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Author Topic: My head is spinning  (Read 1243 times)
Jessica84
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« on: December 14, 2016, 09:08:22 PM »

Last night my BF asked me about taking a trip at the end of the year, asked me to look up rates. I gave him info tonight. He said "I don't know. 5 days? We might be sick of each other by the 2nd day. We've been arguing so much lately".

Feelings = facts? We haven't been arguing "so much". We had 2 spats this month where he got rude, and I left. I reminded him we had a few bad days a few weeks ago and I'm sorry that happened... .and he said "well in my mind, it seems more and more lately."

Me: Ok. I know things haven't been easy. And I hope you're not still mad at--

Him (screaming): "GODDA--IT! I don't want you to take this the wrong way, but I don't think about YOU AT ALL! I'm not sitting here worrying about YOU or US all the time! I've been fighting depression in case you haven't noticed! I hate it! I don't want to call the g-d doctor and get on another g-d med! Just because I don't call to whine about it, doesn't mean I'm not fighting it. So sorry! But no! I don't sit around thinking about YOU or our relationship! I know I'm shouting, and I'm not trying to sound angry or fight with you, but the last few weeks have been rough!"

Me: (silent because WOW. What way was I supposed to take that?)

Him: I don't feel like working. I'm sick of my clients. I don't feel like socializing. These are CLUES! Clues that I am DEPRESSED and I HATE IT!

Me: I'm sorry--

Him: Stop saying I'm sorry!

Me: I wasn't apologizing. Saying sorry that your depression is this bad. I know it must be hard, and I'm not trying to fight with you. I'm trying to be supportive. I thought this trip might give you something to look forward to?

Him: YEAH. It does. It was ME who suggested it, REMEMBER? DO YOU REMEMBER THAT?

Me: Yes, and you asked me to look up rates. So I did. Could be fun. After the stressful month you've had, it might be nice to get away. Remember how much fun we had last time? But I don't have to book anything right now. Do you want to think about it?

He managed to calm down, apologized for shouting, shared a bunch of things that have been going wrong at work, and by the end of the call he was looking forward to going on the trip and asked me to book it. So I did. Then he added "If I'm too depressed to go, you can take someone else." I told him I added trip insurance so we could cancel no problem. And that I wouldn't go with anyone else.

But now I'm thinking... .what have I done? His mood swings are off the charts! Either he's cold and distant or a raging bull. Last night he was pleasant. So who knows who I'll get from day to day? When will this end? Man, I just... don't... know... .my head is still spinning.
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« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2016, 09:54:17 PM »

I am sorry to say it but your life together will be just like that.
Without a proper diagnosis and treatment it will never get better and never change it will only get wors
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Jessica84
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« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2016, 10:52:09 PM »

I cannot believe that. Not because I'm in denial, but because I have seen changes in him. He and our r/s have improved in the last few years - it's been relatively smooth for awhile. He still has his moments, but nothing like this. His erratic moods/behaviors are a sudden shift from where he was just a few weeks ago.
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« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2016, 08:05:48 AM »

Hi Jessica,
Do you think it could be related to SAD (Seasonal Affective Disorder)? If so, going someplace where he can be outside in the sunshine would really help. My P suggested I get my husband one of those full spectrum lights for his recent depression. She has seen how much light therapy helps.

And then there are the holidays--lots of triggers for even emotionally healthy people.

In the meantime, can you get him outdoors, doing something physical? What I notice with my husband is that the depression seems to be also correlated with lack of exercise.

I used to get SAD, but nowadays I'm outdoors even in the worst weather (animals need to be fed twice a day) and I get a lot of exercise walking up and down the hill delivering hay to the various critters. So it's been years since I've felt depressed in winter.

Good luck with the vacation.

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« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2016, 09:45:20 AM »

I cannot believe that. Not because I'm in denial, but because I have seen changes in him.

I am not saying what you see isn't real. I am new to all of this as well. Even now I sit around and talk myself out of believing.
No matter what the case is, if he doesn't seek help it isn't going to change. That holds true in every aspects of our lives.

