't have all the drama that we do. They just end or don't like each other any more... .Not all of this craziness.

[valet]

Hey Herodias, I don't know if this applies to you, but a lot of my involvement in my relationship was me judging my own value through sex. In other words, sex was love. I didn't put much effort into thinking about it at the time, but really, it was my value system.

My ex withheld a lot, and she would never engage. As the relationship progressed it took more and more effort on my end, and then stopped completely. It was really damaging to my ego and made me feel pretty worthless. And even then, I stayed.

I still have some reserved fears about ending up in that position again. I don't want to be be that person anymore. It is too painful.

So your question is a good one. You are not alone there.

But, it is also important to acknowledge this thing and try to make it good for you. We can work through our codependent features if we are aware of them.

[Sunfl0wer]

I just have no interest in it at all... I find this bothersome. Is this normal?

Well, this certainly may not be in line with other peoples values, maybe not yours Herodias.  Yet, I will put this out there... .I do believe intimacy and desire starts with self.  With how we feel about ourself, and care about ourself.  Self love, self nurturing and self exploration.

For example, I noticed something simple about myself.  When I am doing something, and my hair falls into my face, I wipe it away with a sort of communication to my hair and register it as a nuisance.  I often do it with slight annoyance.  I realized, if. I was helping a friend, I would not touch her so harshly to wipe hair out of her face.  Simply changing my own attitude and being mindful about the way I touch myself, to make it nurturing, whether it is a flip of my hair or a scratch of a cuticle, I am working on my intentions to myself being more loving, less burdensome.

Just wondering if it could be worth exploring things on your own, working on your relationship with yourself, your intimacy?
Or at least explore the connection of self intimacy vs other person intimacy?
Do you think they are related for you?

[Rubies]

The fear of intimacy reared it's ugly head in my life this week, so now I have to deal with it.  A couple of months ago a friend and I discussed the reason we don't have BFs is because we really don't want them.   We need to stop pretending we do, but we may need to address the WHY of our feelings.    We have practical reasons galore why "special" men won't fit in our new lives.  We value our freedom to do as we please without answering to anyone.  We don't really want to deal with Fear of Intimacy when we're still coping with the fallout of trusting untrustworthy people.  I have one totally trustworthy person in my life, that's my son in law.  In 6 years, the only men in our home is family. 

There's a couple of new guys in town who seem nice enough.  One man asked me if I was interested in a relationship.  I told him only with someone capable of relationship, and I wasn't sure if I was capable.  I told him when things got scary crazy with flying monkeys, the men I trusted all took a dive.  He seemed to understand.  He still shows up to talk when he sees me.    I found much to my relief people who know my situation blocked the guy from sitting with me at a community dinner.    I'm going to trust their judgment.

When I entertained the possibility of pursuing interest in a relationship with this man, a flood of negativity from past poor relationship choices overcame me and I had to calm down the PTSD and accept NO as my answer to myself.   How can we learn to trust again, why would we want to trust again?     The stress from the ordeal caused long repressed childhood memories to bubble to the surface.   I think finally knowing stuff from the black hole will go a long way in someday having a comfortable, intimate relationship in a way I've never experienced before.  If not, I'm happy anyway.

[woundedPhoenix]

How can we learn to trust again, why would we want to trust again?     The stress from the ordeal caused long repressed childhood memories to bubble to the surface.   I think finally knowing stuff from the black hole will go a long way in someday having a comfortable, intimate relationship in a way I've never experienced before.  If not, I'm happy anyway.

Here you have the blessing in disguise... .

Isn't it because we had long repressed childhood memories that we choose a relationship where intimacy and mutual understanding where very much conditional and in the end unobtainable?

Didn't we subconsciously get drawn into this dynamic cause we wanted to relive that and maybe construct another outcome than what we experienced in our FOO or childhood?

Did we need this to finally come to the conclusion that our childhoods and poor relationship choices are tightly related, and that in the origin, we didn't get what we really deserved when we were young?

To see that whatever we lacked or suffered through in our childhood, skewed our self-perception and self-worth, that we put basically the blame for that on ourselves when we were young?

My mother was chronically depressed, don't have any photo of her where she smiled on, and i can imagine that as a kid, i kind of drew the conclusion that my mother was not happy and emotionally unavailable... .because of "me". That i was a disappointment, and i was unable to create happiness in her life, whatever i tried.

