I suspect mycmom is a CBoarderline" BPD. No one but family seems to see her issu

[MrWtn1978]

My mom is very controlling and hardly ever will admit she is wrong. She is compelled to convince you she is right, did the best she could, has good intentions, etc... .Her goal is approval. She is terrified of being wrong.  She manipulates by being defensive and being a victim. Arguments get nowhere becaude no matter how politely you make your point she either a.) assumes you are now over it because you were polite or b.) Cries that it hurts her feelings. She writes pages and pages, using tons of quotes or rabbit trail type stories to gain sympathy.

My bottom line issues with our relationship is how she needs more time, intimacy and approval than I can give.

Also there are lifestyle issues; enabling my drug addicted brother. Financial crises, including borrowing almost all of my grandmother's money and borrowing from everyone she knows with no hope of repayment. Supporting my father who refuses to pay taxes, has a felony and federal prison time from this and is currently trying to file papers to become a legal alien so he doesn't have to pay taxes.

She is also a Licenced Clinical Counselor who specializes in sexual addiction. So she is the "expert" we all have to bow doen to. She also is COMPELLED to share, in minute detail, her client interaction... .even with my young children present.

My relationship with her, up until about 8 years ago has been to be her #1 supporter. If we do things her way we can all get along. She isn't one to keep changing expectations, but playing by all her rules is exhausting and not satisfying. Even after the veil of perfect mommy fell, it has taken many baby steps over the years to bring me to a point of saying enough i enough, i cannot be codependent with you anymore. I have been in individual counseling for 9 months becuse of the huge crisis of my brother's most recent relapse and the confrontation my other siblings and I had with my parents over it. I am thankful for the growth I have made as a person, but the constand accusations of dishonor, shunning and group control psychology are draining.

I don't desire to cut her off completely, but she won't budge from her posisition and the separation is the result of how awkward we all are now with huge unsettled issues. She takes no responsibility for the issues and talks to everyone we know in common with her sob story.

Is there hope that over time she will actually start to hear me, or am I best to cut my losses and move on?

[Naughty Nibbler]

Welcome MRWTN1978:   

I'm so sorry about the difficulty with your mom.  The situation sounds exhausting and frustrating.

Unfortunately, we can't change others, only the way we interact and react.  The links below lead to some specific information that will likely be helpful.  Working through FOG (fear, obligation and guilt), setting firm boundaries and employing some validation and communication skills can make things better for you.  The information below can get you started with some basic tools.

FOG - DEALING WITH FEAR, OBLIGATION AND GUILT

SETTING  BOUNDARIES

COMMUNICATIONS OVERIVEW

VALIDATION

Validation (or minimally not being invalidating), can be a productive tool to use.  It doesn't mean that you agree with your mom's position, just that you acknowledge her feelings.

She manipulates by being defensive and being a victim. Arguments get nowhere because no matter how politely you make your point, she either a.) assumes you are now over it because you were polite or b.) Cries that it hurts her feelings

The two threads below can be helpful for you to avoid arguments and drama.  At the end of the article on the Karpman Drama Triangle, there is information about healthy communication triangles.

AVOIDING CIRCULAR ARGUMENTS
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=118892.0;all

KARPMAN DRAMA TRIANGLE
https://bpdfamily.com/content/karpman-drama-triangle

My bottom line issues with our relationship is how she needs more time, intimacy and approval than I can give.

Does your mom have her own therapist?  Do you think that she has been using you as her personal therapist?  Setting some firm boundaries can be helpful for you.  Perhaps your therapist can help you in developing healthy boundaries for you and ways you can enforce them with your mom.  You mom won't agree with them, but it may prompt her to seek her own therapy.

I'm glad that you are getting your own therapy.  It can be an opportunity for you to check out some of the tutorials and communication techniques and perhaps have discussions during your therapy sessions.  It can be very valuable to discuss strategy during a session and apply specifics to your situation and perhaps gain your therapist's input on tailoring some skills to your specific circumstances.

Check out some of the tools and let us know what your think.  Take it a step at a time, a tool at a time.  I've found it helpful to bookmark some of the lessons as I discover them, that way it's easier to go back to them.

[Mutt]

Hi MRWTN1978,



I'm sorry to hear that. I'd like to join   Naughty Nibbler and welcome you. It must difficult for you when your mother invalidates you  because of her self absortion, I mean you have your feelings about her, your brother and your dad?

Everyone wants to be heard but when someone invalidates you, they're not listening to you because they're talking about their own stuff. You know your mom better than anyone on this board, she rescues your brother with money that she'll likely not repay, does she give you any indication that she can self reflect on her own actions and how they impact others?