Just to relate what you saw, I went through the same things. I would see her get better, she would try. She would seem happy, she was nice and spontaneous. It seemed like things were going well. Then something triggered it. A new addiction or a new stress.
If I could take her away for the weekend everything was perfect. It was like it was in the beginning. I would think awesome, fresh start. We get home and she is right back to the same mood swings and treating me like crap. It is shocking how drastic the changes were.
You can argue truth with them but is it worth it? Do you ever win? Or just create more anger?
But if you just let him roll all over you then it will destroy who you are, and your self esteem

There may be treatment that will help him if he is willing to work on it. In the case of my ex, she will not seek help so she will continue to crash and burn and ruin people's lives along the way.

I wish there was an easy answer. You reaching out and seeking help is great for you. He cannot be helped until he is ready.

 
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Jessica84
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« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2016, 10:18:09 AM »

Thanks for the replies. He's too stubborn to get treatment and he's almost 60. S.A.D. is also possible. I bought him 2 of those lamps - he smashed one and lost the other. I'm just going to keep my distance for now, cancel the trip if necessary.
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« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2016, 12:08:19 PM »

Hi there - I have to second SAD as a contributing issue, along with pretty much everything from Halloween to Valentine's seeming to be overwhelming to a pwBPD.

Travel, even travel they want to take, is triggering.  I was so scared for our wedding trip - H had never flown, I'd only done it once, neither of us had ever left the country, and to top it off, we were getting married.  I was so scared he'd blow up and cancel it up to a few hours before we got to the airport.  But miraculously, we made it, and he even wants to try to go back.

I will say that blow ups WILL always be a part of your life.  They may not always be super-bad, super sudden, or super intense, but they WILL happen.  I think of BPD as an emotional handicap.  It helps me to not internalize all the things that can get said, and to not take them to my own heart and be hurt by them.  H cannot manage his emotions a lot of the time.  I may be able at times to head off the runaway cart of emotions, I may not.  He is allowed his emotions, and I am allowed to not accept blame that is not mine for his emotions.  He does not need to know if I am accepting the blame or not - his emotional makeup means he needs to spew his feelings out to the nearest human being, and that usually means me.  His internal monolog does not let him think things over - he needs to state them AT a target.  So it's kinda like the Serenity Prayer - God grant me the serenity to accept the blame I may have caused, the courage to not accept it when I did not, and the wisdom to know the difference.   

For me, all of this is done internally.  I do not talk to H about suspecting BPD.  I do not talk to him about how I am looking for strategies to improve communication or decrease his perceptions of what's an argument.  I can be pleasant all day, and learn he thought I was snapping at him.  And all that matters to him is HIS perception. 

I will also say that the more you learn about this, the more you can distance yourself from what the BPD is saying (when things are super emotional and unreasonable), the more you can deal better with it, and in fact, for us, the more things seemed to even out a bit.  As I worked on my knee-jerk reactions, for years, and tried to get away from the co-dependent thinking I was trained as a child to have, I actually managed to manage myself better, leading to fewer invalidating comments, leading to fewer blow-ups. 

BPD will always be the angry toddler lurking in an adult body, with adult agency and adult ability to act.  But it can be kept from acting out a little bit, and the best thing you can do is realize (like you seem to be doing) when you can respond, when your actions can and can't effect the situation, and that you may need to be ready to be flexible and prepared to cancel if a melt down occurs.  It makes travel planning hard, and as the able-emotioned person, you will shoulder a lot of the load for planning and making sure things are addressed.  This is all part of loving a pwBPD.  I say that not to discourage you, and to let you know tht things CAN improve at times, but that the BPD will always be there, just as much a part of your BF as diabetes or another condition would be, and requires emtoioanl maintenance insteead of insulin.
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« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2016, 12:17:57 PM »

So sorry to hear and thank you for sharing what sounds like a very upsetting and challenging situation.  Frustrating too.