[Rubies]

Friends had to tell me my mom and sisters are horribly abusive people.  I was 30. That was 28 years ago when I began to address boundaries on them.  I live 1,000 miles away, distance is a boundary.  I had to disengage completely, even with "supportive" extended family, because of the FOG to stay in the dynamic. 

It can be overwhelming to learn you spent your entire life gaslighted by those who "love" you.  It's overwhelming to learn even your "good" relatives tried to kill you.    I learned to put myself first, own my feelings as valid without need to justify to anyone.    I learned to trust myself and not let others define me.  I recognize my vulnerability to group and individual gaslights.   What I am learning now is to trust new friends who understand PTSD and my situation.   Finding/creating emotional safety among friends is my first step to overcoming Fear of Intimacy.   I am a long way from trust and intimacy in a romantic/sexual relationship. 

I have a friend who is a beautiful single woman who has "mean" family too.  She and I discuss men who may be datable.  The normal question is, "I know he's nice, but is he Ted Bundy nice?"  If you have to ask, he's probably not datable. 

[woundedPhoenix]

When we are too close, we can't see it, our perspective is so off, that we can't accept that what we got used to as 'Normal' isn't 'Normal' at all... .I bet it must have taken great strength to cut yourself loose.

We don't really want to deal with Fear of Intimacy when we're still coping with the fallout of trusting untrustworthy people.

I worked on Boundaries, Self-Compassion, Self-respect and actually connecting with and valueing myself directly instead of needing other people as a mirror to do that for me.

In a way, I thought, once i can truely be intimite and ok with myself, and get over the horrific pains, fears and confusion, it would all be fine.

And as i get really close to that stage these days... .And come to a point that i expected would be the full-blown "move on" moment, I stumble upon two strange realisations.

A. I realise my Radar is broken, i flew my airplane time and time again into emotionally unavailable territory. And although i clearly will set a totally different destination this time, i am not sure that i can trust that radar yet... .despite a fancy Red Flag upgrade... .it still could get me into trouble

B. Coming home to myself is an unexpected experience, and the more the things i avoided inside myself get cleared up, the more i like being on my own, and i feel that the former urge to be in a relationship to cover up that restless emptiness inside of me, has gradually faded away in the process.

[Grey Kitty]

Not that I am in the situation to be intimate with someone else, but sometimes I think about it and I start to cry. [... .] I just have no interest in it at all... I find this bothersome. Is this normal?

  I don't know what "normal" is, but it sounds healthy to me that you feel this way.

You mentioned at least huge three things around sex & intimacy with your ex that sound bad enough to be traumatizing. And since you have to see him in court, you aren't even done with him.

Wanting to cry when you think about it isn't the same as an absolute lack of interest, not at all. Both are good reasons not to pursue anything today, but they are very different!

Be gentle and patient with yourself. Most likely your desire will return. Someday. You can work on safe ways to get what you want and need if/when it returns.

[statsattack]

for me its like starting or trying to start a new relationship gives me this ptsd affect. When something reminds me of a past situation its like oh my gosh great this is going to happen again.

[Grey Kitty]

for me its like starting or trying to start a new relationship gives me this ptsd affect. When something reminds me of a past situation its like oh my gosh great this is going to happen again.

Can you be more specific? What was it that happened as this new relationship was starting, and what did it remind you of from your old relationship?

[Herodias]

I can see that... .just like when this guy text me saying he was thinking about me. That was a trigger! It set me off, because my ex did that all the time... .this guy was just trying to be nice, but I ended up telling him it was too soon for all that!

[Sunfl0wer]

I can see that... .just like when this guy text me saying he was thinking about me. That was a trigger! It set me off, because my ex did that all the time... .this guy was just trying to be nice, but I ended up telling him it was too soon for all that!

I find it neat that you are identifying what the trigger was, and that you were triggered.
Sounds like you are saying that you associate intimacy, kindness, with getting hurt maybe?
If so, that seems a bit reasonable.