I'm not saying that if you're not introspective that you can't change. I know my dad is very rigid with his thought patterns and I think he's scared that he'll fall apart if he starts working on his unresolved issues, you can stuff things down for a long time but it has its way of coming out, look at how she deals with her feelings? She puts that out on everyone else because she doesn't know how to deal with them.

That being said, you're not responsible for somone else's feelingsm your mom has to sooth herself. It can seem tough at the beginning when you start setting boundaries and you get backlash from family members but it lasts only for so long. You know what? You don't have to go through this alone because you can come back here an share those and feelings and thoughts  without being invalidate for having them. That's what we do   You're not alone.

[MrWtn1978]

Thanks for the response and resource links Naughty Nibbler!

Does your mom have her own therapist?  Do you think that she has been using you as her personal therapist?  Setting some firm boundaries can be helpful for you.  Perhaps your therapist can help you in developing healthy boundaries for you and ways you can enforce them with your mom.  You mom won't agree with them, but it may prompt her to seek her own therapy.

No, my mom does not have her own therapist at the moment.  She brags about having used 17 in the past.  She used to go to Al-anon, but has not been since receiving her LLC credentials.  You hit the nail on the head about her using me as a therapist.  I know way more about all her fights with my dad, and every other family member, church member, friend, etc... .then I EVER wanted to know.  I truly thought I could help her - as she claimed it was helpful - for years.  But after a while I realized I could not help her and listening was validating her and I couldn't do it anymore.

Thankfully I do have strong boundaries with her.  I have written them out so they are clear.  She complains to others that they hurt her feelings and she can't respond to them.  When she does write it is only about her issues and not addressing mine.  I just want to stop all communication, but the FOG takes over and I feel like I need to be sure I have covered all my bases.  Validating her when I have done wrong, letting her know I do love her, but restating boundaries.  Right now the big boundary is no face to face contact until we can solve some issues by writing.  That is interpreted as shunning, keeping her away from grandchildren, disrespectful, etc... .  I just have to keep telling myself that it is not my fault.  She will never be happy unless I return to my role of best friend #1 supporter and counselor.  And that will never happen.  I guess I wonder if trying to correspond and work out issues is even worth it.  The realization that she is not a logical person is a tough thing to swallow.  She can sound so lucid and eloquent!  You really start to believe her when you listen to her arguments and pain. 

I'm glad that you are getting your own therapy.  It can be an opportunity for you to check out some of the tutorials and communication techniques and perhaps have discussions during your therapy sessions.  It can be very valuable to discuss strategy during a session and apply specifics to your situation and perhaps gain your therapist's input on tailoring some skills to your specific circumstances.

True.  She spent 3 months ignoring me after my last letter setting boundaries, so we have been focusing on other things for a while.

Check out some of the tools and let us know what your think.  Take it a step at a time, a tool at a time.  I've found it helpful to bookmark some of the lessons as I discover them, that way it's easier to go back to them.



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[MrWtn1978]

Thanks for the welcome!

Everyone wants to be heard but when someone invalidates you, they're not listening to you because they're talking about their own stuff. You know your mom better than anyone on this board, she rescues your brother with money that she'll likely not repay, does she give you any indication that she can self reflect on her own actions and how they impact others?

No, she has a huge lack of empathy.  She says she does, and for years I believed it, but she is a master manipulator of words and can apologize and negate it in a quick paragraph.  Her thoughts now are: I have cried about this the most, so since I have been hurt the most, I must be the one in the right.  She is correct in the crying the most about it part... .because it has seriously been a relief to have almost no contact in the last 9 months.  But she refuses to believe she has done ANYTHING to contribute.

I'm not saying that if you're not introspective that you can't change. I know my dad is very rigid with his thought patterns and I think he's scared that he'll fall apart if he starts working on his unresolved issues, you can stuff things down for a long time but it has its way of coming out, look at how she deals with her feelings? She puts that out on everyone else because she doesn't know how to deal with them.

So true.  In group therapy she talks about how her husband and son have hurt her, but not about what her personal issues are.  She has problems because of them.  And now she has problems because of me.  I was definitely the "golden child" to her and the thought that I don't support her 100% is devastating!

That being said, you're not responsible for somone else's feelingsm your mom has to sooth herself. It can seem tough at the beginning when you start setting boundaries and you get backlash from family members but it lasts only for so long. You know what? You don't have to go through this alone because you can come back here an share those and feelings and thoughts  without being invalidate for having them. That's what we do   You're not alone.
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Thanks!  Fortunately most of my family members are 100% supportive of me.