Aptly titled post-- I can related to the "head spinning." I feel like my SO is like a switch. On and off with being "fine." and then "volatile." Even though he will not acknowledge this anger/rage that you also describe.  I wish you peace and hope with time he will want to try a few days away-maybe just a long weekend will be the next best step if 5 days seems "too long."
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Jessica84
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« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2016, 01:24:50 PM »

Thank you all. I'm really grateful for a place to vent - needed to tell someone. Not ready to tell my friends or family yet. If they only knew how violent he sounded, or how bad this shook me.

I haven't seen an episode this bad in years. I learned about BPD 3 years ago. The tools that normally work... .just... .aren't. And haven't for about 3 weeks now. Every other time he calls I get a darker personality than the one before.

I don't know why I booked that trip. I can't travel with him like this. Maybe because he calmed down. Or maybe fear, or shock. I know not to take his words personally... .but... .that felt like a stab wound. After we got off the phone, I felt dizzy and threw up, my chest and head started pounding.
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« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2016, 01:42:43 PM »

Jessica,

It may be that he can't handle the trip at all.  It also may be that until he is on the trip, he will waffle and/or fight it until it is a reality.  H does not like certainties, but also until something IS certain will waffle and vacillate between the absolute best and worst case scenarios for any and every part of the upcoming event.  And he goes through periods where he's been fine, only a little "BPD-ish", to this summer when he got so mad he threw a frozen bag of broccoli at me.  Which made me feel so bad I came here to share.  I've never told anyone how extreme his moods and reactions are.  I know they could not believe it, and would have the knee jerk reaction of telling me to just leave or telling me I am exaggerating.  I got the same when I tried to share about my BPD parents - people just don't like to hear about it, and can't understand it unless they live it, too. 
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« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2016, 02:00:16 PM »

Thank you for the understanding and support. I feel a little better now.

Yes, could be the trip, could be the holidays, could be his finances, could be he's off his meds, could be the weather, could be anything. One thing it is not - is me... .but I feel like he resents or blames me for his predicament. It's like a screw popped loose and the whole machine went flying apart. Jeckyl/Hyde on steroids.
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« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2016, 04:25:30 PM »

  Glad that blew over. (Even if you still have to either go on or cancel the trip, and it could blow up again)

 Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)  good job handling the explosion!
... .that felt like a stab wound. After we got off the phone, I felt dizzy and threw up, my chest and head started pounding.

Even though it shook you that badly, you handled it amazingly well.

I read the conversation you described, I can't see any place where you forgot your tools and did anything that made it worse.

Knowing that you can weather the storms is better than not having any.
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Jessica84
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« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2016, 01:25:41 AM »

Thanks Grey Kitty. Whatever tools I managed were on sheer auto-pilot. My anxiety seemed to wait til the call ended before it finally kicked in and made me physically sick.

I don't know that anything has blown over yet. I'm weathering the storm, but the sky still looks ominous.

He got mad and hung up on me today - unprovoked. Tonight he showed up at our work party (even though he said all week he wasn't going). This was a large crowd so I was mostly able to steer clear of him - and he didn't stay long. When he came over to tell me goodbye, he gave me a weak hug with no eye contact. I have to admit, I felt safer with all those people around. He put on his game face and blended in well - almost like a regular guy - just one who happens to hate me right now.
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« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2016, 06:16:44 AM »

Hi Jessica,

I think the feeling you felt is something to pay attention to. It is your self talking to you- this is how you feel in the presence of your BF. Don't ignore that.

Do you keep a diary of your feelings? I think it could help for you to see if there is a pattern to his behavior or a trend to your feelings about this.

I have found with BPD that when things are good, I tend to almost have amnesia about the times they were not. I think also many of us tend to not feel our feelings, or let the good part take away the other feelings. I think the pattern of how a pwBPD wants to resolve things- to basically forget about what happened influences us to do this too. When things are good- we tend to have hope that things are better for the long run. I think we can make improvements in our relationships but it is probably circular more than linear. There are still high and low points- but the low points affect us less and when we don't add to the drama- can feel shorter- at least to us.