Sometimes a person is getting too friendly or such and it helps me to dissect a bit to decide... .
Am I uncomfy cause I think he is moving too fast and then I will have to slow things down? (I'm Anticipating an uncomfortable confrontation of sorts)
Or am I experiencing feelings that I am not comfy with and afraid of? (Wanting to get relief from stuff that feels scary)
Or a combo, or something else?

Can you identify more the source of your discomfort?
What do you think could help you "sit with" these feelings?

[Grey Kitty]

Herodias, if you look at it objectively, do you think it was too early for him to say he was thinking of you?

And if your ex had sent you that kind of text, what happened next? Would he blow up at you if you didn't immediately respond in a way he found "acceptable"? Perhaps accusing you of not caring because you didn't respond the right way or fast enough?

[statsattack]

Can you be more specific? What was it that happened as this new relationship was starting, and what did it remind you of from your old relationship?

I feel like I'm trapped in a box and can't get out. Was texting this girl 3 days my x magically disappears. When she didn't text me back last Monday as fast as she did it felt like deja vu. When my x went from texting all the time to less n less went from human of the year to oj. So when she didn't text me as much felt like this is happening again great

[Herodias]

I have recently found out that abusers use the technique of calling and texting allot to keep tabs on you. Plus, my ex was a cheater, so probably wanted to know when I would be home or something. Yes, if I didn't answer or get back right away he would give me a bit of a hard time, but not terribly bad. He actually was always texting to keep in touch, he used it to attract me I know and to constantly give and receive attention from me. Always telling me he loved me... .little did I know he was doing that with other people. One of his co-workers told me he over heard him talking on his car phone with someone he knew wasn't me several times... .it was obvious it wasn't his Mother either! Just busy busy all the time. I think this guy texting me just really bothered me, which I am sure wasn't fair to project onto him, but at the same time. I just ended up crying. And yes, I told him we could be friends... .I don't think he should have been telling me he was thinking about me at this point. It is too soon... .we haven't even had a date. It just seemed like he is co-dependant and trying to replace his ex as soon as possible. I'm uncomfortable with this... .I have worked too hard to  learn what not to do. When I see it in someone else, it is a turn off now I guess.

[Sunfl0wer]

Well, gonna be blunt, cause quite frankly, know you on here often enough... .
So please as usual... .
Disregard what u don't like.
Cause you are your own expert, certainly not me.

I have recently found out that abusers use the technique of calling and texting allot to keep tabs on you.

Looks to me like coping mechanism= intellectualizing

Plus, my ex was a cheater, so probably wanted to know when I would be home or something. Yes, if I didn't answer or get back right away he would give me a bit of a hard time, but not terribly bad. He actually was always texting to keep in touch, he used it to attract me I know and to constantly give and receive attention from me. Always telling me he loved me... .little did I know he was doing that with other people. One of his co-workers told me he over heard him talking on his car phone with someone he knew wasn't me several times... .it was obvious it wasn't his Mother either! Just busy busy all the time.

Looks like distracting yourself via focusing on ex again. Not really self reflection/self awareness nor personal inventory... .more akin to going back to finishing your detaching issues.

I think this guy texting me just really bothered me, which I am sure wasn't fair to project transference onto him, but at the same time. I just ended up crying. And yes, I told him we could be friends... .

Never really heard what was the issue.
Why you crying?


-I think this worth reflection, (i see here the opportunity for self reflection) to sort out YOUR trigger here.
  Thoughts?

[Herodias]

Sunflower, I think you are right... .I was crying because I was thinking about how I missed the good part of my ex and that guy texting me that he was thinking about me was one thing I used to like about my ex, until I realized it was just all a game. The intellectualizing might be, but it is a fact. Yes, I still need to sort things out for sure. It doesn't make me happy that I am still upset over all of this... .but it is what it is.

[Sunfl0wer]

What ya think it could take for you to feel appreciated(/cared for, or something on more ok side of feelings) by someone thinking of you?

I'm thinking of u now, ... .ya gonna weep? J/k
But really... .
When will it be ok?

[once removed]

I have recently found out that abusers use the technique of calling and texting allot to keep tabs on you. 

abusers? what about someone who is clingy, has poor boundaries, or is just chattier than you?

the title of this thread is "Fear of Intimacy". if you see the world, and people in terms of "abusers", and try to lump them together by a supposed set of "techniques", then the world is a scary place.