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VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
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Recovering480
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« on: December 07, 2016, 09:35:23 AM »

After a flurry of texts of Monday afternoon, I just stopped responding. I dont know if she is looking for closure, forgiveness, etc. It was really messing me up.

Saw my counselor yesterday and filled her in on the past month. She just shook her head and said this was some of the most atrocious behavior she had ever heard. She asked me, repeatedly, why did you put up with it? "You were a doormat." I tried to explain the addiction aspect, etc. She understood. She wants me to send her a text that says "Our interaction is hurting me. Please do not contact me again."

I balked. Counselor encouraged me "You know you're not unique. She has said the same things to other guys, future guys, that she said to you.  She is a master manipulator and this is a game you will never win. Take back your power, heal and in two weeks, you'll look back and laugh."

She told me that every time she texts, she's planting a hook. She wants to see if I react. She thrives on drama. She said the only reason she blocked me on FB was because she wanted a reaction.

I can't do it. She knows it. I dont know why. I think a part of it is the attention. If/when she texts me, I know she is still thinking of me and after all the nonsense, it makes me feel good. Messed up, isnt it? I'm also a people pleaser and I hate "hurting" people. I also dont want a series of texts in response. We decided that I would just simply ignore everything and she made me promise that I would.

Day 2 of NC.

On a side note: someone added me as a friend on FB a month ago. I never accepted. Attractive too. I knew my ex was watching my FB like a hawk, so once I was blocked, I went back and added everyone (reasonably) who had requested me. Last night, she started messaging me. It was very much like how my ex had done this. We were talking, she told me that I was very good looking, etc. etc. She admitted she had been drinking wine and finally decided to message me. Red flags were going off everywhere. It was nice to get the attention, but I've learned that when things like this happen, take it with a grain of salt. Chalking it up to wine, I went to bed. This morning, another of series of texts: been looking at your profile all morning, you're gorgeous, so glad I messaged you, etc., etc. My ex wasnt so blatant, but she did stalk me on FB for a while and then started messaging me.

On another note: I woke up this morning, grateful to be in my own bed. I was spending 4-5 nights a week at my ex's. She had me leave my clothes in the kitchen because my dressing made "too much noise". I literally had to sneak out after a quick kiss on the forehead. I'd be driving home, exhausted. She never spent the night because she was obsessed with how much dog hair there is in my house. Once she did and it was because she had been drinking. It was all a power trip with her. See how much I was able to do.

So, I have moments of sadness. Thankfully, work is busy and I'm occupied. Then the gym for needed therapy. But I have moments when I look back and realize just how miserable I was.

Anyone else in same boat with therapy? What about "potential" new partners with red flags? Am I just being super-sensitive due to my experience?
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fromheeltoheal
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« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2016, 10:10:27 AM »

She wants me to send her a text that says "Our interaction is hurting me. Please do not contact me again."

It depends on what the goal is Recovering.  A borderline who has been left will feel abandoned, regardless of what the circumstances actually were, and the flurry of texts is an extinction burst, a panic of sorts in the face of that abandonment, and those tend to burn themselves out.  And attachments being everything to borderlines, she will look for an emotional attachment in any communication you have, so telling her that she's hurting you is not the best course, best to just leave it at "please do not contact me again" with no explanation beyond that.

I know that is hard to do, and that you consider it hurting her.  Selfishness gets a bad rap, but really, if we don't take care of ourselves first, we have nothing to give yes?  A borderlines tend to be depleting with all their needs, so instead of focusing on her needs and feelings, if you were to focus on yours for a minute, what's the best thing to do?

Excerpt
"You know you're not unique. She has said the same things to other guys, future guys, that she said to you.  She is a master manipulator and this is a game you will never win. Take back your power, heal and in two weeks, you'll look back and laugh."

Borderlines may be manipulative, because they have to be due to the need to attach and don't consider being straightforward "good enough", but you should decide if "master manipulator" really fits your ex, and the game she's playing is survival, the only way she knows how, not really a game.

I don't know how long your relationship was, but two weeks is pretty short, I don't know if that's realistic and it takes what it takes, but not communicating with your ex and going to the gym are good moves if you're trying to detach and move on, good for you, and hang in there!
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Hisaccount
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« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2016, 10:13:30 AM »

"Our interaction is hurting me. Please do not contact me again."