But unless a person does some serious work to change ( treatment, counseling) they are still going to have BPD. This means some good times, some bad times and it seems unpredictable. While they tend to find an external reason or stress to cause it- how they react- what meaning they make out of the "reason" is intrinsic to them- it may make no sense to us - we can't read minds.

Making plans to do something together has been a stress in my marriage. I recall sitting at the computer looking at choices and things not going well. I don't know why. There have been blow ups over plans. I've often gone along with his choices just to avoid an argument. ( they have been nice places or events too). One thing I have noticed when we do make plans is that my H is really anxious in an unfamiliar setting. Being invited to social occasions where he doesn't know everyone is often followed by a lot of questions- who is there, what to wear. Some of these questions I don't know the answer to. Or if I try to answer and things turn out different, I get accused of withholding information on purpose ( why would I do that?).

One result of this is that, we as a couple, are more socially isolated. I also avoid making plans- and he even says he misses that we don't do more fun things. But I've gotten accustomed to not getting into these situations. When things do start to go downhill when making plans, I often just stop the conversation. But this may be reinforcing - if the plans are the source of anxiety. To some extent- they have worked- as we rarely go places or socialize. He seems more content when we don't. As the kids have gotten older- I do more things on my own.
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« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2016, 09:47:54 AM »

Hi Jessica,
Sometimes when my husband is extremely anxious/depressed/upset, if he just comes into my space--maybe I've been happily emailing a friend or peacefully working out--I can immediately absorb his anxious mood. It's on an animal level, no words need to be spoken, I'm like a psychic sponge, soaking up his negativity. Often it happens before I realize it. My only protection at these times is to become aware of my breath and breathe deeply and tell myself that those are his feelings and I have a choice as to what I want to experience. When I think of it that way, no way do I want to share the bitter soup of his anxiety.

Other times I can be wearing my protective armor, feeling at peace with myself, watching the emotional assault from a safe internal place. Then he might accuse me of being "distant," "self-absorbed," "aloof," etc.

I'm now realizing that my Aspergers has had a great protective value for me throughout a lifetime of emotional manipulation by people with BPD. Instead of fighting to be perceived as more "normal", I'm starting to embrace my eccentricity and realizing that I don't have to immediately answer his questions with a fully thought-out response (he doesn't expect that of himself--yet he has had that expectation of me). I'm also giving myself permission to slow down--my speech, my replies, and pay attention to my feelings. (This greatly offsets the anxiety he can induce in me through his frenetic words and behavior).

In addition, I'm giving myself permission to just observe. I'm familiar with this modality from when I worked as a reporter.

I don't know if any of my thoughts here are relevant to your situation, but I'll close with one idea that's been helpful to me over the years:

The person who asks the questions controls the dialog.

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« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2016, 02:17:43 PM »

Thank you for sharing your stories and input! It really, really helps.   

I have found with BPD that when things are good, I tend to almost have amnesia about the times they were not. I think also many of us tend to not feel our feelings, or let the good part take away the other feelings. I think the pattern of how a pwBPD wants to resolve things- to basically forget about what happened influences us to do this too.

I have definitely adopted his way of resolving a conflict - to forget about it and move on. But rather than "forget" externally just to avoid further conflict, I also work to let it go internally so there's no resentment on the inside. Meditation works sometimes. Distraction works every time (work, hobbies, friends, reading, chores etc). I'm not so good at sitting with my feelings. I don't feel I stuff them down - I just tend to overthink and ruminate. Then I lose all objectivity and my anxiety goes haywire. Staying active helps control that. Sitting still and thinking/feeling keeps me stuck in the muck.

I think we can make improvements in our relationships but it is probably circular more than linear.

Good point. I do caught in the trap of thinking the past won't circle back like a boomerang. I try not to live in the past. Or in the future. I try to live in the moment. I'd like to fully forgive the past and move forward, without any fear or anxiety. But because he tends to regress and repeat old patterns, I keep re-living the past, then start worrying about the future. Hard to stay present and mindful like this!

Other times I can be wearing my protective armor, feeling at peace with myself, watching the emotional assault from a safe internal place.

This is where I am most of the time. At peace watching a sad, angry little toddler act out. It's when that toddler turns into Chucky and gets possessed by demons that my armor starts to crumble!
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« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2016, 06:54:24 PM »

I think mindfulness and living in the present helps. But I also notice patterns - and of something happens over and over again - I make a note of that.

Cat makes a good point about questions. My H responds to direct questions as if he is being attacked. Then he digs his heels in and gives an evasive response or asks me a question in return. If I keep pushing for an answer- it becomes a contest. He's not going to lose ( answer the question is losing).

But to me- a question is just that. I don't have any other motive. I just want to know something. He also has a choice to say- I don't want to answer that. I prefer direct communication. Evasive feels icky.

I think it helps to keep in mind the difference between feelings and fact. They can be different.

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Jessica84
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« Reply #17 on: December 17, 2016, 12:13:57 AM »

I really don't know what to do anymore. He called tonight - pleasant chat. We made plans for tomorrow night. Trip is planned for end of the month. All good. Enter BPD... .

He has been telling people that he wants to break up. A mutual friend shared this with me in confidence. He is friends with both of us and concerned, for him especially. Told me some of our colleagues are talking about him, how strange he's been acting.

I don't get how he is experiencing our relationship. I wouldn't think we were at this stage. I know his state of mind is bad right now - real bad.

Now I am worried how this weekend will go. If I make up some excuse not to go tomorrow, that would give him more time to settle down. But more likely, that could be the excuse he needs to say we don't spend time together anymore - so we should break up. If I go, he could try to engage in battle to justify his current feelings. And even if I don't react to the bait traps, he could push me to leave (force my boundary), then follow it with a breakup text. I'm screwed either way. And so is he. A breakup will not cure him, and it will hurt me. And it likely won't last. Never has. So I wish we could skip this part. He needs help, professional help.
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« Reply #18 on: December 17, 2016, 02:41:12 AM »

If he needs professional help- I know that you know you can't help him in that way.

One idea when someone needs professional help is to let them "hit bottom". Loved ones tend to prevent this from happening by being emotional caregivers, providing financial support. Although they want to be loving and caring in this way- and don't want the person they love to suffer-that can take away the motivation to seek out help.

How does he "break up?". I would doubt it would be a direct, calm, break up discussion. Some people look for a "reason". - they can do something- and then the other person reacts- and then they have an opportunity to blame them for the break up. This keeps them from feeling like the bad guy. I'm sure you have been good to him- and he knows a break up would hurt you. Perhaps he is baiting you into a fight in these last weeks.

It is hard to know what he is thinking. He may say something to someone, but does he mean it? The only way you can know for sure is if he does break up with you.

What is concerning is his behavior- and that it is noticeable to others. Pw BPD tend to behave worse with the people they are closest to, and friends are noticing.

Although you don't want to break up- and you wish to decide what is the best way to possibly prevent this- you know that he has the choice to do this or not. He may try to blame you-or make you a reason- but you know that this choice is really about him, not you, and you can't control his choices. Your dilemma- to not go out this weekend or to go and possibly be placed in a position to enforce boundaries- is based on predicting, and even possibly controlling his behavior. But this is not something you can control. You only have two choices here- to not go, or to go and make decisions about his behavior- if and when it happens.

I've attended ACA ( includes children of dysfunctional parents) and there is a "laundry list". One of the items on the list that stood out to me was this one " We became reactors rather than actors". It made me think of how often I make decisions based on someone else's possible choices, their moods, their feelings. I didn't think of myself as a controlling type of person. I felt more like a doormat- accommodating other people. But the predicting, soothing, behavior is controlling in a way- because it is trying to control their feelings- and their feelings about me. It also made me feel as if I didn't have direction when my actions were based on their feelings and not mine.