I can't do it. She knows it. I dont know why. I think a part of it is the attention. If/when she texts me, I know she is still thinking of me and after all the nonsense, it makes me feel good. Messed up, isnt it? I'm also a people pleaser and I hate "hurting" people. I also dont want a series of texts in response.


Anyone else in same boat with therapy? What about "potential" new partners with red flags? Am I just being super-sensitive due to my experience?

Dude, I so feel for you. I get it.
I have the same problem,  our interaction is hurting me. I can't stop it. Every time I start that conversation by the end of it I am saying okay you are right, let's be friends then.

I still love her, heck i want her back, but that isn't good for me and it isn't good for you either.
I don't want to hurt her because if you are like me you know it may be enough to push her over the edge and we know what that could mean.

But this is part of the process, one day I hope we can be strong enough to stand up for ourselves and let go.

Gotta tell you about red flags.
So I know I am in no condition to date, but I started dating. It is a great distraction and it is not like you are going to start a relationship with most of the women you date anyway, but for me it lets me know that I will be okay. I will be able to find someone that will have my back forever.
Anyway, so this gal I met for drinks last night. Right off the bat she orders a very hard drink. First red flag?
We are talking and laughing having a great time. The conversation turns to ex's. I told her mine has BPD. She starts laughing and says, I have BPD. I froze.
She says, are you okay? I told her that I am simply trying very hard to find some reason to not get up and walk away right now.
She says, it's okay I am on meds and being treated.
I said, I already know too much that doesn't convince me to stay.
So she did go on to talk to me about it a lot and I will say it was nice to hear it from someone who recognizes what it is and can say what it is like to live with it but no, there will be no second date.
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Recovering480
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« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2016, 10:21:55 AM »


Borderlines may be manipulative, because they have to be due to the need to attach and don't consider being straightforward "good enough", but you should decide if "master manipulator" really fits your ex, and the game she's playing is survival, the only way she knows how, not really a game.


What I like about your reply is that it is compassionate. I'm trying to see her as someone who has reacted out of survival. I know her child's father did a number on her. He still does. Thank you for putting the "human" back into this. It is a mental illness and I've always been supportive and sympathetic for people suffering. It's hard to when it's hurting you. Thank you.
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Recovering480
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« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2016, 10:26:08 AM »


Gotta tell you about red flags.
So I know I am in no condition to date, but I started dating. It is a great distraction and it is not like you are going to start a relationship with most of the women you date anyway, but for me it lets me know that I will be okay. I will be able to find someone that will have my back forever.
Anyway, so this gal I met for drinks last night. Right off the bat she orders a very hard drink. First red flag?
We are talking and laughing having a great time. The conversation turns to ex's. I told her mine has BPD. She starts laughing and says, I have BPD. I froze.
She says, are you okay? I told her that I am simply trying very hard to find some reason to not get up and walk away right now.
She says, it's okay I am on meds and being treated.
I said, I already know too much that doesn't convince me to stay.
So she did go on to talk to me about it a lot and I will say it was nice to hear it from someone who recognizes what it is and can say what it is like to live with it but no, there will be no second date.

Wow. I'm supposed to be meeting this one tomorrow. I'll see how it goes. But as for you, my friend. Wow. Good for you. I guess the temptation would be "well, she's on meds and she KNOWS she has it", let's see how it goes   But yeah. I dont know. Once bitten, twice shy.
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Hisaccount
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« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2016, 10:39:49 AM »

"well, she's on meds and she KNOWS she has it", let's see how it goes   But yeah. I dont know. Once bitten, twice shy.

Gotta tell ya, all kinds of thoughts went though my mind. The crazy wild sex for one. LOL And she has the "I must look awesome to attract" down pretty good.
We also had a lot of fun with it, when it was time to leave I was not thinking hugs or anything and she looks at me and says you need to at least give me a hug, my BPD means I am supposed to be the one giving you the cold shoulder. LOL

She just flat out said I am never getting married again but we understand why now LOL

Good luck, get out there. If you can escape your own life for even an hour it is worth it.
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Julia S
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« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2016, 10:50:11 AM »

I don't understand how you can still be so deeply involved with one person that you need to be seeing a counsellor, yet actively dating others, and even contemplating seeing someone again when they also have BPD. Can you not take some time out and be with trusted long term normal friends? I think that adapting your life to the needs of a BPD person, particularly in a relationship, can make you begin to see that as normal, and that is very dangerous. You maybe need to remind yourself what normal is, by being around people who are, rather than rush headlong into a rebound relationship that is either similarly destructive for you or unfair on the other person.