Not being reactive is a choice. I know it isn't easy- but think about if you want to go out with him or not this weekend. Base your decision on you. It's up to him to decide if he needs space or not. It's up to him to decide how he wants to behave with you. All you can do is stick to your boundary. If he acts out, then you need to distance yourself. I know the idea that he may break up with you is scary- but if he does, then deal with that if it happens. If this is what he wants to do- then there isn't a whole lot you can do to control that.
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« Reply #19 on: December 17, 2016, 05:00:57 AM »

 Thought Love that. I need to step out of the way to let him 'hit bottom'. This is his darkness, not mine.

I have tried to be supportive, but its taken a toll. I haven't eaten or slept well in days. Seeing him will not be good for me. Tomorrow night is a setup - I decided not to subject myself to it. He has been lashing out at me for weeks, worse each day. I will not give him the opportunity to say more hurtful things to me. Things he will forget, but that will stick with me.

I don't care how he reacts or if he chooses to break up. If he gets ugly, I'll just hang up or block him so he can't call and I don't have to read his horrible texts. If he snaps out of whatever he's going thru, I'll be there for him. But not right now. I can't.
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« Reply #20 on: December 17, 2016, 05:09:30 AM »

Jessica- take care of yourself 

How about a day just for you? Take yourself out to dinner. See a movie you want to see. Browse a bookstore. Buy yourself flowers.

You don't have to read his texts, or listen to him say mean things to you. But do more than protect yourself- be really nice to you Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #21 on: December 17, 2016, 05:15:53 AM »

I may feel sad later, or angry at him or myself, wish I had more strength, possibly feel guilty, or like I blew it. But right now, this is the only thing that makes sense to me. I've been ignoring myself in all of this.

Thank you 
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Jessica84
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
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« Reply #22 on: December 17, 2016, 06:00:54 PM »

UPDATE-- he texted asking me to come over. I didn't respond. Then he called. I didn't answer. Then another text asking if I'm coming - I finally replied "No." Asked why not - "I don't want to." Asked what he did wrong - ":)on't know who you are anymore". Maybe not the best words, but that's the truth! Then 14 new texts apologizing, explaining, angry, breaking up, more apologies, wishing me well, then angry I'm not wishing him well, demanding to know what he's done, then circling back. All without me responding. I can't even bring myself to respond or validate or anything. This is psychotic. He is talking to himself.
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Grey Kitty
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« Reply #23 on: December 17, 2016, 11:16:48 PM »

  Sucks being "right" at a time like this.

Take good care of yourself. Do you have a trusted friend or family member you can spend time with tomorrow?
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Jessica84
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« Reply #24 on: December 18, 2016, 03:00:55 AM »

Thanks, I'm ok. Very, very grateful I don't have BPD! I feel like I'm in a cartoon - I stepped out of the way and a giant piano fell on his head. Went to bed early and woke up to at least 20 new texts. Ongoing, all night. Heartbreaking stuff, the flood gates have opened. Lots of self-loathing and overly apologizing. I started validating. I can't tell if we are broken up or not. I'm going to assume we are, for now. He is at war with himself. Hitting bottom is not pretty. But he's motivated to find a solution for himself now - anger and depression issues. Maybe that's the plus in all of this.
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Notwendy
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« Reply #25 on: December 18, 2016, 07:54:54 AM »

Jessica- you are going to feel a lot of feelings. Your own fears, your positive and negative feelings about the relationship.

What is going on is that - when you start to take care of yourself in a relationship- you change the dynamics a bit. This is uncomfortable- and unfamiliar. It is scary.

You know what the comfortable pattern is- doing the same sort of "dance" between you that somehow fit you in ways. Yet, if this were entirely comfortable for you, you would keep on doing that. But somehow, you wanted things to be different, and for that to happen- something between you had to change.

When he got angry at you and said a bunch of mean things- you chose to take care of yourself. When we take away the drama- we also take away a part of a relationship addiction. He relied on you to sooth himself. You relied on soothing him. Now you are both in unknown emotional territory. It is scary.

It is scary to let someone hit bottom and resist the urge to rescue him. Of course, if you thought he was in serious danger, then you would call 911.