I would also be careful of advice unless the counsellor has good knowledge and experience of personality disorders. If you are trying to maintain a relationship, then saying aspects of their behaviour are hurtful to you would be reasonable. But if you have split up it is surely only feeding their continued control over you. It might be better to say: I'm sorry but I'm very busy and don't have time to read or reply to all your texts. Admitting to them that they're getting to you is a fail for you and a win for them.  
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Recovering480
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« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2016, 11:54:27 AM »

I don't understand how you can still be so deeply involved with one person that you need to be seeing a counsellor, yet actively dating others, and even contemplating seeing someone again when they also have BPD.


First of all, I've been seeing a counselor since well before this incident. Second, I have no idea if this girl I was talking to has BPD. Emphasis on "talking". I might see her tomorrow. I might not. I'm not ready to be in a relationship, but I do think I can least be making new friends.
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« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2016, 01:21:34 PM »

First of all, I've been seeing a counselor since well before this incident. Second, I have no idea if this girl I was talking to has BPD. Emphasis on "talking". I might see her tomorrow. I might not. I'm not ready to be in a relationship, but I do think I can least be making new friends.

I agree Recov! Get out there, meet new people, BE CAREFUL! Smiling (click to insert in post)
It's a difficult time for you ( i am in the same place as well, kind of ).
Going to the gym and keeping yourself busy is good! But also to meet new people, even just to flirt, is invigorating and can cut some of the empty Sadness and sorrow we feel out, for just a brief moment.

At least it is like that for me...

- Hisaccount
I understand you were hesitant when interacting with this BPD girl/woman you were out with, also to you, BE CAREFUL! We (at least i ) are very fragile atm.

Best wishes to both of you ! be strong and heal,

- Broken
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Hisaccount
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« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2016, 02:11:58 PM »

I don't understand how you can still be so deeply involved with one person that you need to be seeing a counsellor, yet actively dating others, and even contemplating seeing someone again when they also have BPD. Can you not take some time out and be with trusted long term normal friends?.  

I too have been seeing a counselor and going to support classes for co-dependency which is kind of ironic calling it a support class.

I don't know about the other guys but for me you have to understand I have NO friends, none. For 10 years, actually the whole 13 we were together she was so controlling that I had to shut everyone out of my life just to deal with her. Everyone.
I have no support system in place.

You sound judgemental or at least that is the way I took it, but please consider we are just trying to survive. I am trying to get through the day without killing myself. If that means dating women I am in no way shape or form ready to have a relationship with then so be it (counselor approved)
I am not looking for anything from these women except letting me buy them dinner and maybe some smiles and laughs. I am very honest and up front about that.
Yes I am still deeply involved with my ex. In my head. So much so that I need help detaching.

In one day I lost my best friend, lover, and wife. No she didn't die, its worse than that, she just gave up on me.

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Recovering480
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« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2016, 02:23:28 PM »

Hisaccount, I was one of the lucky ones. While I stopped seeing my male friends because I was so busy with my ex, I did cut ALL contact with my female friends because it prevented conflict. Are there places you can go to meet folks? Work? Some sort of club (like a walking club or one that caters to an interest)?

When I finally reached out to my friends (and I hope you experience this), told them what happened, it was an outpour of support.

We dont talk about emotional/verbal abuse when a male experiences it for a lot of different reasons. How many times did she say "Ok, I'll stop being mean since you're being a little b***h about it"? A lot. I couldnt even tell her I was hurt by her words half the time. And this was a woman I thought I loved and loved me back.

I'm glad you are seeing a counselor and going to classes. And I'm glad you have something to help with depression. Please, please be careful and know that we care.

And I agree with the last statement. No closure, my man. None at all. It was like she died. At least with other relationships, I knew that she felt remorse, she missed me, she thought about me. I dont think my ex is at all. She's twisted the story around and thinks we didnt have enough sober time. Which is ironic because she spent the last 2 weeks of our relationship getting wasted (and I was never there). But I know I can't tell her that... .

Keep doing what you're doing.
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Hisaccount
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« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2016, 02:33:18 PM »

Hisaccount, I was one of the lucky ones. While I stopped seeing my male friends because I was so busy with my ex, I did cut ALL contact with my female friends because it prevented conflict. Are there places you can go to meet folks? Work? Some sort of club (like a walking club or one that caters to an interest)?



You guys have been awesome and I appreciate you.
For me the only "friends" I have are people from work. I have been here 23 years I am in a position of management. I can't share with them anything about my life. So I feel a little trapped, but I understand what you are saying and thank you.
Wife and I shared the same interests so those places are off limits to me now.
So I am looking for new and I have no idea what that is yet.

It would be easier if she had died.
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Recovering480
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« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2016, 03:07:34 PM »

Are you in a big city? I understand. I've been avoiding places. But found some places that I know she wont go to. For example, I go to a little dive bar to watch my team play. Food is good, servers are friendly. I used to hate going somewhere by myself. Now I dont care. It gets me out of the house.

I cant begin to tell you how many matinees I've been to (recent movie advice  ) by myself.

I dont care. My city is pretty small, but after living here for 20 years, I know where I can go.

I even thought about moving. But I won't. That's too much power.
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Hisaccount
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« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2016, 03:19:28 PM »

I live in a big enough city but being here so long, my job, the ex's job we run into people we know all the time.
I agree I don't care like that, my problem is I withdraw and just work, Many days I work from 7am to 9:45 pm. Go home, grab a beer and a shower and go to bed. Actually that is everyday, 7 days a week unless I have class or a date.
Counselor is the one that is forcing me out. I don't eat right, I am losing weight like crazy. He thought dinner dates would get me to eat again.

I just don't want to do anything. I am sure you know the feeling.

My son who was working with me is moving away this weekend with his wife and my grand kids. Everyday I think about just walking away from everything and getting a fresh start. Let the ex deal with the house and all the stuff in it. All my belongings. Screw it, if I can't carry it on my back I don't need it.
Maybe Alaska, Nobody would ever look for me there.
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Pytagoras
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« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2016, 05:21:08 AM »

Hi Recovery480,

I read your 3 posts and i wrote one named "Amazing coincidences" yesterday related to yours.

pass by and read it if want.
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Recovering480
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« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2016, 09:10:32 AM »

A little bit of a rough night last night. Her daughter used to send me snap chats. A lot. Every once in a while. Usually when my ex was in a meeting. She stopped doing this a few weeks ago. I understood why. I had developed a relationship with the child though in retrospect, I can see that she has some issues. That's neither here nor there.

Last night, I started getting a series of snap chats. I didnt want to open them. In the past, they were videos and I could hear my ex in the background. One time, I heard her having a conversation with another guy and it killed me. She told me it was a meeting with a client. I left it alone.

I didnt want to open them last night because I didnt want to see/hear what my ex was doing in the background. But at the same time, I did.

I finally opened them. It was the usual funny faces etc. They were in a salon and my ex was getting her hair done. That was it. Nothing sketchy.

I was glad her daughter finally reached out. I've missed her. But at the same time, I dont want to know anything.
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Recovering480
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« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2016, 09:14:39 AM »


Counselor is the one that is forcing me out. I don't eat right, I am losing weight like crazy. He thought dinner dates would get me to eat again.

I just don't want to do anything. I am sure you know the feeling.


I do know the feeling. But every day, I force myself to do something. And yes, eating. I lost at least 20 lbs over this. It's scary. Do you smoke? I ask because it's an appetite suppressant. I was smoking like a fiend and wasnt eating. I've been trying to cut back and forcing myself to eat. The more I work, the more I'm hungry. That helps.

I eat more when I'm with friends and preoccupied. Last Sunday, I couldnt believe how much I ate. I was in a good. Optimistic. And ate a lot. It's when I'm by myself that I'll skip a meal.

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« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2016, 09:42:43 AM »

So, did you go meet someone last night? how did it go? Come on man details. LOL

I do not smoke, I just don't care to eat.



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Recovering480
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« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2016, 12:44:58 PM »

No, its tonight. She called me last night. More red flags. She had been drinking and kept telling me how beautiful I am. She hasnt even met me. She admitted she had been stalking my FB profile and knows a lot about me.

It feels like the initial idolization stage. My ex did the same thing.

I'll see how it goes and keep you posted.

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Recovering480
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« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2016, 09:28:34 AM »

It wasn't bad. I actually had a good time. For a few hours, I wasn't thinking about my ex. I didn't see any red flags. She only had two drinks and we mostly talked. I felt like I could be "myself" which was nice. I wasn't guarded about saying anything that would upset her or bite me on the backside this morning. She did keep telling me how good looking I was, which does make me nervous.