As to the future of the relationship- are you broken up or not- it is probably not clear. He may be back and forth with this. You may not know what you want yourself. With the constant texting, you two are still emotionally engaged with each other at this time. I think this is probably a "stay in the present" moment.
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cbm419
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« Reply #26 on: December 18, 2016, 11:25:27 PM »


Me: I'm sorry--

Him: Stop saying I'm sorry!

Me: I wasn't apologizing. Saying sorry that your depression is this bad. I know it must be hard, and I'm not trying to fight with you. I'm trying to be supportive. I thought this trip might give you something to look forward to?


oh dear god.  that small portion of your post really brought back memories.  i was always telling BPDex i was sorry for his issues or depression or whatever it was that day... .

and he would constantly say "stop saying Im sorry! It doesnt fix anything"

its like... .do these people not understand its customary for a loved one to offer an "i'm Sorry" for any misfortune they are experiencing?

the worst part is- sometimes my "I'm Sorry" would suddenly be internalized as me accepting or claiming blame for xyz issue. that was the capitol of my relationship nightmare.  If i simply said "I'm sorry you feel that way" I was admitting it was my fault he did feel that way, which was a pathology to a brand new set of fighting and drama.

ugh. these people are sick.
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Jessica84
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« Reply #27 on: December 19, 2016, 12:29:31 PM »

I'm glad it's not just me. Never in my life I have been yelled at before for offering sympathy! There's the empathy sorry and the apology sorry. Most nons can tell which way its intended, but maybe some pwBPD can't? I keep looking for new ways to show empathy without a 'sorry' -- oh no, how sad/awful, that's too bad, that sucks, aw man... .

I counted 23 sorry's from him this weekend. Apology overkill. His texts were sad/vulnerable, not the mean ones I was expecting. Didn't make excuses, but explained himself (the best he could) and kept apologizing. He had a miserable weekend. This is exactly what I was hoping to avoid by not going over there in the first place! I guess it was unavoidable.

He wants to try to reconcile tonight. I hope he gets off this apology train - Too much shame and self-loathing. Not good. I wasn't trying to punish him and hate to see him hurting - but I had to protect me from the monster he was becoming. Even if that meant losing him for good. Hope that beast goes back in hiding now. Thanks for all the clarity here. 
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wren1

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« Reply #28 on: December 19, 2016, 12:54:57 PM »

go on the trip with someone else you could use the time off ,he will still be there when you get back( ranting and raving) if he doesnt like it dont talk to him till hes nice they will comply to get your time and attention ,stick to your guns dont be sucked into the conflict! or dont go but dont talk to him till he acts better these episodes do blow over with time, its not about you so you can not fix it!
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Grey Kitty
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« Reply #29 on: December 19, 2016, 01:53:34 PM »

and he would constantly say "stop saying Im sorry! It doesnt fix anything"

its like... .do these people not understand its customary for a loved one to offer an "i'm Sorry" for any misfortune they are experiencing?

There is a lesson in validation buried in this, if you can look for it.

"I'm sorry" is an apology. If you do something to hurt somebody it is appropriate. Give one, and a sincere one, and make sure you don't hurt them again.

Even if you didn't intend to hurt this person you maybe somehow responsible. Maybe you stepped on their foot while walking blindfolded? An apology still fits that situation.

But if you were not at all responsible, an apology doesn't fit. (A third party stepped on their foot blindfolded?)

"I care" is better and more validating than "I'm sorry". You can still have empathy for their pain or misfortune, without taking any responsibility.

I kinda feel like I'm splitting hairs here. It is pretty common to express sympathy or empathy with an "I'm sorry". Pay attention to what you mean more than the exact words.

It is also pretty common (in an abusive relationship) to try to give in and capitulate with an apology when you actually know you didn't do anything wrong, and that the accusation is untrue, and you are only trying to get the abuse to stop by saying "I'm sorry" rather than actually regretting anything you've done.

Try to be more validating in these situations--with anybody experiencing misfortune, not just a pwBPD. Letting them know that you care is incredibly validating and will build the relationship.
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