Ex texted me last night. Just asked how I was and if I was at the gym. I waited a bit before replying, saying yes, I was. No reply. I don't know if she was reaching out to see what I was doing. Or if she was drinking and thinking about me. Or still feels remorse and wants to ensure I'll still talk. My counselor said she is just checking to see if she can keep her hooks in me. Too many questions, too much energy can be expended trying to figure them out.

I was thinking last night how nice it is to have a conversation with someone. My ex would just talk and talk and talk. If I tried to talk about work, she would later tell me that's all I talk about and that I complain too much and a "real man" would keep quiet and just deal. So when she was going on and on and on, I had to sit there, like an actor, and show zero emotion. I couldnt yawn, look around. Smile and nod, show interest even though I was bored out of my mind. Ironic thing is when I stopped talking about work, she accused me of being lazy and having no drive. I told her once I stopped talking about work because she tuned me out. Or lectured me.

My copy of "Stop Caretaking" came in last night. But I'm just getting tired of reading and trying to figure her out. I'll still read it of course.
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« Reply #20 on: December 09, 2016, 11:00:45 AM »

It wasn't bad. I actually had a good time. For a few hours, I wasn't thinking about my ex.

That is freaking awesome. I am so happy for you. That is exactly what I am doing, just escaping, it helps to realize that the way we were treated, it isn't supposed to be that way.
The PTSD of worrying about what you will get in trouble for I still have that everyday. Like Oh God don't Yawn, don't talk about yourself, don't be nice to the cute waitress.

I had a co woker who doesn't know about the divorce of BPD drag me out for a drink last night. No idea why I went but he and his wife, we talked and had a great time. It was so nice to feel normal.
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Recovering480
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« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2016, 11:45:09 AM »


I had a co woker who doesn't know about the divorce of BPD drag me out for a drink last night. No idea why I went but he and his wife, we talked and had a great time. It was so nice to feel normal.

I hope you ate too Smiling (click to insert in post)

Thanks Hisaccount. That was exactly it. That realization that this is how a "normal conversation" goes and I'm allowed to be myself. It was refreshing. And needed. When I finally introduced my ex to my friends, I was on edge. Sometimes she would get angry about something and then send me a flurry of texts, while I was sitting there, about how she is over how I treat her in public. I'd be dumbfounded. But when we were out, I was on edge. I wasn't myself. Funny thing is we were at a concert and watched this couple interact. The man basically said he was getting a beer and walked away. My ex said she wished I would treat her that way, show her who's boss. I said right, you'd freak out if I did that. And this was a rarity, she laughed and said no, she wouldn't.

Thing is, she would.  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) Sadly, I got really good at predicting her behavior.

Glad you had a good night last night as well. One day at a time.
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« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2016, 11:54:49 AM »



Thing is, she would.  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) Sadly, I got really good at predicting her behavior.



Me too, Before BPD I called it a chess match. If I could not predict her next 5 or 6 responses then I wasn't ready to engage in any particular topic.
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« Reply #23 on: December 09, 2016, 12:01:42 PM »

The thing is that i thing they really like when one guy is the boss and give them orders. They like to be comanded. Make's them feel secure. But they allways test you to the limit. They always rage against that.
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Recovering480
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« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2016, 05:11:10 PM »

Well, she texted me an hour ago. Wanting to know what my plans were tonight. Then asked me to an office party I was supposed to go with her when we were together.

It's in two hours.

She called, texted again. I said I was in a meeting. She said she needed to know ASAP as a "friend" was going with her and she would need to cancel with "them" (non gender, nice).

I havent responded yet. I just dont understand. I've been dreading tonight because I dont want to see any nonsense tomorrow on social media. I want to know who this friend is, but I dont. I'm irritated that I havent spoken to her in three weeks (verbally), yet she asks me out with hours notice.

Its a power play. She wants to see how far she can push me. Which is bizarre because we've hardly spoken. Who would do that?

I hate how this makes me feel. I feel the pull, but I'm irritated.

Suggestions?
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Pytagoras
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Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 171



« Reply #25 on: December 10, 2016, 07:12:36 AM »

My friend,

As soon as you REALLY decide what you want for your life, the situation is solved.

If you really start caring and loving yourself and put yourself in first place (that's really your first responsability in your life), you start feeling like you don't deserve this kind of treatment.

And if you really decide to move on (you haven't done it yet, altough you are struggling, just like me right now), she will sense it, and she will try everything to get you back. Now, she is just teasing and checking if you are still available.

That's really your choice to make.
Smiling (click to insert in post)
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